ESO lacks progression for veteran players

ADarklore · April 2022

I have said for years that ZOS doesn't care about veterans... never have. Typically after a person has played for a long period of time, they no longer have a reason to invest tons of money in the Crown Store. So in essence, they are not bringing in the money that new players do, that's a financial fact. Sure some vets may still spend money on the Crown Store, I do, but I know many others are not like that. So in reality, veteran players are more of a drain on resources than a benefit... even ESO+ is a drop in the bucket compared to what they make from Crown Store sales.

For me, I don't play for "progression", I play for the fun of questing... and honestly, I've created and deleted so many alts since I started playing in 2015... that I've never even made it to most of the DLCs. I've finished both Vvardenfell and Summerset only ONCE... and have yet to start any of the others that came after. I typically get bored with a character and want to start a new one... I'm hoping my newest keeps me going.

ADarklore · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

Today i asked myself for reasons to keep logging ESO and i cannot find them.
Next big update brings card game that only 18% of players are interested in.
I looked at the next 2 companions skills and they are so generic and nerfed that i will be better with Bastian and Mirri (i already have them, why spend money and time on extra 2 that will do exactly same things). Ember is a sorc without summons, Isobel is a templar with 16 sec cooldown on spear.
Next update is close, but i cannot find a single reason to buy it, even a half of year later at 70% discount (on Steam).

ESO had excellent content and quality of life updates and changes, now it needs endgame content for veteran players, to have a reason to continue playing it.
For example subclasses, like in FFXIV and Lineage 2: keep your character, but switch to a different class (starting at lv1), can have as many subclasses as you want. When subclass has high level, can borrow some of their abilities to the main class. I tried this system in both FFXIV and LA2 and they work great.

Mythic skills! Gather lots of leads (like for ebon mount) to acquire rare skills, only 1 of them can be active, giving some quality of life changes (like burst heal for wardens).

In regards to bolded... first off, they are not 'nerfed' as they will be capable of the same damage as Mirri and Bastian. It is your assumption that because they are a Templar and Sorcerer that they'd play exactly like a player in those skills, somehow expecting Isobel to have endless jabs and spammable spears and Ember to have summoning skills. There are plenty of Sorcerer builds without pets and people already complain about too many pets in the game- and I can only imagine an extra drain on resources with adding another pet AI into the system.

If you don't like the cooldowns, then run all Quickened... I do... except on Bastian where I have as a tank running all heavy vigorous.

CyberOnEso · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

ESO had excellent content and quality of life updates and changes, now it needs endgame content for veteran players, to have a reason to continue playing it.

I'm somewhat confused by this. What are you referring to as being "veteran" and what "endgame" are you referring to? (We all know fashion and housing is the real end game)

In terms of dungeons and trials, DLC trifectas are the pinnacle of PvE end game. I'm assuming you've already done Planesbreaker, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Emperor, Grand Overload, etc., clearing 100% of available achievements up to this point, and are eagerly awaiting Dreadsail Reef and the new chapter? If that's the case, I somewhat agree, especially now with the introduction of account-wide achievements (not exclusively that), I'm seeing a lot of end game raiding groups going through and overhaul at the moment.

I have 0 interest in achievements, as they are practically useless.

The achievements/ leaderboard scores are the end- game content. They add the purpose to the gear you collect and the CP you earn, and most importantly the skill you develop as a player.

I don't want the best gear locked behind hard content, I don't want to be more powerful than anyone else because I have the trial achievements I want to be more powerful than someone else because I know more about the game and know how best to play the game.

That is the beauty of ESO's end game, my character isn't stronger than yours. I am. The achievements and scores are the reward you get for proving your mastery of the game and they should give you nothing but pride and cosmetics.

Mixalis966 · April 2022

Heartrage wrote: »

We can get to Cp 3600, we have almost 2000 furnishing plans to collect, over a 100 provisioning recipes to collect, over a 100 motifs, we have thousands of sets pieces to collect for the sticker book, there’s lorebooks to collect, hundreds of skyshards and an extensive amount of achievements. We have trials, arenas and three tupes of pvp. Also, you can level up 6 different classes, and collect most of these again for your alts. I don’t know how much more we need and I’m sure I’ve missed a lot of stuff.

lmao at the furnishing and recipes,we are not roleplaying we want hard content

OsUfi · April 2022

Mixalis966 wrote: »

Heartrage wrote: »

We can get to Cp 3600, we have almost 2000 furnishing plans to collect, over a 100 provisioning recipes to collect, over a 100 motifs, we have thousands of sets pieces to collect for the sticker book, there’s lorebooks to collect, hundreds of skyshards and an extensive amount of achievements. We have trials, arenas and three tupes of pvp. Also, you can level up 6 different classes, and collect most of these again for your alts. I don’t know how much more we need and I’m sure I’ve missed a lot of stuff.

lmao at the furnishing and recipes,we are not roleplaying we want hard content

Then this is not the game for you. There are other games that cater to your needs out there.

ixthUA · April 2022

CyberOnEso wrote: »

That is the beauty of ESO's end game, my character isn't stronger than yours. I am. The achievements and scores are the reward you get for proving your mastery of the game and they should give you nothing but pride and cosmetics.

If someone is an average human person and played certain content for some time - it is expected for them to finish that content, so what's there to be proud about?
Maybe i am older than average trifecta runner, but i dont feel like i need to prove something to someone in a video game. Also i do not value players based on the number of achievements they have.

CyberOnEso · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

That is the beauty of ESO's end game, my character isn't stronger than yours. I am. The achievements and scores are the reward you get for proving your mastery of the game and they should give you nothing but pride and cosmetics.

If someone is an average human person and played certain content for some time - it is expected for them to finish that content, so what's there to be proud about?
Maybe i am older than average trifecta runner, but i dont feel like i need to prove something to someone in a video game. Also i do not value players based on the number of achievements they have.

It is not expected that every player has completed all the content, especially the Trifecta content in trials. Completing that content requires dedication, time and skill.

You don't need to prove anything to anyone, you're choosing to prove it to yourself by achieving somthing that is a genuine challenge, that shows your mastery of the game. The achievements allow you to push yourself, and your team, to achieve something that is a genuine challenge.

End game PvE isn't (and shouldn't be) about grinding more skill lines or collecting ever stronger gear. It should be about improving yourself and your own abilities to master increasing challenging obstacles and ESO's endgame content is all about that, not improving your character but improving your own ability and own mastery of an increasing complex game.

End game progression in ESO is not about your character, it is about progressing yourself, your knowledge and your skill, and that is far more satifying.

Cuddlypuff · April 2022

Sorry completely messed up the quote on the last one, and can't seem to edit or delete my own post.

CyberOnEso wrote: »

End game progression in ESO is not about your character, it is about progressing yourself, your knowledge and your skill, and that is far more satifying.

That's true but you can say that as the mantra for literally anything you do in life that has no defined progression structure. Maybe some people want more rewards as they go or more incentive to repeat/improve at content. Others might want a more balanced, competitive and lag-free PVP experience worth improving their skills in. It's up to the devs to make the game fun, not just for the players to invent their own fun.

CyberOnEso · April 2022

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

That's true but you can say that as the mantra for literally anything you do in life that has no defined progression structure. Maybe some people want more rewards as they go or more incentive to repeat/improve at content. Others might want a more balanced, competitive and lag-free PVP experience worth improving their skills in. It's up to the devs to make the game fun, not just for the players to invent their own fun.

That's fair, however- from the PvE perspective, the devs do put in the achievements and the obstacles for you to progress and overcome in the form of the Hard Mode trials and the Trifecta achievements. They just released a new trial on the PTS 96 hours ago and it provides wonderful progression opporunties, come join and try and best it- it's fun! The trials and dungeons are incredibly well made and the Hard Modes provide a challenge for all players.

The trials do have rewards in the form of titles and mounts, I wouldn't want them to put progression behind difficult content. If you got a weapon which gave 5% more damage for doing the hardest achievement in the game I think that would be a terrible design decision. At the moment all veteran players characters are as strong as everyone elses and it makes for fun and fair competion.

Gray_howling_parrot · April 2022

CyberOnEso wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

ESO had excellent content and quality of life updates and changes, now it needs endgame content for veteran players, to have a reason to continue playing it.

I'm somewhat confused by this. What are you referring to as being "veteran" and what "endgame" are you referring to? (We all know fashion and housing is the real end game)

In terms of dungeons and trials, DLC trifectas are the pinnacle of PvE end game. I'm assuming you've already done Planesbreaker, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Emperor, Grand Overload, etc., clearing 100% of available achievements up to this point, and are eagerly awaiting Dreadsail Reef and the new chapter? If that's the case, I somewhat agree, especially now with the introduction of account-wide achievements (not exclusively that), I'm seeing a lot of end game raiding groups going through and overhaul at the moment.

I have 0 interest in achievements, as they are practically useless.

The achievements/ leaderboard scores are the end- game content. They add the purpose to the gear you collect and the CP you earn, and most importantly the skill you develop as a player.

I don't want the best gear locked behind hard content, I don't want to be more powerful than anyone else because I have the trial achievements I want to be more powerful than someone else because I know more about the game and know how best to play the game.

That is the beauty of ESO's end game, my character isn't stronger than yours. I am. The achievements and scores are the reward you get for proving your mastery of the game and they should give you nothing but pride and cosmetics.

Typically though outside of a title or body marking nowadays, not much else is offered from this content. I'd say 0.1% of the playerbase actually engages in this stuff (vet hm trials/trifectas in 4 man content/etc). I wish more did as I love it. But also, the leaderboards don't mean anything other than bragging rights. Bring a better rewards structure in like mounts, pets and cosmetics. Add a mount collection system with in-game earnable mounts that is accessible to all players and that is in content outside of vet hm trifecta trials and youll see a huge uptick in the amount of people striving for this content. The new vet trial gives you body markings . . . what's the point?

Gray_howling_parrot · April 2022

CyberOnEso wrote: »

Cuddlypuff wrote: »

That's true but you can say that as the mantra for literally anything you do in life that has no defined progression structure. Maybe some people want more rewards as they go or more incentive to repeat/improve at content. Others might want a more balanced, competitive and lag-free PVP experience worth improving their skills in. It's up to the devs to make the game fun, not just for the players to invent their own fun.

That's fair, however- from the PvE perspective, the devs do put in the achievements and the obstacles for you to progress and overcome in the form of the Hard Mode trials and the Trifecta achievements. They just released a new trial on the PTS 96 hours ago and it provides wonderful progression opporunties, come join and try and best it- it's fun! The trials and dungeons are incredibly well made and the Hard Modes provide a challenge for all players.

The trials do have rewards in the form of titles and mounts, I wouldn't want them to put progression behind difficult content. If you got a weapon which gave 5% more damage for doing the hardest achievement in the game I think that would be a terrible design decision. At the moment all veteran players characters are as strong as everyone elses and it makes for fun and fair competion.

Theres only mounts for godslayer and planesbreaker currently. Why not have a mount for every trifecta in the game? Including dungeons, arenas, etc. There are so many people that play MMOs for mounts. It's a huge feature in most MMOs

EozZoe1989 · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

ESO had excellent content and quality of life updates and changes, now it needs endgame content for veteran players, to have a reason to continue playing it.

I'm somewhat confused by this. What are you referring to as being "veteran" and what "endgame" are you referring to? (We all know fashion and housing is the real end game)

In terms of dungeons and trials, DLC trifectas are the pinnacle of PvE end game. I'm assuming you've already done Planesbreaker, Godslayer, Gryphon Heart, Emperor, Grand Overload, etc., clearing 100% of available achievements up to this point, and are eagerly awaiting Dreadsail Reef and the new chapter? If that's the case, I somewhat agree, especially now with the introduction of account-wide achievements (not exclusively that), I'm seeing a lot of end game raiding groups going through and overhaul at the moment.

I have 0 interest in achievements, as they are practically useless.

some these things are new to me too i had a break and came back to slang words lol .. to names of things iam like god slayer.. what lol-- but its because iam old lol maybe. meh.. but i think its the hard mode of Duggen's.. kinda what i call it.. i think there should be a way to enter, veteran it would be nice to find people for a 2 person group.. then find others.. when entered.. cool idea maybe iam wording it wrong but okay lol

Cuddlypuff · April 2022

I can only speak for my wife and myself when it comes to endgame PVE progression, but it feels like it is solely carried by the social aspects of raiding. We made this our main game because it was something we both enjoyed playing together, rather than the wider community. We still like playing with other people but we don't play this game just to make friends or chat on a discord voice channel all day for example.

When it comes to endgame PVE, our DPS is respectable (wife's dps is actually kinda cracked

) and we've done most vet trial HMs over the course of 1-2 months of discord pugging. Before discord, we tried some raid guilds and got tired of the constant roster progging and stagnation. Vet dungeon trifectas are pretty manageable but we haven't bothered much because the rewards are kinda lame. Vet trial trifectas have rewards we'd like (mounts & title) but they just seem too demanding and punishing to invest towards. Extra punishing because of all the crashing, dc, lag, rollback, fps issues etc that could affect any of the 12 players. And by demanding, I don't really mean the knowledge or skills since that can be learned. It's more the social demands of getting into a core and maintaining that positive mentality until the job's done.

I guess that's why our gameplay is pretty much limited to duo bombing in Cyrodiil nowadays.

ixthUA · April 2022

CyberOnEso wrote: »

End game progression in ESO is not about your character, it is about progressing yourself, your knowledge and your skill, and that is far more satifying.

Developing character also requires knowledge and skill, but ESO severely lacks character development.
When character cannot be developed above average and player reflexes are all that matters - it's an action game genre, not RPG.

Aislinna · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

I would gladly play ESO more if there was meaningful progression, but now i am thinking to stop playing until next big DLC goes on sale.

What do you consider to be "meaningful progression" and what are you progressing towards?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you've been saying, but it sounds like you've dismissed half the game as something you don't want to do or strive for and only want to level up skill lines. You say you've "farmed all the dungeon sets you want"; but have you become proficient at veteran dungeons, arenas and trials in every role you created a build for, doesn't even have to be hard mode? And it's not about getting the achievement for them, but about challenging yourself to get better. Leveling skill lines and making gear gold is great, but to what end, or was that the end goal? What do you want to do with those leveled skill lines and gold gear as a veteran end game player?

Amottica · April 2022

NettleCarrier wrote: »

Are you talking simple solo progression? I'm CP2110 and haven't completed even half the zones in the game, but I have run all trials on at least vet difficulty - the hard modes being just a little too "much" for me to want to spend time on. I haven't run out of things to do yet, but I've also been around long enough to know that this isn't the best game if you are constantly seeking new challenges as they are a rather "slow drip" here.

I agree with this. Especially since the concept of progression is meaningless if one is not enjoying the game. I do not play the game to level up or gain CP as that is very meaningless in terms of why we actually play. At least it is for those who enjoy actually playing the game and raiding.

Fizzyapple · April 2022

Give soloing a try. Most of the dlc dungeons solo on normal are much harder than a normal trial with 12 people.

ixthUA · April 2022

Aislinna wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

I would gladly play ESO more if there was meaningful progression, but now i am thinking to stop playing until next big DLC goes on sale.

What do you consider to be "meaningful progression" and what are you progressing towards?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you've been saying, but it sounds like you've dismissed half the game as something you don't want to do or strive for and only want to level up skill lines. You say you've "farmed all the dungeon sets you want"; but have you become proficient at veteran dungeons, arenas and trials in every role you created a build for, doesn't even have to be hard mode? And it's not about getting the achievement for them, but about challenging yourself to get better. Leveling skill lines and making gear gold is great, but to what end, or was that the end goal? What do you want to do with those leveled skill lines and gold gear as a veteran end game player?

With my maxed skill lines and golden equipment i was doing daily random veteran dungeon, until i realized it's meaningless.
I gave many examples of progression earlier in this thread, as some other people also did.
I have no interest in soloing group content, as it can be done in group, much faster and with the same result (loot).

Sarousse42 · April 2022

4 words : make the game harder.

Sylvermynx · April 2022

Sarousse42 wrote: »

4 words : make the game harder.

Optionally harder....

Troodon80 · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

I have 0 interest in achievements, as they are practically useless.

While I agree in part, the personal progression side of the game exists whether you like achievements or not.

CyberOnEso wrote: »

That is the beauty of ESO's end game, my character isn't stronger than yours. I am. The achievements and scores are the reward you get for proving your mastery of the game and they should give you nothing but pride and cosmetics.

Exactly this.

ixthUA wrote: »

Developing character also requires knowledge and skill, but ESO severely lacks character development.
When character cannot be developed above average and player reflexes are all that matters - it's an action game genre, not RPG.

Touching briefly on the character development side of it, there are two parts: character identity, the lore of your character, which is entirely up to you to create beyond being "The Vestige," and, second, how good your character actually is. Yes, reflexes play a part, but not significantly more than most other games in the MMORPG genre. Let's not confuse this with being an offline single-player RPG with a pause button. This is a massively multiplayer online game, first and foremost, and most require some element of physical capability to be "good" at. Whether you're looking at WoW, FFXIV, Lost Ark, ESO, New World, or any of the other countless MMOs out there, there is one thing in common: a good rotation and a good understanding of game mechanics will make you better than the average player.

But getting good at such things is also part of the progression that you say ESO doesn't have.

ESO has a very clear line of progression from new player doing no damage, not understanding dodge or block, or having very little idea how heal skills work, getting their very first death to a mudcrab, all the way to those people doing 100+ CPM and outperforming everyone else, getting day one trifectas and pushing scores in trials. It's not just about high speed reflexes CPM only matters when you understand why those buttons need to be pressed and in what order to press them. It's about understanding of game mechanics. I was in a vAA run a couple days ago and there was a magDK with a heavy attack build outparsing most others, but with a CPM of below 50. Reflexes are not everything.

Just as an aside, RPGs have come far since the days of Chainmail and D&D, and most RPGs fall into a category such as Action RPG, Adventure RPG, etc. If we're looking at games which fall under the umbrella of RPG, let's look at Elden Ring? Which, by most accounts, is much more punishing than ESO for not having reflexes, depending on the content or your own goal.

Just because you have no interest in the content or achievements or titles doesn't mean the content and progression isn't there. It just means you're not interested in it. Those are two completely different things.

Aislinna · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

I would gladly play ESO more if there was meaningful progression, but now i am thinking to stop playing until next big DLC goes on sale.

What do you consider to be "meaningful progression" and what are you progressing towards?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you've been saying, but it sounds like you've dismissed half the game as something you don't want to do or strive for and only want to level up skill lines. You say you've "farmed all the dungeon sets you want"; but have you become proficient at veteran dungeons, arenas and trials in every role you created a build for, doesn't even have to be hard mode? And it's not about getting the achievement for them, but about challenging yourself to get better. Leveling skill lines and making gear gold is great, but to what end, or was that the end goal? What do you want to do with those leveled skill lines and gold gear as a veteran end game player?

With my maxed skill lines and golden equipment i was doing daily random veteran dungeon, until i realized it's meaningless.
I gave many examples of progression earlier in this thread, as some other people also did.
I have no interest in soloing group content, as it can be done in group, much faster and with the same result (loot).

Good luck with your next game, I hope you find the meaningful progression you are looking for in it.

ixthUA · April 2022

Aislinna wrote: »

Good luck with your next game, I hope you find the meaningful progression you are looking for in it.

Still playing my previous game (from 2012), 10 years old and still have things to unlock and level up (like over 100 skill lines).

ixthUA · April 2022

Troodon80 wrote: »

Touching briefly on the character development side of it, there are two parts: character identity, the lore of your character, which is entirely up to you to create beyond being "The Vestige," and, second, how good your character actually is. Yes, reflexes play a part, but not significantly more than most other games in the MMORPG genre. Let's not confuse this with being an offline single-player RPG with a pause button. This is a massively multiplayer online game, first and foremost, and most require some element of physical capability to be "good" at. Whether you're looking at WoW, FFXIV, Lost Ark, ESO, New World, or any of the other countless MMOs out there, there is one thing in common: a good rotation and a good understanding of game mechanics will make you better than the average player.

But getting good at such things is also part of the progression that you say ESO doesn't have.

ESO has a very clear line of progression from new player doing no damage, not understanding dodge or block, or having very little idea how heal skills work, getting their very first death to a mudcrab, all the way to those people doing 100+ CPM and outperforming everyone else, getting day one trifectas and pushing scores in trials. It's not just about high speed reflexes CPM only matters when you understand why those buttons need to be pressed and in what order to press them. It's about understanding of game mechanics. I was in a vAA run a couple days ago and there was a magDK with a heavy attack build outparsing most others, but with a CPM of below 50. Reflexes are not everything.

Just as an aside, RPGs have come far since the days of Chainmail and D&D, and most RPGs fall into a category such as Action RPG, Adventure RPG, etc. If we're looking at games which fall under the umbrella of RPG, let's look at Elden Ring? Which, by most accounts, is much more punishing than ESO for not having reflexes, depending on the content or your own goal.

Just because you have no interest in the content or achievements or titles doesn't mean the content and progression isn't there. It just means you're not interested in it. Those are two completely different things.

You havent listed a single leveling-focused MMORPG, which were very popular at the time WOW launched, and some of them are still popular today: Ragnarek, Rappels, Lineage 2, RF Online, Forsaken World, Age of Wushu, Path of Exile, and many more. There, characters differ not by reflexes, but by the character development path players took, and there is no cap on character development.
In ESO, being more of an action game than RPG, after 1 year characters are similar, and only player reflexes differ. ESO severely lacks character development in the endgame, probably why i rarely see 1800+ cp players and never 2200+ cp, of 3600. And why i have nothing to do in game at only 1350 cp.

OsUfi · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

Troodon80 wrote: »

Touching briefly on the character development side of it, there are two parts: character identity, the lore of your character, which is entirely up to you to create beyond being "The Vestige," and, second, how good your character actually is. Yes, reflexes play a part, but not significantly more than most other games in the MMORPG genre. Let's not confuse this with being an offline single-player RPG with a pause button. This is a massively multiplayer online game, first and foremost, and most require some element of physical capability to be "good" at. Whether you're looking at WoW, FFXIV, Lost Ark, ESO, New World, or any of the other countless MMOs out there, there is one thing in common: a good rotation and a good understanding of game mechanics will make you better than the average player.

But getting good at such things is also part of the progression that you say ESO doesn't have.

ESO has a very clear line of progression from new player doing no damage, not understanding dodge or block, or having very little idea how heal skills work, getting their very first death to a mudcrab, all the way to those people doing 100+ CPM and outperforming everyone else, getting day one trifectas and pushing scores in trials. It's not just about high speed reflexes CPM only matters when you understand why those buttons need to be pressed and in what order to press them. It's about understanding of game mechanics. I was in a vAA run a couple days ago and there was a magDK with a heavy attack build outparsing most others, but with a CPM of below 50. Reflexes are not everything.

Just as an aside, RPGs have come far since the days of Chainmail and D&D, and most RPGs fall into a category such as Action RPG, Adventure RPG, etc. If we're looking at games which fall under the umbrella of RPG, let's look at Elden Ring? Which, by most accounts, is much more punishing than ESO for not having reflexes, depending on the content or your own goal.

Just because you have no interest in the content or achievements or titles doesn't mean the content and progression isn't there. It just means you're not interested in it. Those are two completely different things.

You havent listed a single leveling-focused MMORPG, which were very popular at the time WOW launched, and some of them are still popular today: Ragnarek, Rappels, Lineage 2, RF Online, Forsaken World, Age of Wushu, Path of Exile, and many more. There, characters differ not by reflexes, but by the character development path players took, and there is no cap on character development.

I've played some of these games. I'd never play them again. Oh god, Lineage... No! If ESO ever became anything like that, I'd quit in an instant. The problem with endless level grind games is that the hardcore (or rich) go so far nobody else can keep up.

My OG perfect game MMO style game was Guild Wars one. Get to level 20, hunt for the skills you wanted, and everyone was on a roughly level playing field. Then, yes, reflexes counted instead of the days, months, years you devoted to a computer game.

It really does seem like you want ESO to be something it isn't. Try playing stuff like you listed, or Black Desert Online. That's an endless grind of super hardcore veteran do-dabs for ya.

ixthUA · April 2022

OsUfi wrote: »

I've played some of these games. I'd never play them again. Oh god, Lineage... No! If ESO ever became anything like that, I'd quit in an instant. The problem with endless level grind games is that the hardcore (or rich) go so far nobody else can keep up.

Lineage 2 was very popular during WOW time, and is still very popular on private servers, despite not having any development in 14 years.
I guess casualization is the norm these days.

OsUfi · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

I've played some of these games. I'd never play them again. Oh god, Lineage... No! If ESO ever became anything like that, I'd quit in an instant. The problem with endless level grind games is that the hardcore (or rich) go so far nobody else can keep up.

Lineage 2 was very popular during WOW time, and is still very popular on private servers, despite not having any development in 14 years.
I guess casualization is the norm these days.

Lineage 2 was very popular. By the look of the re-makes, and revolution on mobile, they continue to be popular. But they're the absolute extreme opposite of what ESO is progression wise. Lineage 2 went far beyond not being friendly to casuals, to only be friendly to the hardcore, living in the game with all their free time types.

If you're one of those people that can handle the leveling systems in Lineage 2, power to ya. But that system puts off anyone who has any life outside of gaming.

ixthUA · April 2022

Lineage 2 leveling system is not a problem, maximalism is. You dont need highest level and best equipment to enjoy the game. Endgame PVE progression gives something to do.

Amottica · April 2022

ixthUA wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Good luck with your next game, I hope you find the meaningful progression you are looking for in it.

Still playing my previous game (from 2012), 10 years old and still have things to unlock and level up (like over 100 skill lines).

still have 100 skill lines to unlock and level up after 10 years of playing. That does not sound like progression but merely a grind for skills that likely cannot be used most of the time.

WraithCaller88 · April 2022

Sarousse42 wrote: »

4 words : make the game harder.

7 words: not everyone wants to play Dark Souls