tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

I can't speak to the poison, but instead of running 4-piece of False God's, I would run 3-piece of False God's + a 1-piece monster set. 1-piece Slimecraw would give you ~0.5% more critical than the 4th piece of False God's, or Valkyn Skoria would give you 1400 offensive penetration. Obviously depends on what your penetration currently is on the boss.

Good luck with your parse!

Yeah. I was looking at that. Could be a good way to get my piece of heavy in for the undaunted passive too.

Not sure if i need more pen right now or not but i do have valkyn

status effect dmg from stuff like burning, poisoned, diseased, etc is generally pretty low-moderate dmg

burning i think is the highest dmg status effect, as most of the other status effects are also coupled with debuffs (burning is pure dmg)

diseased status effect also applies minor defile
hemorrhaging status applies debuff that reduces target by 10% max hp (if applicable)
concussed applies minor vulnerability

etc

if your slotting actual consumable poisons instead of something that can proc a status effect those can definitely apply stronger DoTs

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

status effect dmg from stuff like burning, poisoned, diseased, etc is generally pretty low-moderate dmg

burning i think is the highest dmg status effect, as most of the other status effects are also coupled with debuffs (burning is pure dmg)

diseased status effect also applies minor defile
hemorrhaging status applies debuff that reduces target by 10% max hp (if applicable)
concussed applies minor vulnerability

etc

if your slotting actual consumable poisons instead of something that can proc a status effect those can definitely apply stronger DoTs

The reason im slotting it is due the use of destructive reach. And masters staff First hit procs burning so im getting a really high uptime on burning to begin with.

However the damage proc from enchants i was always lead to believe equated to higher dps than poisons regardless of status effects hence the use of those over double dot poisons.

My own resilts are saying otherwise though

Poisons were meta for years outclassing enchants for Stam DPS during CP 1.0.

Some changes that effected the meta:

1. Weapon line changes = Enchants for Dual Wield were nerfed by -50% damage about 3 years ago, where as before, you could have 2 enchants for 100% the value. This really only effected stamina dps because DW couldn't be used effectively on magicka.
2. CP 2.0 changes = dot and direct damage bonuses are now capped at 10% where as before, you were able to get about 19-23% dot damage and 9-12% direct damage. A lot of players DPS setups don't even grab the dot CP star anymore since we're capped at 4 options. So instead of the ratio being 22% dot to 11% direct, it's more like 0-10% dot to 10% direct.
3. CP 2.0 changes = All enchants and poisons now scale equally due to penetration and % bonuses being even, where as before, you were locked into martial or magical damage types for everything you did. Poisons weren't an option for magicka dps and flame enchants (therefore burning status effect) wasn't an option for stam dps... so stam dps with DW only had Poisoned as a notable damage status effect which does less than burning. Disease and Absorb Stamina enchants were the only remaining options. Diseased is a bad dps status effect and absorb stamina enchants didn't have a physical status effect while also having half the damage since they returned stamina.
4. CP 2.0 changes = Chance to apply status effects is now increased by 60% at default. This means enchants (the highest base % chance) now have a 32% chance to proc a status effect instead of a 20% chance. With a Destruction staff, that is 52%.
5. Charged trait on weapons buffed = 480% for a 2H or 240% for a 1H. A charged 1H weapon = 80% total chance. Charged 2H weapon = 128% total chance, 148% if Destruction staff. A bit of an overkill, which is why it may be better to use double dot poisons if you have a charged destruction staff if you can get burning from your regular abilities.
6. Weapon line changes = Magicka builds can now use Dual Wield. 2 enchants = 2 status effects.
7. Enchants are free.

So keep in mind.. Double dot poisons only do poison dot damage. With CP 1.0 this meant only Stam DPS were able to use them, but it was meta. Combine everything above and you get a situation where double dot poisons had more reliable DPS for stamina toons since status effects weren't something they were necessarily aiming for, martial status effects aren't as strong and enchants were nerfed on DW. At a 20% status effect chance for enchants, it wasn't a notable reason to use them over double dot poisons. Poisons had the cp buff for 20% dot damage vs an enchants 10% direct as well so they often times came out ahead.

About status effects:

• Fire = Burning = 3 ticks, 4s duration. Ticks at 0s, 2s, and 4s. High dot damage. **Since it ticks once when applied, you are still benefiting if you apply it before the 4s duration finishes. Fire damage is further buffed by unique sources in the game. DK's passive 5% and 50%, DK's 10% Flame debuff on breath, Encratis Monster set for 5%, and 20% from wall of elements.
• Poison = Poisoned = 4 ticks, 6s duration. Ticks at 0s, 2s, 4s and 6s. Medium dot Damage. ** ZOS balanced this dot vs burning with a lower damage per tick because it lasts a longer duration, but since status effects are easily applied before they expire and a large chunk of burning damage is from the first tick, poisoned often times comes out lower in DPS vs burning even without all the other flame buffs present in the game. It also gets some unique buffs, although not as many. 5% DK, 50% DK. 10% Morag Tong 5 piece set.
• Bleed = Hemorphaging = 3 ticks, 4s duration. Ticks at 0s, 2s and 4s. Low dot Damage. Minor Mangle Debuff for -10% health.
• Disease = Diseased = 3 ticks, 4s duration. Ticks at 0s, 2s and 4s. Low dot Damage. Minor Defile Debuff for -8% health recovery and healing received.
• Shock = Concussed = Direct Low Damage for 1 tick. 4s Debuff = Minor Vulnerability for +5% damage taken.
• Frost = Chilled = Direct Low Damage for 1 tick. 4s Debuff = Minor Maim for -5% damage done.
• Magic = Overcharged = Direct Low Damage for 1 tick. 4s Debuff = Minor Magickasteal for 168 magicka return every 1s when taking damage (can not stack).
• Physical = Sundered = Direct Low Damage for 1 tick. 4s Debuff = Minor Breach for -3k Armor.

At the end of the day, it depends on your build, but enchants have come out farther ahead for most builds now compared to before. You're using a weapon that gives you guaranteed burning, so you most likely aren't using the charged trait. Which means your poison enchant will only proc poisoned at a 52% chance every 4s. The direct damage is nice, but with RNG like that on a weaker status effect like poisoned, it's not necessarily the best option for you. Burning just does so much more, so the more reliable damage you get from a poison may out parse the enchantment.

For most builds, players with Dual Wield are able to do Nirn + Charged or Precise + Charged which gives them an 80% chance to proc the 2 enchants they have slotted every 4s. Since they don't have a way to get guaranteed status effects like you, proccing burning and poisoned + the direct damage from the enchants every 4s is very advantagous and will outpace poisons.

Question @MashmalloMan : can damage ticks from alchemical poisons also proc the poison status effect?

If so Would it be worth testing with a charged staff vs my current precise?

Guess i should, add would it be better then too run poison enchant and a charged staff?

Or infused?

See, i thought the poison enchant would be better too, but i had a yolo moment and through the poisons up there. When i did that i got a SIGNIFICANT increase to dps.

I have been testing both ways since and the deadly poisons continue to out perform the poison enchant.

My best guess for why, because my poisons were consistently proccing with in the first two ticks of a reach cast resulted in them lining up with every single incap. And im wondering if they simply benefited from the 20% increased damage more than enchants did.

I do definitely feel like it has something to do with the interplay between reach, soul harvest and the poisons combined though, maybe even the masters buff. Without the poisons i consistently lose about 4k to 5k.

Ive confirmed they only work better on this settup. Ive tested poisons in the past just to see what the difference was. and on other settups i got the expected results.