"We’ll consider additional ways to keep Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds interesting"

Photosniper89 · April 2022

Where are we at with adding new ways to keep Cyrodiil interesting?

At the start of 2022 there was this massive post about how we would be adding new ideas/ways to make the PvP experience exciting - since that post it's been nothing but radio silence from the team (just going through the thread you'll see page after page of frustration/anger and not a word from anyone with ZOS).

Photosniper89 · April 2022

The PvP update post was posted in General, why bas this thread moved to be buried in PvP (where pretty much no one goes to)?

katanagirl1 · April 2022

I don’t need Cyrodiil to be “more interesting”, I’d just like my skills to work when I press a button and my bar swaps to work.

That isn’t happening now.

Anything else would be icing on the cake but right now I don’t have any cake.

xFocused · April 2022

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t need Cyrodiil to be “more interesting”, I’d just like my skills to work when I press a button and my bar swaps to work.

That isn’t happening now.

Anything else would be icing on the cake but right now I don’t have any cake.

Yep. I don't need new or more interesting mechanics. I need to be able to mount when I'm not in combat, not randomly freeze or bluescreen during large scale fights, have my skills actually work, be able to bar swap effectively, pop a potion when I need to and not have to hit the X button on my PlayStation controller 5 times to get into a keep

starlizard70ub17_ESO · April 2022

Cryodiil hasn't been "interesting" for years now, and I don't need it to start trying to be now. At this point I don't even care about balanced sets or skills anymore. Just fix the lag, interrupts and crashes.

I'm mainly in Cryodiil for the comic relief found in AD zone chat anyway.

Wolfpaw · April 2022

In Cyrodiil every night, & still having a great time. Performance is fair/good next gen, but looking forward to more improvements.

I'm hoping to see more ways ZOS can monetize (not p2w) Cyrodiil, money flows in and a greater appreciation/time/resources can be devoted to this content.

1. A battle pass of sorts w/rewards through PvP activities, not just AP PvE door gains.
2. Allow dungeon dlc sets/monster to be gained through PvP, unlocked after purchase of dlc.
3. An introductory zone/PvP hub similar to GW2 Heart of the Mists.
4. Updated Golden Vendor - no more silly rng weekends.
5. New resurrection animations, siege skins, battle spirit skill line.
6. Change how keeps upgrade from resources (GW2), have players escort resources to keep - help spread player base on map.
7. One mount speed in Cyrodiil.
8. Update Crown tools ex. crown/role icons organize group.
9. Guild mounts! Choose mount type>guild colors>Crest
10. Mount in combat, 15sec cast.
11. Particle density controls

A few things in my head, @ZOS_RichLambert 🙏

xylena_lazarow · April 2022

Their recent attempts at "interesting" have given us Volendrung and Dark Convergence, both of which are... polarizing at best, but just about anything that breaks up a very uninteresting tank-heal-stall meta would be fine with me.

Photosniper89 · April 2022

Wolfpaw wrote: »

In Cyrodiil every night, & still having a great time. Performance is fair/good next gen, but looking forward to more improvements.

I'm hoping to see more ways ZOS can monetize (not p2w) Cyrodiil, money flows in and a greater appreciation/time/resources can be devoted to this content.

1. A battle pass of sorts w/rewards through PvP activities, not just AP PvE door gains.
2. Allow dungeon dlc sets/monster to be gained through PvP, unlocked after purchase of dlc.
3. An introductory zone/PvP hub similar to GW2 Heart of the Mists.
4. Updated Golden Vendor - no more silly rng weekends.
5. New resurrection animations, siege skins, battle spirit skill line.
6. Change how keeps upgrade from resources (GW2), have players escort resources to keep - help spread player base on map.
7. One mount speed in Cyrodiil.
8. Update Crown tools ex. crown/role icons organize group.
9. Guild mounts! Choose mount type>guild colors>Crest
10. Mount in combat, 15sec cast.
11. Particle density controls

A few things in my head, @ZOS_RichLambert 🙏

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game. I've literally spent thousands of USD on this game (5+ years sub'ed, hundreds and hundreds of crown crates bought, hundreds of thousands of crowns purchased, ect.) and am in PvP every single night. They don't need to monetize PvP for "added focus" or "resources". They make enough money.. they have the resources... but do they genuinely care about PvP - I think many would argue they do not (I'll let you answer that question for yourself).

EdmondDontes · April 2022

What would the results be if we were to make a poll asking "Do you still trust ZOS enough to believe they are honest with the player base?"

But we all know how that would go; sideways on several levels because that is the core problem here now days, hands down. The player base can no longer trust the company to be honest with us. And in hindsight, it certainly appears that we never could.

At a certain point you have to ignore words and make judgments solely based upon actions and results.

Now it does appear that here recently they may actually be working on some performance improvements, but to have any faith it's actually happening you have to still have trust after five years of empty promises. As note to ZOS, that is a tough row to hoe my friends. Given the last 5 years of empty promises there is no reason to believe anything promised until we see consistent results that match the stated commitments.

Tommy_The_Gun · April 2022

Last time ZOS wanted to make Cyrodiil more interesting, they added hammer...

EdmondDontes · April 2022

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I don’t need Cyrodiil to be “more interesting”, I’d just like my skills to work when I press a button and my bar swaps to work.

That isn’t happening now.

Anything else would be icing on the cake but right now I don’t have any cake.

Thank you for the laugh, for those that know the reference, even if the reference was accidental.

It was originally Marie-Antoinette who said "let them eat cake", but it's amazing how much that fits the business model ZOS has been hitting us with for years. It really is a nearly perfectly accurate comparison.

If you aren't familiar with the reference, please do a quick google for it. You'll see.

Gaeliannas · April 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

What would the results be if we were to make a poll asking "Do you still trust ZOS enough to believe they are honest with the player base?"

But we all know how that would go; sideways on several levels because that is the core problem here now days, hands down. The player base can no longer trust the company to be honest with us. And in hindsight, it certainly appears that we never could.

At a certain point you have to ignore words and make judgments solely based upon actions and results.

Now it does appear that here recently they may actually be working on some performance improvements, but to have any faith it's actually happening you have to still have trust after five years of empty promises. As note to ZOS, that is a tough row to hoe my friends. Given the last 5 years of empty promises there is no reason to believe anything promised until we see consistent results that match the stated commitments.

Quite sadly, I suspect that poll would go 70/30 in favor of those trusting ZOS. This is not your normal MMO playerbase here. A lot of that has to do with the whole enamored with the lore folks, and then there are the players they actually market to, the super casual person with a bit of disposable income, that will never notice most of the glaring issues, because they do not stick around long enough to engage in the content in which it exists. As long as overland and delves continue to work fine, most folks are happy to spend a some months here, buy a few crowns and move on.

It takes a mess of massive scale to affect those folks, like not letting them login to earn their event tickets.
<glances at Steam charts>

Amottica · April 2022

Photosniper89 wrote: »

The PvP update post was posted in General, why bas this thread moved to be buried in PvP (where pretty much no one goes to)?

It is PvP related and we are seeing the thread in the PvP section.

newtinmpls · April 2022

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

Amottica · April 2022

newtinmpls wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

I agree but think the better example is pretty much the monetization of the game leans heavily towards PvE while PvP itself requires nothing beyond the initial payment for the game. To get gear a player can subscribe for just one month and does not need to buy any DLCs. Hence, someone who is pretty much here just for the PvP has less need to spend money here which directly translates to less revenue for them.

So yes, some PvP players (who do not like PvE) will spend some money but they are not going to be a significant source is revenue. The proof of this is how little is developed for PvP vs PvE and that says it all.

xDeusEJRx · April 2022

Lots of people took that at face value, I think that was just a one-off comment by ZOS that literally meant nothing, like always. I never expected them to follow up on it considering how they explicitly said they had "no intentions to change both BG's and Cyrodiil" at all

Photosniper89 · April 2022

newtinmpls wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

This makes the assumption that people who are PVP'ers do not play PvE... which is incorrect.

Photosniper89 · April 2022

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Lots of people took that at face value, I think that was just a one-off comment by ZOS that literally meant nothing, like always. I never expected them to follow up on it considering how they explicitly said they had "no intentions to change both BG's and Cyrodiil" at all

You right.. shame on me for thinking maybe this time was different. Fool me once.

hafgood · April 2022

Amottica wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

I agree but think the better example is pretty much the monetization of the game leans heavily towards PvE while PvP itself requires nothing beyond the initial payment for the game. To get gear a player can subscribe for just one month and does not need to buy any DLCs. Hence, someone who is pretty much here just for the PvP has less need to spend money here which directly translates to less revenue for them.

So yes, some PvP players (who do not like PvE) will spend some money but they are not going to be a significant source is revenue. The proof of this is how little is developed for PvP vs PvE and that says it all.

You don't PvP do you? Because if you did you would know how false your statement is. A sun for one month will not get all the sets that a PvPer may want to try, won't enable them to get all the mythics they want to try.

And whilst some are exclusive to PvP many are not and do both PvP and PvE, and lots do housing. So please, stop with the myth that PvP does not bring money into the game it does.

EdmondDontes · April 2022

Amottica wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

I agree but think the better example is pretty much the monetization of the game leans heavily towards PvE while PvP itself requires nothing beyond the initial payment for the game. To get gear a player can subscribe for just one month and does not need to buy any DLCs. Hence, someone who is pretty much here just for the PvP has less need to spend money here which directly translates to less revenue for them.

So yes, some PvP players (who do not like PvE) will spend some money but they are not going to be a significant source is revenue. The proof of this is how little is developed for PvP vs PvE and that says it all.

This opinion is not accurate. To compete in PvP you have to do more PvE than most PvE exclusive players participate in. The strongest gear comes with new content releases, and every player who's been in Cyrodiil regularly for more than a few years has spent thousands on the game over the years; far more than a PvE player must spend.

The end game PvP players have all the shiniest mounts and most of the costumes and other crown store shinies.

It's not factually accurate even in the slightest to claim that PvP players don't financially support the game.

I'm about to tell you why the focus is shifting so radically to PvE.

Server lease costs to support large groups of high action per second players costs a lot of money. It's a recurring cost that never goes away. Server leases are the primary recurring expenses for MMO's, and ZOS is not willing to pay what it takes for the needed processing power to support PvP. It's a financial decision they make that has nothing what so ever to do with any PvE vs. PvP player debate or which category of player spends more money on the game. It's purely financial. They minimize their financial investment into the game in every way possible. PvP populations are highly volatile as well. So during peak use times PvP needs 2x or 3x the processing power of low player population times. You can't lease extra server capacity just for peak playing times and then reduce your lease hour by hour as the player population ebbs and flows. PvP performance is horrible because it costs too much to lease the server capacity to support it (according to the financial department, not the devs). The "bean counters" at ZOS don't like PvP. The server lease costs too much to make cyrodiil stable at all times. That's why PvP suffers and the PvP content continually gets removed piece by piece and replaced with reworked and reskinned PvE content. ....and this is why PvP players have endured so many "tests" to see if they can improve performance without increasing server lease costs.

newtinmpls · April 2022

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

newtinmpls wrote: »

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

Photosniper89 wrote: »

This makes the assumption that people who are PVP'ers do not play PvE... which is incorrect.

No, it doesn't

It makes the assumption that the parts of the game that are most heavily (and frankly most easily) monetized, currently, are more associated with PvE than PvP.

I put forth the supposition that whatever parts of the game are monetized successfully will be expanded, or related stuff will be offered.

IF for example, the house that has been mentioned a couple times as having a sort of "mini battlegrounds" sold like crazy, then probably other such houses would have been created and offered for sale.

Amottica · April 2022

hafgood wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

I agree but think the better example is pretty much the monetization of the game leans heavily towards PvE while PvP itself requires nothing beyond the initial payment for the game. To get gear a player can subscribe for just one month and does not need to buy any DLCs. Hence, someone who is pretty much here just for the PvP has less need to spend money here which directly translates to less revenue for them.

So yes, some PvP players (who do not like PvE) will spend some money but they are not going to be a significant source is revenue. The proof of this is how little is developed for PvP vs PvE and that says it all.

You don't PvP do you? Because if you did you would know how false your statement is. A sun for one month will not get all the sets that a PvPer may want to try, won't enable them to get all the mythics they want to try.

And whilst some are exclusive to PvP many are not and do both PvP and PvE, and lots do housing. So please, stop with the myth that PvP does not bring money into the game it does.

What? I do not PvP because some people are not able to farm a set of gear in a month? I fail to see how that correlates that somehow I do not PvP. I have been doing PvP for well over a decade and started playing MMOs for PvP and before that via single-player combat games that had a queue for something like a battle royale, tyvm.

Also, I have farmed multiple sets and mythic within a month. It can easily be done and is done. No need to farm every mythic as many are not worth it, but again, get what you want and then go on without the sub until the next set of interesting gear or mythic drops.

EdmondDontes · April 2022

Amottica wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

I agree but think the better example is pretty much the monetization of the game leans heavily towards PvE while PvP itself requires nothing beyond the initial payment for the game. To get gear a player can subscribe for just one month and does not need to buy any DLCs. Hence, someone who is pretty much here just for the PvP has less need to spend money here which directly translates to less revenue for them.

So yes, some PvP players (who do not like PvE) will spend some money but they are not going to be a significant source is revenue. The proof of this is how little is developed for PvP vs PvE and that says it all.

You don't PvP do you? Because if you did you would know how false your statement is. A sun for one month will not get all the sets that a PvPer may want to try, won't enable them to get all the mythics they want to try.

And whilst some are exclusive to PvP many are not and do both PvP and PvE, and lots do housing. So please, stop with the myth that PvP does not bring money into the game it does.

What? I do not PvP because some people are not able to farm a set of gear in a month? I fail to see how that correlates that somehow I do not PvP. I have been doing PvP for well over a decade and started playing MMOs for PvP and before that via single-player combat games that had a queue for something like a battle royale, tyvm.

Also, I have farmed multiple sets and mythic within a month. It can easily be done and is done. No need to farm every mythic as many are not worth it, but again, get what you want and then go on without the sub until the next set of interesting gear or mythic drops.

....and you can't farm any new gear, mythic or otherwise, without buying every new content release if you want to keep up in PvP. PvP is all the PvE plus a ton more time and money in almost all cases. PvP is the end game activity. That or progression trials, which is equally hard on servers.

Amottica · April 2022

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

I agree but think the better example is pretty much the monetization of the game leans heavily towards PvE while PvP itself requires nothing beyond the initial payment for the game. To get gear a player can subscribe for just one month and does not need to buy any DLCs. Hence, someone who is pretty much here just for the PvP has less need to spend money here which directly translates to less revenue for them.

So yes, some PvP players (who do not like PvE) will spend some money but they are not going to be a significant source is revenue. The proof of this is how little is developed for PvP vs PvE and that says it all.

You don't PvP do you? Because if you did you would know how false your statement is. A sun for one month will not get all the sets that a PvPer may want to try, won't enable them to get all the mythics they want to try.

And whilst some are exclusive to PvP many are not and do both PvP and PvE, and lots do housing. So please, stop with the myth that PvP does not bring money into the game it does.

What? I do not PvP because some people are not able to farm a set of gear in a month? I fail to see how that correlates that somehow I do not PvP. I have been doing PvP for well over a decade and started playing MMOs for PvP and before that via single-player combat games that had a queue for something like a battle royale, tyvm.

Also, I have farmed multiple sets and mythic within a month. It can easily be done and is done. No need to farm every mythic as many are not worth it, but again, get what you want and then go on without the sub until the next set of interesting gear or mythic drops.

....and you can't farm any new gear, mythic or otherwise, without buying every new content release if you want to keep up in PvP. PvP is all the PvE plus a ton more time and money in almost all cases. PvP is the end game activity. That or progression trials, which is equally hard on servers.

No, not at all. The only content release that somewhat needs to be purchased is a chapter or wait a year for it to become a DLC. A subscription, which can be as short as a month, gives access to all areas of the game except the most recent chapter. There is zero reason to continuously subscribe for anyone who is only interested in PvP.

Also, PVP is hardly the end game since it does not require being at end game. Veteran raids and dungeons are clearly the true end game and part of the biggest focus and money drivers of the game. This game is and has always been a PvE-focused game with PvP being very much secondary by design.

EdmondDontes · April 2022

Amottica wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

hafgood wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Photosniper89 wrote: »

It's a myth PvP players don't bring money into the game.

That is not quite the "myth"

The point is that there are many things that can be purchased, and many of them are aimed at types of players:

Housing peeps
Costume/appearance peeps
Mount/pet peeps

NONE of these is inherently associated with PvP, so it's "PvP" that is not monetized

I agree but think the better example is pretty much the monetization of the game leans heavily towards PvE while PvP itself requires nothing beyond the initial payment for the game. To get gear a player can subscribe for just one month and does not need to buy any DLCs. Hence, someone who is pretty much here just for the PvP has less need to spend money here which directly translates to less revenue for them.

So yes, some PvP players (who do not like PvE) will spend some money but they are not going to be a significant source is revenue. The proof of this is how little is developed for PvP vs PvE and that says it all.

You don't PvP do you? Because if you did you would know how false your statement is. A sun for one month will not get all the sets that a PvPer may want to try, won't enable them to get all the mythics they want to try.

And whilst some are exclusive to PvP many are not and do both PvP and PvE, and lots do housing. So please, stop with the myth that PvP does not bring money into the game it does.

What? I do not PvP because some people are not able to farm a set of gear in a month? I fail to see how that correlates that somehow I do not PvP. I have been doing PvP for well over a decade and started playing MMOs for PvP and before that via single-player combat games that had a queue for something like a battle royale, tyvm.

Also, I have farmed multiple sets and mythic within a month. It can easily be done and is done. No need to farm every mythic as many are not worth it, but again, get what you want and then go on without the sub until the next set of interesting gear or mythic drops.

....and you can't farm any new gear, mythic or otherwise, without buying every new content release if you want to keep up in PvP. PvP is all the PvE plus a ton more time and money in almost all cases. PvP is the end game activity. That or progression trials, which is equally hard on servers.

No, not at all. The only content release that somewhat needs to be purchased is a chapter or wait a year for it to become a DLC. A subscription, which can be as short as a month, gives access to all areas of the game except the most recent chapter. There is zero reason to continuously subscribe for anyone who is only interested in PvP.

Also, PVP is hardly the end game since it does not require being at end game. Veteran raids and dungeons are clearly the true end game and part of the biggest focus and money drivers of the game. This game is and has always been a PvE-focused game with PvP being very much secondary by design.

You are making it abundantly clear that you do not PvP on any kind of regular basis. You are just making closeted and factually inaccurate arguments for ZOS to continue to promote PvE and ignore PvP.

PvP has ALWAYS been the end game in ESO. It has ALWAYS been advertised as such, and that's what it is. The three banners war (cyrodiil) has ALWAYS been advertised as the end game.

You're just trying to argue that ESO doesn't even need PvP because that's your personal preference. The video game term for this is "toxic casual". That means a casual player that wants the game to be more focused on the easier content they are interested in and argue against any investments into end game content because it doesn't matter to them.

....and you absolutely DO have to buy the new content to get access to the new gear. If you haven't purchased blackwood or greymore you can't even scry or go to their associated zones with a mere ESO+ sub. You aren't even presenting fact based examples to support your assertions.

UntouchableHunter · April 2022

ESO it is in a good spot of pvp content.

WE JUST WANT A PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENT.

This will be the most interesting thing that can happen in pvp.