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ZOS, why did you do it? (Heavy attack one shot builds)
fred4
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You changed previously lightning heavy attack niche sets from getting a flat buff to getting equivalent weapon / spell damage instead. Now everyone and their mother is hitting people with 20K+ flame heavy attacks from out of nowhere. Primarily DKs, I suppose (Molten Armaments), but I can just as well see this incorporated into other people's combos, including dual-wield stealth light / heavy attacks from nightblades, who can avail of the flanking / out of combat heavy attack bonus from crouch. Please don't tell me you couldn't see this coming from a mile away. It's PvP burst construction 101.
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DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭A NB isn't doing a one shot heavy attack without stacking other sources of damage. For example, Caluurions or Grim Focus proc. They try all the time on me, and I'm also a NB with only 22k health.
Whenever I hit someone, I'm landing 6 to 7 sources of damage within 2 seconds. That takes several steps in a rotation and nothing going wrong. You're more likely to die like that on siege or if you aren't good with keeping defenses up.
DKs however can kill many builds with just one heavy because they have been given every advantage.I drink and I stream things.0 -
PvP_Exploiter✭✭✭The WD/SD increase if far less than flat damage.
HA got nerfed. Except for Storm Caller, for some reason that wasn't updated. Incompetence strikes again.1 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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I agree that implementing this on a nightblade will not make for such an easy playstyle. However, I have hit and been hit by up to 12K dual-wield heavy attacks prior to this patch. I'm not talking about a Doylemish proc. I'm simply talking about the two hits from dual-wield heavy attacks adding up to 12K. This happens regardless of whether you build for it, or not. It's one of the ways vampire stamblades do as much damage as they do. As they mitigate the crouch speed penalty, they tend to crouch while ganking. Some patches ago ZOS (re-)instated the mechanic whereby melee heavy attacks from crouch, from the rear, from out of combat do an inordinate amount of damage. Yes, this is quite inconsistent, at least in my own average stamblade gameplay. Nonetheless, what do you think will happen when the stamblade wears, say, Caluurion and one of those heavy attack sets? Or just two of those sets?TheEndBringer wrote: »A NB isn't doing a one shot heavy attack without stacking other sources of damage. For example, Caluurions or Grim Focus proc. They try all the time on me, and I'm also a NB with only 22k health.
Whenever I hit someone, I'm landing 6 to 7 sources of damage within 2 seconds. That takes several steps in a rotation and nothing going wrong.
To be honest, you're right. This is far too much work on a stamblade for something that won't work as consistently as on a DK, although I will say that stamblade gives you the guaranteed crit, which DK does not get. What about (stam)sorc? Unlike Imbued Weapon, Crystal Weapon gives you enough time to wind up a ranged heavy attack, be it from a bow or staff. With hybridisation anything is possible now.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Apropos sorc: Has anyone tested these sets with Overload light attacks? I presume they won't work with those at least.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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This is the PvE perspective. I'll take your word for it, although from my cursory testing, this is not even true. Those weapon / spell damage based sets appear as strong as before on my DK with a lightning heavy attack build on a target dummy. I was testing with Infallible Mage + X, the former being an unchanged set. Nonetheless I'm wondering whether your assessment is simply a foregone conclusion or whether you've tested that. As far as I can see, they have set the weapon / spell damage parameters right where they need to be so as to leave the sets largely unchanged for ligtning heavy attacks, at least on a mag DK with Molten Armaments and Empower.PvP_Exploiter wrote: »The WD/SD increase if far less than flat damage.
HA got nerfed. Except for Storm Caller, for some reason that wasn't updated. Incompetence strikes again.
I have no idea what they were thinking in regards to PvP. Lightning heavy attacks were nasty already, but it was a pretty niche playstyle. Now this has been opened up to more playstyles and to outright crouch ganking with, for example, flame heavy attacks. Historically speaking, this is not new. Heavy attack bow and flame staff DK builds used to be a thing at various points in the past. How ZOS could stumble into this trap again is beyond me, especially when they forbade stamsorc Imbued / Crystal Weapon stacking in the same patch and when they made Crystal Weapon uncrouch you in a previous one.
EDIT: I can see from the PTS forums that people considered these changes a hard nerf for (PvE) lightning heavy attack builds. I guess this must be true for proper builds that had proper PvE testing done with them. Fair enough. Let's not get hung up on that for this discussion, which is about PvP instant heavy attacks, rather than channeled ones. By making this change, ZOS opened the door for these sets to be used with weapons other than lightning staves. These builds are proving exceptionally strong in PvP. When you think about it, a DK can sit in stealth and pop Corrosive Armor too.Edited by fred4 on March 19, 2022 5:34AM1 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hearing reports in zone and guilds of 30k stealth flame heavy attacks in CP Cyro against tanky targets.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance2 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, cause tankiness does not matter when the attacker pops Corrosive. High crit resistance may help some (but only some). People generally don't have much of it anymore.xylena_lazarow wrote: »Hearing reports in zone and guilds of 30k stealth flame heavy attacks in CP Cyro against tanky targets.0 -
Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »Hearing reports in zone and guilds of 30k stealth flame heavy attacks in CP Cyro against tanky targets.
Got hit by a 37k flame heavy attack today, completely fair and balanced. Much skill needed, even after heavy attack sets got nerfed. Was 1v1ing an EP infront of Ales and got hit by it from out of nowhere.Edited by Akinos on March 19, 2022 4:09AMPC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp2 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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That's a lot. Not entirely surprised, though. Maybe the result of heavy attack sets plus group buffs? The reason for this change is entirely opaque to me. Was it for PvP? For PvE? What's clear is that it was merely a change, not a nerf.xylena_lazarow wrote: »Hearing reports in zone and guilds of 30k stealth flame heavy attacks in CP Cyro against tanky targets.
Got hit by a 37k flame heavy attack today, completely fair and balanced. Much skill needed, even after heavy attack sets got nerfed. Was 1v1ing an EP infront of Ales and got hit by it from out of nowhere.0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »Hearing reports in zone and guilds of 30k stealth flame heavy attacks in CP Cyro against tanky targets.
Got hit by a 37k flame heavy attack today, completely fair and balanced. Much skill needed, even after heavy attack sets got nerfed. Was 1v1ing an EP infront of Ales and got hit by it from out of nowhere.
The set nerfs wrecked lightning heavy attack builds. They buffed fire staff heavy attack builds. So I'm seeing the same DK one shots I saw before the patch.
The secret sauce is molten armaments and 100% penetration, not the sets.Edited by katorga on March 19, 2022 2:55PM1 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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That said, do you feel it more appropriate to adjust the sets or the DK class, or do you think everything is just fine the way it is? Personally I would be against diluting DK, especially against adjustments to Corrosive Armor, a skill that is an ultimate after all and one that's already been nerfed as it no longer applies to DOTs.xylena_lazarow wrote: »Hearing reports in zone and guilds of 30k stealth flame heavy attacks in CP Cyro against tanky targets.
Got hit by a 37k flame heavy attack today, completely fair and balanced. Much skill needed, even after heavy attack sets got nerfed. Was 1v1ing an EP infront of Ales and got hit by it from out of nowhere.
The set nerfs wrecked lightning heavy attack builds. They buffed fire staff heavy attack builds. So I'm seeing the same DK one shots I saw before the patch.
The secret sauce is molten armaments and 100% penetration, not the sets.0 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
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That said, do you feel it more appropriate to adjust the sets or the DK class, or do you think everything is just fine the way it is? Personally I would be against diluting DK, especially against adjustments to Corrosive Armor, a skill that is an ultimate after all and one that's already been nerfed as it no longer applies to DOTs.xylena_lazarow wrote: »Hearing reports in zone and guilds of 30k stealth flame heavy attacks in CP Cyro against tanky targets.
Got hit by a 37k flame heavy attack today, completely fair and balanced. Much skill needed, even after heavy attack sets got nerfed. Was 1v1ing an EP infront of Ales and got hit by it from out of nowhere.
The set nerfs wrecked lightning heavy attack builds. They buffed fire staff heavy attack builds. So I'm seeing the same DK one shots I saw before the patch.
The secret sauce is molten armaments and 100% penetration, not the sets.
DKs need to be brought down a little. Not nerfed. But then again, the moment they remotely adjust anything, people freak out. A large segment of players will also always float to easy mode builds because the character is less important to them than the combat.
Corrosive is ridiculous. Just bring the damage down a little. Their heals are also way way over the line, but you can't mess with those without punishing PVE DKs, which is why I think we need a battle spirit adjustment to healing over targeting individual class heals.I drink and I stream things.0 -
Veg✭✭✭✭✭Here is a 37k flame heavy from a nightblade
video: https://imgur.com/8gsktzM
They instantly cloak after the heavy attack so you can never actually see them.Edited by Veg on March 19, 2022 8:03PMᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ0 -
xylena_lazarow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Didn't the devs nerf a bunch of sets to prevent exactly this? What a massive failure and waste of resources.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || RIP old PvP build system || bring Vengeance1 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean all I can do is shake my head. Devs nerfed a pve play style and produced even worse ganks in pvp. Amazing.2 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
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That said, do you feel it more appropriate to adjust the sets or the DK class, or do you think everything is just fine the way it is? Personally I would be against diluting DK, especially against adjustments to Corrosive Armor, a skill that is an ultimate after all and one that's already been nerfed as it no longer applies to DOTs.xylena_lazarow wrote: »Hearing reports in zone and guilds of 30k stealth flame heavy attacks in CP Cyro against tanky targets.
Got hit by a 37k flame heavy attack today, completely fair and balanced. Much skill needed, even after heavy attack sets got nerfed. Was 1v1ing an EP infront of Ales and got hit by it from out of nowhere.
The set nerfs wrecked lightning heavy attack builds. They buffed fire staff heavy attack builds. So I'm seeing the same DK one shots I saw before the patch.
The secret sauce is molten armaments and 100% penetration, not the sets.
In perspective, meh. I get hit with 18K vicious deaths at heck of a lot more than the odd 30K heavy attack. But 50% HA damage is several standard deviations away from most buff values. Molten Armaments should be 10% HA damage. No more.TheEndBringer wrote: »
That said, do you feel it more appropriate to adjust the sets or the DK class, or do you think everything is just fine the way it is? Personally I would be against diluting DK, especially against adjustments to Corrosive Armor, a skill that is an ultimate after all and one that's already been nerfed as it no longer applies to DOTs.xylena_lazarow wrote: »Hearing reports in zone and guilds of 30k stealth flame heavy attacks in CP Cyro against tanky targets.
Got hit by a 37k flame heavy attack today, completely fair and balanced. Much skill needed, even after heavy attack sets got nerfed. Was 1v1ing an EP infront of Ales and got hit by it from out of nowhere.
The set nerfs wrecked lightning heavy attack builds. They buffed fire staff heavy attack builds. So I'm seeing the same DK one shots I saw before the patch.
The secret sauce is molten armaments and 100% penetration, not the sets.
DKs need to be brought down a little. Not nerfed. But then again, the moment they remotely adjust anything, people freak out. A large segment of players will also always float to easy mode builds because the character is less important to them than the combat.
Corrosive is ridiculous. Just bring the damage down a little. Their heals are also way way over the line, but you can't mess with those without punishing PVE DKs, which is why I think we need a battle spirit adjustment to healing over targeting individual class heals.
There is no "down a little" with ZOS; it either gets nerfed hard or it will stay as is.Edited by katorga on March 20, 2022 12:49AM4 -
Master_Kas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here is a 37k flame heavy from a nightblade
video: https://imgur.com/8gsktzM
They instantly cloak after the heavy attack so you can never actually see them.
Ouch. 37k dmg oO
Sure it was a NB and not a DK with invispot? Looked like one but damage seems to high.EU | PC1 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Master_Kas wrote: »Here is a 37k flame heavy from a nightblade
video: https://imgur.com/8gsktzM
They instantly cloak after the heavy attack so you can never actually see them.
Ouch. 37k dmg oO
Sure it was a NB and not a DK with invispot? Looked like one but damage seems to high.
Hard to tell because it looks like they're below that hill. There are definitely ways to get your heavy attacks up like that. Especially if you push for max crit damage. But it's not an easy way to go and that's why you don't see a lot of NBs doing it. I've seen it more often on DKs because it's easier and you aren't surrendering your entire build to just heavies.I drink and I stream things.1 -
luchtt✭✭✭✭
This is the PvE perspective. I'll take your word for it, although from my cursory testing, this is not even true. Those weapon / spell damage based sets appear as strong as before on my DK with a lightning heavy attack build on a target dummy. I was testing with Infallible Mage + X, the former being an unchanged set. Nonetheless I'm wondering whether your assessment is simply a foregone conclusion or whether you've tested that. As far as I can see, they have set the weapon / spell damage parameters right where they need to be so as to leave the sets largely unchanged for ligtning heavy attacks, at least on a mag DK with Molten Armaments and Empower.PvP_Exploiter wrote: »The WD/SD increase if far less than flat damage.
HA got nerfed. Except for Storm Caller, for some reason that wasn't updated. Incompetence strikes again.
I have no idea what they were thinking in regards to PvP. Lightning heavy attacks were nasty already, but it was a pretty niche playstyle. Now this has been opened up to more playstyles and to outright crouch ganking with, for example, flame heavy attacks. Historically speaking, this is not new. Heavy attack bow and flame staff DK builds used to be a thing at various points in the past. How ZOS could stumble into this trap again is beyond me, especially when they forbade stamsorc Imbued / Crystal Weapon stacking in the same patch and when they made Crystal Weapon uncrouch you in a previous one.
EDIT: I can see from the PTS forums that people considered these changes a hard nerf for (PvE) lightning heavy attack builds. I guess this must be true for proper builds that had proper PvE testing done with them. Fair enough. Let's not get hung up on that for this discussion, which is about PvP instant heavy attacks, rather than channeled ones. By making this change, ZOS opened the door for these sets to be used with weapons other than lightning staves. These builds are proving exceptionally strong in PvP. When you think about it, a DK can sit in stealth and pop Corrosive Armor too.
I was the one that made the big thread on the pve HA builds being hard nerfed. I'd like to explain why they still work pretty much just as well in pvp. Flat bonus and spell damage dont scale the same way, the higher you go the more the flat stat bonus will do more (in terms of HA/LA only) the lower you go in dps however, the more equal they become, in pvp this makes it so essentially nothing changed for these builds. In pve however where they weren't a problem at all they are now extremely bad (20-40%) worse than they were before)
People that were using Seargant's Mail + Queen's Elegance only got 1 of their sets truly nerfed (queens elegance which is absolutely awful now dont even look it up, truly murdered lmao) but simply replacing QE with either of the undaunted sets, or infallible aether, will essentially allow you to still 1shot fire HA again. Lightning HA builds in pvp were never that good anyway, as you explained they're fairly niche, can be nasty of course but so can most niche builds if played correctly, so they also remain a bit bad.
Either way, point is that nothing for HA builds changed in pvp. I don't know what they were targeting with the nerfs, but the true result is that pve players (mostsly lower skill players using these sets) will now do a considerable amount less dps, and pvp HA gankers will need to farm crag trials for a bit and continue their business as usual.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Incorrect. I'll repeat: We're now talking about flame staff heavy attacks in PvP. Please get with the programme and stop talking about lightning heavy attacks.Either way, point is that nothing for HA builds changed in pvp.
Enough said? No? The flat damage bonuses were applied to every tick of channeled heavy attacks in the past. That's how those sets did a lot of damage, but only with channeled attacks. I believe that's 4 ticks in case of lightning staff attacks. Flame staves only have 1 tick so to speak. That means flame staff heavy attacks only received 1/4 of the added damage that sets were giving to lightning staff attacks in the past. Now that's not the case. Now flame staves and lightning staves are buffed equally as a whole. That would be fine, if the damage was reasonable in PvP. However you only need to look at the above screenshot to see that it's not.0 -
Evo444✭✭Personally I think it's reasonable. All those hits you see above 30k, chances are that's from someone using corrosive, not from someone without that ult, not a NB in that video(It's a visual bug, the person is a dk actually flanking him from sides/behind 100% sure, also it's possible this person had off-balance on them at the time the heavy attack hit from the person he was in combat with). There's people who slap balorgh and dawnbreaker on a build with 2 defense sets and still kill someone with DB+spin2win, why should someone who goes full offense/no survivability not be able to kill someone with their ult? An ult that isn't always readily available meaning they aren't constantly firing 30k+ heavy attacks. This build will deal far less damage without their ult and yeah that could be ~20k, but that's not gonna oneshot you and if you do die to someone by themselves without the ult from 2 ~20k heavy attacks, what were you doing in between the 3-4 seconds it takes from channeling a heavy and its travel time in the air to land on you?
Now you say "ZOS, why did you do it?" but really those people above should be asked why they did it, they most likely claim they're tanky when all they did was build into taking more damage from this with the combo with the ult. They most likely built into armor in a proc campaign knowing it can get melted by balorghs or completely ignored by corrosive meaning the only helpful passive from heavy armor was the 2% max hp per piece. They most likely built into majority heavy armor increasing their magical damage taken without balancing weight pieces out. They most likely built into vampirism, stage 3 is popular so that's 13% more flame damage, some necro bombers go stage 4 so that's 20% more flame damage.
If you wanna be tankier and not the run around a piece of architecture tanky kind, I'd say get more %less dmg like major/minor protection, so flare and temporal guard if you use transform/buff ult, equip the less single target and less direct dmg blue perks, and check out ironblood and buffer of the swift. It's less damage taken that unpenetrable. If you do go into %less damage and balancing weight of armor pieces, then getting oneshot above 30k shouldn't happen unless you're stage 4 vampire for 20% more flame damage. You can also counter magical damage by being majority light armor.
There's also far worse, more damaging combos in a full offense build that go beyond 40k damage in a pinch, but I don't think people take the time to add the numbers up in the recap from a damage combo as opposed to just seeing 1 big lone heavy attack with the aid of corrosive. The thing that contributed to most damage in this build was never a heavy attack, not the gear sets, not filling up your action bar with buff abilties, not the blue dmg perks, not even molten armaments, it's corrosive. Think of an ult that just lets you ignore 25k/30k/40k/50k resists someone has. That's how powerful corrosive is, that's how important %less dmg is against corrosive. So I hope ZOS doesn't nerf it, because it's an assassination build like any other, except being special by being ranged and 100% of that damage is fire so it'll counter vampires to the fullest, but if they do, I hope the change is to corrosive as that won't interfere with pve'ers with heavy attack builds and people who use heavy attack sets that aren't a dk
Just remember, just like those pvp "best" "OP" build videos that cherry pick low hp people, low resists people, pve'ers in pvp, or people with no reaction time. There's gonna be people who cherry pick this 30k/35k/40k+ heavy attack death recap and say it's overpowered and rightfully so, because they themselves built into more damage from it with built-in weaknesses(They probably won't mention that part). They got countered. ZOS's freedom of choice in making a build for pvp didn't force them to build into those weaknesses.3 -
Reaver999✭✭✭I have a pretty tanky build, definitely not squish, but I have been hit by a few 18-20k heavy inferno attacks.0
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fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Very simple answer: When someone can kill you with a true one-shot from stealth, e.g. in 1 second (1 GCD) with no possible counterplay, that's where I draw the line. If 20K damage was the maximum possible, that would be pretty borderline, but possibly OK. We're talking about 37K as it turns out.There's people who slap balorgh and dawnbreaker on a build with 2 defense sets and still kill someone with DB+spin2win, why should someone who goes full offense/no survivability not be able to kill someone with their ult?
Melee ganks that take two GCDs and include a stun are different. There are counters available. I got hit with one just yesterday and survived via Zoal + Slippery CP.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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This actually does provide some context and explains how my conventionally squishy, light armor, non-vamp magblade only got hit for 21K. I'd have to double-check. I got hit for 25K at one point, but I don't remember which character.They most likely built into armor in a proc campaign knowing it can get melted by balorghs or completely ignored by corrosive meaning the only helpful passive from heavy armor was the 2% max hp per piece. They most likely built into majority heavy armor increasing their magical damage taken without balancing weight pieces out. They most likely built into vampirism, stage 3 is popular so that's 13% more flame damage, some necro bombers go stage 4 so that's 20% more flame damage.
If you wanna be tankier and not the run around a piece of architecture tanky kind, I'd say get more %less dmg like major/minor protection, so flare and temporal guard if you use transform/buff ult, equip the less single target and less direct dmg blue perks, and check out ironblood and buffer of the swift. It's less damage taken that unpenetrable. If you do go into %less damage and balancing weight of armor pieces, then getting oneshot above 30k shouldn't happen unless you're stage 4 vampire for 20% more flame damage. You can also counter magical damage by being majority light armor.
The reason all of those things you mentioned aren't really an alternative to high armor in general is that (a) they've almost all been nerfed into the 5% to 10% range bar something like Ironblood, and (b) they don't add up. Literally. Due to the multiplicative nature of mitigations, high armor and blocking remain the two most effective mitigation factors, because they are far larger than other individual factors. While I find Ironclad CP advisable and maybe one or two other factors like it, that tends to be weak sauce. There is a reason many people run high armor and, conversely, building into penetration remains a meta option.
And rightfully so. See my last post.There's also far worse, more damaging combos in a full offense build that go beyond 40k damage in a pinch, but I don't think people take the time to add the numbers up in the recap from a damage combo as opposed to just seeing 1 big lone heavy attack with the aid of corrosive.
Look, you almost have me. You and the fact that this thread, while gaining views, has not accumulated agrees. I also do not want ZOS to nerf Corrosive. That would, in fact, be the worst outcome I can think of. I do not wish light / heavy attacks excluded from Corrosive. The skill has been nerfed enough. I do wish for ZOS to do something about stacking for this particular attack in PvP. Basically revert the sets, because I think the change was ill-conceived and no satisfactory reason was given. ZOS, do you hear me? Don't you go and nerf something other than the thing you broke, for once.
I got hit with this myself.Just remember, just like those pvp "best" "OP" build videos that cherry pick low hp people, low resists people, pve'ers in pvp, or people with no reaction time.
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fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Come to think of it, a minor nerf of restricting all of those sets to activate only in combat would do the trick. Noble Duelist effectively has that restriction already. It only activates after the first light / heavy attack you do, not for the first one itself.0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »Master_Kas wrote: »Here is a 37k flame heavy from a nightblade
video: https://imgur.com/8gsktzM
They instantly cloak after the heavy attack so you can never actually see them.
Ouch. 37k dmg oO
Sure it was a NB and not a DK with invispot? Looked like one but damage seems to high.
Hard to tell because it looks like they're below that hill. There are definitely ways to get your heavy attacks up like that. Especially if you push for max crit damage. But it's not an easy way to go and that's why you don't see a lot of NBs doing it. I've seen it more often on DKs because it's easier and you aren't surrendering your entire build to just heavies.
I don't think it's possible to use guaranteed crit and heavy flame (at least fully charged). 3s timeframe window isn't enough, tested on dummies.1 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Come to think of it, a minor nerf of restricting all of those sets to activate only in combat would do the trick. Noble Duelist effectively has that restriction already. It only activates after the first light / heavy attack you do, not for the first one itself.
I think this damage is coming off https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail which has unconditional boost. But I believe this happened to https://eso-sets.com/set/titanborn-strength before.
I don't think it will stop the ganks with it really, you would just duo with your tank friend.0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Come to think of it, a minor nerf of restricting all of those sets to activate only in combat would do the trick. Noble Duelist effectively has that restriction already. It only activates after the first light / heavy attack you do, not for the first one itself.
I think this damage is coming off https://eso-sets.com/set/sergeants-mail which has unconditional boost. But I believe this happened to https://eso-sets.com/set/titanborn-strength before.
I don't think it will stop the ganks with it really, you would just duo with your tank friend.
Fire staff heavies use sergeants because it has a higher value than the infiltrator sets. It doesn't matter if the set has an "in combat" condition because you always lead with a skill that gives you empower so you are going to be in combat anyway.
Either way, the changes allow you to hit 37K, which I think is the maximum possible heavy in pvp with every star aligned (empower, off balance, 100% penetration, 5% DK fire damage passive, all related CP, and 50% molten armaments). I was seeing 37K heavies before the change. I am seeing 37K heavies after the change.
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Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Each class should get 15% damage done for their specific element to make us care about elements.
Heavy attacks though?
We’re talking about some lame oneshot PvP builds that are messing it up for everyone. It’s mostly DKs (Molten Arms+Corrosive) and NBs (cloak guaranteed crit). Just make the heavy attack sets only work against non-player enemies.1 -
Evo444✭✭The reason all of those things you mentioned aren't really an alternative to high armor in general is that (a) they've almost all been nerfed into the 5% to 10% range bar something like Ironblood, and (b) they don't add up. Literally. Due to the multiplicative nature of mitigations, high armor and blocking remain the two most effective mitigation factors, because they are far larger than other individual factors. While I find Ironclad CP advisable and maybe one or two other factors like it, that tends to be weak sauce. There is a reason many people run high armor and, conversely, building into penetration remains a meta option.
Even though the stacking of it is multiplicative, it's still better than stacking armor(which is going to damage that's halved). Besides people running balorghs or corrosive like in this build making armor pointless, think of it like this, you start a new build on a magsorc, from armor alone you have 13k spell resists, you decide say aetherial ascension for ~9k armor for a light armor body set, that brings you up 22k spell resists. Gankers with full damage setups already have a headstart on you, they could have around 24k penetration with extra 2k if they're a NB. Thah aetherial ascension made your defense go from 0 to 0. If you buffer of the swift, now you at least got some defense. Now if we get balorghs and corrosive involved0