Official Discussion Thread for "Update 33 Preview- Account-Wide Achievements and More"

Danel_Vadan · February 2022

AWA just might make me want to play again for more than endeavors and writs.

deleted221106-002999 · February 2022

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Christerra wrote: »

Personally, I'm really happy with this upcoming update. I am curious to know if skyshards will be part of the account-wide achievements. Fingers crossed that they are! No more running around getting skyshards on thirty-four toons would be amazing!

Of course they're not, if they were there'd be no reason for anyone to buy them for their alts in the Crown Store. Seemingly, the only achievements that impact on database performance are those not involving the Crown Store.

Actually, the specific example they used was of a skyshard achievement.

You just won't get the actual skyshards. And you'll have a harder time figuring out which ones you still need.

Which makes the crown store solution for borg drone seven-of-eighteen unsurprisingly more attractive.

deleted221106-002999 · February 2022

Danel_Vadan wrote: »

AWA just might make me want to play again for more than endeavors and writs.

Ironically, the crafting dailies are the only reason for me to log in without retention of character-specific achievements; just zero incentive to replay content with account-wide only.

Kesstryl · February 2022

Danel_Vadan wrote: »

AWA just might make me want to play again for more than endeavors and writs.

Glad you get to keep enjoying the game as the game world around alts becomes an incoherent mess for me to lose my enjoyment. You know, most of us against this change were never against AwA, we are only against the way it's implemented. We wanted AwA to be included along with our character based achievements, like WoW, GW2, and other triple AAA MMORPGs have. We were never against what you wanted. Many pro-AwA people actually flipped and decided they didn't want this version once they looked into what we've been complaining about on PTS. I wish everyone would just look at what they're giving, and what they're taking away to give it, and realize the way this is being done is really bad for the health of the game. I really don't think people understand how broken the game is right now on PTS. They just hear things third party and make assumptions. If they knew how much of a mess it was in its glorious detail, everyone could be united in requesting that they figure out a way to give AwA without ripping the soul out our characters and destroying the coherence of the game world around them.

Hymzir · February 2022

So here's my perspective to this thing: I don't give a rat's ass about Achievements. To me they are a non issue, a pointless and artificial "goal" to chase. They are about as interesting as a challenge of "Can you do X thing under Y minutes while blindfolded, standing on your head and yodelling the national anthem of Australia?" The answer is, and always has been, yes, yes you can. As long as you spend enough time and effort on practising it. The real question, for me at least, is it really worth the time and effort? That's just me though. I got no beef with them as such. I just mostly ignore them.

As such, this whole thing seemed irrelevant to me. I didn't have a horse in the race, so no point in muddying the waters with my thoughts. A clear case of whatever, not interested, doesn't concern me.

I was wrong.

What I do care about, is narrative cohesion. And this thing is implemented in such a stupid way that it totally wrecks the single most important thing in the game for me.

A character who has not cleared the main quest, saved Morrowind, explored Elsweyr or any of the other gazillion things to do in the game, should not be treated by the NPCs as if they had done that. And now I learn that, in addition to that, there is some content that is only doable once per account - Like the chatting with Verandis - that is utterly unacceptable.

In fact, I started doing content from new Chapters on alts for the very reasons that they had not "saved Tamriel and kicked Molags balls." It seemed utterly inane and banal to me, that my main, the fellow who did all that, would be doing any of the nonsense that the new zones have you go through. He's got better and more important things to do. And furthermore, most of the actual dialogue in the game is written from the point of view of new characters. For example, you come to Summerset for the first time, and you will be treated as some useful rando who stumbled on the mess, and not as the legendary hero who negotiated a ceasefire for the three banner war, and then led a coalition to Oblivion itself to stop the Planemeld.

There is a huge narrative dissonance when some low thug underling, not really even worthy of being called Mid-Boss(Cookies for you, if you get the reference.), is going about with confidence and bravado on how they are gonna trash my character. When they should know that I've slayed Dragons and spanked Daedric Princes. They should be running to the hills screaming instead of going all: "I's gonna cut ya!"

Doing new chapters with a character that had not yet seen it all and done it all, made so much more narrative sense. After this change, you will still be treated as some random nobody by the plot lines, with everyone involved unsure as to whether you are up to the task, but all the passers by will hail you as this almost mythic hero who has several legendary deeds under their belt And all you, the player, can do about this, is to scream at the screen: "No, no no. That's not me, that's the other guy!"

So yeah... Guess this is it. I was actually sort of somewhat optimistic about the coming chapter, since it was for once not about some cosmic calamity of stupendous proportions, and the idea of a high medieval zone of chivalry and adventure seemed interesting. I still haven't finished Elsweyr, or Greymoor, or even really started Blackwood since I was utterly put off by their silly "Treachery and doom! The baddies would unleash a great evil!! Tamriel is in peril!!!" sort of vibe. (Extra cookies with chocolate chips for you, if you get that reference - and googling it wont count.)

I was actually kinda thinking of doing High Isle with my breton warden who hasn't really done anything signifiant or particularly noteworthy during her career so far. A return to roots and making a name for herself sort of experience. Maybe getting a house there and stuff. But with these inane changes going forth, she too will now strut of the boat as the legendary hero of Tamriel, the Saviour of Morrowind, the Slayer of Dragons and who knows what other garbage she's never even seen or heard in her life.

Good grief. Guess this is the final nail on the coffin. So happy I stayed my hand, and did not pre-order or do anything stupid like that.

I just... I just don't see any point in continuing with this thing. It just isn't an RPG any more. I mean, it was gonna come eventually, the point where I hanged my cloak on the wall for good, and went on to do other things. I just didn't see it coming this way.

- sigh -

Hope Starfeld isn't a complete dud, like so many other things have been in recent years. And like ESO is hell-bent on becoming.

alberichtano · February 2022

Hymzir wrote: »

So here's my perspective to this thing: I don't give a rat's ass about Achievements. To me they are a non issue, a pointless and artificial "goal" to chase. They are about as interesting as a challenge of "Can you do X thing under Y minutes while blindfolded, standing on your head and yodelling the national anthem of Australia?" The answer is, and always has been, yes, yes you can. As long as you spend enough time and effort on practising it. The real question, for me at least, is it really worth the time and effort? That's just me though. I got no beef with them as such. I just mostly ignore them.

As such, this whole thing seemed irrelevant to me. I didn't have a horse in the race, so no point in muddying the waters with my thoughts. A clear case of whatever, not interested, doesn't concern me.

I was wrong.

What I do care about, is narrative cohesion. And this thing is implemented in such a stupid way that it totally wrecks the single most important thing in the game for me.

A character who has not cleared the main quest, saved Morrowind, explored Elsweyr or any of the other gazillion things to do in the game, should not be treated by the NPCs as if they had done that. And now I learn that, in addition to that, there is some content that is only doable once per account - Like the chatting with Verandis - that is utterly unacceptable.

In fact, I started doing content from new Chapters on alts for the very reasons that they had not "saved Tamriel and kicked Molags balls." It seemed utterly inane and banal to me, that my main, the fellow who did all that, would be doing any of the nonsense that the new zones have you go through. He's got better and more important things to do. And furthermore, most of the actual dialogue in the game is written from the point of view of new characters. For example, you come to Summerset for the first time, and you will be treated as some useful rando who stumbled on the mess, and not as the legendary hero who negotiated a ceasefire for the three banner war, and then led a coalition to Oblivion itself to stop the Planemeld.

There is a huge narrative dissonance when some low thug underling, not really even worthy of being called Mid-Boss(Cookies for you, if you get the reference.), is going about with confidence and bravado on how they are gonna trash my character. When they should know that I've slayed Dragons and spanked Daedric Princes. They should be running to the hills screaming instead of going all: "I's gonna cut ya!"

Doing new chapters with a character that had not yet seen it all and done it all, made so much more narrative sense. After this change, you will still be treated as some random nobody by the plot lines, with everyone involved unsure as to whether you are up to the task, but all the passers by will hail you as this almost mythic hero who has several legendary deeds under their belt And all you, the player, can do about this, is to scream at the screen: "No, no no. That's not me, that's the other guy!"

So yeah... Guess this is it. I was actually sort of somewhat optimistic about the coming chapter, since it was for once not about some cosmic calamity of stupendous proportions, and the idea of a high medieval zone of chivalry and adventure seemed interesting. I still haven't finished Elsweyr, or Greymoor, or even really started Blackwood since I was utterly put off by their silly "Treachery and doom! The baddies would unleash a great evil!! Tamriel is in peril!!!" sort of vibe. (Extra cookies with chocolate chips for you, if you get that reference - and googling it wont count.)

I was actually kinda thinking of doing High Isle with my breton warden who hasn't really done anything signifiant or particularly noteworthy during her career so far. A return to roots and making a name for herself sort of experience. Maybe getting a house there and stuff. But with these inane changes going forth, she too will now strut of the boat as the legendary hero of Tamriel, the Saviour of Morrowind, the Slayer of Dragons and who knows what other garbage she's never even seen or heard in her life.

Good grief. Guess this is the final nail on the coffin. So happy I stayed my hand, and did not pre-order or do anything stupid like that.

I just... I just don't see any point in continuing with this thing. It just isn't an RPG any more. I mean, it was gonna come eventually, the point where I hanged my cloak on the wall for good, and went on to do other things. I just didn't see it coming this way.

- sigh -

Hope Starfeld isn't a complete dud, like so many other things have been in recent years. And like ESO is hell-bent on becoming.

Let's just say that after what I have heard from Fallout 76, and what is happening here, I am not exactly gonna fight to be first in line for Starfield. I will wait and hear what people have to say about it before even considering buying it, at this point.

The issues you mentioned are, as far as I know a rather universal problem for MMOs. I have seen similar things on LOTRO, where, after defeating a great danger in Angmar, you are met in Moria with "please clean up that poop"-quests (and no, I am not exagerating). Because the devs cannot say in which order you will be doing quests, and making NPC responses for all possible variations, especielly when new content comes after the one you just finished, would mean a crazy amount of voice-acting. Which of course costs money and resources. So there we are. It is the downside with MMOs (well, one of them anyways) as RPGs.

dzugarueb17_ESO · February 2022

alberichtano wrote: »

The issues you mentioned are, as far as I know a rather universal problem for MMOs.

What are you even talking about? For 8 years this MMO game worked fine - you create a new char - you get access to practically all content in the game. There are things you cannot repeat like being level 123CP, but all the interactions, the stories, NPCs were there. Now, on PTS we see pieces of content we can see only once per account lifetime.

Can you imagine starting a new game in TES Skyrim now and getting missing quests because you've already done some of them three years ago? I can't imagine this is possible, this is some nightmare Sheogorath reality or something.

I'm a gamedev programmer myself and I can't imagine working on a game that can do this - you start a new game and a bunch of content is broken, not replayable by design.

They have to unlink NPC interactions and quests from achievements before live, if it's not done I will really assume I live in some sort of alternate reality, where gamedev truly died for good.

Kesstryl · March 2022

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

The issues you mentioned are, as far as I know a rather universal problem for MMOs.

What are you even talking about? For 8 years this MMO game worked fine - you create a new char - you get access to practically all content in the game. There are things you cannot repeat like being level 123CP, but all the interactions, the stories, NPCs were there. Now, on PTS we see pieces of content we can see only once per account lifetime.

Can you imagine starting a new game in TES Skyrim now and getting missing quests because you've already done some of them three years ago? I can't imagine this is possible, this is some nightmare Sheogorath reality or something.

I'm a gamedev programmer myself and I can't imagine working on a game that can do this - you start a new game and a bunch of content is broken, not replayable by design.

They have to unlink NPC interactions and quests from achievements before live, if it's not done I will really assume I live in some sort of alternate reality, where gamedev truly died for good.

Judging by today's PTS patch notes, which is the very last one until release, and no mention of these broken things, your going to wake up in Sheogorath's reality in a couple weeks.

Tandor · March 2022

Kesstryl wrote: »

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

The issues you mentioned are, as far as I know a rather universal problem for MMOs.

What are you even talking about? For 8 years this MMO game worked fine - you create a new char - you get access to practically all content in the game. There are things you cannot repeat like being level 123CP, but all the interactions, the stories, NPCs were there. Now, on PTS we see pieces of content we can see only once per account lifetime.

Can you imagine starting a new game in TES Skyrim now and getting missing quests because you've already done some of them three years ago? I can't imagine this is possible, this is some nightmare Sheogorath reality or something.

I'm a gamedev programmer myself and I can't imagine working on a game that can do this - you start a new game and a bunch of content is broken, not replayable by design.

They have to unlink NPC interactions and quests from achievements before live, if it's not done I will really assume I live in some sort of alternate reality, where gamedev truly died for good.

Judging by today's PTS patch notes, which is the very last one until release, and no mention of these broken things, your going to wake up in Sheogorath's reality in a couple weeks.

Agreed. It'll be interesting to see whether ZOS step up their engagement at that time or just let all the Live players wallow in their confusion. At the very least it's high time they announced whether what the players consider to be a broken implementation of account-wide achievements in terms of quests, NPC dialogues and zone maps/guides is now working as intended, full of unintended consequences that they're content to leave alone, or broken in ways they are actively intending to fix. Their continued silence on this is both incredibly mystifying and disappointing.

alberichtano · March 2022

dzugarueb17_ESO wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

The issues you mentioned are, as far as I know a rather universal problem for MMOs.

What are you even talking about? For 8 years this MMO game worked fine - you create a new char - you get access to practically all content in the game. There are things you cannot repeat like being level 123CP, but all the interactions, the stories, NPCs were there. Now, on PTS we see pieces of content we can see only once per account lifetime.

Can you imagine starting a new game in TES Skyrim now and getting missing quests because you've already done some of them three years ago? I can't imagine this is possible, this is some nightmare Sheogorath reality or something.

I'm a gamedev programmer myself and I can't imagine working on a game that can do this - you start a new game and a bunch of content is broken, not replayable by design.

They have to unlink NPC interactions and quests from achievements before live, if it's not done I will really assume I live in some sort of alternate reality, where gamedev truly died for good.

A misunderstanding here. I was referring to a specific part of the post I responded to, namely:

"There is a huge narrative dissonance when some low thug underling, not really even worthy of being called Mid-Boss(Cookies for you, if you get the reference.), is going about with confidence and bravado on how they are gonna trash my character. When they should know that I've slayed Dragons and spanked Daedric Princes. They should be running to the hills screaming instead of going all: "I's gonna cut ya!""

I thought the rest of my answer pointed to that, but alas I wasn't clear enough.

kargen27 · March 2022

redspecter23 wrote: »

Comrade_Ogilvy wrote: »

Thanks for robbing me of individual character journalling, history and development. Thanks for robbing me of extra character slots bought. Thanks for asking for feedback and then ignoring 60+ pages of it.

Congratulations on wrecking elder scrolls replayability; going to be very interesting to see the reactions of players currently unaware of this when it goes live, complete with bugs.

Not impressed.

To offer an alternative,

Thank you ZOS for creating situations where I'm encouraged to play my alts rather than just play my main. Thank you for adding account wide journalling, history and development. Thanks for giving me more opportunities to use the extra character slots I've bought as I'm not "locked" into my main anymore. Thank you for asking for feedback and beginning to implement some fixes to issues such as museum progress.

Congratulations for reinvigorating my replayability.

Very impressed.

I thought it would be important to note that while there are quite a few that are upset at the changes, there are also those that support them, though we may be drowned out in the crowd.

I could play my alternate characters before the change. I had more incentive to do so as they had many achievements to look forward to. Now I have to decide play only one character so I can still chase achievements or play all my characters knowing none of them will ever earn an achievement again.
You were never locked into your main. What you did on one character had no impact on how other characters advance other than CP so you could play them all you wish. Replay ability has always been in the game. This change takes away the incentive for many of us to do so. I liked that I could go for multiple master fisher achievements. Now I can't even go for one because if two characters catch a trophy fish it applies meaning no character earns the achievement.

I like this game and will keep playing (I hope) but I know I will be playing much much less. I liked being able to jump on an alt and try for a trophy achievement or something to break up the feel of repetitive play. ZoS threw that away.

Neugeniko · March 2022

This does make the game look less grindy. Maybe ZOS are just afraid of being sued for making a addictive and grindy game, probably made curated boss drops for the same reason.

PurpleDragon222 · March 2022

The account wide achievements in this update are DREADFUL. As an RPG player with several characters I was enjoying experiencing the story from all different character perspectives and getting each achievement again. Now every character has all achievements and when a world boss or dungeon is found for the first time on one character, if it has been competed with another character, then this character has also completed the boss/dungeon without even doing it! After playing for six years my joy in the game has been totally destroyed. I'm going to miss playing almost everyday.

Another problem is the way you are spoon feeding everyone, from telling the type of bait to use when fishing to showing where skyshards are located. Such a disappointment when the opportunity to explore the game on your own has been removed.

If something isn't broken then don't fix it!