Trash skills/skill aspect or attribute

Foxtrot39 · April 2022

Just making a post to see what people see as trash skill (useless, totaly outdated or way to weak) or skills that have useless attribute to them

The goal is only to point out their shortcoming making them either moslty undersirable or have attribute considered as pointless that would be better being swaped with something else

Idea on how to fix them is optional, specify the class/guild to where it come from

Nightblade

Mark target and morphs

The heal on kill aspect scale with HP which would make it more suited for tanks that don't have the damage output to "choose" when the kill happen, despite able to pull the strongest self heal burst on tooltip (mine showed upward to 40k hp on kill)

The damage buff on kill is also too short to make real use of it

Consumming darkness and moprhs

One trick pony that got completly massacred with the Elsweyr expansion, the only pros it had : damage mitigation from major protection, has become totaly irrelevent

The healing given to ally should scale with the caster's HP as this is a straight out tank ultimate

Now over expensive at 200 ult with 0 benefit to the caster, AOE too small to make the snare have any use, laughable damage that require high WP/SD to make it any relevent but need a tank to keep the mobs inside

Alliance war

Guard and morphs

Require double baring to keep the tether on bar swap, wasting a valuable skill slot, should be acting like mend wounds

Psijic order

Mend wounds and morphs

While its free heal, the heal in question feels too little for a single target one barely reaching any half decent self heal in term of numbers and is completely outshined by any AOE heal skill

Make the skill healing scale with something while keeping the current number as the lowest you can do with it

Crushing weapon (morph)

There are SO MANY source of major breach on widely used skills it feels absolutely pointless while in any group content it is abosultely pointless

Ksariyu · April 2022

Sorcerer - Dark Magic
Daedric Mines: This skill is just outclassed by and conflicts with Encase. In theory the skill would be useful for a ranged character to keep melee attackers off of them, but with it's insane cost and the existence of CC immunity, it's just useless in 95% of cases.

ESO_Nightingale · April 2022

Frozen Retreat: most people haven't ever seen let alone used the icy escape synergy.

Wild Guardian: literally worse than eternal due to piercing cold's mag damage bonus and eternal respawning itself.

Bursting Vines: doesnt heal self, very niche casted heal with a travel time and forced reposition, nerfed by 25% for no legitimate reason.

Are all legitimately useless.

SkaraMinoc · April 2022

Ksariyu wrote: »

Sorcerer - Dark Magic
Daedric Mines: This skill is just outclassed by and conflicts with Encase. In theory the skill would be useful for a ranged character to keep melee attackers off of them, but with it's insane cost and the existence of CC immunity, it's just useless in 95% of cases.

Daedric Minefield is one of the best abilities for Mag Sorc in battlegrounds, especially on Eld Angavar and Istirus Outpost Arena. They hit like a Crystal Frag, there's 5 of them, and you can cast it 4-5 times before you need to Dark Conversion. I've watched players try to dodge roll through them only to take 25k damage instantly. The root is an added bonus.

Mines are also a hard counter to Stamblades.

I've played hundreds of battlegrounds with both morphs, Daedric Minefield and Daedric Tomb. It's a very strong skill.

AcadianPaladin · April 2022

I second the worthless on Psijic mending wounds. My non-healing dual destro staff magsorc slotted it to try and keep her tank companion alive. So the tank is in a furball with the boss and her health is going down. Mending wounds would not target her because the boss is in the way. No matter the angle I took, it was way too difficult to target the spell with the boss in the way. Unslotted the skill as a fail and went back to orbs.

NordSwordnBoard · April 2022

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

Sorcerer - Dark Magic
Daedric Mines: This skill is just outclassed by and conflicts with Encase. In theory the skill would be useful for a ranged character to keep melee attackers off of them, but with it's insane cost and the existence of CC immunity, it's just useless in 95% of cases.

Daedric Minefield is one of the best abilities for Mag Sorc in battlegrounds, especially on Eld Angavar and Istirus Outpost Arena. They hit like a Crystal Frag, there's 5 of them, and you can cast it 4-5 times before you need to Dark Conversion. I've watched players try to dodge roll through them only to take 25k damage instantly. The root is an added bonus.

Mines are also a hard counter to Stamblades.

I've played hundreds of battlegrounds with both morphs, Daedric Minefield and Daedric Tomb. It's a very strong skill.

Yes mines aren't always on my bar, but they are excellent in many situations. Kiting, then flame clench the opponent into your mines is hilarious. Or casting them into a corner to stack them. Mines are so much better than encase; if your opponent is cc immune they might kill themselves speeding over your mines. Encase takes multiple tries to even work in the lag, and if the enemies are cc immune you get nothing out of casting it. Necro's empowering grasp is just as wonky to use yet does much more than encase.
When Overload gave the 3rd bar, you better believe mines were on there.

Also, Guard is fine as is. Double barring that helps prevent over use in a meta that does not need more access to tankiness.

Mushroomancer · April 2022

Guard is pretty decent for progging some of the tougher bosses in some trials. I agree however that it shouldn't need to be double-barred, like pretty much any other skill with that requirement.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Frozen Retreat: most people haven't ever seen let alone used the icy escape synergy.

Wild Guardian: literally worse than eternal due to piercing cold's mag damage bonus and eternal respawning itself.

Bursting Vines: doesnt heal self, very niche casted heal with a travel time and forced reposition, nerfed by 25% for no legitimate reason.

Are all legitimately useless.

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I second the worthless on Psijic mending wounds. My non-healing dual destro staff magsorc slotted it to try and keep her tank companion alive. So the tank is in a furball with the boss and her health is going down. Mending wounds would not target her because the boss is in the way. No matter the angle I took, it was way to difficult to target the spell with the boss in the way. Unslotted the skill as a fail and went back to orbs.

Both Vines and Mend Wounds are really nice for healing tombs in Lokke HM. It's pretty niche, but I wouldn't throw them away entirely.

Now, if there was a skill I have genuinely never, ever seen used (at least in PvE), it's the active skill for heavy armor and its morphs, I guess it's just not that useful considering resistance stacking is not that great, and you get a pretty big self-snare just by activating it.
Sturdy Horn is also something I've never seen in PvE, but maybe it has its uses in PvP, where crits hitting you are a thing you have to account for.

Hescrow · April 2022

Sorcerer

Crystal weapon from Dark Magic

It is not a Real spammable but a short buff for stamsorc who lacks fast and efficient spammable such as surprise attack or rapide strike.

Gundug · April 2022

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Now, if there was a skill I have genuinely never, ever seen used (at least in PvE), it's the active skill for heavy armor and its morphs, I guess it's just not that useful considering resistance stacking is not that great, and you get a pretty big self-snare just by activating it.

I use Immovable on certain tanks because some situations have interrupts that occur more rapidly than a resurrection can be completed making it impossible to recover from someone being downed. The CC immunity the skill grants allows that.

Foxtrot39 · April 2022

Mushroomancer wrote: »

Guard is pretty decent for progging some of the tougher bosses in some trials. I agree however that it shouldn't need to be double-barred, like pretty much any other skill with that requirement.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Frozen Retreat: most people haven't ever seen let alone used the icy escape synergy.

Wild Guardian: literally worse than eternal due to piercing cold's mag damage bonus and eternal respawning itself.

Bursting Vines: doesnt heal self, very niche casted heal with a travel time and forced reposition, nerfed by 25% for no legitimate reason.

Are all legitimately useless.

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

I second the worthless on Psijic mending wounds. My non-healing dual destro staff magsorc slotted it to try and keep her tank companion alive. So the tank is in a furball with the boss and her health is going down. Mending wounds would not target her because the boss is in the way. No matter the angle I took, it was way to difficult to target the spell with the boss in the way. Unslotted the skill as a fail and went back to orbs.

Both Vines and Mend Wounds are really nice for healing tombs in Lokke HM. It's pretty niche, but I wouldn't throw them away entirely.

Now, if there was a skill I have genuinely never, ever seen used (at least in PvE), it's the active skill for heavy armor and its morphs, I guess it's just not that useful considering resistance stacking is not that great, and you get a pretty big self-snare just by activating it.
Sturdy Horn is also something I've never seen in PvE, but maybe it has its uses in PvP, where crits hitting you are a thing you have to account for.

Heavy armor

I do use it but yes heavy armor skill giving major resolve fall in the same spot as crushing weapon : everyone has acces to its buff on large range of skills wich are already often slotted so the major resolve buff is nigh useless

Swaping the buff to a unique armor buff would help

Secondly the blocked damage bonus time is too short while the cast cost can be quite high, just 6 second of increased block mitigation for nearly 3.2k stam

Only reason to really slot it is like pointed above to have time to rez in a CC heavy fight when everyone else is downed

Beside tanks don't have issue getting good block mitigation, but with DoT which completely ignore it

lastly a tank has to move around in certain fights, especialy when its an unblockable AOE one shot mechanic using that skill with its massive snare is more a death sentence than something usefull

Mend wound

Mend wound as Nightingale pointed out is a targeting issue as body blocking lead to it being useless in trash fight or large mob breaking your LOS on the target you want to heal, I personaly just find it to be lackluster maybe change the morph bonus?

sturdy horn

Sturdy horn isn't used because PVE enemy never crit, in PVP its so much on the damage side that killing an enemy is a better way to mitigate damage rather than using sturdy horn

DrSlaughtr · April 2022

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Just making a post to see what people see as trash skill (useless, totaly outdated or way to weak) or skills that have useless attribute to them

The goal is only to point out their shortcoming making them either moslty undersirable or have attribute considered as pointless that would be better being swaped with something else

Idea on how to fix them is optional, specify the class/guild to where it come from

Nightblade

Mark target and morphs

The heal on kill aspect scale with HP which would make it more suited for tanks that don't have the damage output to "choose" when the kill happen, despite able to pull the strongest self heal burst on tooltip (mine showed upward to 40k hp on kill)

The damage buff on kill is also too short to make real use of it

Consumming darkness and moprhs

One trick pony that got completly massacred with the Elsweyr expansion, the only pros it had : damage mitigation from major protection, has become totaly irrelevent

The healing given to ally should scale with the caster's HP as this is a straight out tank ultimate

Now over expensive at 200 ult with 0 benefit to the caster, AOE too small to make the snare have any use, laughable damage that require high WP/SD to make it any relevent but need a tank to keep the mobs inside

Alliance war

Guard and morphs

Require double baring to keep the tether on bar swap, wasting a valuable skill slot, should be acting like mend wounds

Psijic order

Mend wounds and morphs

While its free heal, the heal in question feels too little for a single target one barely reaching any half decent self heal in term of numbers and is completely outshined by any AOE heal skill

Make the skill healing scale with something while keeping the current number as the lowest you can do with it

Crushing weapon (morph)

There are SO MANY source of major breach on widely used skills it feels absolutely pointless while in any group content it is abosultely pointless

From a pvp perspective, guard on only one bar would be a major pain in the butt. When someone is guarded by a good tank it's a giant pain in the butt to deal with. The only stopping everyone and their other from using it is the double bar requirement.

Foxtrot39 · April 2022

TheEndBringer wrote: »

From a pvp perspective, guard on only one bar would be a major pain in the butt. When someone is guarded by a good tank it's a giant pain in the butt to deal with. The only stopping everyone and their other from using it is the double bar requirement.

Considering that tanking in PVP is a DD with plenty of self heal and ressource regen while tank sacrifice regen and max ressource cap for armor and health

Wich is completely bypassed by the DOT meta that ignore armor and block

I doubt its broken

You can only tether one target, and it break when loosing LOS, forcing the tethered person to remain mobile only in a 15m radius of the tank

They should test that in the PTS because otherwise simply no one ever slot that skill in the first place in PVP, never seen it once in either cyro or BG beside me as everything gravitate towards damage only

When mentoring in PVE/PVP you're forcing yourself to use a one bar build or waste a slot for the exact same skill

DrSlaughtr · April 2022

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

From a pvp perspective, guard on only one bar would be a major pain in the butt. When someone is guarded by a good tank it's a giant pain in the butt to deal with. The only stopping everyone and their other from using it is the double bar requirement.

Considering that tanking in PVP is a DD with plenty of self heal and ressource regen while tank sacrifice regen and max ressource cap for armor and health

Wich is completely bypassed by the DOT meta that ignore armor and block

I doubt its broken

You can only tether one target, and it break when loosing LOS, forcing the tethered person to remain mobile only in a 15m radius of the tank

They should test that in the PTS because otherwise simply no one ever slot that skill in the first place in PVP, never seen it once in either cyro or BG beside me as everything gravitate towards damage only

When mentoring in PVE/PVP you're forcing yourself to use a one bar build or waste a slot for the exact same skill

Let me address all your points.

1. No, there are actual tanks in Cyrodiil and they are very effective at what they do. Blocking pin flips. Burning all your siege. Distracting all the non disciplined players, giving time for allies to arrive and wipe everyone else.

There's a difference between a 30k magDK and a 45k Necro Tank that can eat all the damage you throw at it and more.

The reason why you don't see more pvp tanks is the same reason PvE tanks are in high demand. Most people want to do damage.

2. Then you have healers who may only have 30k health but healing is so ridiculously overtuned right now they essentially function as tanks.

3. If either of these guards a big DD, like an EMP or just an absolute bad a**, that's enough to wipe 12+. You can't kill the person being guarded because of guard and you can't kill the person guarding because you're getting wiped by that [snip] DD.

4. This is why you have to double bar it. It's incredibly potent in pvp. Being that strong should require sacrifice.

5. As you pointed out, below actual tanks are tanky DDs. Imagine 6 MagDKs with tethers between them all rolling into a battle. It would be a nightmare and players would absolutely do this.

[edited for profanity]

Lailaamell · April 2022

Most of vampire skills is pretty much broken.

Foxtrot39 · April 2022

Lailaamell wrote: »

Most of vampire skills is pretty much broken.

The main problem with vamp are some bonus and the fact any non vamp skill cost increase to get acces to them on top of loosing on health regen

Imho the issue is the entire design of vamp

YandereGirlfriend · April 2022

I used to see group tethers pretty frequently in Ravenwatch but then they fixed the double mitigation bug from the skill and it is SUPER rare to see it now.

Double-barring it is whatever but can we please talk about the morph that gives you Minor Force? Like, what purpose does this serve? The other morph gives the rare Minor Vitality buff but in what world is anyone using tether to source their Minor Force when it is available on so many other, better skills/sets/etc. That morph in particular needs a re-working - something like Minor Evasion would make much better sense.