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Should Force Shock get a "staff element" specific morph?
Vaoh
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ZOS is looking heavily into morph options this year due to the hybridization changes. Would you like for Force Shock to have a morph which gains new effects based on the staff element?
The obvious purpose of this would be to give each element a basic effective "spammable" ability.
Just my own suggestion of how it might look:
Ability Base: Force Shock
Focus all the elemental energies with your staff and blast an enemy for 696 Flame Damage, 696 Frost Damage, and 696 Shock Damage. Up to 2 nearby enemies will take 2399 Magic Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect.
(Gains the original Force Pulse AoE effect, and has the same base damage as the Crushing Shock morph. You can choose not to morph this ability if you would prefer to have the "true" original force pulse without an interrupt)
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Ability Morph 1: Crushing Shock
Focus all the elemental energies with your staff and blast an enemy for 696 Flame Damage 696 Frost Damage, and 696 Shock Damage. Up to 2 nearby enemies will take 2399 Magic Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect. If the original enemy is struck while casting, they are interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 3 seconds.
(Gains the original Force Pulse AoE effect, and the original Crushing Shock interrupt)
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Ability Morph 2: Elemental Pulse
Elemental Pulse: Focus the inherent elemental energy within your staff and blast an enemy with three beams of magic, each dealing 696 Magic Damage. Up to 2 nearby enemies will take 2399 Magic Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect.
(No Destruction Staff equipped: Base description..... Gains a new effect based on staff element)
Freezing Pulse: Focus the inherent elemental energy within your staff and blast an enemy with four beams of deadly frost, each dealing 575 Frost Damage. Up to 2 nearby enemies will take 2399 Frost Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect.
Electrifying Pulse: Focus the inherent elemental energy within your staff and blast an enemy with three beams of chained lightning, each dealing 696 Shock Damage. Up to 5 nearby enemies will take three instances of 800 Shock Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect.
Scorching Pulse: Focus the inherent elemental energy within your staff and blast an enemy with a beam of searing fire, dealing 696 Flame Damage and 249 Flame Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can stack. The beam detonates on impact, dealing 2399 Flame Damage to all enemies within 4 meters.
(Inferno Staff: Single target portion hits different and gains 5% more total damage. AoE portion strikes all enemies in a smaller radius.)
(Lightning Staff: Single target portion no change. AoE portion strikes more targets and deals an additional instance of damage.)
(Ice Staff: Single target portion strikes for an additional instance of damage and gains 10% more total damage. AoE portion no change.)
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Edited by Vaoh on April 16, 2022 4:20PM The obvious purpose of this would be to give each element a basic effective "spammable" ability.
Just my own suggestion of how it might look:
Ability Base: Force Shock
Focus all the elemental energies with your staff and blast an enemy for 696 Flame Damage, 696 Frost Damage, and 696 Shock Damage. Up to 2 nearby enemies will take 2399 Magic Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect.
(Gains the original Force Pulse AoE effect, and has the same base damage as the Crushing Shock morph. You can choose not to morph this ability if you would prefer to have the "true" original force pulse without an interrupt)
___
Ability Morph 1: Crushing Shock
Focus all the elemental energies with your staff and blast an enemy for 696 Flame Damage 696 Frost Damage, and 696 Shock Damage. Up to 2 nearby enemies will take 2399 Magic Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect. If the original enemy is struck while casting, they are interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 3 seconds.
(Gains the original Force Pulse AoE effect, and the original Crushing Shock interrupt)
___
Ability Morph 2: Elemental Pulse
Elemental Pulse: Focus the inherent elemental energy within your staff and blast an enemy with three beams of magic, each dealing 696 Magic Damage. Up to 2 nearby enemies will take 2399 Magic Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect.
(No Destruction Staff equipped: Base description..... Gains a new effect based on staff element)
Freezing Pulse: Focus the inherent elemental energy within your staff and blast an enemy with four beams of deadly frost, each dealing 575 Frost Damage. Up to 2 nearby enemies will take 2399 Frost Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect.
Electrifying Pulse: Focus the inherent elemental energy within your staff and blast an enemy with three beams of chained lightning, each dealing 696 Shock Damage. Up to 5 nearby enemies will take three instances of 800 Shock Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect.
Scorching Pulse: Focus the inherent elemental energy within your staff and blast an enemy with a beam of searing fire, dealing 696 Flame Damage and 249 Flame Damage every 1 second for 6 seconds. This effect can stack. The beam detonates on impact, dealing 2399 Flame Damage to all enemies within 4 meters.
(Inferno Staff: Single target portion hits different and gains 5% more total damage. AoE portion strikes all enemies in a smaller radius.)
(Lightning Staff: Single target portion no change. AoE portion strikes more targets and deals an additional instance of damage.)
(Ice Staff: Single target portion strikes for an additional instance of damage and gains 10% more total damage. AoE portion no change.)
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Should Force Shock get a "staff element" specific morph? 28 votes
Yes
71%
20 votes
No
10%
3 votes
Maybe
17%
5 votes
Other
0%
0 votes
0
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Ksariyu✭✭✭✭Yes, I've suggested this several times. Second biggest problem for DPS Frost and Shock users is they don't get a spammable. This is such an easy solution I'm amazed it's not already a thing (Same said for stam-whip though, so. . .).0
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ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yes, I've suggested this several times. Second biggest problem for DPS Frost and Shock users is they don't get a spammable. This is such an easy solution I'm amazed it's not already a thing (Same said for stam-whip though, so. . .).
Frost Dps can use frost reach since waking flame. Because they buffed the direct damage portion to match other spammables.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
Ksariyu✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Frost Dps can use frost reach since waking flame.
I was gonna mention Reach in my original reply and how dumb it was to try and make a DoT simultaneously a spammable. Didn't figure it was worth it since I didn't imagine many people actually bothered. Again, single-element Force Pulse is a clean, simple solution to the problem. Reach as a spammable still has DoT resource costs, so it's still always going to be the weaker option no matter what, not to mention that even using it as a spammable means you're literally cutting off half it's value. It was a tacky bandaid solution, like so many that ZoS has come up with lately.
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ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Frost Dps can use frost reach since waking flame.
I was gonna mention Reach in my original reply and how dumb it was to try and make a DoT simultaneously a spammable. Didn't figure it was worth it since I didn't imagine many people actually bothered. Again, single-element Force Pulse is a clean, simple solution to the problem. Reach as a spammable still has DoT resource costs, so it's still always going to be the weaker option no matter what, not to mention that even using it as a spammable means you're literally cutting off half it's value. It was a tacky bandaid solution, like so many that ZoS has come up with lately.
The Master Staff is kinda nuts with itPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Frost Dps can use frost reach since waking flame.
I was gonna mention Reach in my original reply and how dumb it was to try and make a DoT simultaneously a spammable. Didn't figure it was worth it since I didn't imagine many people actually bothered. Again, single-element Force Pulse is a clean, simple solution to the problem. Reach as a spammable still has DoT resource costs, so it's still always going to be the weaker option no matter what, not to mention that even using it as a spammable means you're literally cutting off half it's value. It was a tacky bandaid solution, like so many that ZoS has come up with lately.
Reach has the same standard 2700 base cost as every other ranged spammable because it reduces in cost as it levels. Melee and stamina spammables typically have -15% cost lowering them to 2295 so that wouldn't apply here.
The direct damage of Frost Reach is exactly the same as the combined direct damage from Force Shocks 3 elements. Both abilities share the same damage standard as other skills such as Silver Shards and Elemental Weapon.
Although, since every skill and morph in the game includes improvements as the skill ranks up and passives that bring them above and beyond standards, Silver Shards has 10% additional damage and Elemental Weapon gets 5% more damage (as well as the orbs).
The dot that it applies will tick as you rotate through other skills which is a nice boost to dps and makes the spammable pretty unique, it also pairs nicely with Masters Staff since that staff has a low duration of 4s for a substantial boost to your damage. I would not say you're wasting half of the skills value by using the skill as a spammable, there isn't a single dot focussed skill in the game with that much upfront damage AND dot damage. It's a double wammy. Typically dot skills with direct damage upfront like Poison Injection or Twin Slashes have about 50% of a spammables damage upfront which is why they're not used as spammables.
Reach guarantees status effect application so you will always get chilled which does a small amount of direct damage and gives you minor brittle for +10% crit damage done.
The dot, status effect and minor brittle basically puts the spammable at or above similar options, but goes even farther in the hands of a Warden for 10% additional frost damage and 10% additional crit damage.
That all being said, it is an odd place to put a frost spammable, but it's a damn good one and shouldn't be downplayed. I and many others like it the way it is, they managed to keep the support identity of frost staves while creating a frost spammable for Warden's thats actually really good.
I hope the same can be done for Shock Sorc's some day, I'm just not sure where they could do it, maybe shock reach? OP's idea is a good one, but honeslty I'd rather see Mages Wrath and Endless Fury be combined into 1 morph with the other morph changing into a shock spammable. Both morphs do the aoe damage and the magicka return is negligible, they could easily be combined into 1 skill to make room for something unique.
However, my hopes of that idea kinda died when they tried to make Crystal Frags a spammable by reducing the cast time, so perhaps our best bet IS with Shock Reach or Force Shock, at least then there would be a universal Shock spammable option which I think is smart to add to the game.Edited by MashmalloMan on April 18, 2022 6:37AMPC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Frost Dps can use frost reach since waking flame.
I was gonna mention Reach in my original reply and how dumb it was to try and make a DoT simultaneously a spammable. Didn't figure it was worth it since I didn't imagine many people actually bothered. Again, single-element Force Pulse is a clean, simple solution to the problem. Reach as a spammable still has DoT resource costs, so it's still always going to be the weaker option no matter what, not to mention that even using it as a spammable means you're literally cutting off half it's value. It was a tacky bandaid solution, like so many that ZoS has come up with lately.
Reach has the same standard 2700 base cost as every other ranged spammable because it reduces in cost as it levels. Melee and stamina spammables typically have -15% cost lowering them to 2295 so that wouldn't apply here.
The direct damage of Frost Reach is exactly the same as the combined direct damage from Force Shocks 3 elements. Both abilities share the same damage standard as other skills such as Silver Shards and Elemental Weapon.
Although, since every skill and morph in the game includes improvements as the skill ranks up and passives that bring them above and beyond standards, Silver Shards has 10% additional damage and Elemental Weapon gets 5% more damage (as well as the orbs).
The dot that it applies will tick as you rotate through other skills which is a nice boost to dps and makes the spammable pretty unique, it also pairs nicely with Masters Staff since that staff has a low duration of 4s for a substantial boost to your damage. I would not say you're wasting half of the skills value by using the skill as a spammable, there isn't a single dot focussed skill in the game with that much upfront damage AND dot damage. It's a double wammy. Typically dot skills with direct damage upfront like Poison Injection or Twin Slashes have about 50% of a spammables damage upfront which is why they're not used as spammables.
Reach guarantees status effect application so you will always get chilled which does a small amount of direct damage and gives you minor brittle for +10% crit damage done.
The dot, status effect and minor brittle basically puts the spammable at or above similar options, but goes even farther in the hands of a Warden for 10% additional frost damage and 10% additional crit damage.
That all being said, it is an odd place to put a frost spammable, but it's a damn good one and shouldn't be downplayed. I and many others like it the way it is, they managed to keep the support identity of frost staves while creating a frost spammable for Warden's thats actually really good.
I hope the same can be done for Shock Sorc's some day, I'm just not sure where they could do it, maybe shock reach? OP's idea is a good one, but honeslty I'd rather see Mages Wrath and Endless Fury be combined into 1 morph with the other morph changing into a shock spammable. Both morphs do the aoe damage and the magicka return is negligible, they could easily be combined into 1 skill to make room for something unique.
However, my hopes of that idea kinda died when they tried to make Crystal Frags a spammable by reducing the cast time, so perhaps our best bet IS with Shock Reach or Force Shock, at least then there would be a universal Shock spammable option which I think is smart to add to the game.
i think they should make shock clench's single target portion the same as frost reach, then they'd be good to go since it'd essentially be a magic costing version of silver shards. but i totally agree. frost reach as a spammable is fantastic, while it was a bit of a janky choice, the buff made it VERY good.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX1 -
Ksariyu✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Frost Dps can use frost reach since waking flame.
I was gonna mention Reach in my original reply and how dumb it was to try and make a DoT simultaneously a spammable. Didn't figure it was worth it since I didn't imagine many people actually bothered. Again, single-element Force Pulse is a clean, simple solution to the problem. Reach as a spammable still has DoT resource costs, so it's still always going to be the weaker option no matter what, not to mention that even using it as a spammable means you're literally cutting off half it's value. It was a tacky bandaid solution, like so many that ZoS has come up with lately.
Reach has the same standard 2700 base cost as every other ranged spammable because it reduces in cost as it levels. Melee and stamina spammables typically have -15% cost lowering them to 2295 so that wouldn't apply here.
The direct damage of Frost Reach is exactly the same as the combined direct damage from Force Shocks 3 elements. Both abilities share the same damage standard as other skills such as Silver Shards and Elemental Weapon.
Although, since every skill and morph in the game includes improvements as the skill ranks up and passives that bring them above and beyond standards, Silver Shards has 10% additional damage and Elemental Weapon gets 5% more damage (as well as the orbs).
The dot that it applies will tick as you rotate through other skills which is a nice boost to dps and makes the spammable pretty unique, it also pairs nicely with Masters Staff since that staff has a low duration of 4s for a substantial boost to your damage. I would not say you're wasting half of the skills value by using the skill as a spammable, there isn't a single dot focussed skill in the game with that much upfront damage AND dot damage. It's a double wammy. Typically dot skills with direct damage upfront like Poison Injection or Twin Slashes have about 50% of a spammables damage upfront which is why they're not used as spammables.
Reach guarantees status effect application so you will always get chilled which does a small amount of direct damage and gives you minor brittle for +10% crit damage done.
The dot, status effect and minor brittle basically puts the spammable at or above similar options, but goes even farther in the hands of a Warden for 10% additional frost damage and 10% additional crit damage.
That all being said, it is an odd place to put a frost spammable, but it's a damn good one and shouldn't be downplayed. I and many others like it the way it is, they managed to keep the support identity of frost staves while creating a frost spammable for Warden's thats actually really good.
I hope the same can be done for Shock Sorc's some day, I'm just not sure where they could do it, maybe shock reach? OP's idea is a good one, but honeslty I'd rather see Mages Wrath and Endless Fury be combined into 1 morph with the other morph changing into a shock spammable. Both morphs do the aoe damage and the magicka return is negligible, they could easily be combined into 1 skill to make room for something unique.
However, my hopes of that idea kinda died when they tried to make Crystal Frags a spammable by reducing the cast time, so perhaps our best bet IS with Shock Reach or Force Shock, at least then there would be a universal Shock spammable option which I think is smart to add to the game.
Compelling argument for sure. I'd forgotten about the cost reduction so it is at least in line with those spammables. I can see what you mean about the DoT instead acting as bonus damage during your upkeep cycles; it is a unique bonus for a spam skill, which is cool.
I still believe Force Pulse would make a better spammable given a single-element option for one small reason. By turning Destruction's main single-target DoT into a spammable, you are taking away a DoT from Frost users. This is especially a problem considering how essential DoTs are for doing any significant damage. It may not be a huge issue, but it's something easily avoidable with the OP's suggestion.1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »Frost Dps can use frost reach since waking flame.
I was gonna mention Reach in my original reply and how dumb it was to try and make a DoT simultaneously a spammable. Didn't figure it was worth it since I didn't imagine many people actually bothered. Again, single-element Force Pulse is a clean, simple solution to the problem. Reach as a spammable still has DoT resource costs, so it's still always going to be the weaker option no matter what, not to mention that even using it as a spammable means you're literally cutting off half it's value. It was a tacky bandaid solution, like so many that ZoS has come up with lately.
Reach has the same standard 2700 base cost as every other ranged spammable because it reduces in cost as it levels. Melee and stamina spammables typically have -15% cost lowering them to 2295 so that wouldn't apply here.
The direct damage of Frost Reach is exactly the same as the combined direct damage from Force Shocks 3 elements. Both abilities share the same damage standard as other skills such as Silver Shards and Elemental Weapon.
Although, since every skill and morph in the game includes improvements as the skill ranks up and passives that bring them above and beyond standards, Silver Shards has 10% additional damage and Elemental Weapon gets 5% more damage (as well as the orbs).
The dot that it applies will tick as you rotate through other skills which is a nice boost to dps and makes the spammable pretty unique, it also pairs nicely with Masters Staff since that staff has a low duration of 4s for a substantial boost to your damage. I would not say you're wasting half of the skills value by using the skill as a spammable, there isn't a single dot focussed skill in the game with that much upfront damage AND dot damage. It's a double wammy. Typically dot skills with direct damage upfront like Poison Injection or Twin Slashes have about 50% of a spammables damage upfront which is why they're not used as spammables.
Reach guarantees status effect application so you will always get chilled which does a small amount of direct damage and gives you minor brittle for +10% crit damage done.
The dot, status effect and minor brittle basically puts the spammable at or above similar options, but goes even farther in the hands of a Warden for 10% additional frost damage and 10% additional crit damage.
That all being said, it is an odd place to put a frost spammable, but it's a damn good one and shouldn't be downplayed. I and many others like it the way it is, they managed to keep the support identity of frost staves while creating a frost spammable for Warden's thats actually really good.
I hope the same can be done for Shock Sorc's some day, I'm just not sure where they could do it, maybe shock reach? OP's idea is a good one, but honeslty I'd rather see Mages Wrath and Endless Fury be combined into 1 morph with the other morph changing into a shock spammable. Both morphs do the aoe damage and the magicka return is negligible, they could easily be combined into 1 skill to make room for something unique.
However, my hopes of that idea kinda died when they tried to make Crystal Frags a spammable by reducing the cast time, so perhaps our best bet IS with Shock Reach or Force Shock, at least then there would be a universal Shock spammable option which I think is smart to add to the game.
Compelling argument for sure. I'd forgotten about the cost reduction so it is at least in line with those spammables. I can see what you mean about the DoT instead acting as bonus damage during your upkeep cycles; it is a unique bonus for a spam skill, which is cool.
I still believe Force Pulse would make a better spammable given a single-element option for one small reason. By turning Destruction's main single-target DoT into a spammable, you are taking away a DoT from Frost users. This is especially a problem considering how essential DoTs are for doing any significant damage. It may not be a huge issue, but it's something easily avoidable with the OP's suggestion.
Nobody lost a DoT when Frost Reach was turned into a spammable. It's a better DoT than Flame or Shock Reach, because it does the same damage over time while having a bigger initial hit. It's massively overloaded as an individual skill and is only balanced by the fact that frost staff is so underwhelming otherwise.
I think the devs would have been much better off just balancing frost and shock staffs properly, but instead we keep getting nonsense like Frost Reach and the return of the Exploiter CP star.0 -
Ksariyu✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Nobody lost a DoT when Frost Reach was turned into a spammable. It's a better DoT than Flame or Shock Reach, because it does the same damage over time while having a bigger initial hit. It's massively overloaded as an individual skill and is only balanced by the fact that frost staff is so underwhelming otherwise.
I think the devs would have been much better off just balancing frost and shock staffs properly, but instead we keep getting nonsense like Frost Reach and the return of the Exploiter CP star.
If you are using Frost Reach as a spammable, you are losing it as a DoT, that's just how it works. You don't get the extra DoT damage when you keep reapplying it. I do understand that as a DoT it is quite a bit better on paper than its Flame or Shock variants, but that's not the point I'm making.
It is for sure true though that frost and shock as elements have just been relegated to "support" while flame gets exclusive access to proper damage passives, and I agree that it's something that needs to be looked at beyond just, "Here's a spammable guys, have fun."
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BloodyStigmata✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »The Master Staff is kinda nuts with it
That's what I've been using since that update dropped.
The problem is since I don't want to give up the Malestrom staff on the backbar I'm running no monster set/antiquity and just two five piece sets in addition to both arena weapons.
I'm not completely sure which staff I want to give up because I don't know which is really providing the higher DPS increase long-term.Owner and proprietor of the Northern Elsweyr Guar Reserve and The Hunting Grounds Guar Reserve, Tamriel's home to all things guar.See the embedded brochures for all information regarding our reserves, as well as our collection status!1 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BloodyStigmata wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »The Master Staff is kinda nuts with it
That's what I've been using since that update dropped.
The problem is since I don't want to give up the Malestrom staff on the backbar I'm running no monster set/antiquity and just two five piece sets in addition to both arena weapons.
I'm not completely sure which staff I want to give up because I don't know which is really providing the higher DPS increase long-term.
i'll be using master/mael,frostbite,perf whorl with no mythic or monster set.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0