Assuming you have the buffs needed to hit the crit damage cap and you have a certain amount of critical chance, it overtakes other forms of damage boosting. The crit chance needed has a lot of variables, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's somewhere around 75% - 80% which should be very easy for mag toons to hit, especially in optimized group situations. At 60% crit chance you may not be seeing the full benefit, depending on other variables in your testing.

francesinhalover wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Assuming you have the buffs needed to hit the crit damage cap and you have a certain amount of critical chance, it overtakes other forms of damage boosting. The crit chance needed has a lot of variables, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's somewhere around 75% - 80% which should be very easy for mag toons to hit, especially in optimized group situations. At 60% crit chance you may not be seeing the full benefit, depending on other variables in your testing.

I am stam yes. Backstabber was close to reaching wraithful , but had a hard time.

Test it on trial dummy and check out SkinnyCheeks on YT for detailed info

It would be used if crit damage isn’t near the cap of 125%, sometimes it doesn’t do the most dps

Let’s say you have 5 medium armor, tzogvin Warband, war horn active, harpooners kilt, someone in group using a frost glyph on a charged weapon, nightblade’s hemorrhage passive,

That comes to 120% crit damage, so backstabber only gives 5% of its 15%. It’s not worth it in that case

But if it was a sorc in 5 medium instead of nightblade, you can make use of the full 15%, going from 110 to 125%

How much damage backstabber adds depends on the crit%. If it’s 60% crit chance:

Backstabber adds 100x [(2.25 x .6 + .4) - (2.1 x .6 + .4)] / (2.1 x .6 + .4) = 5.4% to damage that can crit. (Relequen doesnt crit)

That’s a tad higher than most other CP stars, it’s not easy to compare using just dps numbers because crit RNG can shift your dps by a few percent

If you want to compare that to a CP that adds weapon/spell damage, it depends of the amount of weapon damage/ stamina you already have. Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of recent guides for damage calculation

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318595/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/p1

Alternatively UESP has a build editor that fills in values for damage based on stats

https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

It would be used if crit damage isn’t near the cap of 125%, sometimes it doesn’t do the most dps

Let’s say you have 5 medium armor, tzogvin Warband, war horn active, harpooners kilt, someone in group using a frost glyph on a charged weapon, nightblade’s hemorrhage passive,

That comes to 120% crit damage, so backstabber only gives 5% of its 15%. It’s not worth it in that case

But if it was a sorc in 5 medium instead of nightblade, you can make use of the full 15%, going from 110 to 125%

How much damage backstabber adds depends on the crit%. If it’s 60% crit chance:

Backstabber adds 100x [(2.25 x .6 + .4) - (2.1 x .6 + .4)] / (2.1 x .6 + .4) = 5.4% to damage that can crit. (Relequen doesnt crit)

That’s a tad higher than most other CP stars, it’s not easy to compare using just dps numbers because crit RNG can shift your dps by a few percent

If you want to compare that to a CP that adds weapon/spell damage, it depends of the amount of weapon damage/ stamina you already have. Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of recent guides for damage calculation

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318595/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/p1

Alternatively UESP has a build editor that fills in values for damage based on stats

https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

Amazing reply, ill send a screenshot of my character.
I have 6 medium and 1 light...i have no idea if i should go 5 medium 2 lights.

francesinhalover wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Because in a proper group, it results in more DPS than the other options. That's pretty much the full story.

Why? I tested on both dung and trial dummy

When you ask this, what you're really asking is "what's different between my setup/rotation/etc and someone else's that gives us different results" and that's a much harder question to answer without a lot of detail on your testing. CMX output or a log would be a good place to start. Since you're in medium armor I think, are you certain you're not over the crit damage cap, at least on the trial dummy? Because that would definitely hurt the crit damage CP.

If you're not khajiit, not using axes, and not a Templar or nb then I think on the trial dummy you'll be just over cap with backstabber. 50 base, 20 major force, 10 minor brittle, 10 kilt, 10 minor force, 12 medium armor puts you at 112.

The trial dummy gives 100% uptime on major force and minor brittle. They won't be there on the smaller dummies. Major and minor force do stack.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Because in a proper group, it results in more DPS than the other options. That's pretty much the full story.

Why? I tested on both dung and trial dummy

Any chance you could give us any info on the parses? CMX would be great, but even just the raw DPS numbers might shed some light. Assuming these are full parses, 100-0 on a trial dummy?

dps, is legit dmg per second, i don't see a reason to 100-0 a dummy, that would take 10mins of my life.

kringled_1 wrote: »

If you aren't running your tests consistently and with some length then it's harder to interpret the results. I don't know if what you're seeing is just variability in crits or in the intervals that your tools are reporting, or if maybe you're seeing the effects of the sorcerer amplitude passive, etc.

i did 5 tests for each cp passive.

I wouldn't mind if some other user did the tests too.

francesinhalover wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

It would be used if crit damage isn’t near the cap of 125%, sometimes it doesn’t do the most dps

Let’s say you have 5 medium armor, tzogvin Warband, war horn active, harpooners kilt, someone in group using a frost glyph on a charged weapon, nightblade’s hemorrhage passive,

That comes to 120% crit damage, so backstabber only gives 5% of its 15%. It’s not worth it in that case

But if it was a sorc in 5 medium instead of nightblade, you can make use of the full 15%, going from 110 to 125%

How much damage backstabber adds depends on the crit%. If it’s 60% crit chance:

Backstabber adds 100x [(2.25 x .6 + .4) - (2.1 x .6 + .4)] / (2.1 x .6 + .4) = 5.4% to damage that can crit. (Relequen doesnt crit)

That’s a tad higher than most other CP stars, it’s not easy to compare using just dps numbers because crit RNG can shift your dps by a few percent

If you want to compare that to a CP that adds weapon/spell damage, it depends of the amount of weapon damage/ stamina you already have. Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of recent guides for damage calculation

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318595/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/p1

Alternatively UESP has a build editor that fills in values for damage based on stats

https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

Amazing reply, ill send a screenshot of my character.
I have 6 medium and 1 light...i have no idea if i should go 5 medium 2 lights.

Maybe just try something simple, like use a skill a few times on a plain target dummy and check how much damage was dealt with and without crit. Also be aware that bloodthirsty traits on jewelry will throw off a test if you compare things at different target dummy health percentages. If you aren’t killing the dummy completely you’d probably just want to test around 100%-90%, then pick up and replace the dummy on the ground to reset

But yeah, I checked out damage results in the past, 129 weapon damage (184 weapon damage when buffed by major/minor brutality + 5 medium armor slotted + 1 fighters guild slotted) from a set buff added about 2% more damage for me. I tend to have around 5000 weapon damage / 35000 stamina. If you add the numbers to the uesp skill browser, then compare again with 5184 weapon damage (129x1.43) /35000 stamina, the damage value goes up 2%