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It blows my mind that players don't know how to LoS in ESO
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Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »As title says... LoSing is an age-old and basic MMO strat for clumping mobs in PvE, and for some reason ESO players don't do it without constant direction in party chat. Why is this?
They just don't care to learn, &/or play how they want...in group content. The worst is players that want to loot everything in a dungeon and get mad when you don't wait for them.1 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It blows my mind that players don't know how to explain what a "LoSing" is.
Manipulating Light Of Sight between you and enemy mobs, so that all of them (including ranged ones) will come running closer to you as well as grouping together so you can AoE them.
For ex: run into a room & aggro all the mobs. Run out of the room and duck around a hallway corner. Since they no longer have LoS to you, they run out of the room and around the corner, at which point your party nukes them.
The OP is extending that to aggroing multiple groups of mobs, so that all of them group up in one place.Edited by Kiralyn2000 on May 9, 2022 8:37PM2 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭Why even use the term LoS in PVE? I mean when I tank I would simply state, pulling mobs ontop of me so you can burn the group down quickly. No real reason to even state AoE or LoS. Not all builds will use AoE some are more designed for single target.2
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Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »Why even use the term LoS in PVE? I mean when I tank I would simply state, pulling mobs ontop of me so you can burn the group down quickly. No real reason to even state AoE or LoS. Not all builds will use AoE some are more designed for single target.
It's more efficient than waiting for you to pull every range enemy one at a time.2 -
LordRukia✭✭✭✭I learned to LoS in Guild Wars 1 where this was basically a requirement or you'll get stomped in the open field with mobs spread out. I've tried to do it in games since, but gamers these days are far too impatient and will not wait for it. It does make aoeing groups much easier, faster, and cleaner, but yeah good luck with that..2
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I tanked for a "family and friends" guild in both WoW and RIFT (until my nephew graduated from college and had time to play again - and he was a FAR FAR better tank than I was, because my ping back then was even WORSE than it is now).
We didn't call it anything special - I'd just say "pulling", and me and whichever pet (hunter main - my GODDESSES I miss my hunters) would do what needed to be done, with the rest of the raid just ready to kill/buff/heal/off tank....
Simplistic? Yeah. But it worked fine. Still, I wouldn't go back to that. Burn out is a very very real issue.... and I'm seriously not ever going there again. Daughter keeps trying to get me back into WoW, and gets kind of offended when I refuse to consider it.
I left WoW in 2013, and RIFT in 2016. Never been back, never going back. The sheer amount of relief when nephew took over as tank - I still remember being almost in tears in thankfulness.0 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »I'm thinking in terms of clearing RNDs mostly. E.g. I'll say something like 'Big pulls inc. Don't fight until you've caught up to me and stacked on top of me, so we can use LoS to AoE everything down quickly.' After each door I'll pull everything up til the next door, and stand behind something to clump the pull. But even then, most players don't understand how LoS works and fail to stack.
... because DPS like to run ahead. Most of the fun things like this are ruined by them.
This is made worst that heavy amour makes you slower and there's little consequences of DPS pulling the adds or even boss before you do.
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wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Why are you losing in normal dungeons?
It's easy mode you shouldn't be losing.1 -
Mythgard1967✭✭✭✭✭Here is the thing.....a tank takes off running...I follow...I can't read minds. I generally stop when the tank stops. Unless the healer goes in another direction and is also "pulling"....then I just groan and try to figure out which one has the highest chance of success. Some mob stack, some just sprint forward til they get to the boss and plan on losing agro....some grab such a huge train and run through small doorways hang up mobs in the doorway so the rest of the group can't get through and then they rage quit cause they created a huge train that bottlenecked that ya can't get through and people die....some methodically grab a group together and stand and fight them....some bounce around like a 4 year old on pixie sticks. Some actually pull (so old school).
Heck....most of the time...I don't get a tank who has a strategy in a normal random. I get a fake tank who doesnt even have a taunt slotted. Its fine; we survive....but don't expect in a random that any of us ASSUME you have a plan and will just fall inline with what you are doing.....and also?? don't assume we have been exposed to a real tank....ever. Sad but true.
ESO also has a large number of folks who have never played an MMO. Which by the way, I like! OMG...I make ESO sound like a gateway drug.3 -
FeedbackOnly✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mythgard1967 wrote: »Here is the thing.....a tank takes off running...I follow...I can't read minds. I generally stop when the tank stops. Unless the healer goes in another direction and is also "pulling"....then I just groan and try to figure out which one has the highest chance of success. Some mob stack, some just sprint forward til they get to the boss and plan on losing agro....some grab such a huge train and run through small doorways hang up mobs in the doorway so the rest of the group can't get through and then they rage quit cause they created a huge train that bottlenecked that ya can't get through and people die....some methodically grab a group together and stand and fight them....some bounce around like a 4 year old on pixie sticks. Some actually pull (so old school).
Heck....most of the time...I don't get a tank who has a strategy in a normal random. I get a fake tank who doesnt even have a taunt slotted. Its fine; we survive....but don't expect in a random that any of us ASSUME you have a plan and will just fall inline with what you are doing.....and also?? don't assume we have been exposed to a real tank....ever. Sad but true.
ESO also has a large number of folks who have never played an MMO. Which by the way, I like! OMG...I make ESO sound like a gateway drug.
For 5.99 you can join eso anonymous. You aren't alone.3 -
WynnGwynn✭✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »I'm thinking in terms of clearing RNDs mostly. E.g. I'll say something like 'Big pulls inc. Don't fight until you've caught up to me and stacked on top of me, so we can use LoS to AoE everything down quickly.' After each door I'll pull everything up til the next door, and stand behind something to clump the pull. But even then, most players don't understand how LoS works and fail to stack.
Just use vateshran shield, it clumps everything in the middle and then chain the outliers. I've not had an issue clumping most dungeons using that strategy. Anything else (like bosses you want to group together) you can taunt and LOS yourself. I rarely have to stop and tell people to LOS stuff to get things to stack properly when I can just force things to stack properly myself as tank.1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »I'm thinking in terms of clearing RNDs mostly. E.g. I'll say something like 'Big pulls inc. Don't fight until you've caught up to me and stacked on top of me, so we can use LoS to AoE everything down quickly.' After each door I'll pull everything up til the next door, and stand behind something to clump the pull. But even then, most players don't understand how LoS works and fail to stack.
I'm pretty good with grammar, [American] English is my native language and I've played ESO since shortly after PC drop. But I don't play PvP much and a don't really play randoms much with folks I don't know.
I say that to give some context for my looking at your sentence (the part bolded by me above) and ask what the heck do you actually mean by that?
I have no idea what you mean by "how LoS works" and I am not really following your directions here.
Are you going to be taunting or pulling?
Are you going to be using any sort of lockdown?
when should the AoE's "start"?
Then next bit - "After each door I'll pull everything up til the next door, and stand behind something to clump the pull"
Can you parse this out so I could picture what it means?
And if what you are meaning is that you run ahead, taunting like a crazy person and expect that the mobs miraculously won't attack any of the confused DPS following - well that doesn't always work, especially if the poor DPS has no idea what the plan is.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis4 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭loaganb16_ESO wrote: »I have done LoS pulls many times. Many times people even died. Never did any of them show any sign of understanding this strategy and instead ran straight into the next group again..
Ahem. Did you actually attempt communication?
Helps.
And asking "does this make sense" and then listening to any answers is a way of confirming understanding before you run off.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis3 -
w002exp✭✭✭To he fair I don't think LOS works well on this game. Ranged attacks tend to go through walls, terrain acts wonky and inconsistent and breaking LOS, and enemies "get lost" chasing you through cavernous hallways.
I can break LOS, have a nice clump, but inevitably I still have to go back and mop up a few who refused to get with the program and the time advantage just doesn't seem all that there.4 -
Molydeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭What you are describing is not line of sighting, it's mob stacking. Line of sighting is hiding behind objects to break aggro or block incoming ranged attacks from an attacker.
No. In literally every MMO leading up to ESO, OP's definition of "LoS" is correct. LoSing as a tank creates stacked mobs.0 -
SerafinaWaterstar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lordy been playing this for 7 years & never heard this used in this context!
Never had a tank even suggest doing it. Mobs either just die fast (especially on normal) or tank stacks them & dds burn them. No complicated hokey-kokey mechs.
And would be dubious that it works as the OP would wish - this *is* ESO & you can never be sure its running properly! 😁2 -
SedoUmbra✭✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »As title says... LoSing is an age-old and basic MMO strat for clumping mobs in PvE, and for some reason ESO players don't do it without constant direction in party chat. Why is this?
Maybe they don't have decades of experience of other MMOs? Maybe ESO is their first and they hopped over from single player RPGs. Maybe it's got something to do with there being no in-game guidance or tutorial for this concept? It's also an irrelevant strategy in Overland content, which is where new players will spend the overwhelming majority of their time learning the basics of the game.3 -
Belegnole✭✭✭✭✭lol, I'm getting back into tanking after years of being a dps. Honestly I find the idea of a organized PUG being somewhat laughable. Every time I'm in one we have Mr. Runs ahead and someone who keeps lagging behind. Often we get that person who has a "real life" interruption. At which point we become a 3 man group usually without a healer.
The idea that I'm going run around and grab multiple mobs and clump them up for this rable is just, nah.
First off, Mr. Runs ahead has probably dragged everything to the next boss, if they follow. Leaving the rest of us to deal with the resulting mess. My favorite is when we catch up and he's lying on the floor blaming the healer for his death.
So, my technique has become just to burn each group down as we come to them. I'll group them up, but often their dead so quick that it doesn't matter.4 -
gadget2775✭✭The game teaches them LoS isn't important by letting mob ranged attacks hit through solid object.
I.E. Skyshard hunting/Resource gathering. random ranged mob agros. I regularly forget and place a building, boulder, etc between myself and the mob because it isn't worth stopping to kill. Mob continues to shoot me through said object forcing me to either return to the mob and kill it, or run until it tethers.
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TumlinTheJolly✭✭✭✭lol, I'm getting back into tanking after years of being a dps. Honestly I find the idea of a organized PUG being somewhat laughable. Every time I'm in one we have Mr. Runs ahead and someone who keeps lagging behind. Often we get that person who has a "real life" interruption. At which point we become a 3 man group usually without a healer.
The idea that I'm going run around and grab multiple mobs and clump them up for this rable is just, nah.
First off, Mr. Runs ahead has probably dragged everything to the next boss, if they follow. Leaving the rest of us to deal with the resulting mess. My favorite is when we catch up and he's lying on the floor blaming the healer for his death.
So, my technique has become just to burn each group down as we come to them. I'll group them up, but often their dead so quick that it doesn't matter.
FYI much of this thread has been spent discussing how to most effectively tank AS 'Mr. Runs ahead', so that your DD version of 'Mr. Runs ahead' doesn't get frustrated by how long you're taking to pull everything, and takes it upon himself to replace you as the tank for the dungeon.Edited by TumlinTheJolly on May 11, 2022 1:49PM0 -
DagenHawk✭✭✭✭✭TumlinTheJolly wrote: »As title says... LoSing is an age-old and basic MMO strat for clumping mobs in PvE, and for some reason ESO players don't do it without constant direction in party chat. Why is this?
*This reply may ramble apologies for that....
Well if someone asked me I would say that I personally think that the last few vestiges of MMO mechanics are dying because few people just don't want to do them anymore.
ESO isn't a hyper competitive MMO it is a" Virtual RPG" or "Online RPG" depending on which developer at what time of day you ask...it's hasn't really been a MMO since One Tamriel.
If you understand anything about the mechanics you can take four players and rule the world...quite a few of the mid tier players (Keep in mind I come from Classic EQ raiding )can solo Trials.
The RPG element is the main focus in this game...and that is only going to become more true I think.
If I were to predict; I would say that in the next few years things like esoteric combat mechanics, like weaving, strict guild requirements on selling/buying and these lord of the flies hyper competitive situations are going to become a thing of the past.
The thing is I'm pretty sure this has been the plan all along since One Tamriel and they are doing it the same way you cook a lobster....turn the heat up slowly...okay bad metaphor, but you get my drift.
It's not a bad thing...look around most MMO's are struggling with income and population despite (depending on where you live) rolling stay at home shut downs...ESO is making Scrooge McDuck amounts of money, and it's not because a handful of whales.
So the good news I guess is soon your problem will solve itself because soon those mechanics just won't exists.
This is one of those don't shoot the messenger things...I hope we can still remain friends.
Edited by DagenHawk on May 11, 2022 4:47PM2 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭I miss playing DCUO and having a taunt that was also a pull that not only pulled a single mob but groups of them at once on top of me. This game really doesn't have many pull type of skills and it is a shame as I would like to see a pull that pulls 3+ targets at once. I would even make the pull only work in PVE so that it can't be used in PVP.0
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DagenHawk✭✭✭✭✭MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »I miss playing DCUO and having a taunt that was also a pull that not only pulled a single mob but groups of them at once on top of me. This game really doesn't have many pull type of skills and it is a shame as I would like to see a pull that pulls 3+ targets at once. I would even make the pull only work in PVE so that it can't be used in PVP.
That game is pretty much dead as far as population goes...but it's still there...unless it closed in the past month or so...0 -
Mythgard1967✭✭✭✭✭Ahhhhh....now I am remembering mobs in packs so strong that getting multiple would slaughter your group and if you dont have CC, you relied on feigning death to split mobs.....now that was some slow slow gameplay.....
I will confess that sometimes...as a DPS.....I relish running on the tail of my ESO tank to indulge in the joy that can only be delivered with PBAE fun times.0
