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Endgame Raiders
karekiz
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The little amount of endgame raiders with this patch have fled. I have already seen mass teams quit.
[snip]
[edited for mild baiting]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 14, 2022 5:19PM [snip]
[edited for mild baiting]
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Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People have been claiming ESO/some part of it is dead or dying since it launched, and yet it's still here.Edited by Arunei on March 14, 2022 3:17PMPC-NA | Been around since closed beta
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time17 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭1 team is dead, another is being kept afloat by sheer willpower, a third is trying to get on it's feet but can't keep a roster going.
I'm applying for any and every core I see, but the game is saturated with healers and there are no openings....
I'm getting discouraged.0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »1 team is dead, another is being kept afloat by sheer willpower, a third is trying to get on it's feet but can't keep a roster going.
I'm applying for any and every core I see, but the game is saturated with healers and there are no openings....
I'm getting discouraged.
If you want to be active in ESO endgame you can't pigeon hole yourself into a single role.
Work on improving as a DPS or become a good tank and you'll have a lot more opportunities to grow in endgame.
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jle30303✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saturated with healers? There used to be a shortage, which made for much shorter queues for healers. I guess this meant that everybody wants to play healer, which has now created a surplus... Supply and demand.0 -
FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FantasticFreddie wrote: »1 team is dead, another is being kept afloat by sheer willpower, a third is trying to get on it's feet but can't keep a roster going.
I'm applying for any and every core I see, but the game is saturated with healers and there are no openings....
I'm getting discouraged.
If you want to be active in ESO endgame you can't pigeon hole yourself into a single role.
Work on improving as a DPS or become a good tank and you'll have a lot more opportunities to grow in endgame.
The thing is, I don't actually enjoy those roles.
I have a dps that was about 85, 87k on a good day. Have all my basic vet clears and a sprinkle of +1s as dps, but I don't really like it. I have no desire to get a trifecta as a dps.
Same with tank. I tank dungeons and pledges with friends, have tank gear, have basic vet clears as a tank..... but I don't love it, I don't want to go chase trifectas as a tank.
It's always been a little harder to find a team as a healer main, and I've always accepted that, but this time feels different. There are fewer teams to even apply for.0 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭file this with PVP is dead/DC killed the game/over land is to easy etc etc
pretty sure 1% of the game QQing is going to be noticed (its not btw)2 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Endgame always has churn. This is nothing new.
Endgame always has churn, but I haven't seen as broad a turnover as this before. Maybe it's just all coincidence, but the net is that in places where I know the leads and a good chunk of the likely roster, few to no runs are happening that are a match for me. I'm not a candidate for pug-<insert trial tri>.1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »Endgame always has churn. This is nothing new.
Endgame always has churn, but I haven't seen as broad a turnover as this before. Maybe it's just all coincidence, but the net is that in places where I know the leads and a good chunk of the likely roster, few to no runs are happening that are a match for me. I'm not a candidate for pug-<insert trial tri>.
I've noticed a shift away from progression even before this patch though. Post a pug GS attempt and it fills and I have to roster skip people.
Post a GS core and I get 7 healer applicants, a few DDs, and no tanks.0 -
Alienoutlaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭maybe the "endgame elite" simply just shot themselves in the foot with their "requirements" its far easier to farm healer and tank sets to get into a prog/core group than it is to meet the 120k dps most groups wanted, not all players can hit those numbers not all are interested in hitting those numbers. when you shoot fish in a barrel eventually you run out of fish
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p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »Endgame always has churn. This is nothing new.
Endgame always has churn, but I haven't seen as broad a turnover as this before. Maybe it's just all coincidence, but the net is that in places where I know the leads and a good chunk of the likely roster, few to no runs are happening that are a match for me. I'm not a candidate for pug-<insert trial tri>.
I've noticed a shift away from progression even before this patch though. Post a pug GS attempt and it fills and I have to roster skip people.
Post a GS core and I get 7 healer applicants, a few DDs, and no tanks.
That depends on where you post it. In a discord like Esoruns, most of us already have all or most of our titles and trifectas, so we're just looking to pug or push scores, but there are plenty of discords out there full of mid tier players looking for opportunities to gain experience. I sub for core groups of these players pretty often. I even know of a group starting at the beginning and teaching completely inexperienced players core trial mechanics.PC/Xbox NA
Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »Endgame always has churn. This is nothing new.
Endgame always has churn, but I haven't seen as broad a turnover as this before. Maybe it's just all coincidence, but the net is that in places where I know the leads and a good chunk of the likely roster, few to no runs are happening that are a match for me. I'm not a candidate for pug-<insert trial tri>.
I've noticed a shift away from progression even before this patch though. Post a pug GS attempt and it fills and I have to roster skip people.
Post a GS core and I get 7 healer applicants, a few DDs, and no tanks.
That depends on where you post it. In a discord like Esoruns, most of us already have all or most of our titles and trifectas, so we're just looking to pug or push scores, but there are plenty of discords out there full of mid tier players looking for opportunities to gain experience. I sub for core groups of these players pretty often. I even know of a group starting at the beginning and teaching completely inexperienced players core trial mechanics.
I find that a lot of them just want the quick clears so they can apply to trifecta cores that they won't get rostered for because they aren't experienced enough. There's a real reluctance to do progression at many levels. I don't expect people who already have Godslayer to sign up for a prog unless they're trying a brand new role or trying to help a friend get a clear or something.
I advertise in ESO runs but only because it's such a large hub, the bulk of my applicants aren't from there (keeping in mind I'm a raid lead in a fairly large mid tier raiding discord, and a GM of a medium sized low to mid tier raiding discord). What I do see is the people who should be applying for progs attempting to sign up (and getting roster skipped) for pug trifectas. I have way more applicants for my 'intro to vet trials' and HM cores than I do for my trifecta cores.1 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I agree, it is very sad to see. I wonder if this is the goal though. The first mass exodus was the PvP crowd. PvP used to be pretty much the endgame in ESO, and now it’s basically dead. Now it seems that the endgame PVE crowd is the next mass exodus. The common denominator is that both activities are somewhat competitive, skill based, and combat intensive. ESO is just becoming extremely casual all around, so these types of players will not be challenged and will have nothing to do.People have been claiming ESO/some part of it is dead or dying since it launched, and yet it's still here.
You have to understand that there are essentially two different games being played here. There is the ESO with housing, quests, fishing, and all the other casual activities. Then there’s the part of ESO that is combat intensive. The combat intensive ESO is definitely dying or dead already. If you’ve been around long enough, you’d see just how dead PvP and endgame PVE are compared to a few years ago. I’m sure the casual ESO will continue to thrive however, it’s just a completely different demographic that barely gets affected by poor balance changes/ bad performance.
PC NA and Xbox NA5 -
TiberX✭✭✭✭New endgamers will merge then. It wouldn't be the first time. CheersOfficer of Ghosts and Goblins0 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
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I've noticed a shift away from progression even before this patch though. Post a pug GS attempt and it fills and I have to roster skip people.
Post a GS core and I get 7 healer applicants, a few DDs, and no tanks.
I don't think this patch is doing anything more than continuing/slightly accelerating an unfortunate trend, but yes.
That depends on where you post it. In a discord like Esoruns, most of us already have all or most of our titles and trifectas, so we're just looking to pug or push scores, but there are plenty of discords out there full of mid tier players looking for opportunities to gain experience. I sub for core groups of these players pretty often. I even know of a group starting at the beginning and teaching completely inexperienced players core trial mechanics.
I don't doubt that there are still communities out there in the less experienced space. I just have few to no connections to them, and given how long it takes me to be comfortable with a completely new set of people, I have little hope that I'll be raiding frequently in the future. I still have one good dungeon tri group that's cohesive but that's about it for me now.1 -
Susinok1✭✭✭The toxic casuals have spoken, LOL. Get to end game then tell us what you think.Edited by ZOS_Icy on March 14, 2022 5:21PM3
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sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alienoutlaw wrote: »maybe the "endgame elite" simply just shot themselves in the foot with their "requirements" its far easier to farm healer and tank sets to get into a prog/core group than it is to meet the 120k dps most groups wanted, not all players can hit those numbers not all are interested in hitting those numbers. when you shoot fish in a barrel eventually you run out of fish
On PC, parse counts for nothing in endgame. Show logs that you can perform at the level the core is intended to start at.
If you can't do that, then the core is not a good fit and you should look for one compatible with your playstyle and level of play.1 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »
I've noticed a shift away from progression even before this patch though. Post a pug GS attempt and it fills and I have to roster skip people.
Post a GS core and I get 7 healer applicants, a few DDs, and no tanks.
I don't think this patch is doing anything more than continuing/slightly accelerating an unfortunate trend, but yes.
That depends on where you post it. In a discord like Esoruns, most of us already have all or most of our titles and trifectas, so we're just looking to pug or push scores, but there are plenty of discords out there full of mid tier players looking for opportunities to gain experience. I sub for core groups of these players pretty often. I even know of a group starting at the beginning and teaching completely inexperienced players core trial mechanics.
I don't doubt that there are still communities out there in the less experienced space. I just have few to no connections to them, and given how long it takes me to be comfortable with a completely new set of people, I have little hope that I'll be raiding frequently in the future. I still have one good dungeon tri group that's cohesive but that's about it for me now.
Hey, you know me. I'm starting a HM core, you should swing by my discord and take a look and see if it fits what you're looking for. I think I've only had one tank apply, 75 healers, and 4-5 DDs. As is tradition. I'm intending to go from HMs to trifectas with that group eventually. 0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
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OP’s post is pessimistic but they’re not incorrect.People have been claiming ESO/some part of it is dead or dying since it launched, and yet it's still here.
ESO as a whole is doing well because it is propped up almost entirely by the casual questing crowd. This does not mean the countless mistakes from ZOS have been ignored..... basically:
• Insane PvP lag = PvP population became minuscule
• Horrible balance+Lack of incentives = Endgame trials community is small
It’s depressing to see fewer than a hundred people (across the entire megaserver!) appear on the Vet Vateshran Hollows leaderboard when it’s the weekly trial+weekly endeavor for it.....7 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
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OP’s post is pessimistic but they’re not incorrect.People have been claiming ESO/some part of it is dead or dying since it launched, and yet it's still here.
ESO as a whole is doing well because it is propped up almost entirely by the casual questing crowd. This does not mean the countless mistakes from ZOS have been ignored..... basically:
• Insane PvP lag = PvP population became minuscule
• Horrible balance+Lack of incentives = Endgame trials community is small
It’s depressing to see fewer than a hundred people (across the entire megaserver!) appear on the Vet Vateshran Hollows leaderboard when it’s the weekly trial+weekly endeavor for it.....
Okay but it's not perfectly representative either. I hate solo arenas and don't scorepush them, in fact I can't remember the last time I set foot in one.
Got Godslayer twice in the past month though, and another Gryphon Heart, and finally cleared Rockgrove HM.1 -
DagenHawk✭✭✭✭✭Maybe it has something to do with accusing people of being a fake tank/Fake healer and treating people who want to try end game horribly.
Oh and of course the whole "Toxic casual" hyperbole
I honestly think if those things were addressed there would be a larger end game community. Lets face it the end game players aren't as welcoming as the main community, and many people feel that the only reason the current end game still exists is because the devs want to make the type of game they want to play instead of the game that has the most players and brings in the most cash.Edited by DagenHawk on March 14, 2022 4:51PM3 -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alienoutlaw wrote: »maybe the "endgame elite" simply just shot themselves in the foot with their "requirements" its far easier to farm healer and tank sets to get into a prog/core group than it is to meet the 120k dps most groups wanted, not all players can hit those numbers not all are interested in hitting those numbers. when you shoot fish in a barrel eventually you run out of fish
I came from Xbox to PC, so I know that console support can get away with just showing up with gear and not doing much else, but on PC we have logs, and support who just phone it in don't tend to last long if they show no interest in improving. Those on all roles who show an interest in improving are usually given coaching and offered various forms of help on all roles however.
Not being able to hit those numbers isn't the end of the world or a total deal breaker unless you're trying to join a team pushing a difficult trifecta or a score. If you're not able to pull your weight in one of those scenarios and you're asking to be on that team, you may just be in the wrong place. There are teams with lower dps requirements who will accept differently abled or more casual minded players. Play as you want means everyone gets to play however they want, from lower/mid dps heavy attack builds all the way up to the sweatiest of strict meta loadouts. What it doesn't mean is "play as you want with whomever you want".
Maybe calling people who play the game the way they want "endgame elite" like that isn't a very productive way to go. We're all in this together and that kind of approach isn't helpful of constructive.PC/Xbox NA
Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero2 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maybe it has something to do with accusing people of being a fake tank/Fake healer and treating people who want to try end game horribly.
Oh and of course the whole "Toxic casual" hyperbole
I honestly think if those things were addressed there would be a larger end game community. Lets face it the end game players aren't as welcoming as the main community, and many people feel that the only reason the current end game still exists is because the devs want to make the type of game they want to play instead of the game that has the most players and brings in the most cash.
Endgame isn't welcome to 15K max DPS players wanting to sign up for a Godslayer core. But if those same players join a progression core aimed at their level of player, and improve as they go, they'll then be welcomed into HM cores (when ready) and eventually trifecta or even scorepushing cores (when ready). The rate at which individuals are ready for these levels of difficulty varies greatly. It all depends on how much time they're willing to put in practicing and farming gear etc.
Btw endgamers are the ones who fake tank/heal random normals. Not the ones getting mad at people for doing it. LOL.3 -
Paralyse✭✭✭✭✭Elden Ring is a thing.
Despite that, I ran 6 vet trials yesterday between 2 toons, including a vKA speedrun, pretty sure ESO is not dead and neither are trials.
I'm in 4 different trials run discords, and 2 separate trials guilds, we have no problem filling progs ranging from vCR+0 trainers up to TTT/GS/GH progs including ASAP runs and core groups.
Also, using Vet Vateshran as a benchmark for anything is somewhat questionable logic, Vateshran was not popular when it came out, still isn't popular (especially in vet) due to most set drops being off-meta and the higher difficulty vs. vMA.
Paralyse, Sanguine's Tester - Enjoying ESO since beta. Trial clears: vSS HM, Crag HM's, vRG Oax HM, vMoL DD, vKA HM, vCR+1, vAS IR, vDSR, vSE1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
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OP’s post is pessimistic but they’re not incorrect.People have been claiming ESO/some part of it is dead or dying since it launched, and yet it's still here.
ESO as a whole is doing well because it is propped up almost entirely by the casual questing crowd. This does not mean the countless mistakes from ZOS have been ignored..... basically:
• Insane PvP lag = PvP population became minuscule
• Horrible balance+Lack of incentives = Endgame trials community is small
It’s depressing to see fewer than a hundred people (across the entire megaserver!) appear on the Vet Vateshran Hollows leaderboard when it’s the weekly trial+weekly endeavor for it.....
Okay but it's not perfectly representative either. I hate solo arenas and don't scorepush them, in fact I can't remember the last time I set foot in one.
Got Godslayer twice in the past month though, and another Gryphon Heart, and finally cleared Rockgrove HM.
Arenas are supposed to get a lot of attention exactly because they‘e solo, as well as last week having a “Complete 1 Arena” weekly endeavor and Vatehsran being the weekly. This low pop is also reflected in all trial leaderboards......
I have console first Planesbreaker and still the only group on my server to have the achievement. Do you really want to tell me that getting some godslayers means endgame has enough players lol. Gg on the completes, but maybe you don’t remember/weren’t there for when endgame PvE was more popular (particularly vMoL days).1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
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OP’s post is pessimistic but they’re not incorrect.People have been claiming ESO/some part of it is dead or dying since it launched, and yet it's still here.
ESO as a whole is doing well because it is propped up almost entirely by the casual questing crowd. This does not mean the countless mistakes from ZOS have been ignored..... basically:
• Insane PvP lag = PvP population became minuscule
• Horrible balance+Lack of incentives = Endgame trials community is small
It’s depressing to see fewer than a hundred people (across the entire megaserver!) appear on the Vet Vateshran Hollows leaderboard when it’s the weekly trial+weekly endeavor for it.....
Okay but it's not perfectly representative either. I hate solo arenas and don't scorepush them, in fact I can't remember the last time I set foot in one.
Got Godslayer twice in the past month though, and another Gryphon Heart, and finally cleared Rockgrove HM.
Arenas are supposed to get a lot of attention exactly because they‘e solo, as well as last week having a “Complete 1 Arena” weekly endeavor and Vatehsran being the weekly. This low pop is also reflected in all trial leaderboards......
I have console first Planesbreaker and still the only group on my server to have the achievement. Do you really want to tell me that getting some godslayers means endgame has enough players lol. Gg on the completes, but maybe you don’t remember/weren’t there for when endgame PvE was more popular (particularly vMoL days).
VMoL days also predates Trifecta's <Full HM - ND - SR - one run>. Its possible that Trifecta themselves just aren't a great endgame activity in the end.
They had/have things like Dro-m'Athra but its very seperated.0 -
sarahthes✭✭✭✭✭
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OP’s post is pessimistic but they’re not incorrect.People have been claiming ESO/some part of it is dead or dying since it launched, and yet it's still here.
ESO as a whole is doing well because it is propped up almost entirely by the casual questing crowd. This does not mean the countless mistakes from ZOS have been ignored..... basically:
• Insane PvP lag = PvP population became minuscule
• Horrible balance+Lack of incentives = Endgame trials community is small
It’s depressing to see fewer than a hundred people (across the entire megaserver!) appear on the Vet Vateshran Hollows leaderboard when it’s the weekly trial+weekly endeavor for it.....
Okay but it's not perfectly representative either. I hate solo arenas and don't scorepush them, in fact I can't remember the last time I set foot in one.
Got Godslayer twice in the past month though, and another Gryphon Heart, and finally cleared Rockgrove HM.
Arenas are supposed to get a lot of attention exactly because they‘e solo, as well as last week having a “Complete 1 Arena” weekly endeavor and Vatehsran being the weekly. This low pop is also reflected in all trial leaderboards......
I have console first Planesbreaker and still the only group on my server to have the achievement. Do you really want to tell me that getting some godslayers means endgame has enough players lol. Gg on the completes, but maybe you don’t remember/weren’t there for when endgame PvE was more popular (particularly vMoL days).
All I said was not all endgamers do solo arenas. Some only do trials, some only do arenas, some do both, some try to solo dungeon trifectas... they're all different endgame PvE environments and just because one aspect has low participation doesn't mean endgame itself is failing. It's never been big from what I've seen; in fact it's been fairly constant with people coming and going.
I started playing just before Summerset released but my first trial was normal Sunspire. That said I've played with most of the competitive endgamers on PC NA even though I'm not at their level. I'm very aware of the current endgame community on PC NA.0 -
Paralyse✭✭✭✭✭@Alienoutlaw
I rarely see groups require more than 100k dps even for the sweatiest content (GS, TTT, GH, PB, vCR+3 portal skip, whatever)
You can run vCrags at 40k and most other vet trials at 65-70k. This provides a bit of cushion for the team to allow for the fact that not everyone is going to nail every fight mechanic every time and there will be recovery needed now and then.
Effective tanking and healing require more than just meta and situational sets. Tanks without knowledge of key fight mechanics or proper positioning are made apparent fairly quickly, same thing for healers, especially in roles like vSS or vCR portal healing, or when serving as kite healers in vRG, vAS+x, whatever.
Also, as healers in trials, we parse too (heals per second, overhealing, etc.)
Paralyse, Sanguine's Tester - Enjoying ESO since beta. Trial clears: vSS HM, Crag HM's, vRG Oax HM, vMoL DD, vKA HM, vCR+1, vAS IR, vDSR, vSE2 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭It just got easier to hit big numbers, maybe healers should give the dps thing another go. I don’t think you could blame the hybrid thing on people leaving, perhaps the achievements combination, but most likely it’s other games that came out. That’s what it always has been, and a lot would come back eventually when that new stuff gets old0
