Unkillable dks?

OWLTHEMAD · February 2022

To start, this is NOT a nerf dk thread.

Playing bgs with my group

I play a magblade. Kinda brawly, not hyper dependant on cloak. But built for damage and sustain.

Kept running into groups of dks.

Already know they are basically a hard counter to my playstyle so expecting trouble.

But not this.

When fighting at least one of them nothing i threw at them hit for more than 845. I could barely hurt them at all. They werent blocking, they were attacking and weaving through it and moving at full speed.

Theyre damage was middling and alone werent much of an issue but i couldnt hurt them no matter what i was doing.

So my question? What in the hell were they running/doing and how can i kill them?

For emphasis, even an incap buffed bow proc only hit them for 845

Vevvev · February 2022

Guessing you're a Nightblade, and if that's the case... You're going to have problems. Best way to counter my class I've learned is to stun us with unblockable stuns right before your burst lands. As a Nightblade you'll need to use your fear ability, Mass Hysteria, to force a player to drop block otherwise they'll keep block casting heals.

Easier said then done, I know. To better understand how to beat us you have to learn how we're staying alive and that comes down to several factors but the biggest 3 being sustain, mitigation, and healing.

Sustain for a DK mostly comes from CP and our Combustion and Battle Roar passives. When we're on the offensive our sustain is better, but when we're pressured into the defensive our sustain is worse. This is why for defense mitigation is important for a DK.

As for mitigation DKs have an innate passive that provides additional armor, another passive that improves the amount of damage we block, and our Scaled Armor ability is so vital it's going to be up pretty much 100% of the time. All our damage shields scale off our max health to, and we have the Magma Armor/Corrosive Shell ultimate which reduces all incoming damage sources to only a small fraction of our health pool.

As for healing we have a passive that while a Draconic ability is active we heal for more. It is quite significant, and we also have Shattering Rocks, Flame Lash, Cinder Storm, Cauterize, Coagulating Blood, Burning Embers, Inhale, and Battle Roar to provide healing. Yes, we active an ultimate and we get healed for how much ultimate we consumed thanks to our passive. You probably won't be seeing all the heals being used at once, but a combination of around 3-5. Coagulating Blood is probably the most significant heal because it's our burst heal that scales up to 33% more healing based upon our missing health. Means at 50% HP our burst heal will have a slightly higher than a 15% boost, and since it's a Draconic ability if it's the only thing active consecutive uses will benefit from our passive increase to healing recieved.

So how to counter us... It depends. If a DK is using Molten Whip then they're not benefitting from the healing on Flame Lash, so odds are they might be using Shattering Rocks. Burning Embers, Shattering Rocks, and Flame Lash are all offensive melee based healing abilities which blend into DK's strength... Brawling.
Don't get into a melee with a DK if you can't handle it because it benefits them the greatest with extra healing, damage, and able to use their CC.
If the DK is going with a super tanky build with no damage, which is what it sounds like, you need a lot of friends. DKs built that way are probably running 40k+ resistances so unless you have over 20k penetration you'll be smacking into a brick wall at max resistances and more health than you can possibly chip away at with that kind of mitigation.

As for when a DK activates their Magma Armor ultimate the ultimate has one little flaw with it. It limits all incoming damage sources to a small % of their max health, but each individual damage over time ability, enchantment, light attack, and ability cast all count as separate instances of damage. Sure it might mitigate the pretty heavy blows, but if you overwhelm them with a death by a thousand cuts the ultimate will not be as effective. So save your own burst for when it ends to get maximum effect on it and not waste it.

End of the day it comes down to practice though. People who play the class for years are going to be incredibly tough nuts to crack, it is the original tank class after all, and Nightblade isn't in a great spot at the moment. Next patch DK's Burning Embers will heal them while it's active instead of bottling up a burst heal like it does now. Means it'll be more reliable requiring a bit more pressure in order to a secure a kill against them. Best advice I can give is to try and purge it if you can or just not get hit with it. Dodge rolling and distance can stop Burning Embers from getting placed on you.

gariondavey · February 2022

Vevvev wrote: »

Guessing you're a Nightblade, and if that's the case... You're going to have problems. Best way to counter my class I've learned is to stun us with unblockable stuns right before your burst lands. As a Nightblade you'll need to use your fear ability, Mass Hysteria, to force a player to drop block otherwise they'll keep block casting heals.

Easier said then done, I know. To better understand how to beat us you have to learn how we're staying alive and that comes down to several factors but the biggest 3 being sustain, mitigation, and healing.

Sustain for a DK mostly comes from CP and our Combustion and Battle Roar passives. When we're on the offensive our sustain is better, but when we're pressured into the defensive our sustain is worse. This is why for defense mitigation is important for a DK.

As for mitigation DKs have an innate passive that provides additional armor, another passive that improves the amount of damage we block, and our Scaled Armor ability is so vital it's going to be up pretty much 100% of the time. All our damage shields scale off our max health to, and we have the Magma Armor/Corrosive Shell ultimate which reduces all incoming damage sources to only a small fraction of our health pool.

As for healing we have a passive that while a Draconic ability is active we heal for more. It is quite significant, and we also have Shattering Rocks, Flame Lash, Cinder Storm, Cauterize, Coagulating Blood, Burning Embers, Inhale, and Battle Roar to provide healing. Yes, we active an ultimate and we get healed for how much ultimate we consumed thanks to our passive. You probably won't be seeing all the heals being used at once, but a combination of around 3-5. Coagulating Blood is probably the most significant heal because it's our burst heal that scales up to 33% more healing based upon our missing health. Means at 50% HP our burst heal will have a slightly higher than a 15% boost, and since it's a Draconic ability if it's the only thing active consecutive uses will benefit from our passive increase to healing recieved.

So how to counter us... It depends. If a DK is using Molten Whip then they're not benefitting from the healing on Flame Lash, so odds are they might be using Shattering Rocks. Burning Embers, Shattering Rocks, and Flame Lash are all offensive melee based healing abilities which blend into DK's strength... Brawling.
Don't get into a melee with a DK if you can't handle it because it benefits them the greatest with extra healing, damage, and able to use their CC.
If the DK is going with a super tanky build with no damage, which is what it sounds like, you need a lot of friends. DKs built that way are probably running 40k+ resistances so unless you have over 20k penetration you'll be smacking into a brick wall at max resistances and more health than you can possibly chip away at with that kind of mitigation.

As for when a DK activates their Magma Armor ultimate the ultimate has one little flaw with it. It limits all incoming damage sources to a small % of their max health, but each individual damage over time ability, enchantment, light attack, and ability cast all count as separate instances of damage. Sure it might mitigate the pretty heavy blows, but if you overwhelm them with a death by a thousand cuts the ultimate will not be as effective. So save your own burst for when it ends to get maximum effect on it and not waste it.

End of the day it comes down to practice though. People who play the class for years are going to be incredibly tough nuts to crack, it is the original tank class after all, and Nightblade isn't in a great spot at the moment. Next patch DK's Burning Embers will heal them while it's active instead of bottling up a burst heal like it does now. Means it'll be more reliable requiring a bit more pressure in order to a secure a kill against them. Best advice I can give is to try and purge it if you can or just not get hit with it. Dodge rolling and distance can stop Burning Embers from getting placed on you.

They said that the dk wasn't blocking. They also said they were a magblade

OWLTHEMAD · February 2022

All super good advice, but incap stun followed by bow proc only landed for 845.

Im trying to figure where the mirigation on that came from. Running sword and board but didnt see ulti going.

Im assuming its some kind of defensive combo, and was hoping to adapt it for a nightblade.

These guys were skilled and im not claiming any kind of unfairness, but there was some absurd damage mitigation and it wasnt block

NerfSeige · February 2022

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

All super good advice, but incap stun followed by bow proc only landed for 845.

That's corrosive man, if you can't properly see the animation then you'll know if the ult is active when the damage numbers are almost all the same.

MEBengalsFan2001 · February 2022

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OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

All super good advice, but incap stun followed by bow proc only landed for 845.

Im trying to figure where the mirigation on that came from. Running sword and board but didnt see ulti going.

Im assuming its some kind of defensive combo, and was hoping to adapt it for a nightblade.

These guys were skilled and im not claiming any kind of unfairness, but there was some absurd damage mitigation and it wasnt block

Probably a set like buffer of the swift and Ironblood in all heavy gear with reinforced. He probably also had a shield on as well.

Even if you did get a DK to low health all they have to do is. hit Coagulating Blood for a big heal.

They also can easily root you and stun in place basically making any magika based character burn through stamina which than makes them easy targets for the kill.

OWLTHEMAD · February 2022

Never mind just saw the bit about magma armor.

Skimming because im at work. My apologies.

Guys must have been keeping really high ult up time.

Thats where i get screwed then, because nightblades are all about burst combos.

I can outsustain them but cant do much unless i catch em and KEEP them alone.

Dks are swarming bgs right now so maybe ill try an aoe dot settup and convince my crew to do the same.

Magma armor, huh.

Vevvev · February 2022

It's a pretty cheap ultimate all things considered, and Magma Shell compared to Corrosive Armor can have it's duration buffed by Elf Bane.

I'm tempted to use it all the time, but since I run stage 3-4 vampire I typically pick Swarming Scion over it. Magma Armor is only 200 ultimate and some ultimate generation builds can make fine use of it.
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/magma-armor

I found DoT builds using Dragurkin can really burn through the ultimate though with the "death by a thousand cuts" tactic.

OWLTHEMAD · February 2022

Also, i was only dying to well played burst (never thought of timed detonation and leap together wholly cow)

Vevvev · February 2022

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Also, i was only dying to well played burst (never thought of timed detonation and leap together wholly cow)

There's also the Flames of Oblivion, 3 stacks of Seething Fury Molten Whip, and Leap combo. That'll knock your socks off if you don't see it being builded up on their end.

3 stacks of Seething Fury looks like this.

OWLTHEMAD · February 2022

Oll have to check that out a bit later

Iriidius · February 2022

corrosive armor caps every damage at 3% of your maximum health, a dk with 28166 hp get hit by 845 damage. Some stam dk use essensse thief which has similar animation to hide corrosive.

WabanakiWarrior · March 2022

Yep, what others said about Corrosive. DK meta I keep seeing is stacking ult gen. Just back to back to back corrosives or leap. DK scary out there right now.