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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
ZOS, why did you do it? (Heavy attack one shot builds)
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Evo444Soul ShrivenMelee ganks that take two GCDs and include a stun are different. There are counters available. I got hit with one just yesterday and survived via Zoal + Slippery CP.
Counters that you built into, you built in a certain way to counter it. If these heavy attacks are really popular against you. You can build into countering it by not being a vampire, using %less dmg taken sources, building into majority light armor and if you are a vampire-crouch more often to stay hidden. You can get rid of Zoal's because this is ranged and maybe in exchange get more %less dmg taken with Encratis if you getting hit while in combat. Don't build into the way this hits up above 30k+.0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Melee ganks that take two GCDs and include a stun are different. There are counters available. I got hit with one just yesterday and survived via Zoal + Slippery CP.
Counters that you built into, you built in a certain way to counter it. If these heavy attacks are really popular against you. You can build into countering it by not being a vampire, using %less dmg taken sources, building into majority light armor and if you are a vampire-crouch more often to stay hidden. You can get rid of Zoal's because this is ranged and maybe in exchange get more %less dmg taken with Encratis if you getting hit while in combat. Don't build into the way this hits up above 30k+.
hah, the class with the counter, is DK. 50% reduced projectile damage. Warden as well. Random cloaking, dodge rolling, blocking, it all works.
When doing the gank, you really want a target who is completely preoccupied with the fight right in front of them. Then it just hits them out of the blue. That is how it happens to me. I am completely focused on delivering my burst, and whammo. 37K outta nowhere. It is such a big number, I don't think Undeath passive even has time to activate, but the %13 extra firedamage does.0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Here is a 37k flame heavy from a nightblade
video: https://imgur.com/8gsktzM
They instantly cloak after the heavy attack so you can never actually see them.
Ouch. 37k dmg oO
Sure it was a NB and not a DK with invispot? Looked like one but damage seems to high.
Hard to tell because it looks like they're below that hill. There are definitely ways to get your heavy attacks up like that. Especially if you push for max crit damage. But it's not an easy way to go and that's why you don't see a lot of NBs doing it. I've seen it more often on DKs because it's easier and you aren't surrendering your entire build to just heavies.
I don't think it's possible to use guaranteed crit and heavy flame (at least fully charged). 3s timeframe window isn't enough, tested on dummies.
This. It isn't. The heavy attack takes 2.3 seconds I believe. Assume you aren't swapping bars, that only leaves .7 seconds to land. The attack still has to land during shadowy.I drink and I stream things.
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fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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You think that people use Entropy. No. Good for lightning heavy attack builds, but not for flame heavy ganks. I don't even think they use Magelight, cause that knocks you out of stealth. I suspect they use Equilibrium.It doesn't matter if the set has an "in combat" condition because you always lead with a skill that gives you empower so you are going to be in combat anyway.
I guess maybe you also play on console or you don't use Miat's addon. The initial attack of a new player entering a fight generates a sound for the Miat-using target. The target will typically dodge roll immediately, or at least that's what I do. A heavy attack that is led by something else is not viable. Not on PC EU or at least not against Miat users.
As someone else has pointed out, if the ganker is grouped that may put them into combat, even when they are not actively participating. They may also be in combat when they are quickly moving from fight to fight or target to target. That may just be OK. It's a more involved playstyle. What you don't want is gankers being too comfortable, is what I'm saying. Particularly in IC there are good reasons to stay out of combat as a ganker, because as soon as you get into combat you typically become a target for NPCs, especially some of the nasty boss mechanics where the fight revolves around a boss.
By the way, if you don't believe in sets having "in combat" restrictions, ZOS clearly disagrees with you already. Clever Alchemist and various other sets have exactly that restriction for exactly this reason. To curb ganking excess.PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
PC NA (EP): Magicka NB0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
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You think that people use Entropy. No. Good for lightning heavy attack builds, but not for flame heavy ganks. I don't even think they use Magelight, cause that knocks you out of stealth. I suspect they use Equilibrium......It doesn't matter if the set has an "in combat" condition because you always lead with a skill that gives you empower so you are going to be in combat anyway.
......By the way, if you don't believe in sets having "in combat" restrictions, ZOS clearly disagrees with you already. Clever Alchemist and various other sets have exactly that restriction for exactly this reason. To curb ganking excess.
I haven't seen any lightning one-shot builds. Those are mostly zergers using it to spread Plaguebreak. Fire staff is the one to use - 12% extra HA damage, 10% single target damage, 40% empower, 50% molten, 35% from CP, and 70% from offbalance if you can get it.
As for "in combat" conditions, I don't think they function as intended (I'm not for or against). Most of the time in Cyro I can't get out of combat.
I use degen or magelight, and don't worry about stealth that much. I'm picking people off at large fights, so no one is paying attention and I'm always "in combat".
That said, my DK is horribly inefficient compared to my necro rolling in and dropping everyone at once.
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DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭By the way, if you don't believe in sets having "in combat" restrictions, ZOS clearly disagrees with you already. Clever Alchemist and various other sets have exactly that restriction for exactly this reason. To curb ganking excess.
IIRC clever in combat requirement had little to do with NBs and more to do with duelers and 1vXers pre proc'ing. Clever has a serious drawback for a NB (the cooldown) as no NBs want to sit on the sideline waiting for the next potion to pop. If you run cooldown glyphs you're losing damage so you might as well just run stygian which can be easily reapplied and auto procs on attack.
It's much less necessary for NBs to stack max damage because you start to lose out elsewhere. But maybe I'm misremembering. It was a while ago.
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Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Personally I think it's reasonable. All those hits you see above 30k, chances are that's from someone using corrosive, not from someone without that ult, not a NB in that video(It's a visual bug, the person is a dk actually flanking him from sides/behind 100% sure, also it's possible this person had off-balance on them at the time the heavy attack hit from the person he was in combat with). There's people who slap balorgh and dawnbreaker on a build with 2 defense sets and still kill someone with DB+spin2win, why should someone who goes full offense/no survivability not be able to kill someone with their ult? An ult that isn't always readily available meaning they aren't constantly firing 30k+ heavy attacks. This build will deal far less damage without their ult and yeah that could be ~20k, but that's not gonna oneshot you and if you do die to someone by themselves without the ult from 2 ~20k heavy attacks, what were you doing in between the 3-4 seconds it takes from channeling a heavy and its travel time in the air to land on you?
Now you say "ZOS, why did you do it?" but really those people above should be asked why they did it, they most likely claim they're tanky when all they did was build into taking more damage from this with the combo with the ult. They most likely built into armor in a proc campaign knowing it can get melted by balorghs or completely ignored by corrosive meaning the only helpful passive from heavy armor was the 2% max hp per piece. They most likely built into majority heavy armor increasing their magical damage taken without balancing weight pieces out. They most likely built into vampirism, stage 3 is popular so that's 13% more flame damage, some necro bombers go stage 4 so that's 20% more flame damage.
If you wanna be tankier and not the run around a piece of architecture tanky kind, I'd say get more %less dmg like major/minor protection, so flare and temporal guard if you use transform/buff ult, equip the less single target and less direct dmg blue perks, and check out ironblood and buffer of the swift. It's less damage taken that unpenetrable. If you do go into %less damage and balancing weight of armor pieces, then getting oneshot above 30k shouldn't happen unless you're stage 4 vampire for 20% more flame damage. You can also counter magical damage by being majority light armor.
There's also far worse, more damaging combos in a full offense build that go beyond 40k damage in a pinch, but I don't think people take the time to add the numbers up in the recap from a damage combo as opposed to just seeing 1 big lone heavy attack with the aid of corrosive. The thing that contributed to most damage in this build was never a heavy attack, not the gear sets, not filling up your action bar with buff abilties, not the blue dmg perks, not even molten armaments, it's corrosive. Think of an ult that just lets you ignore 25k/30k/40k/50k resists someone has. That's how powerful corrosive is, that's how important %less dmg is against corrosive. So I hope ZOS doesn't nerf it, because it's an assassination build like any other, except being special by being ranged and 100% of that damage is fire so it'll counter vampires to the fullest, but if they do, I hope the change is to corrosive as that won't interfere with pve'ers with heavy attack builds and people who use heavy attack sets that aren't a dk
Just remember, just like those pvp "best" "OP" build videos that cherry pick low hp people, low resists people, pve'ers in pvp, or people with no reaction time. There's gonna be people who cherry pick this 30k/35k/40k+ heavy attack death recap and say it's overpowered and rightfully so, because they themselves built into more damage from it with built-in weaknesses(They probably won't mention that part). They got countered. ZOS's freedom of choice in making a build for pvp didn't force them to build into those weaknesses.
Yeah after some testing, there's no way in hell I get my NB to do 30k+ heavy attacks vs actual pvp players. Not even with balorgh. Came to the conclusion that clip must be a DK with corrosive and invispots.
Unless it was a emperor nightblade but thats highly unlikely. Why wouldn't he just bomb instead in that case.. :PEU | PC0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Master_Kas wrote: »Personally I think it's reasonable. All those hits you see above 30k, chances are that's from someone using corrosive, not from someone without that ult, not a NB in that video(It's a visual bug, the person is a dk actually flanking him from sides/behind 100% sure, also it's possible this person had off-balance on them at the time the heavy attack hit from the person he was in combat with). There's people who slap balorgh and dawnbreaker on a build with 2 defense sets and still kill someone with DB+spin2win, why should someone who goes full offense/no survivability not be able to kill someone with their ult? An ult that isn't always readily available meaning they aren't constantly firing 30k+ heavy attacks. This build will deal far less damage without their ult and yeah that could be ~20k, but that's not gonna oneshot you and if you do die to someone by themselves without the ult from 2 ~20k heavy attacks, what were you doing in between the 3-4 seconds it takes from channeling a heavy and its travel time in the air to land on you?
Now you say "ZOS, why did you do it?" but really those people above should be asked why they did it, they most likely claim they're tanky when all they did was build into taking more damage from this with the combo with the ult. They most likely built into armor in a proc campaign knowing it can get melted by balorghs or completely ignored by corrosive meaning the only helpful passive from heavy armor was the 2% max hp per piece. They most likely built into majority heavy armor increasing their magical damage taken without balancing weight pieces out. They most likely built into vampirism, stage 3 is popular so that's 13% more flame damage, some necro bombers go stage 4 so that's 20% more flame damage.
If you wanna be tankier and not the run around a piece of architecture tanky kind, I'd say get more %less dmg like major/minor protection, so flare and temporal guard if you use transform/buff ult, equip the less single target and less direct dmg blue perks, and check out ironblood and buffer of the swift. It's less damage taken that unpenetrable. If you do go into %less damage and balancing weight of armor pieces, then getting oneshot above 30k shouldn't happen unless you're stage 4 vampire for 20% more flame damage. You can also counter magical damage by being majority light armor.
There's also far worse, more damaging combos in a full offense build that go beyond 40k damage in a pinch, but I don't think people take the time to add the numbers up in the recap from a damage combo as opposed to just seeing 1 big lone heavy attack with the aid of corrosive. The thing that contributed to most damage in this build was never a heavy attack, not the gear sets, not filling up your action bar with buff abilties, not the blue dmg perks, not even molten armaments, it's corrosive. Think of an ult that just lets you ignore 25k/30k/40k/50k resists someone has. That's how powerful corrosive is, that's how important %less dmg is against corrosive. So I hope ZOS doesn't nerf it, because it's an assassination build like any other, except being special by being ranged and 100% of that damage is fire so it'll counter vampires to the fullest, but if they do, I hope the change is to corrosive as that won't interfere with pve'ers with heavy attack builds and people who use heavy attack sets that aren't a dk
Just remember, just like those pvp "best" "OP" build videos that cherry pick low hp people, low resists people, pve'ers in pvp, or people with no reaction time. There's gonna be people who cherry pick this 30k/35k/40k+ heavy attack death recap and say it's overpowered and rightfully so, because they themselves built into more damage from it with built-in weaknesses(They probably won't mention that part). They got countered. ZOS's freedom of choice in making a build for pvp didn't force them to build into those weaknesses.
Yeah after some testing, there's no way in hell I get my NB to do 30k+ heavy attacks vs actual pvp players. Not even with balorgh. Came to the conclusion that clip must be a DK with corrosive and invispots.
Unless it was a emperor nightblade but thats highly unlikely. Why wouldn't he just bomb instead in that case.. :P
Yeah I don't think it is either. You aren't landing that heavy in 3 seconds for shadowy. But you can invisible as a DK with your buffs, throw a heavy, then move back before it hits.I drink and I stream things.
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Veg✭✭✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Here is a 37k flame heavy from a nightblade
video: https://imgur.com/8gsktzM
They instantly cloak after the heavy attack so you can never actually see them.
Ouch. 37k dmg oO
Sure it was a NB and not a DK with invispot? Looked like one but damage seems to high.
Hard to tell because it looks like they're below that hill. There are definitely ways to get your heavy attacks up like that. Especially if you push for max crit damage. But it's not an easy way to go and that's why you don't see a lot of NBs doing it. I've seen it more often on DKs because it's easier and you aren't surrendering your entire build to just heavies.
In that clip it was actually a NB. I have seen that NB a few times and I know the build they use. I wont post the exact build out of respect for them making it work but it just involves crit damage and vamp.ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Here is a 37k flame heavy from a nightblade
video: https://imgur.com/8gsktzM
They instantly cloak after the heavy attack so you can never actually see them.
Ouch. 37k dmg oO
Sure it was a NB and not a DK with invispot? Looked like one but damage seems to high.
Hard to tell because it looks like they're below that hill. There are definitely ways to get your heavy attacks up like that. Especially if you push for max crit damage. But it's not an easy way to go and that's why you don't see a lot of NBs doing it. I've seen it more often on DKs because it's easier and you aren't surrendering your entire build to just heavies.
In that clip it was actually a NB. I have seen that NB a few times and I know the build they use. I wont post the exact build out of respect for them making it work but it just involves crit damage and vamp.
zos knows most of the sets and thing doing heavy hitting. 100% your buddy's build is going to get nerfed next patch lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Here is a 37k flame heavy from a nightblade
video: https://imgur.com/8gsktzM
They instantly cloak after the heavy attack so you can never actually see them.
Ouch. 37k dmg oO
Sure it was a NB and not a DK with invispot? Looked like one but damage seems to high.
Hard to tell because it looks like they're below that hill. There are definitely ways to get your heavy attacks up like that. Especially if you push for max crit damage. But it's not an easy way to go and that's why you don't see a lot of NBs doing it. I've seen it more often on DKs because it's easier and you aren't surrendering your entire build to just heavies.
In that clip it was actually a NB. I have seen that NB a few times and I know the build they use. I wont post the exact build out of respect for them making it work but it just involves crit damage and vamp.
zos knows most of the sets and thing doing heavy hitting. 100% your buddy's build is going to get nerfed next patch lol.
OK, so they know, why wasn't it nerfed this patch?
Almost all of the 37Ks I see are DKs. I was seeing hits that big last patch too.0 -
Elrond87✭✭✭do they use like sergeant and aether, balorgh , proc with restro ult, vamp simerfrenzy, empower from equilibrium molten arm dk to get those numbersPC|EU
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