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What is the reasoning behind mythic lead drop chances?
fred4
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Some of them drop relatively quickly, for example the leads you get from world bosses. Others, notably the Shadowfen Harpooner's Wading Kilt watery plants lead, take an eternity to acquire (for most of us). The drop chance appears (or appeared) to be very low. There are some leads I never got around to, such as the Ehlnofey Markarth safebox lead. I am also doing the Fargrave daily quests for a Markyn lead, so far to no avail. What's worse about these leads is that safeboxes and the Fargrave quests also drop other leads. You're not even guaranteed the correct lead, when one finally drops.
What do you think is the reasoning for making these leads have such a low drop chance? Might it be that ZOS consider non-combat activities trivial and, therefore, the drop chance is lower?
I'm playing the game for the combat. For me personally, if the combat-related leads had a lower drop chance, that would make sense, because combat is what I enjoy. Is this game "play as you want" or not? Who likes loading screens between Fargrave and the Deadlands and relogging between multiple characters to some day get the lead for an item that is BIS in PvP of all places?
Variety is fine, but whoever thought "oh, this is easy, we'll make the drop chance lower" has no concept of what is fun and what is a chore. Let's say you argue this is fair to roleplayers in the grand scheme of things. People who enjoy stealing from safeboxes, let's say. Fair enough, but make the drop chance equal. That would be fair. In reality world bosses aren't a problem for anyone. Have you ever tried soloing world bosses? You rarely can, at least on PC EU. There is almost always someone there to help you.
Well, as per usual, this ended up being a plea to ZOS / venting my frustration. Am I missing something? Do you disagree? I understand ESO is less grindy than many other MMOs already. For me, though, that's not a problem. The strength of the game is the buildcraft. With so many item sets and so much lateral development options, that's what keeps you going. It's about exploring different playstyles and build options. It's about "play as you want" alright. That's what the sticker book and the curated item drops are about too. ZOS have already recognised the game is so big, at this point, that they could afford that.
Edited by fred4 on March 4, 2022 11:55PM What do you think is the reasoning for making these leads have such a low drop chance? Might it be that ZOS consider non-combat activities trivial and, therefore, the drop chance is lower?
I'm playing the game for the combat. For me personally, if the combat-related leads had a lower drop chance, that would make sense, because combat is what I enjoy. Is this game "play as you want" or not? Who likes loading screens between Fargrave and the Deadlands and relogging between multiple characters to some day get the lead for an item that is BIS in PvP of all places?
Variety is fine, but whoever thought "oh, this is easy, we'll make the drop chance lower" has no concept of what is fun and what is a chore. Let's say you argue this is fair to roleplayers in the grand scheme of things. People who enjoy stealing from safeboxes, let's say. Fair enough, but make the drop chance equal. That would be fair. In reality world bosses aren't a problem for anyone. Have you ever tried soloing world bosses? You rarely can, at least on PC EU. There is almost always someone there to help you.
Well, as per usual, this ended up being a plea to ZOS / venting my frustration. Am I missing something? Do you disagree? I understand ESO is less grindy than many other MMOs already. For me, though, that's not a problem. The strength of the game is the buildcraft. With so many item sets and so much lateral development options, that's what keeps you going. It's about exploring different playstyles and build options. It's about "play as you want" alright. That's what the sticker book and the curated item drops are about too. ZOS have already recognised the game is so big, at this point, that they could afford that.
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fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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I know that's a joke, but it's probably exactly that. Thoughtless. RNGsus in the development process. I bet daily quests have set drop chance. Safeboxes have a set drop chance, regardless of what the drop is. I'm guessing, of course.Drammanoth wrote: »Reasoning? No reasoning - just RNGsus
There's a big difference between, say, a nice house item and a mythic lead. A player into housing is, on average, probably more likely to enjoy that kind of content. The house item may also be tradeable. The economy is the great enabler for "play as you want". Generally ESO has that right. There are unbound items from AP, and more notably Tel Var, that PvPers can provide. The problem with mythic leads is that they are bound, forcing people to do content they abhor, but need to do for PvP. "Need" is probably not too strong a word, if you want to be meta. If these mythic leads could be traded, that would solve the problem. It would make for a really interesting item with, I bet, long term stable value, that role-players could farm and provide to the market.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Sure, but it's crushing. I have to say, I like the sticker book. It's much better to know that you will make guaranteed progress by the end of a dungeon than to farm a random drop with a low drop chance. If leads were tradeable, I bet they would not be cheap. They could even be in the millions for some of them. All the same, I might pay. I'd love to have the option to trade.It's just another mechanic to keep you grinding really.0 -
santhoranb16_ESO✭✭✭Its time gateing, that you have to spend more time on the game, aka you grind for nothing, thats the reason for lower dropchances on some leads. Usual practice in MMOs and nothing "bad" , its just to stretch the content.1
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francesinhalover✭✭✭✭✭
✭A guy in one of my guild keeps counted the time he spent getting the harponers lead from water nods.
It has been 54h no lead yet.I am @fluffypallascat pc eu if someone wants to play together
Shadow strike is the best cp passive ever!0 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's just another mechanic to keep you grinding really.
Personally, I think leads related to mythic items should be rare, since the items themselves are supposed to be rare in the lore sense. It wouldn't make sense for them to be easy to find, otherwise the items wouldn't be much different than any other top-of-the-line gear that you could buy from any gear merchant's corner shop.
Edit: But yes, in terms of the game rather than the lore, it's a grind designed to keep you playing day after day.Edited by SeaGtGruff on March 5, 2022 2:38AMI've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!0 -
freespirit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I find they are not rare UNTIL you are actively looking for one!!
I'm not looking for it, I'm not looking for it, I'm totally doing something else, don't let RNG get a whiff of a hint you want a particular lead!!
When people say to me........
"You're going to regret that in the morning"
I sleep until midday cos I'm a problem solver!1 -
tomfant✭✭✭✭santhoranb16_ESO wrote: »Usual practice in MMOs and nothing "bad" , its just to stretch the content.
It's a pretty cheap way, though.
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Larcomar✭✭✭✭✭It's good business. I mean, they want people to play. So each DLC they introduce something that's totally broken so it becomes a "must have." Ofc they want you to *keep* playing. So they make it really hard to get. Not every bit - they want you to think you're going to get it. Just one or two's enough, so you're going to keep going. Because you've gotten the other 4 parts, so it would be crazy not to finish it off, right? And then, by the time you finally get it, there'll be a new DLC out. At that point, they'll nerf that "must have" item into the ground, introduce the next totally broken "must have" item, and you'll have to go grind that... I'm not sure it makes for happy customers but it sure makes for a lot of them, and they sure log in a lot. Look at how many people were camped out in shadowfen trying to get that drop.
One of things you might try in future is not buying the new content straight way in future. It's only anecdotal but Ive noticed a few times that when I didn't have the next chapter/ddlc whatever, boy did I suddenly get a lot of the mythic drops from it. That ofc require me to buy it to dig up.... Take the tide beads for instance. I really didn't understand what all those guys in shadowfen were doing wrong. I got it completely randomly when I grabbed some water flower on the way to a guild vendor. Ofc, they're very clear that I've got to buy the pack to get it. And that I really have to buy it *now*. Because otherwise that lead is going to expire... There's a little timer by it, steadily counting down....0 -
Peppo_Lives✭✭✭imho most of deadlands leads have a lower drop chance than other leads.....i'm doing deadlands dailies almost every day since they were introduced and i found only one lead for markyn ring and one for belharza band (as a codex collector, i have to find all leads 3 times - motif and collectibles excluded)
PC-EU - Eidetic Memory / Codex / Recipes Collector - 60K+ Achievement Points1 -
Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭Farming gear become easy with each update and i think leads should be the same. It can be like this. Lets say a world boss drops lead and each time you do not get that lead upon looting, the lead's drop chance should increase. So eventually you will get it after certain time. It is not fun to lap around a public dungeon for five hours to get a lead.0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Hahahahaha! RNG must very well know that I normally never do safeboxes, nor dailies other than writs.freespirit wrote: »I find they are not rare UNTIL you are actively looking for one!!
I'm not looking for it, I'm not looking for it, I'm totally doing something else, don't let RNG get a whiff of a hint you want a particular lead!!0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In general, anything "rare", "legendary", or otherwise super-special, will have a low drop rate. And with something that you need to get multiple parts? They only need to put the low drop rate on one piece of it, in order for the entire thing to turn "rare".
(another factor might be how many places the item drops. Something that drops from lots of places - like, say, dozens of harvesting points in a zone - frequently gets a lower drop rate than something that only drops from the final boss in a dungeon.)
...thinking back to the people talking about how many months/years it took to get their rare drop from once-a-week raids in WoW...
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some of them drop relatively quickly, for example the leads you get from world bosses. Others, notably the Shadowfen Harpooner's Wading Kilt watery plants lead, take an eternity to acquire (for most of us). The drop chance appears (or appeared) to be very low. There are some leads I never got around to, such as the Ehlnofey Markarth safebox lead. I am also doing the Fargrave daily quests for a Markyn lead, so far to no avail. What's worse about these leads is that safeboxes and the Fargrave quests also drop other leads. You're not even guaranteed the correct lead, when one finally drops.
What do you think is the reasoning for making these leads have such a low drop chance? Might it be that ZOS consider non-combat activities trivial and, therefore, the drop chance is lower?
I think the drop rate is the same for all parts and you simply are at different ends of the distribution curve for the ones you find "easy" versus the ones you find "hard".
On my EU character, I got the Wading Kilt lead in Shadowfen by gathering alchemy nodes while I was doing the Public Dungeon quest, and that was the first time I went to that zone. I'm sure that for every lead that someone finds hard, there are going to be stories similar to mine because RNG doesn't care about your feelings.
The Moot Councillor0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Just because you're versed in statistics and that sounds plausible, doesn't mean it's true. You got incredibly lucky. The watery plants Kilt lead is known to have a low drop rate. It took many hours for me and for many of my friends. World bosses can be reticent, but after 10 or 20 tries you have the lead in the vast majority of cases.Some of them drop relatively quickly, for example the leads you get from world bosses. Others, notably the Shadowfen Harpooner's Wading Kilt watery plants lead, take an eternity to acquire (for most of us). The drop chance appears (or appeared) to be very low. There are some leads I never got around to, such as the Ehlnofey Markarth safebox lead. I am also doing the Fargrave daily quests for a Markyn lead, so far to no avail. What's worse about these leads is that safeboxes and the Fargrave quests also drop other leads. You're not even guaranteed the correct lead, when one finally drops.
What do you think is the reasoning for making these leads have such a low drop chance? Might it be that ZOS consider non-combat activities trivial and, therefore, the drop chance is lower?
I think the drop rate is the same for all parts and you simply are at different ends of the distribution curve for the ones you find "easy" versus the ones you find "hard".
On my EU character, I got the Wading Kilt lead in Shadowfen by gathering alchemy nodes while I was doing the Public Dungeon quest, and that was the first time I went to that zone. I'm sure that for every lead that someone finds hard, there are going to be stories similar to mine because RNG doesn't care about your feelings.
Aside from that, I'm talking about time invested and how boring the content is. Relogging and porting between zones for the Fargrave dailies adds to the pain. As does finding safeboxes. There are said to be 18 such boxes in Markarth, but there is no comprehensive list, map, YouTube video or addon I could find that shows them all. One of the websites has a list for the base game, but not for Markarth. I can break into houses all day, but if the box is down, because someone else recently looted it, I don't even know whether I'm looking in the right place. It is very time-consuming. I have no interest in that gameplay and would rather leave it to professional thieves who have accumulated knowledge on safebox locations.
Like I said, this goes towards "play as you want". Let the leads be rare, but stick them in a container and make them tradeable. Let them be worth millions or whatever the market decides, but give me the option to pay for them with gold.Edited by fred4 on March 5, 2022 4:22PM0 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Even combat based leads have a low drop rate if it's from normal mobs. Witness the pale order lead from bad man's hollows.0 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some of them drop relatively quickly, for example the leads you get from world bosses. Others, notably the Shadowfen Harpooner's Wading Kilt watery plants lead, take an eternity to acquire (for most of us). The drop chance appears (or appeared) to be very low. There are some leads I never got around to, such as the Ehlnofey Markarth safebox lead. I am also doing the Fargrave daily quests for a Markyn lead, so far to no avail. What's worse about these leads is that safeboxes and the Fargrave quests also drop other leads. You're not even guaranteed the correct lead, when one finally drops.
What do you think is the reasoning for making these leads have such a low drop chance? Might it be that ZOS consider non-combat activities trivial and, therefore, the drop chance is lower?
I think the drop rate is the same for all parts and you simply are at different ends of the distribution curve for the ones you find "easy" versus the ones you find "hard".
On my EU character, I got the Wading Kilt lead in Shadowfen by gathering alchemy nodes while I was doing the Public Dungeon quest, and that was the first time I went to that zone. I'm sure that for every lead that someone finds hard, there are going to be stories similar to mine because RNG doesn't care about your feelings.
Im not sure that they all have the same drop rate. One of the pieces comes from Ruins of Mazzatun. It drop from the final boss. So imagine if a person had to run RoM as many times as they picked a water plant node in Shadowfen.
So it does feel a little weighted in this respect. That's not entirely a bad thing. It was possible, not probable, that a person could walk into Shadowfen, pick a flower and get the lead in less than 5 minutes. Thats not possible in Ruins simply because you needed to get through the entire dungeon just to have a shot at it. Even on normal it would take longer. You could still get it on the first try, but each attempt required more time than picking flowers.
It took me over a dozen runs of vDSA, I forget how many exactly but it was well over a dozen, to get the final piece of Death Dealer Fete. It took us 45-60 minutes on average. I had actually just resigned to not worrying about it anymore. Most of my friends had gotten it already, some had gotten it twice and couldn't trade with me if they wanted to.
Imagine how bad that would be if the odds of that drop were exactly the same as Shadowfen prior to them increasing the drop rate? So it does make sense that they weight them a little.
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
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Just because you're versed in statistics and that sounds plausible, doesn't mean it's true. You got incredibly lucky. The watery plants Kilt lead is known to have a low drop rate. It took many hours for me and for many of my friends. World bosses can be reticent, but after 10 or 20 tries you have the lead in the vast majority of cases.
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Yeah, I understand that. But without having access to server-wide stats, it's impossible to determine what the actual drop rate is. On the forums, you hear mostly from the people who spent long hours farming the lead, not from the people that got it while they were doing something else.
I'm not interested in mythic items other than the ring of the wild hunt (outside of getting them for the sticker book), but I helped guildies farming Elden Hollow and it took one of them 38 runs before he got the lead.
Like I said, this goes towards "play as you want". Let the leads be rare, but stick them in a container and make them tradeable. Let them be worth millions or whatever the market decides, but give me the option to pay for them with gold.
This would, unfortunately, require a significant lowering of the drop rates in order to not trivialize the Mythic items to oblivion.
The Moot Councillor0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@AlnilamE, the solution for the safeboxes turned out to be playing at 5am for me. There were simply more of them available. I'd say you were right. The drop chances on those seemed pretty standard. My problem was resenting gameplay I didn't want to do. The Fargrave quests, on the other hand, are just plain time-consuming on account of the travel time, relogging to alts every two quests, and waiting for a single specific boss. You can't just rotate from boss to boss within the same zone, as you can for some other leads.Edited by fred4 on March 8, 2022 6:35AM0 -
fizl101✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭francesinhalover wrote: »A guy in one of my guild keeps counted the time he spent getting the harponers lead from water nods.
It has been 54h no lead yet.
I hope he knows it was changed a while back to any alchemy node not just water plants and waterSoupy twist2 -
Grizzbeorn✭✭✭✭✭
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I bet daily quests have set drop chance. Safeboxes have a set drop chance, regardless of what the drop is. I'm guessing, of course.Drammanoth wrote: »Reasoning? No reasoning - just RNGsus
It's all ruled by RNGsus. There are no set drop chances.
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Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Drammanoth wrote: »Reasoning? No reasoning - just RNGsus
leads are definitely this
for me personally i got the kilt lead from my first node in shadowfen, and i wasnt even there to farm it (it was on the way to a random daily quest)
in fact a majority of the leads (at least the first drop) usually happen relatively quickly for me
the only leads at all that have given me any difficulty in being dropped are those ridiculous motif leads from treasure map chestsplays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (fully filled out with current game), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
in progress: acquiring mundus stones (currently only have the thief)
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
DigiAngel✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a non-ESO+ member who just got the Waders I can tell you that this ONE ITEM's leads spanned no less then 4 DLC's. Food for thought.0 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As a non-ESO+ member who just got the Waders I can tell you that this ONE ITEM's leads spanned no less then 4 DLC's. Food for thought.
I'm not sure how you're counting that. Ruins and Murkmire are dlcs. Blackwood is the chapter, and the other 2 leads are in base game zones. All leads are dug up in Blackwood, and this lead is basically a chapter feature, so it's really 2 additional dlcs.0 -
Necrotech_Master✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kringled_1 wrote: »As a non-ESO+ member who just got the Waders I can tell you that this ONE ITEM's leads spanned no less then 4 DLC's. Food for thought.
I'm not sure how you're counting that. Ruins and Murkmire are dlcs. Blackwood is the chapter, and the other 2 leads are in base game zones. All leads are dug up in Blackwood, and this lead is basically a chapter feature, so it's really 2 additional dlcs.
i think they are also including that you need greymoor for the antiquity system itself- greymoor for antiquity system
- shadow of the hist (ruins of mazzatun dungeon) for lead
- murkmire for lead
- blackwood for dig sites
plays PC/NA
handle @Necrotech_Master
active player since april 2014
i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (fully filled out with current game), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them
in progress: acquiring mundus stones (currently only have the thief)
feel free to stop by and use the facilities0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are we looking for an answer other than to keep people grinding?
Mythic leads are a 5 part grind in disguise, and it's not much of a disguise.
My worst grind has been the DSA grind (33 runs), probably followed by the Shadowfend grind (16 hours). Most the rest I got relatively quickly. Oh the Artaeum fishing grind was also pretty lousy, but I think it only took me 2-3 hours, I just hate competitive fishing, LOL. Most of the WB boss grinds didnt take me more than a few pulls, and I dont think a normal dungeon run ever took more than 3.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on March 9, 2022 5:58PM0