Having same BIS sets for all classes. Are you enjoying it?

DDiggler · May 2022

I am sure you are aware that a handful of sets are BIS for all of the classes in game(Bahsei, Kinras, Relequen etc). When you look at builds and guides online every single magicka build recommends bahsei kinras and kilt set up. This reduces the diversity of classes and playing different classes less enjoyable in my opinion.

If sets like Elf Bane, Deadly Strike were buffed slightly and made BIS for their respective synergetic classes, playing with different characters for DPS would be more enjoyable in my opinion. Yes i am talking about endgame(vet trials, hm dungeons etc), we all know having BIS isn't that important otherwise.

Snamyap · May 2022

I don't do endgame in ESO but the moment you make sets tailored towards classes BiS for those classes you will unleash and endless stream of complaints about balance between those setups.

Vaoh · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

Well it’s not just sets. There’s only two factors to consider in PvE:
- Is the fight Range or Melee?
- How much Pen or Crit Dmg do I need?

But enemy element-specific resistances? Viability of “non-Flame” Damage? Ability interactions with water surfaces or the environment? Multiple distant sub-playstyles per class? We have none of this. In fact the classes are so similar that even our weapon choices are the same..... all it takes to push us from Flame Staff to DW frontbar is a tiny bit of stats.

Instead of making each class great at specific things, they all perform exactly the same everywhere. This makes your raw DPS output the only thing that matters. Set choice just reflects that.

mocap · May 2022

BIS gear is mostly for chapter trifecta trials. Other than that, you can use Sorrow, Medusa, EBane, whatever.. and with perfect rotation you can ezpz outdps "that guy with meta gear" in vet dungeon.

FeedbackOnly · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

I would like something different than roaring opportunitist on healers please.

Ratzkifal · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

There should be universal sets as a baseline for dps, things like your Mother's Sorrow etc.
And then there should be extra options that are more or less specifically tailored to one class, allowing them to do something that other classes can't through the use of these sets.

Elfbane is a great example of this. It changes even the basic weapon spells but because it only really synergizes with magDK, it completely changes how magDKs are played compared to other magicka specs, thus making it a unique experience and even other magDKs that aren't running Elfbane. The only downside is that you are forced to run 2 pieces of heavy armor and in PvE that's a somewhat bitter pill to swallow. I never liked playing magDK until I started using this set.

Kiralyn2000 · May 2022

Not sure I've ever equipped anything considered "BiS". Soooooo... don't care?

(previous MMOs I've played had stuff like class-specific tiered-progression raid sets for each class, so endgame players were all wearing the same basic thing anyway. ESO has a lot more variety than that, even with things as they are now. /meh)

Kisakee · May 2022

The difference between "Best in Slot" and "Second best Option" is like 1-3k DPS. A missed Light attack, a skill you can't cast as you need to dodge or die or simply looking in the wrong direction for some seconds are having the same effect.

There's no need to puff things up, it's all just in your head. If you feel the urge to always have the longest sword that's totally on you.

GOAT4EVAR · May 2022

Agree with other comments so far, also think of it this way. No matter what set the devs introduce there is always going to be a certain setup that will be bis no matter what since its all numbers and math in the end.

AinSoph · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

Even as a mDK main, It is so aesthetically boring to use a fire staff for every single mag build but I don't also follow the new meta of DW Daggers/Greatsword bc I just like magic.

Darkstorne · May 2022

"BIS" is only really derived from number crunching. There can be no such thing as multiple BIS because... one set will always come out on top, be declared BIS by big streamers and theory-crafters, and lead to this continued cycle of inexperienced players thinking those are the only sets they should be aiming to acquire.

You do raise valid points about the downside of ESO classes playing so similarly compounding this issue. But even if they did all play and feel unique the best case scenario here would be a different "BIS" for each class. I think @Vaoh makes a good point calling for more variation in enemy strengths/weaknesses and environmental interaction. And generally improving the variety of boss mechanics to encourage varied playstyles could be great. No need to redesign all the classes that way. We'd just have to think a bit more carefully about whether our gear is really ideal for the type of enemies we're up against, or the environment we're fighting in.

Ultimately, BIS and meta can (and probably should) be entirely ignored by 99.9% of players. The moment you realize that literally every set in the game is viable for vet DLC dungeon content and below, provided you build synergistically around it, your enjoyment of the game will skyrocket provided you love that freedom to craft unique playstyles. I adore my Sorc 2h greatsword LA/HA build with Thunder Caller and Kargaeda. Streak initiation followed by a BIG BADA BOOM heavy attack, and everything melting in lightning storms. Meta? No. Fun? Hell yes, and I'm still soloing public dungeon group events.

Ratzkifal · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

Darkstorne wrote: »

"BIS" is only really derived from number crunching. There can be no such thing as multiple BIS because... one set will always come out on top, be declared BIS by big streamers and theory-crafters, and lead to this continued cycle of inexperienced players thinking those are the only sets they should be aiming to acquire.

You do raise valid points about the downside of ESO classes playing so similarly compounding this issue. But even if they did all play and feel unique the best case scenario here would be a different "BIS" for each class. I think @Vaoh makes a good point calling for more variation in enemy strengths/weaknesses and environmental interaction. And generally improving the variety of boss mechanics to encourage varied playstyles could be great. No need to redesign all the classes that way. We'd just have to think a bit more carefully about whether our gear is really ideal for the type of enemies we're up against, or the environment we're fighting in.

Ultimately, BIS and meta can (and probably should) be entirely ignored by 99.9% of players. The moment you realize that literally every set in the game is viable for vet DLC dungeon content and below, provided you build synergistically around it, your enjoyment of the game will skyrocket provided you love that freedom to craft unique playstyles. I adore my Sorc 2h greatsword LA/HA build with Thunder Caller and Kargaeda. Streak initiation followed by a BIG BADA BOOM heavy attack, and everything melting in lightning storms. Meta? No. Fun? Hell yes, and I'm still soloing public dungeon group events.

Actually there can be multiple BiS and there already have been. If sets perform better or worse in specific fights than others due to their unique mechanics then there can be multiple sets considered BiS for different fights. Relequen for example, especially the 20 stack iteration, was only good in fights where you could keep tagging the boss to keep your stacks up. That made Relequen the best set in these fights, but completely useless in others. Templars would wear Deadly and Relequen or Lokkestiiz and Relequen in those fights and Deadly and Lokkestiiz in fights where Relequen was bad. That's 3 sets being BiS at the same time. Naturally this depends on the conditions of the sets in question and how many useful instances for these sets exist compared to how many instances they are useless in. If there is a balance between those, then multiple sets can indeed be considered BiS.

Amottica · May 2022

I like having sets that are BIS for all classes(Makes farming easier)

It’s not a big deal. I could care less if everyone in my group wore the same sets since it’s being effective that matters.

AnnetteW · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

Amottica wrote: »

It’s not a big deal. I could care less if everyone in my group wore the same sets since it’s being effective that matters.

Darkstorne wrote: »

Ultimately, BIS and meta can (and probably should) be entirely ignored by 99.9% of players. The moment you realize that literally every set in the game is viable for vet DLC dungeon content and below, provided you build synergistically around it, your enjoyment of the game will skyrocket provided you love that freedom to craft unique playstyles. I adore my Sorc 2h greatsword LA/HA build with Thunder Caller and Kargaeda. Streak initiation followed by a BIG BADA BOOM heavy attack, and everything melting in lightning storms. Meta? No. Fun? Hell yes, and I'm still soloing public dungeon group events.

Created character, got cp 160 and bought agility rings and let my gm create a gear. Then I runned few runs in vet trials for (perfect) BiS... soo after few runs I had gear I wanted and cp 200. Then I have choice... have another x runs to get gear for another character or recontruct it...but I created another character, got 2 sets (both aren't BiS, Meta of something like that but they melt mobs like nothing)... well and I totally forgot that I have character with BiS,... bc that character isn't funny... it's just "good for dmg"

Most of the time BiS are like: Another mundus stone (yeah rly long time ago... TBS) +10% crit dmg, 8% reduced magicka costs, etc. but who uses casts ice pillar when U deal frost dmg (winterborn),... or spawn spores (velidreth)...

Have U ever created characters like:
magicka warden with just cold skills + winterborn +iceheart
stamdk with just poision abilities +all poision from bow and velidreth
magsorc with overwhelming surge/ dark convergence
etc.
This makes characters unique and funny.

Galiferno · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

The Bahsei, Kinras, Kilt setup is the top parsing setup generally but what I've learned from talking to some crazy DPS players in vet trials is that they have different gear/skill setups even for specific bosses and encounters in trials. Maximizing your dps in specific situations depends on knowing the encounter well and how to gear for it. Also, some players will still get more out of using non-top sets in content. For example, a templar who still hasn't mastered weaving jabs/sweeps is probably going to deal more damage with Deadly than with Kinras in most situations. Still, I do think other sets should be buffed because I don't like the Bahsei magicka minigame on my Breton and I don't like keeping up Kinras stacks.

AnnetteW · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

AnnetteW wrote: »

Have U ever created characters like:
magicka warden with just cold skills + winterborn +iceheart
stamdk with just poision abilities +all poision from bow and velidreth
magsorc with overwhelming surge/ dark convergence
etc.
This makes characters unique and funny.

U'll create "magicka warden with just cold skills + winterborn +iceheart"

and then change log: winterborn nerfed, iceheart nerfed, bahsei boosted

karekiz · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

I mean they do have them, but its more of a 5 piece interaction than anything else.

Member EC on magcros?
Member Deadly on Templars?
DPS running Zens?
WM/MA necros in VAS

All those are technically not "DPS parse" BIS, but they are really nice to have in raids. If you want to run something else opt to be a support role and run Zens DK. I am quite sure nobody will yell at you for doing that, and it isn't like Zens DK's can't do decent DPS.

Hell some DPS run Alkosh in some setups now for medium armor teams.

The bigger issue is class uniqueness. We need less mag/stam specific but more generalized buffs. Sorcs boosting AoE dmg - Nightblades boosting execute dmg - DK's have stone giant - Wardens boosting ST DoT dmg etc. All these buff regardless of team comp vs old system of "I buffed stam crit in an mag team!" which meant nothing back then.

Gaebriel0410 · May 2022

BiS is the most overrated concept in the game, and only serves to lessen people's enjoyment of it because they think they have to wear it and then get tired of being 'forced' to wear the exact same sets.

Besides, what might be BiS for someone else might not be BiS for me.

Amottica · May 2022

I like having sets that are BIS for all classes(Makes farming easier)

AnnetteW wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It’s not a big deal. I could care less if everyone in my group wore the same sets since it’s being effective that matters.

Darkstorne wrote: »

Ultimately, BIS and meta can (and probably should) be entirely ignored by 99.9% of players. The moment you realize that literally every set in the game is viable for vet DLC dungeon content and below, provided you build synergistically around it, your enjoyment of the game will skyrocket provided you love that freedom to craft unique playstyles. I adore my Sorc 2h greatsword LA/HA build with Thunder Caller and Kargaeda. Streak initiation followed by a BIG BADA BOOM heavy attack, and everything melting in lightning storms. Meta? No. Fun? Hell yes, and I'm still soloing public dungeon group events.

Created character, got cp 160 and bought agility rings and let my gm create a gear. Then I runned few runs in vet trials for (perfect) BiS... soo after few runs I had gear I wanted and cp 200. Then I have choice... have another x runs to get gear for another character or recontruct it...but I created another character, got 2 sets (both aren't BiS, Meta of something like that but they melt mobs like nothing)... well and I totally forgot that I have character with BiS,... bc that character isn't funny... it's just "good for dmg"

Most of the time BiS are like: Another mundus stone (yeah rly long time ago... TBS) +10% crit dmg, 8% reduced magicka costs, etc. but who uses casts ice pillar when U deal frost dmg (winterborn),... or spawn spores (velidreth)...

Have U ever created characters like:
magicka warden with just cold skills + winterborn +iceheart
stamdk with just poision abilities +all poision from bow and velidreth
magsorc with overwhelming surge/ dark convergence
etc.
This makes characters unique and funny.

I do not see how my comment is in conflict with what you have shared. It does not matter what one is doing as long as they are geared to get the most out of it.

Even when it comes to "meta" build as this thread is discussing, I could care less if everyone is wearing the same gear as me in a raid since in that situation all I care about is maximizing my damage and staying alive.

I am not thinking about gear and find it so unimportant as long as I can do well and enjoy what I am doing. I think that is essentially what you are getting at since meta only matters if and when it matters. The rest of the time it does not. Enjoying what we are doing comes first.

AnnetteW · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

Amottica wrote: »

I do not see how my comment is in conflict with what you have shared. It does not matter what one is doing as long as they are geared to get the most out of it.

xx

I am not thinking about gear and find it so unimportant as long as I can do well and enjoy what I am doing. I think that is essentially what you are getting at since meta only matters if and when it matters. The rest of the time it does not. Enjoying what we are doing comes first.

well, your HA/LA build is as funny as "magicka warden with just cold skills + winterborn +iceheart",... because it makes our characters unique, soo not in conflict

Iron_Warrior · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

I have simple idea to increase the diversity of the builds

Nearly all sets that give "X amount of weapon and spell damage to your X abilities" should get buffed... by a TON. Then you can make interesting builds and actually do great. Using these sets only buffs a certain set of your abilities so they should make them extremely strong to compensate. But right now they are very lackluster

Sparxlost · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

it really is sad when all of the casual content you see these days is all dark convergence and that one other set with the red effect on the hands and feet.... its as simple as making a already better ability not have a pull cc or adjusting the healing on certain op set...

bmnoble · May 2022

I didn't even have BIS sets before the update, still don't, so nothing has changed for me.

I wear sets that I like, that I feel are interesting for my builds.

If you want to use a set use it, stop giving up the option of testing out sets that look interesting to you, because someone in a guide says these sets are the best.

All this obsession with everything needing to be as good as everything else is what has reduced your perceived build diversity to a few sets, all of which are now standing out to ZOS, who knows if the nerf hammer will strike those BIS sets be a lot easier for them to do that than change all the other sets in the game.

NettleCarrier · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

I only keep one or two "meta" geared characters active per patch, the rest I wear whatever set I want to wear because I'm a person that likes having fun lol.

Cuddlypuff · May 2022

I like having sets that are BIS for all classes(Makes farming easier)

On PC we have addons like XL Gear Banker or Wizard's Wardrobe that allows you to swap the same set across all 18 characters (takes 5 seconds to withdraw and equip, and another 5 seconds to unequip and bank). Now every writ alt can do 100K+ dps and any content with zero extra effort or drawbacks. It's a year old build with Medusa that might be a little dated now, but just been too lazy to update it.

Hotdog_23 · May 2022

Most of my 18 characters either wear False Gods for Magic based toons and VO for stamina based toons. Mainly because I like the speed boost after killing something and don't bother changing when I go into a trial or dungeon because I am not score pushing but playing to have fun. The 2nd second is different on every other character. This is true for Monster sets and Mythic pieces.

Sure their are BIS sets and they will always be. The only time they are really needed is when score pushing or trying for specific achievement in an organized group. If you want each character to wear the same and play the same fine you do you but for me my toons they all are a little different.

ESO is for fun and enjoyment for me. If killing a boss in 30 seconds vs. 35 seconds matters to you then go all out BIS every time.

Stay safe

Hapexamendios · May 2022

I'm not doing anything that would really require it. So I wear whatever I want.

BXR_Lonestar · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

Having one meta to rule them all is pretty lame. IDK if they were doing this because of their engine, but I'd really love for them to look at expanding how damage builds work. Right now, the only way to build a viable character is to stack crit chance and crit damage. I would love to see max stats DPS builds come back into play (i.e., bring back Crafty Alfiqi + Necropotence double pet sorc decimation), and I would love to see them make overpenetrating equate into the enemy taking a massive amount of extra damage, or even make raw power (max damage) builds more consistent so that they can actually compete with crit damage builds.

geonsocal · May 2022

Kisakee wrote: »

The difference between "Best in Slot" and "Second best Option" is like 1-3k DPS. A missed Light attack, a skill you can't cast as you need to dodge or die or simply looking in the wrong direction for some seconds are having the same effect.

There's no need to puff things up, it's all just in your head. If you feel the urge to always have the longest sword that's totally on you.

whoa, this went from some simple reality and common sense - to really really deep, fast...

Gray_howling_parrot · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

Yea I think the difference in BiS essentially matters to a handful of people that are pretty competitive but I personally don't run trifecta run trials (godslayer, planesbreaker, etc.). I've strayed away from that type of gameplay just because theres really only 1 option on what to wear and do and like you said it makes for absolutely no diversity. You can absolutely use stuff like burning spellweave and deadly and mothers sorrow and other stuff and still perform better than 95% of the playerbase.

99.999% of the game doesnt require BiS like the kilt/kinras/relequen. Experiment with different builds and be unique. Go for flashier sets. You may do 5k less dps or even 10k but who cares? Just go have fun. If you're not going for that kind of content then I wouldn't worry about it. Now, if you are, then I think it doesnt matter because I feel like a lot of top end players care more about performance, goals, numbers, etc and in that case it does just make it easier to farm because they can put all the gear on any class and class will just depend on which passives/buffs/debuffs their group needs from them.

bachpain · May 2022

I would like having different BIS sets for different classes(More play diversity)

I honestly lost interest after u33 when I couldn't play for a week. Reading patch notes and what little I had played afterwards has just felt like Zos had totally lost the identity of ESO and are grasping at straws to get something to stick with classes, skills, and mechanics. I may check it out again in the future but I may not.

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Having same BIS sets for all classes. Are you enjoying it?

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