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Class Change Tokens
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Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
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How about not making sweeping and rude generalizing insults about how someone might like to play the game just to prop up your argument? Might be a good place to start.People asking for a class change token don't want to bother with investing work, time and/ or money in new characters due to laziness, unwillingness to do so or because it's their "main". With AwA there's no longer a reason for not having alts except the "main" rationale.
Having a "main" and only playing this single toon in a game where you can have 8 characters from the start and you're strongly encouraged to test all races and classes for no cost it is totally up to the player when they decide to not do so. Handing them a class change token while they contradict the whole intended structure isn't something i as a company would ever do. "Play as you want" shouldn't involve being stuck to a single character in my eyes.
Also pretty contradictory to say "well play how you want shouldn't really be play how you want in these circumstances because I don't agree with them and think it should apply". What something should or shouldn't be 'in your eyes' has no bearing on how other people enjoy the game.
I'm not trying to be rude, i just don't know how to point out things without marking them in any way. May it be "...", italizing or writing it fat, it's just to pinpoint.
BTT: You're limiting yourself to a single character and yes, that's a way to play too. You'll just miss out on so many aspects of the game that lives from having different races, different classes, different playstyles.
The game is so large, there are so many things to do. Why only having such a narrow sight when you can experience so much more? Have you ever tried being a wanted criminal, getting chased by guards on sight? Becoming a vampire to mesmerize NPC's so they talk to you even when they normally wouldn't? Being a sneaky stalker attacking from the shadows? And that's only one way you can come up with, you can even be all of the mentioned things on one character. Or on multiple. Or become a werewolf. An honored good hearted paladin. A mighty wizard.
When you decide to not try out those things you're actively avoiding the biggest part of this world as you only play in your single character playstyle. Don't you want to try out new and maybe exciting things? We're having so much fun with discovering all the secrets you otherwise wouldn't even know to exist. Come, come out and play with us. Play with the whole world and do it your ways. There are plenty.Edited by Kisakee on March 30, 2022 2:16PMI'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.0 -
HertoginJanneke✭✭✭✭HertoginJanneke wrote: »There's essentially no point now awa lets you have all your achievements on any toon.
This isn't the first topic on this subject, and it won't be the last. The comunity is divided. Lots say yes, lots say no.
The problem I have with those who are against class chang tokens is that most of them only look from their perspectieve : I do not want or need this, so nobody needs it, or something like you say, we have AWA so we don't need it. Only a few bring good arguments (imo) why this isn't a good idea, whereas those who want it bring valid arguments (also, imo).
On my main account I leveled 3 necro's to cp level, but I have no love for them, and changing the class would make me play ESO more with them. I don't want to delete them and start over because I upgraded the mounts to (almost) max, maxed most of the (crafting) skillines, got quite a few skyshards, I just don't want to lose that, and I think this is why people want class change tokens, to not lose progression in skilllines and mounttraining.
Yes, that is true... however, from ZOS' perspective, they would LOSE money by adding class change tokens... so there really isn't anything in it for them... it's a losing proposition. Not only would they lose money from Crown sales, they would also lose money in the resources spent to make class change tokens work. ZOS is a 'for profit' company, and they will do everything they can to maximize profits. They have bean-counters who spend all their time figuring out what will make ZOS the most money, so don't think for a second they haven't investigated the 'would we make more from class changes or from Crown Sales on alts' question. They have, and the lack of class change token demonstrates where they feel they will continue to make the most money from.
Yes, I agree they will (might) lose money on the sales of skyshards,, skilltrees, etc. but I think that in the end they will make more money on selling the class change token because the skilltrees, syshards etc. are way overpiced whereas the class change could go fot a fair price, the same as the race change token (which imo doe not make any sense). Speaking about race change, yesterday I was Felix the Kahjiit, today I am Lizzy the Argonian and tomorrow I will be Eric the Nord. Koekoek (in dutch we sometimes say that when you're crazy). Compared to this weird feature (which tbh I have used), class changes make way more sense than race changes. Class change is all about knowledge.
Btw, if ZOS decided to add class change tokens instead of race change tokens, all these discussions would have been about when we would get race change tokens ;-p0 -
Khami✭✭✭✭starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »At this point ESO might as well sell us a class change token since, as many have pointed out, we can change everything else with tokens. Remember long ago when ESO said your alliance choice was the most important choice you have. Because once you choose you couldn't change your alliance. Well 5 or 6 years later ..... Once ESO brought in alliance change tokens, pretty much everything else is fair game.
I like creating characters, so I have a stamina and a magic version of every class, plus a few extra. If or when a new class comes out, I might use a class change token on the extra alts. Depending on how interesting the new class is, I'd level one the normal way and use the token on the 2nd character.
That's because at the base of the game, they changed. Before you were forced to be only in zones of our factions which included the vet zones. Which were the other factions zones, but in a different order from your faction. You never saw anyone from another faction until you got to Craglorn.
Class change isn't a change to the base of the game like the faction change was. As I've told a group of friends from AAU who I am trying to get to give ESO a try after they're done with what content they have in FFXIV, it doesn't matter which faction your character is in as long as we're not in Cyrodiil. Then it will matter. We will be able to do everything together. Which will be me running them through dungeons I can solo before they're big enough to actually do them.Edited by Khami on March 30, 2022 3:07PM0 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
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The best way to not be rude is to not call people things like lazy or unwilling. There are plenty of people I've known who have only one character because they don't want to split their attention between a lot of others. They don't want to have to go through getting different characters leveled and get them all their skills and gear and etc. Maybe they only have so much time to play any given day, or maybe their brain just works in a way that makes it hard to focus on more than one character. People play a certain way because that's what they like, or what they have the time and/or ability to do.
How about not making sweeping and rude generalizing insults about how someone might like to play the game just to prop up your argument? Might be a good place to start.People asking for a class change token don't want to bother with investing work, time and/ or money in new characters due to laziness, unwillingness to do so or because it's their "main". With AwA there's no longer a reason for not having alts except the "main" rationale.
Having a "main" and only playing this single toon in a game where you can have 8 characters from the start and you're strongly encouraged to test all races and classes for no cost it is totally up to the player when they decide to not do so. Handing them a class change token while they contradict the whole intended structure isn't something i as a company would ever do. "Play as you want" shouldn't involve being stuck to a single character in my eyes.
Also pretty contradictory to say "well play how you want shouldn't really be play how you want in these circumstances because I don't agree with them and think it should apply". What something should or shouldn't be 'in your eyes' has no bearing on how other people enjoy the game.
I'm not trying to be rude, i just don't know how to point out things without marking them in any way. May it be "...", italizing or writing it fat, it's just to pinpoint.
BTT: You're limiting yourself to a single character and yes, that's a way to play too. You'll just miss out on so many aspects of the game that lives from having different races, different classes, different playstyles.
The game is so large, there are so many things to do. Why only having such a narrow sight when you can experience so much more? Have you ever tried being a wanted criminal, getting chased by guards on sight? Becoming a vampire to mesmerize NPC's so they talk to you even when they normally wouldn't? Being a sneaky stalker attacking from the shadows? And that's only one way you can come up with, you can even be all of the mentioned things on one character. Or on multiple. Or become a werewolf. An honored good hearted paladin. A mighty wizard.
When you decide to not try out those things you're actively avoiding the biggest part of this world as you only play in your single character playstyle. Don't you want to try out new and maybe exciting things? We're having so much fun with discovering all the secrets you otherwise wouldn't even know to exist. Come, come out and play with us. Play with the whole world and do it your ways. There are plenty.
For the record I have 18 characters and all of them save a few are fully leveled. A lot of them don't have gear because many of them are RP characters, but I have a few different Classes and Races that do things like dungeons. My main does most everything else though, all Overland, general questing and exploration, stealing (I'm working towards Black Market Mogul), Antiquities, crafting, etc. She's also a Vampire and has been since 2016. Some other characters are Vampires, though that's more for RP purposes, a few are WWs.
Not everyone plays their characters like they have their own lives, and that's fine. There are numerous ways to enjoy the game and none of them are wrong (aside from trolling/harassment).PC-NA | Been around since closed beta
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time0 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
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How about not making sweeping and rude generalizing insults about how someone might like to play the game just to prop up your argument? Might be a good place to start.People asking for a class change token don't want to bother with investing work, time and/ or money in new characters due to laziness, unwillingness to do so or because it's their "main". With AwA there's no longer a reason for not having alts except the "main" rationale.
Having a "main" and only playing this single toon in a game where you can have 8 characters from the start and you're strongly encouraged to test all races and classes for no cost it is totally up to the player when they decide to not do so. Handing them a class change token while they contradict the whole intended structure isn't something i as a company would ever do. "Play as you want" shouldn't involve being stuck to a single character in my eyes.
Also pretty contradictory to say "well play how you want shouldn't really be play how you want in these circumstances because I don't agree with them and think it should apply". What something should or shouldn't be 'in your eyes' has no bearing on how other people enjoy the game.
I'm not trying to be rude, i just don't know how to point out things without marking them in any way. May it be "...", italizing or writing it fat, it's just to pinpoint.
BTT: You're limiting yourself to a single character and yes, that's a way to play too. You'll just miss out on so many aspects of the game that lives from having different races, different classes, different playstyles.
The game is so large, there are so many things to do. Why only having such a narrow sight when you can experience so much more? Have you ever tried being a wanted criminal, getting chased by guards on sight? Becoming a vampire to mesmerize NPC's so they talk to you even when they normally wouldn't? Being a sneaky stalker attacking from the shadows? And that's only one way you can come up with, you can even be all of the mentioned things on one character. Or on multiple. Or become a werewolf. An honored good hearted paladin. A mighty wizard.
When you decide to not try out those things you're actively avoiding the biggest part of this world as you only play in your single character playstyle. Don't you want to try out new and maybe exciting things? We're having so much fun with discovering all the secrets you otherwise wouldn't even know to exist. Come, come out and play with us. Play with the whole world and do it your ways. There are plenty.
The best way to not be rude is to not call people things like lazy or unwilling. [...] They don't want to have to go through getting different characters leveled and get them all their skills and gear and etc. [...]
So what can i call it without anyone taking it offensive in any way?I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
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How about not making sweeping and rude generalizing insults about how someone might like to play the game just to prop up your argument? Might be a good place to start.People asking for a class change token don't want to bother with investing work, time and/ or money in new characters due to laziness, unwillingness to do so or because it's their "main". With AwA there's no longer a reason for not having alts except the "main" rationale.
Having a "main" and only playing this single toon in a game where you can have 8 characters from the start and you're strongly encouraged to test all races and classes for no cost it is totally up to the player when they decide to not do so. Handing them a class change token while they contradict the whole intended structure isn't something i as a company would ever do. "Play as you want" shouldn't involve being stuck to a single character in my eyes.
Also pretty contradictory to say "well play how you want shouldn't really be play how you want in these circumstances because I don't agree with them and think it should apply". What something should or shouldn't be 'in your eyes' has no bearing on how other people enjoy the game.
I'm not trying to be rude, i just don't know how to point out things without marking them in any way. May it be "...", italizing or writing it fat, it's just to pinpoint.
BTT: You're limiting yourself to a single character and yes, that's a way to play too. You'll just miss out on so many aspects of the game that lives from having different races, different classes, different playstyles.
The game is so large, there are so many things to do. Why only having such a narrow sight when you can experience so much more? Have you ever tried being a wanted criminal, getting chased by guards on sight? Becoming a vampire to mesmerize NPC's so they talk to you even when they normally wouldn't? Being a sneaky stalker attacking from the shadows? And that's only one way you can come up with, you can even be all of the mentioned things on one character. Or on multiple. Or become a werewolf. An honored good hearted paladin. A mighty wizard.
When you decide to not try out those things you're actively avoiding the biggest part of this world as you only play in your single character playstyle. Don't you want to try out new and maybe exciting things? We're having so much fun with discovering all the secrets you otherwise wouldn't even know to exist. Come, come out and play with us. Play with the whole world and do it your ways. There are plenty.
The best way to not be rude is to not call people things like lazy or unwilling. [...] They don't want to have to go through getting different characters leveled and get them all their skills and gear and etc. [...]
So what can i call it without anyone taking it offensive in any way?
How about using "a different playstyle".2 -
Lumenn✭✭✭✭✭
✭maximusrex45 wrote: »
You're wrong!
Because of AWA alts finally are worth playing.
I can see both sides to it. Unfortunately my lawful good templar now is a murderer and thief so kinda ruined years on that score but /shrug I just pretend he's falsely accused and suffers in noble silence.0 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Kisakee I think the problem, as I see it is that you're demonstrating a certain way of thinking that I see a lot of MMO-minded people demonstrate: its that there is a "one right way" to play the game, and great difficulty, resistance or stubborn refusal to really comprehend other values. FWIW, I can see that you're genuinely trying to be open, so I'm not saying that you are all the above, but that some of what you say reflects the mindset.
I agree that living the story through alts is one good way to engage the game, but you have to understand the RPG-oriented people who experience the world through the lens of some persona, where every choice and sacrifice is meaningful to them. Choosing not to be a thief is as important (and should be just as rewarding) as choosing to be one. There are people who, with their main characters they rolled *8 years ago*, who played through the original Wailing Prison, have played every story since, intend to only ever play them once (8 years of story content is not a trivial thing!) where all the decisions they made were made very deliberately to reflect the character they wanted to play, and for them is the one true canon outcome. There are people who can't just throw away 8 years of real experience with that character, and regardless of alts WANT to play that character again, not wait for some arbitrary number of REAL WORLD months, or years for a favourable meta to maybe, maybe-not return when they may clearly see that the fundamental play of the character, made in ignorance of the way the game would develop, or not knowing of new classes turned out to be the wrong decision. If you don't care about that 8 years (or 4 years, or even 2 years, its all a huge amount of time and personal investment) then I can see its easier to not care, or just throw it all away but can't you see how that's likely to be different for MANY people?
I know what you're saying about the push to have experience in every class, but this is absolutely a meta argument and more about gaining competency in your own role by understanding what other class/roles can and can't do, and being a better team player. And I think this is an example of this logic of "well, everyone has agreed that this is the way you should play the game, it just doesn't make sense that you wouldn't." Its fed in a tight-bound echo chamber and stunningly oblivious to the outside reality of how many people are LEGITIMATELY and FULFILLINGLY engaging the game every day.1 -
GuildedLilly✭✭✭Here's some reasons I want a class change token that AWA DOESN"T effect on my toons:- Maxed riding skills
- 9 trait crafter on ALL professions
- Skillpoints & completed storylines
- Known Motifs, furnishing plans, and recipes
This isn't just 'grind up an alt'. I have alts. I have over 9 toons on PC NA alone that are maxed riding, 9 trait crafters, champ, and fully leveled in multiple guild skill lines along with alliance war. I play on 4 servers, PC Na/EU, and XB1 NA/EU. I have alts on all of them. The amount of time sunk into these characters, their abilities, and their progression is ENORMOUS.
Yes, I could grind up another alt in a day or two--- but there's no reason why if playing on a particular character's class gets stale I shouldn't be able to pay to change it, particularly since I can pay to change EVERYTHING else. Also, I think people are under-estimating just how many of us who would love a class change token already *have* multiple alts. It would ease the load on the server if they just let us play as what we want on toons we already love, vs. constantly grinding new toons.Grandmaster crafter, alt-o-holic, PC NA/EU, and XB1 NA/EU0 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
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Just because someone doesn't want to do something doesn't make them lazy or unwilling, it simply means that's not something they find fun or otherwise engaging. A lot of people see having to level and gear up numerous characters as tedious and boring. I personally can't stand leveling, up to level 30 or so is a breeze and fast, but then 30-40 gets really tedious, and 40-50 is an absolute slog.
How about not making sweeping and rude generalizing insults about how someone might like to play the game just to prop up your argument? Might be a good place to start.People asking for a class change token don't want to bother with investing work, time and/ or money in new characters due to laziness, unwillingness to do so or because it's their "main". With AwA there's no longer a reason for not having alts except the "main" rationale.
Having a "main" and only playing this single toon in a game where you can have 8 characters from the start and you're strongly encouraged to test all races and classes for no cost it is totally up to the player when they decide to not do so. Handing them a class change token while they contradict the whole intended structure isn't something i as a company would ever do. "Play as you want" shouldn't involve being stuck to a single character in my eyes.
Also pretty contradictory to say "well play how you want shouldn't really be play how you want in these circumstances because I don't agree with them and think it should apply". What something should or shouldn't be 'in your eyes' has no bearing on how other people enjoy the game.
I'm not trying to be rude, i just don't know how to point out things without marking them in any way. May it be "...", italizing or writing it fat, it's just to pinpoint.
BTT: You're limiting yourself to a single character and yes, that's a way to play too. You'll just miss out on so many aspects of the game that lives from having different races, different classes, different playstyles.
The game is so large, there are so many things to do. Why only having such a narrow sight when you can experience so much more? Have you ever tried being a wanted criminal, getting chased by guards on sight? Becoming a vampire to mesmerize NPC's so they talk to you even when they normally wouldn't? Being a sneaky stalker attacking from the shadows? And that's only one way you can come up with, you can even be all of the mentioned things on one character. Or on multiple. Or become a werewolf. An honored good hearted paladin. A mighty wizard.
When you decide to not try out those things you're actively avoiding the biggest part of this world as you only play in your single character playstyle. Don't you want to try out new and maybe exciting things? We're having so much fun with discovering all the secrets you otherwise wouldn't even know to exist. Come, come out and play with us. Play with the whole world and do it your ways. There are plenty.
The best way to not be rude is to not call people things like lazy or unwilling. [...] They don't want to have to go through getting different characters leveled and get them all their skills and gear and etc. [...]
So what can i call it without anyone taking it offensive in any way?
As was said, instead of seeing people as lazy or whatever, just say that they prefer playing the game a different way. People who want Class Change don't want it because of being lazy, most want it because they don't want to give up a character they've put a lot of investment and time into.Edited by Arunei on March 31, 2022 2:33AMPC-NA | Been around since closed beta
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time0 -
Kisakee✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't mean to be rude in any way, for me it's just to point out why i don't want to deal with something. As english isn't my first language and i for one don't care much about polital correctness but for head-on simple descriptions i'm sorry if anyone got negative feelings from all this.
For my understanding it's this: If i can't get myself to do something i'm lazy, if i absolutely don't want to do somehing i'm unwilling. Per definition that's what it means and being lazy or unwilling isn't a playstyle to me but a mindset.[...] most want it because they don't want to give up a character they've put a lot of investment and time into.
And this is the point where i say "You're not giving up on that character, you just get another one to play with and you can switch anytime you want". I stopped having a "main" many years ago in another game.
Different characters are a way to express different sides of me and every single one of them is still part of my heart as they reflect myself. If you use them to unfold yourself you'll get the most fun out of it, at least that's the way i feel.I'm but a sarcastic beef jerky. Irony and cynicism are my parents. You've been warned.0
if i have classe change token to use in my main.