What's the one biggest change you would like to see with PvP that would make you play/enjoy it more?

BloodMagicLord · March 2022

I am posting this in general instead of in PvP because it's also aimed at players who are not actively doing PvP most of the time.

I bought ESO in 2015. I started playing PvP in 2016. Back then it did have its problems, but it was mostly a fun experience. Sure you occasionally ran into broken builds or got screwed by lag, but populations were high, build options were diverse, there were no overpowered so-called "zerg buster" sets.

In the years since I have watched a slow and gradual decline of PvP, with issues such as:

Class balance wildly fluctuating with over-the-top buffs and subsequent crippling nerfs.
Introduction of destro ult which made easy skill-free AOE trains dominate most Cyro gameplay outside of the low level campaign
Continuing performance problems on the highly populated campaigns, with little to no improvement over the course of five years
A plethora of sometimes weird tests on the live server. Maybe these were necessary, but they don't seem to have done much good.
Introduction of "zerg-buster" sets like Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak as sticking-plaster fixes for performance problems caused by ball group gameplay, instead of addressing the root causes of ball group gameplay, These sets can obviously be used by the ball groups as well, have stupidly easy proc conditions requiring no skill to utilize, and honestly just suck the fun out of gameplay. My 5 year old niece could probably get kills with these sets.
Gradual, but noticeable, and by now extremely worrisome reduction in player count and subsequent migration of prominent community members, content creators and streamers to other games such as New World. This is presumably due to a aforementioned issues, and others, being left to go on for years with no sign of resolution.

You may not agree with all of the points raised above, and that's fine. The crux of the issue is that having been around in this game for most of its history, I am concerned that PvP in this game is in its death throes, in my opinion it is less fun than it has ever been and there is still no sign that its going to get better.

I used to spend a lot of time in the low level campaign because many of the problems above were less present there, or completely removed. But nowadays that campaign is just devoid of players 90% of the time and dominated by one faction only for the other 10%. This is terrible, because this is going to be the FIRST PvP EXPERIENCE for a lot of new players, and they come in, they see that, they say "wow PvP sure is dead in ESO, huh" and then off they go to do something else.

So my question is, whether you are someone actively playing PvP, someone who used to play it but quit, or someone who hasn't tried it but wouldn't dismiss the idea:
What do you think is the main thing that Zenimax can do to attract players back to PvP in ESO, especially Cyrodiil?

Please voice your opinions and hopefully Zenimax reads what you write and we give them some fresh ideas, because this stagnation has gone on for too long and it's honestly a crying shame.

Starlight_Knight · March 2022

Just some evolution to the game. it's the same thing it's always been, yea they tweek a skill here and there but there is no progression or passage of time.

Content is old and stale, needs refreshing with some fresh ideas.
Having rubbish performance as well doesn't help but it's not the reason less and less people are playing, but it's definitely making those annoying bugs and triggers more triggering.

For me it's the cant break free thing, i just Alt and F4 now and give my stress levels a rest.
Boring frustrating same old content with little to no incentive to play.

No cool or unique unlockables.

They need to dial back on the aggressive monetization and fold some of those mounts and cosmetics into the game as earnables.

Vevvev · March 2022

More action, more siege weapons, and less lag.

BloodMagicLord · March 2022

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Just some evolution to the game. it's the same thing it's always been, yea they tweek a skill here and there but there is no progression or passage of time.

Content is old and stale, needs refreshing with some fresh ideas.
Having rubbish performance as well doesn't help but it's not the reason less and less people are playing, but it's definitely making those annoying bugs and triggers more triggering.

For me it's the cant break free thing, i just Alt and F4 now and give my stress levels a rest.
Boring frustrating same old content with little to no incentive to play.

No cool or unique unlockables.

They need to dial back on the aggressive monetization and fold some of those mounts and cosmetics into the game as earnables.

Yup completely agree with this. The gameplay isn't fun and there's no real reward for doing it either, so it should be pretty obvious to Zenimax that while this the case PvP will continue to hemorrhage active players.

shadyjane62 · March 2022

Being able to recall without a stone.

S0Z0H · March 2022

Just get new servers that can handle the game and player traffic , that's all

Gaeliannas · March 2022

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

What's the one biggest change you would like to see with PvP that would make you play/enjoy it more?

Until performance/lag is addressed and populations are allowed to return to normal levels, nothing else matters IMHO. How can we even address/judge anything else, if the games performance is so bad and unreliable you can't really even tell how something works, is supposed to work, or if you can/can't counter it under normal circumstances?

So my answer is: Performance.

Northwold · March 2022

I almost feel like a whole new "class" or "classes" of character in Cyrodiil with different objectives would freshen things up and add a whole new gameplay dynamic.

I don't mean a new character class, but like, say, a spy who has to seek out documents / whatever that, on finding them and bringing them back, would highlight (create, in player terms) weaknesses in an enemy keep. Playing that class would need different skills and come with different abilities.

Scouts to poison water sources. Etc.

Just the introduction of a few different roles so that it's not all bashing people over the head or repairing walls.

Folkb · March 2022

Damage output/input and buffs adjusted to be the same across pve and pvp.

BlueRaven · March 2022

I loved pvp in the early days when the sizes of the battles felt epic.
1v1 I am pathetic, I fall over if someone breathes hard enough in my direction. But being part of a large siege (not a ball group), like a giant army, was super fun. I remember castle sieges where there were huge numbers on each side. Fights felt like a team/army fight, and not skirmishes or some 1vX god tier geared player farming other players.

But with the lowered pop caps… I feel like I can be singled out easier, and with every one just focusing on killing doors, sieges aren’t as epic feeling.

Stamicka · March 2022

For me there’s a long list of things. I personally don’t think the current lack of PvPers is from the lack of fresh features. This might be part of it, but there’s way bigger issues with the current features. I’ve had many PvP friends over the years, and they have quit in pretty distinct waves. The first wave was early 2016 when performance started getting worse. The second wave quit when One Tamriel introduced tons of procs and new sets into the game. The third wave quit when Murkmire released because the balance changes were bad, healing and tankiness was out of control, and the performance was worsening.

For me personally, I’ve been able to overlook a lot of the poor changes that ZOS has made. I enjoy the combat system so much that I have overlooked the terrible balance, the class homogenization, the terrible performance, and the lack of incentive. I was very unhappy with the state of PvP, but I still had fun occasionally. This created a new problem however. I was in the very small minority that continued to give PvP a chance. That has lead to the final nail in the coffin. There is no one to play with or against. This has finally caused me to quit, except for when there’s a PvP event. BG queues take too long, IC is always dead, the people in Cyrodiil would rather siege or run away than fight me, and even dueling is dead. This is common across both PC and Xbox. I can’t PvP if there’s no one to play against.

So in short, balance, performance, and proc sets caused many people to stop PvPing, and the lack of PvPers caused other PvPers to stop PvPing. It’s a sad cycle.

pleximus · March 2022

Besides the obvious stuff?

I'd LOVE it if every keep had its own unique design. Emperor keeps look the same and tri-keeps too. A design change would make for more dynamic fights.

Lumenn · March 2022

It's hard to say ANYTHING besides performance. I haven't PVP'D on PC yet but Xbox na you just KNOW there are certain times during the day/week you won't be able to COUNT on bar swapping, skills going off, potions working (you'll HEAR it but they don't actually get used) even MOVING can be fun if you start rubber banding. If you dc then try to log back in it's a toss up on if you get in or "can't connect to server" so you have to log in another character first, then log back into the pvp character and of COURSE que back in. Just a casual search through the forums let's you know it's not one or two people with internet issues. Zos has claimed they're working on it for awhile now. I'd pvp more if I actually saw more than a post once or twice a year about working on it.

Next is the "king of the hill" mentality. There is ALWAYS a call to nerf something. It'll build until EVERY other post is the same. When it's done, on to the next thing. From simple skills(wings for example) to whole skill lines, whole classes, sets. They are always valid to some so I won't demean anyone by saying their opinion isn't important but we completely kill creativity. We used to joke about fighting naked with only light attacks because heavy attacks were too OP and would get nerfed. 👀

Right now it's a constant seesaw as to what is effective, and that's if you can even get in and play. Performance first. Fix homogenization of the classes second.

Mik195 · March 2022

Set up a campaign where my gear and champion points are automatically adjusted for pvp and the only thing I need to think about are the skills I want to use. Then if I find this training version of pvp interesting, I can graduate to the other campaigns. Right now getting into pvp requires too much work.

Punches_Below_Belt · March 2022

Until invincibility to siege attacks/ultimates and the ability to insta-kill other players with multiple untelegraphed attacks is removed/fixed, PvP will only be suitable for the toxic obsessives, who aren’t really interested in playing a game as much as they want to stroke their egos with how cleverly they break, exploit, cheat and manipulate the systems.

They might as well be stock brokers, lawyers or political operatives in their hyper-competitive, narcissistic pursuit to satisfy their egos and win regardless of issues of integrity, respect or health of the game they claim to love.

gariondavey · March 2022

Gaeliannas wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

What's the one biggest change you would like to see with PvP that would make you play/enjoy it more?

Until performance/lag is addressed and populations are allowed to return to normal levels, nothing else matters IMHO. How can we even address/judge anything else, if the games performance is so bad and unreliable you can't really even tell how something works, is supposed to work, or if you can/can't counter it under normal circumstances?

So my answer is: Performance.

Amen

Ryuvain · March 2022

If they fixed tower running and LOSing everything I'd pvp more. Super annoying when they go for another 5 laps on a tower with "miss" showing up everywhere.

CharlieCluster7 · March 2022

I want new pvp zones and new daedric weapons

dmnqwk · March 2022

I want to see slow PvP punished with a loss for everybody.

It's so silly that in PvP you can have matches vary from 3 minutes to 30 and there's always going to be a winner. We need more time limits on PvP so that PvPers can lose and fail to get any reward.

In PvE you can have failure, but in PvP there's never any chance of failure, just somebody else winning. I don't like this approach because it led to Battle Spirit being added which isn't a positive thing.

Shihp00 · March 2022

Solo 1 v 1 'Arena' Mode(3-5 rounds - winner gets AP) CP & non-CP. Basically ranked Duelling would make me prioritize this game over the other ones I play.

WySoSirius · March 2022

Simply just fix the pvp server performance

drsalvation · March 2022

hm, it would require an entire overhaul in my opinion.
I think PvP should be fair (not to be confused with easy). For honor is fair, if I fail and lose, it feels like it was actually my fault, I never get one-shot killed and I always have a chance to learn from my mistakes as a person with a controller playing a video game.
In games like ESO, and red dead online, PvP is unfair, I can get ambushed by a nightblade and be instantly killed before I can even break free, I had no way to see that coming, I had no way to react or even being able to do anything to get a fighting chance. Or in RDO's case, I can simply get one-shot by some random sniper in a bush far away when all I'm doing is just passing through a town.
It's frustrating because it will never feel like it was my own fault, in ESO you don't "git gud" you grind for builds. You can do everything right, and deal no damage whatsoever because your build doesn't support it, so fighting other players feels like the game had already decided who's going to win.
Have you ever played those mobile idle games where you unlock new characters with their own sets of skills, and the only way you "fight" is building your team and then the game plays itself, up to a point where if you pay you can skip the fight and go straight to the end result? This is exactly how ESO feels like, with the illusion of 'choice' (as in, engage with some player and hope your build surpasses theirs). But the end result of the fight is already dictated.

In my opinion, PvP would require an overhaul, hard caps on absolutely every aspect (defense, damage, pen, crit, etc).
And do what Fallout 76 did with their old PvP mode: Your PvE avatar transfers to PvP, but not their gear, instead everyone would start from 0, and find gear on the go, and have a specific PvP skill tree that doesn't transfer to PvE (and vice versa).
It's a weird approach for ESO, but ultimately it's the only way it can be fair without completely altering the whole combat.

When I got a better PvP build, killing other players never felt satisfying, because just when I used to lose, wining matches never felt like it was my own doing, because in the end, it wasn't me who got better at fighting, it was me switching my armor sets and champion points.

I know they say every MMO is like this, but there's no reason to stick to it like that.
I think ESO should've focused on PvP combat and THEN build the whole PvE environment around it.
Armor sets in ESO should only slightly buff some of your favorite skills, not cast devastating ultimate skills for free (like DC, which should've been a racial ultimate skill, not a free proc).
PvP fights should be determined by the player's skills, not the character's skill sets.
But since none of that is ever going to happen, then the least and smallest approach they could take is the first approach I mentioned (specific PvP builds that don't transfer in PvE zones and vice versa, and no gear sets either, everyone starts from 0 on every campaign)

Lady_Galadhiel · March 2022

More Battleground maps and modes.

Bradyfjord · March 2022

I would still be playing Cyrodiil if the game didn't stutter when more than a handful of players are in the same place. I'm not having fun when I can't tell what's going on, or when my actions/abilities are happening. All I see is a stuttering slideshow of other players moving around and then I die or they die. I don't mind losing a fight but it isn't fun if I lose a fight that I can't even see.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo · March 2022

More players on the map (Cyrodiil as it gets rather empty outside of big fights)
Better performance (less lag/time outs on busy keeps aka Aleswell)
Less sets available to PvP with (Yes guide lines are better for all)
Reworks of some of the newer classes and their skills which are over the top still
Less 'spot light' on one class, just make everyone balanced each patch
More objectives in Cyrodiil

I'm still just roleplaying...(real roleplay), I can't do it forever...please fix PvP.

DigiAngel · March 2022

Fix the ludicrous travel....it's legit the worst. Such a HUGE time sink getting around, and the rewards just aren't worth it.

Narvuntien · March 2022

The main reason I don't play it very often is that Cryodil is a huge time sink, you can play for hours and achieve nothing.

I don't play the other forms of PVP because well people don't die, and I die quicker. we just bash swords together until one of us dies or breaks and runs.

bachpain · March 2022

For me it is the META or meat state of the game. If you don't have a full on META build in PVP you are invariably going to be smashed to bits in short order and probably T-bagged by someone who is. The proc sets, cross healing, and power creep in the game have widened that gap so far that new players can't even break into it without a month of research and development. I watched a streamer attempt a "budget PVP build" getting smashed on stream and go 0-4 in a battle ground. He couldn't take it any longer and switched back to his real build and finished top of the board 9-4. The ONLY difference was his finely tuned gear choice.

Doing even marginally well is just too out of reach for someone entering PVP. It takes a special breed to stick it out and learn the ropes. Most will just move along to something else rather than beat their heads against the wall for the steep learning curve, and grinding of mythics, trials, and vet DLC dungeons to get the gear to be competitive in PVP because as was stated already there just simply is no rewards worth it. So only the ones who REALLY want to PVP will even stick it out. And that number is dying with the performance of the game.

LurgidBean · March 2022

I've only dabbled in PvP during guild events in my PvE armor until this last Mayhem where I got really into BGs and got my Bloodletter title during the event!

I had a LOT of fun learning about the difference between PvP builds and PvE and changing my sets and skills and learning something new in a game I've played for years & love. And it was so much fun running with my builds! Yasssss! My Warden Healer screeching around enemies with wings and flowers and frost was awesome. This is exciting & fast paced! Let's try ALL types of PvP!!!!!

Oh wait, you mean the build I created for BGs won't work in IC? What do I need to change? Oh, everything? Forget that, what about Cyrodil? Oh...it doesn't work there either? Just sometimes? Depends on the campaigns? WTF I guess I'll just stand at this tent and queue for BGs.
And since I'm just standing & waiting in overland, I'm more likely to jump into a lfg for a dungeon or trial and then won't go back to PvP.

I'm sure for people who play PvP the varying rule sets aren't a hurdle, and in some cases are utilized for niche builds. But it makes Entry & Learning Level PvPers overwhelmed and confused. I can't engage in all aspects of PvP with a build like you can for PvE. You don't walk into a trial and find yourself suddenly without vital conditions you built around. Yes, this is part of the learning and get gud experience, but the hurdles are so big and confusing without any guidance in-game, that a lot of players won't even bother joining the race. I had a blast racing during Mayhem, IC was fun when it was populated, but I'm not joining the team because there are some significant management/leadership issues and for a rookie it's confusing & inaccessible.

Alchimiste1 · March 2022

Throughout the years, ever since like 2018, they have done nothing for the end game community. The skill ceiling has come down so far , and the skill floor has gone up so much it’s almost laughable. Honestly the game hasn’t felt the same since the removal of animation canceling. Give us back no cast times, old bash weaving , movement jump , get rid of overturned proc sets. Give us old indestructible bridges (great kitting spot).

Balance right now sucks. Why did the class that had the highest pressure (magdk) get minor brutality added too ? They already had insane damage. Why did magplar that has a delayed un roll dodgeble hard hitting skill get a stun that also goes through block hits through resistances and can be cast at range ?

The hybridization for the end game population sucks. They’ve effectively gotten rid of half the classes because if you are trying to be competitive at end game you want to run what’s best , well what’s best is now the same for mag and stam so they just feel like the same class.

Zero pvp content in like 2 years. The expansions haven’t brought anything new( new pvp meta = best card deck ?) Completely lackluster and it’s gotten very boring.

And of course performance. To get people to come back to pvp they have to change a lot.

newtinmpls · March 2022

1-A "white flag" toggle so I could quest in PvP areas - maybe instead of immunity it could provide 2-4 "guards" who would spring up and pester any gankers. If I joined in in any hostile move toward the Player, then they would nail me.

2-Protective objectives; i.e. deliver relief supplies to "X" keep (could be the equivalent of a "scouting mission") - but even cooler would be the goal to actually accompany some kind of NPC group.