This wasnt a question as to the importance of healers
it is of importance TO healers

just because eso doesnt need healers doesnt mean im going to stop playing as one
i like to sit at the back and only cast healing spell every now and then doesnt bother me...
And yes i would also like to test my healing rotation and see some numbers.

Healing is a very small part of what a healer should be doing. It is really very easy to over heal almost every situation.

I wouldn't mind there being a two or four man dummy that will track each players buffs during the parse. Keeping buffs and debuffs up is what makes the healer. That and having enough resources for the panic moments that sometimes occur.

As said above, HPS are not important. It's very simple. Buff uptimes are important.

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Sparxlost wrote: »

This wasnt a question as to the importance of healers
it is of importance TO healers

just because eso doesnt need healers doesnt mean im going to stop playing as one
i like to sit at the back and only cast healing spell every now and then doesnt bother me...
And yes i would also like to test my healing rotation and see some numbers.

Right, but who cares what our hps is if anything over I'd say 2k hps is a waste. They honestly need to get rid of all the self healing dps skills then healers will matter again, but when like templars basically can't die to anything but a one shot with jabs and basically all classes have something almost as good we aren't needed.

guys, no one says that healers are not needed. But we don't need heal bots. We need buff machines.

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Sparxlost wrote: »

This wasnt a question as to the importance of healers
it is of importance TO healers

just because eso doesnt need healers doesnt mean im going to stop playing as one
i like to sit at the back and only cast healing spell every now and then doesnt bother me...
And yes i would also like to test my healing rotation and see some numbers.

Right, but who cares what our hps is if anything over I'd say 2k hps is a waste. They honestly need to get rid of all the self healing dps skills then healers will matter again, but when like templars basically can't die to anything but a one shot with jabs and basically all classes have something almost as good we aren't needed.

What we need is healing to stop scaling on damage stats.

Amottica wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

I would buy it just for the novelty of it ..but here's why this won't work out.

Healing is over tuned in eso. I can litterally heal you in lvl 20 gear for veteran content just fine

Most dungeons require 1k hps and you will be fine. Just one skill can do double that requirement

As to say unfortunately healing just isn't important in eso

It is not just that but healing is situational. Anyone can easily heal a dummy up but there is nothing to gain from it and I know this from experience in a game that had a healing dummy with the option of a second summy. I found it to be one of the most useless things I had seen in a game.

Sure, there is somewhat of a rotation, Tossing orbs, shards, combat prayer, and stuff at regular intervals (which is not necessarily the highest HPS but needed), and in between, it depends on the situation what heal needs to be cast even in situations where some players are stacked or somewhat stacked.

Even when it comes to HPS, HPS is not very meaningful. It is EHPS that matters much more and that is situational and not single target.

I can agree the test dummy for healers would have to far more advanced than DPS one for it to truly test them

@Sparxlost In ESO you really shouldn't just be standing back healing, assuming that so long as you're healing your job is done. Healing is the easy part, and the least important part, of your role. Anyone in the group can slot a self-heal to survive. The bigger part of your role is providing buffs and resource regen to your allies, on top of the heals, allowing your DDs to go ham on a boss. They need to know that with you in the team they hit harder, and for far longer.

I main a stamsorc healer, and even in vet DLC dungeons I mostly use a greatsword for the carve skill, and DPS away while echoing vigor keeps everyone's HP topped up. In case of an emergency I have matriarch slotted as a panic button. Otherwise, I keep carving away and maintaining uptime on lightning flood (synergy skill as well as DPS, so will refill resources when an ally uses it). I use Spell Power Cure and Powerful Assault sets, so Echoing Vigor also increases group DPS by over 700 via those set piece buffs. And I use Symphony of Blades monster set to keep group resource regen up. I'll swap to a healing staff backbar during boss fights to apply siphon spirit for the magicka regen and combat prayer for the extra group buffs, but since a lot of players already pack their own minor berserk buff these days I usually stick to the greatsword to help out with group DPS as much as possible.

You don't want to crank out huge heals, you want to help the group crank out huge DPS. Usually, that means helping out with DPS and keeping your healing casts as minimal as possible. So a healing dummy isn't going to provide anything of value, and can only trick more players into thinking big heals are important in this game. A regular target dummy is still more important to healers.

I was a healer when I played WOW. I was a healer for the first few years of this game until they gave every class it’s own healing abilities and healers weren’t really necessary in PVP. I did ball group healing for a while until it got boring and the ball groups all quit on Xbox NA.

No, what they need is a trial dummy with no buffs/debuffs, but after disengaging with it, you get a brief readout in text chat, like posted combat metrics, so that console support can see what their uptimes actually look like. Make the dummy able to be healed so it can get things like Minor berserk and Major courage. That would actually be useful for healers.

p00tx wrote: »

No, what they need is a trial dummy with no buffs/debuffs, but after disengaging with it, you get a brief readout in text chat, like posted combat metrics, so that console support can see what their uptimes actually look like. Make the dummy able to be healed so it can get things like Minor berserk and Major courage. That would actually be useful for healers.

A trial dummy needs some buffs/debuffs to be useful as a DPS trial dummy. It is why Zenimax added the iron atronach. Doing a DPS test on a standard dummy means either the build or the rotation has to change to accommodate sustain which is provided in an organized raid group. Granted, it does not need all those buffs and debuffs provided with that test dummy but some are basically required for it to be good.

for everyone saying how unnecessary it is please tell me how necessary a card game is to the game??
less necessary than hps dummy id think..

Darkstorne wrote: »

@Sparxlost In ESO you really shouldn't just be standing back healing, assuming that so long as you're healing your job is done. Healing is the easy part, and the least important part, of your role. Anyone in the group can slot a self-heal to survive. The bigger part of your role is providing buffs and resource regen to your allies, on top of the heals, allowing your DDs to go ham on a boss. They need to know that with you in the team they hit harder, and for far longer.

I main a stamsorc healer, and even in vet DLC dungeons I mostly use a greatsword for the carve skill, and DPS away while echoing vigor keeps everyone's HP topped up. In case of an emergency I have matriarch slotted as a panic button. Otherwise, I keep carving away and maintaining uptime on lightning flood (synergy skill as well as DPS, so will refill resources when an ally uses it). I use Spell Power Cure and Powerful Assault sets, so Echoing Vigor also increases group DPS by over 700 via those set piece buffs. And I use Symphony of Blades monster set to keep group resource regen up. I'll swap to a healing staff backbar during boss fights to apply siphon spirit for the magicka regen and combat prayer for the extra group buffs, but since a lot of players already pack their own minor berserk buff these days I usually stick to the greatsword to help out with group DPS as much as possible.

You don't want to crank out huge heals, you want to help the group crank out huge DPS. Usually, that means helping out with DPS and keeping your healing casts as minimal as possible. So a healing dummy isn't going to provide anything of value, and can only trick more players into thinking big heals are important in this game. A regular target dummy is still more important to healers.

yeah but realistically if everyone takes time out of their rotation to heal themselves than it could be less damage than one or two people dedicated to healing and buffs
group optimization is knowing what buffs you have and making sure to avoid wasting resources....

kringled_1 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

No, what they need is a trial dummy with no buffs/debuffs, but after disengaging with it, you get a brief readout in text chat, like posted combat metrics, so that console support can see what their uptimes actually look like. Make the dummy able to be healed so it can get things like Minor berserk and Major courage. That would actually be useful for healers.

A trial dummy needs some buffs/debuffs to be useful as a DPS trial dummy. It is why Zenimax added the iron atronach. Doing a DPS test on a standard dummy means either the build or the rotation has to change to accommodate sustain which is provided in an organized raid group. Granted, it does not need all those buffs and debuffs provided with that test dummy but some are basically required for it to be good.

This seems to have missed the point.
p00tx is asking for a dummy situation without the dummy applying buffs so that a healer can check how they are doing at applying and keeping up buffs.

And my first post deals with the healing aspect. That post comes from experience with an actual healing dummy and how useless I found it to be. It was designed to be more robust than a single target dummy as it could spawn a second target for healing. It merely showed I could press buttons to deliver heals but did not provide the real challenges found in real fights because healing is situational, unlike DPS. A healer needs to be able to read the fight. react to damage on the group which also includes knowing where everyone is since many fights require them to move around and reposition which a dummy cannot replicate.

Also, HPS is not an important number and even less so in ESO since we tend to heavily overheal. At the end of the day, EHPS is all that matters and is based on situational damage, not healing a dummy from empty to full.

Amottica wrote: »

kringled_1 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

No, what they need is a trial dummy with no buffs/debuffs, but after disengaging with it, you get a brief readout in text chat, like posted combat metrics, so that console support can see what their uptimes actually look like. Make the dummy able to be healed so it can get things like Minor berserk and Major courage. That would actually be useful for healers.

A trial dummy needs some buffs/debuffs to be useful as a DPS trial dummy. It is why Zenimax added the iron atronach. Doing a DPS test on a standard dummy means either the build or the rotation has to change to accommodate sustain which is provided in an organized raid group. Granted, it does not need all those buffs and debuffs provided with that test dummy but some are basically required for it to be good.

This seems to have missed the point.
p00tx is asking for a dummy situation without the dummy applying buffs so that a healer can check how they are doing at applying and keeping up buffs.

And my first post deals with the healing aspect. That post comes from experience with an actual healing dummy and how useless I found it to be. It was designed to be more robust than a single target dummy as it could spawn a second target for healing. It merely showed I could press buttons to deliver heals but did not provide the real challenges found in real fights because healing is situational, unlike DPS. A healer needs to be able to read the fight. react to damage on the group which also includes knowing where everyone is since many fights require them to move around and reposition which a dummy cannot replicate.

Also, HPS is not an important number and even less so in ESO since we tend to heavily overheal. At the end of the day, EHPS is all that matters and is based on situational damage, not healing a dummy from empty to full.

a fix for this might be for the healing dummy to be able to take small amounts of every type of damage making having a good healing rotation with defensive buffs more desirable than just OP amounts of healing....
dps dummies dont tell you your buff uptimes but a lot of the buffs you have contribute to your damage in some way likely
obviously whether you find it useful or not someone out there will..

ixthUA wrote: »

Veteran dungeon healer rotation: cast one area HoT skill, DPS. I do around 17k DPS on single target.
Veteran DLC dungeon healer rotation: cast 2 HoTs, burst heal on tank when needed.
Normally HoTs will keep the team alive, if tank cannot block / roll dodge heavy hits - need burst healing, but its a bad tank.

I play differently.

Before each fights it's RR and springs, and combat prayer

Then going into the fight you it's ice blockade so they start off with a shield, then ice mangle to proc minor protection while also procing minor brittle that with shock glyph to proc minor vulnerability

This is all within 3 seconds.

Usually things are dead already because wearing splauder of ruin and spc.

If not before resetting healing there's enough time to proc action damage buff. If DPS is good I just proc scrion sustain buff to give them more resources

Note got master resto on too, and Magicka glyph to proc overcharged status effect

Amottica wrote: »

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

I would buy it just for the novelty of it ..but here's why this won't work out.

Healing is over tuned in eso. I can litterally heal you in lvl 20 gear for veteran content just fine

Most dungeons require 1k hps and you will be fine. Just one skill can do double that requirement

As to say unfortunately healing just isn't important in eso

It is not just that but healing is situational. Anyone can easily heal a dummy up but there is nothing to gain from it and I know this from experience in a game that had a healing dummy with the option of a second summy. I found it to be one of the most useless things I had seen in a game.

Sure, there is somewhat of a rotation, Tossing orbs, shards, combat prayer, and stuff at regular intervals (which is not necessarily the highest HPS but needed), and in between, it depends on the situation what heal needs to be cast even in situations where some players are stacked or somewhat stacked.

Even when it comes to HPS, HPS is not very meaningful. It is EHPS that matters much more and that is situational and not single target.

That's the problem in eso hps isn't slightly meaningful.

I say this in all seriousness I can heal with level 20 gear in veteran content just fine.