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Proposed Solution for PvE Sorcerer DPS

KingoftheTewks
KingoftheTewks
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For many patches sorcerer has been an undesirable class for DPS in most trials (the exception being vAS). Prior to U33 it was meta to included on sorcerer DPS as a token class for their minor spell crit group passive. Even though they were typically the orb slayer in vCR, other classes can do it better. Now they groups have dropped templar healers and made sorcerer healer meta, sorcerer DPS are no longer desired. U33 essentially further exposed the underlying class issues. There's no reason to use a sorcerer in any type of cleave fight: Oax, Bahsei, cloudest, etc..

Their primary weakness in endgame raiding is cleave, which is the weakest in the game. For example, in Oaxiltso hardmode in Rockgrove, they can only doing roughly 3/4 of the damage a DK can do. While DK has an overflowing AOE toolkit (talons, FoO, eruption, breath, deep breath), sorcerer brings almost nothing to the table. Liquid lightning is a mid-tier AOE skill. Curse and volatile familiar active cast have too small of a radius.

There's an easy solution to the problem, that kills two birds with one stone. Twilight tormentor, the preferred DPS morph, has an active cast ability that NO ONE USES because it is too weak (it's also expensive, but even if it was cheap, it's not worth casting). I propose the active cast be reworked to give the tormentor AOE chain lightning for 15 seconds! The lightning would reach 10 meters to match the diameter of skills like talons.

If the damage from the tormentor rework is not enough, there is another useless skill to buff: daedric minefield. Instead of summoning 5 mines around you, most of which will sit on the ground and not explode, they should float around the character in a rotating circle. This would allow all of them to detonate. This would make daedric minefield similar to deep breath: a hard hitting class AOE skill that is semi-spammable and expensive.
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    Sadly, I've watched my Magsorc's damage slipping and being eclipsed by the damage of my other mages. What would excite me again regarding Magsorc would be a combination of two things:

    1. Single bar pets. The pet does not disappear when you bar swap but to use its special ability, you have to be on that pet's bar. My Magsorc has gradually migrated to no pets since double barring them is too high a price for what they do.

    2. Make Crystal Frags instacast all the time. This could be a potent spamable that is efficient on bar space.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • BretonMage
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    2. Make Crystal Frags instacast all the time. This could be a potent spamable that is efficient on bar space.

    Yes, that would help a lot. I've given up on it as I just can't get it to work with my rotation.
  • KingoftheTewks
    KingoftheTewks
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    Changing frags to instant cast doesn't make sense because the other morph of crystal frags is already a spammable. The random proc condition is unique to sorc, and it's important that classes retain unique elements. The current design of crystal frags is good because it can be used only on proc, or it can be hard cast and weaved as a spammable in order to gain another bar space.
  • BXR_Lonestar
    BXR_Lonestar
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    Sadly, I've watched my Magsorc's damage slipping and being eclipsed by the damage of my other mages. What would excite me again regarding Magsorc would be a combination of two things:

    1. Single bar pets. The pet does not disappear when you bar swap but to use its special ability, you have to be on that pet's bar. My Magsorc has gradually migrated to no pets since double barring them is too high a price for what they do.

    2. Make Crystal Frags instacast all the time. This could be a potent spamable that is efficient on bar space.

    These would help, but IMO, being a petsorc lost its uniqueness the moment they made pet damage scale like any other spell. That instantly nerfed max stats builds that had killer DPS, sustain, and great heals for group AND solo play. Back then, no other class was building for that much max stats, and it made the class feel unique, and giving up 2 extra slots on the front bar felt worth it.

    I'm still getting close to 50k dps (47k right now) with a 2 pet sorc on a heavy attack static rotation without an ideal setup, but it just doesn't feel as good as it used to when I was running around with Crafty Alfiqi + Necropotence + Maw.
  • Kahnak
    Kahnak
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    Sadly, I've watched my Magsorc's damage slipping and being eclipsed by the damage of my other mages. What would excite me again regarding Magsorc would be a combination of two things:

    1. Single bar pets. The pet does not disappear when you bar swap but to use its special ability, you have to be on that pet's bar. My Magsorc has gradually migrated to no pets since double barring them is too high a price for what they do.

    2. Make Crystal Frags instacast all the time. This could be a potent spamable that is efficient on bar space.

    These would help, but IMO, being a petsorc lost its uniqueness the moment they made pet damage scale like any other spell. That instantly nerfed max stats builds that had killer DPS, sustain, and great heals for group AND solo play. Back then, no other class was building for that much max stats, and it made the class feel unique, and giving up 2 extra slots on the front bar felt worth it.

    I'm still getting close to 50k dps (47k right now) with a 2 pet sorc on a heavy attack static rotation without an ideal setup, but it just doesn't feel as good as it used to when I was running around with Crafty Alfiqi + Necropotence + Maw.

    Oh, Necropotence. Those were the good ol' days.
    Tombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"
  • Molydeus
    Molydeus
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    Make slotting
    Kahnak wrote: »
    Sadly, I've watched my Magsorc's damage slipping and being eclipsed by the damage of my other mages. What would excite me again regarding Magsorc would be a combination of two things:

    1. Single bar pets. The pet does not disappear when you bar swap but to use its special ability, you have to be on that pet's bar. My Magsorc has gradually migrated to no pets since double barring them is too high a price for what they do.

    2. Make Crystal Frags instacast all the time. This could be a potent spamable that is efficient on bar space.

    These would help, but IMO, being a petsorc lost its uniqueness the moment they made pet damage scale like any other spell. That instantly nerfed max stats builds that had killer DPS, sustain, and great heals for group AND solo play. Back then, no other class was building for that much max stats, and it made the class feel unique, and giving up 2 extra slots on the front bar felt worth it.

    I'm still getting close to 50k dps (47k right now) with a 2 pet sorc on a heavy attack static rotation without an ideal setup, but it just doesn't feel as good as it used to when I was running around with Crafty Alfiqi + Necropotence + Maw.

    Oh, Necropotence. Those were the good ol' days.

    I still run it, I can't change.
  • Dracane
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    Very interesting. I was not aware Sorcerer healers are so wanted now and on the flip side, DPS Sorcerer not wanted at all.
    In my mind, Daedric Minefield was always supposed to be exactly as you described with the rotating mines. Though that would quickly get abused for single target as well and Zenimax does not want that.

    Sadly I feel, Sorcerer gets soloely balanced around pvp (has been thus since many years) and buffs are held back for the sake of pvp. Although it seems that Sorcerer is not exactly meta anymore, so a few unintrusive pve buffs like this should largely ignore pvp.

    I have played Sorcerer as a pve tank/healer since years because the DPS department feels too underwhelming. Like you said, the uniqueness is not quite there anymore.
    Edited by Dracane on April 29, 2022 2:43AM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.
  • Furcas00
    Furcas00
    Soul Shriven
    The issue I keep running into with sorcerer is that the pet skills have to be double barred. That puts them at a severe disadvantage right out of the gate. A *very* severe one. This means the pets have to be absolutely amazing (they mostly aren't) vs other skills as the opportunity cost for using one is very high.

    On the tank side, dark deal is a cast time ability that drops block. It really isn't strong enough to warrant having a cast time attached to it and especially not when considering you can't block while doing it vs what other tanks like DKs or Templars can do whilst blocking for stamina regens. Tank club put up a video today talking about some of the stamina regen of tanks.

    Crystal weapons is another problem. The duration is incredibly short making it quite a chore to maintain. It's the one really unique thing they've got in their toolkits but you sacrifice crystal frags for it (painful) and it's stamina only. I'd probably move it's effect to a passive instead that triggers off that skill line and then give it some other benefit or just make it a copy paste of frags that uses stam.
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