jaws343 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

axi wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It’s dodgeable, tho that may not always be the case if the lag is too bad. Unblockable stuns are needed though, with a lot of permablocking tanks out there. Streak isn’t even as much of an issue as it was before either. It used to ignore walls and higher levels.

It's not dodgable and it has nothing to do with lag. It is simply undodgable, unblockable stun by design. Basically every AoE stun is undodgable. AoE abilities are undodgable by design.

Streak specifically has been made to be dodgeable, thanks to a lot of complaints. It quite literally says here: https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/streak and in-game. I’ve had plenty of people dodge my streaks. Maybe your dodge roll didn’t go through or register, which happens a lot.

It cannot be dodged. It was not made specifically to be dodged. It doesn't even say that in the link provided

Thats wierd, I see folks dodging my streaks all the time, most of them actually.

Kwoung wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

axi wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

It’s dodgeable, tho that may not always be the case if the lag is too bad. Unblockable stuns are needed though, with a lot of permablocking tanks out there. Streak isn’t even as much of an issue as it was before either. It used to ignore walls and higher levels.

It's not dodgable and it has nothing to do with lag. It is simply undodgable, unblockable stun by design. Basically every AoE stun is undodgable. AoE abilities are undodgable by design.

Streak specifically has been made to be dodgeable, thanks to a lot of complaints. It quite literally says here: https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/streak and in-game. I’ve had plenty of people dodge my streaks. Maybe your dodge roll didn’t go through or register, which happens a lot.

It cannot be dodged. It was not made specifically to be dodged. It doesn't even say that in the link provided

Thats wierd, I see folks dodging my streaks all the time, most of them actually.

That would mean You were not having them in a line of stun when You were teleporting or that from server perspective they are in different position then Your client suggest.

Kwoung wrote: »

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

In my honest opinion it's the "strongest" utility ability in the game.
It combines 3 utility abilities in one!
Stun, Charge and "escape"(defensive) ability.

Maybe it needs to be this way because pets take up such a big part of the ability bar, who knows how the Devs think.

Far from the strongest ability, unlike the many abilities and sets that can't be, it is amazingly easy to negate. Not to mention, most sorcs would rather not "gap close", being as they can be quite squishy and die to melee attacks rather quickly and easily.

Sorc do gap close with bolt escape. For example when enemy is running away or if You just want to engage in fight quicker this is Your "go to" ability to close the gap. Gap closing doesn't mean by definition fighting in meele.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

In my honest opinion it's the "strongest" utility ability in the game.
It combines 3 utility abilities in one!
Stun, Charge and "escape"(defensive) ability.

Maybe it needs to be this way because pets take up such a big part of the ability bar, who knows how the Devs think.

Far from the strongest ability, unlike the many abilities and sets that can't be, it is amazingly easy to negate. Not to mention, most sorcs would rather not "gap close", being as they can be quite squishy and die to melee attacks rather quickly and easily.

Sorc do gap close with bolt escape. For example when enemy is running away or if You just want to engage in fight quicker this is Your "go to" ability to close the gap. Gap closing doesn't mean by definition fighting in meele.

But if you arent in melee, the stun is irrelevant. That was his point. To use a streak as a stun on a mag sorc, the tradeoff is that put yourself in melee range to do it, typically, with your back to your target. Almost every other spec in this game will beat a mag sorc in close up melee content assuming players of similar ability. Streak also has a stack cost, so while stam can use, they cant use a lot. A mag sorc that builds to streak more than 5-6 times cant kill a fly. Dont be a fly.

And pro tip, if a mag sorc streaks you down to chase you, turn and fight, he is almost certainly out of magic, and likely their shields are down. Mag Sorcs are about the easiest AP in cyro at the moment. The excel mostly at nuking pugs that have been caught unaware.

Fighting a mag sorc 101. They try to kill you with a burst combo. That combo usually consists of some combination of Curse, Mages Wrath, and Frags that they are trying to have go off while you are stunned. Wrath and frags are both dodgable. So when you get cursed, roll dodge, and prepare for a streak. If the streak gets you, just break free. And go on offense. Frags and execute both just missed. Streak never killed anyone by itself.

Meele is usually reffered to as under 7-10 meters, sorcs stun on streak is like 15-18 so technically yes the it is relevant also outside of meele fights and nobody stops You from using it 2 times if You still want to create distance after the stun. Stamsorc at the moment is possibly more effective at incorporating streak into his mobility them magsorc thanks to added option to dodge roll and sprint more and faster. You are making wierd assumtpions that I have some issues with sorcs in general. I don't. That doesn't change a fact streak on it's own is overloaded ability due to the stun it have.

Thanks for tip nobody asked for. Also Cyro is not the only type of pvp and chases will not always be made by 1 sorc. You are kinda cherrypicking arguments to fit Your agenda.

Again, explanation nobody asked for. I think You misunderstood topic of this thread. I know how sorc works. This is excatly why I think stun on streak in current form makes it overloaded and I explained why. There is not a single ability that kills people by itself. Seriously Your argumentation completly misses the point.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

In my honest opinion it's the "strongest" utility ability in the game.
It combines 3 utility abilities in one!
Stun, Charge and "escape"(defensive) ability.

Maybe it needs to be this way because pets take up such a big part of the ability bar, who knows how the Devs think.

Far from the strongest ability, unlike the many abilities and sets that can't be, it is amazingly easy to negate. Not to mention, most sorcs would rather not "gap close", being as they can be quite squishy and die to melee attacks rather quickly and easily.

Sorc do gap close with bolt escape. For example when enemy is running away or if You just want to engage in fight quicker this is Your "go to" ability to close the gap. Gap closing doesn't mean by definition fighting in meele.

But if you arent in melee, the stun is irrelevant. That was his point. To use a streak as a stun on a mag sorc, the tradeoff is that put yourself in melee range to do it, typically, with your back to your target. Almost every other spec in this game will beat a mag sorc in close up melee content assuming players of similar ability. Streak also has a stack cost, so while stam can use, they cant use a lot. A mag sorc that builds to streak more than 5-6 times cant kill a fly. Dont be a fly.

And pro tip, if a mag sorc streaks you down to chase you, turn and fight, he is almost certainly out of magic, and likely their shields are down. Mag Sorcs are about the easiest AP in cyro at the moment. The excel mostly at nuking pugs that have been caught unaware.

Fighting a mag sorc 101. They try to kill you with a burst combo. That combo usually consists of some combination of Curse, Mages Wrath, and Frags that they are trying to have go off while you are stunned. Wrath and frags are both dodgable. So when you get cursed, roll dodge, and prepare for a streak. If the streak gets you, just break free. And go on offense. Frags and execute both just missed. Streak never killed anyone by itself.

Meele is usually reffered to as under 7-10 meters, sorcs stun on streak is like 15-18 so technically yes the it is relevant also outside of meele fights and nobody stops You from using it 2 times if You still want to create distance after the stun. Stamsorc at the moment is possibly more effective at incorporating streak into his mobility them magsorc thanks to added option to dodge roll and sprint more and faster. You are making wierd assumtpions that I have some issues with sorcs in general. I don't. That doesn't change a fact streak on it's own is overloaded ability due to the stun it have.

Thanks for tip nobody asked for. Also Cyro is not the only type of pvp and chases will not always be made by 1 sorc. You are kinda cherrypicking arguments to fit Your agenda.

Again, explanation nobody asked for. I think You misunderstood topic of this thread. I know how sorc works. This is excatly why I think stun on streak in current form makes it overloaded and I explained why. There is not a single ability that kills people by itself. Seriously Your argumentation completly misses the point.

I thought the tips might be useful. [snip] While they are certainly one of the easier classes to play, they are also arguably the easiest class to fight and if streak is getting you killed, or causing enough rage for you to come to the forums, some understanding of mechanics might go a long way here.

If a sorc uses a streak to stun you, they are entering melee range if they want the stun to go off. You arent stunning someone 15-18 meters away with streak, that is not how the skill works. The stun is based on your starting location, and with streak, it will stun multiple enemies along your path. But either way, you get up close and personal to do it. You also likely have to flip your camera 180 to do anything to a stunned opponent, because practically speaking, you need to streak through an opponent if you want the stun to go off.

Streak is of course a jack of all trades type skill and comes with a serious downside of a stack cost:

-Its movement skill, but there are certainly better options if being on top of your opponent (gap closing) is the goal, with better range. The same thing that makes it a decent gap closer also makes it a decent escape tool, but its got nothing on cloak if trying to disengage a fight. A traditional gap closer is the best counter to a sorc trying to get away. Gap closers have longer range and no stack cost, so easy to spam and stay on top of a streaking sorc.

-Its a decent stun, but its go nothing on say fossilize that also immobolizes (forcing a break free and dodge roll) and will literally tell you when your opponent is CC immune because the skill will go grey.

I assume this skill does more because as a general rule, sorcs have the most cramped bars of any class in ESO. Remove the stun, and most sorcs would stop running arguably one of the more class defining skills that has been around since Beta. The movement alone would not merit a bar slot for any competitive player. They would have to make room for something like Rune Cage, which has pretty much been nerfed to uselessness.

For a standard mag sorc to kill a decent player, it takes a sorc combo to stunned opponent (usually, 2-3 of them). That means, just to secure a kill, you are likely using all 5 slots on one bar. You need you spam to proc frags, you need curse, you need an execute to trigger when you get them low health, and you need a stun. Front bar is gone and nevermind that it takes one dodge roll to make a sorc combo hit like a wet noodle, even if the stun does land. A combo that is perhaps the most telegraphed combo in all of ESO. Seriously, get cursed, tap roll dodge and you will stop dying to sorcs.

Sorcs to stay alive either need a pet heal and a shield, or they need to stack at least two shields and put a heal on top of it. That is 3 skills right there either way as a pet takes 2. That leaves 2 skills max to work with for any type of buff, debuff, DOT, sustain, what have you. I have played every spec in this game, none have tighter bars than a sorc, not even close.

Why do You assume this a nerf sorc thread? What is this wierd bias that if someone tellls that something in certain form is overpowered then it's suddenly recognised as nerf thread. Your whole long comments are based on assumptions and cherrypicked arguments but barely even adresses point of this discussion which is a fact that AoE unblockable undodgable stun should not be tied to a streak. You just jump out with some random "words of wisdom" which literally bring nothing into discussion.

Exiting meele is as easy as it was entering it. Also lets be honest if sorc decides to enter meele fot stun to go off it's not like he will take hard beating at that point. If he's solo he does that to finish up a combo so if enemy survives he will need a moment to break free and recover which gives a sorc time to exit meele range. If he's in a group then whatever he will just stun people and move back safely. As for rotating Your camera, like seriously, this is an argument now? Maybe we should also talk about the fact he needs to aim in the right direction as additional "drawback"? Like seriously get real.

That cost downside have nothing to do with the stun. it's there to prevent sorc from braindead spam like 10+ times in a row like they used to do in old days when drawback was only +50% from base ability cost. It's the most obvious thing that teleport like that needs to be kept in check no matter what other features are added on top of it.

One on one it's better tool at disengaging the cloak. Cloak requires way more additional features for succesfull disengane then streak like shade, kiting, dodging etc and even then sources of detection despite being pretty weak in general can still make a little mess. While yes You can counter streak with gap closers it's also fairly easy to counter gap closers with streak. basically this is the reason why stun at the initial teleport area is there which I have no issue with. Proper use of that stun wikll let You to teleport 1 additional time which puts You already at distance higher then gap closers range. My issue is just with the idea od 15-18x6m AoE stun I have no issue with the fact stun is present at starting point of teleport.

Seriously You think fossilize can come even close? First of all You compare large AoE stun that is a component of teleporting ability to a meele single target stun that. Fossilize looses right away. As for immobilize on fossilize I think You overestimate that immobilize a bit. Lets be honest most of the people after breaking free from undodgable, unblockable stun will either dodge anyway or spend 2-3 seconds healing or do both. Very often petrify is also used on enemies that are mid dodge roll so they already have immobilize immunity. Talons are way better source of immobilizing then fossilize. This is why lately many DKs runs with shattering rocks over fossilize because like I said that immobilize does not change much. As for telling when opponent can be CCed there is a thing called CC immunity animation. Just look for that if You want to know wheter You can stun enemy or not. And when it comes to petrify it really likes to bug out most of the time when enemy uses some source of CC immunity like mist or potion making petrify in both morphs unusable. Seriously really bad choice for comparison.

This skill does more because teleporting is core of the ability so adding anything of top of that already makes this ability lot of features. Seriously You think that without stun sorcs wouldn't run it? Tell to to everyone who was using the other morph back in the day. It had no stun like streak have yet sorcs were using it left and right simple because ball was lasting longer and absorbing more stuff plus mobility itself is a king in this game anyway. Sorcs were just using different ways to stun people like destructive reach, runge cage, frag etc. If You think taking away stun would cause sorcs to not use it You are seriously delusional. People would just slot a stun like they used to do. And once again as I said I have no issue with a stun at the beggining and end of teleport. Making it full AoE stun is just too much. As for rune cage ZoS's approach to redesign it imo was really poor.

The way how sorcs combo works really does not justify streak stun in its current form. For myself I can add that I agree that barspace on sorc is really tight and ZoS could do something about that. Issue with sorc is that some abilities are completly overloaded (like streak) and some are just as basic as it can get (curse). It's real shame ZoS decided to remove overload bar.


[edited quoted post]

Kwoung wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Why do You assume this a nerf sorc thread? What is this wierd bias that if someone tellls that something in certain form is overpowered then it's suddenly recognised as nerf thread.

IDK, because if it happened the class would literally disappear from PVP? What is your definition of nerf?

Personally, I don't use streak much and in many cases swap it out for something more group friendly. But I mainly play with friends, so not a big deal. When solo, it is always on my bar, as I am sure it is with most sorcs. I also don't use pets, but still only have 3 slots per bar after buff skills, and since my back bar is all about not dying, that leaves me a combo of 3 skills to try an kill another player with, which is generally mines, frags and wrath... mines I have found are actually way more effective than streak FYI. I guess that is a dirty little secret that hasn't got out yet, and how I usually keep a 50+/1 kill ratio in Cyro. Of course mines take a ton of mag, but I have worked that out as well and almost never cast frags anymore unless clearing guards off a resource, so I usually slot my synergy instead so others can blow stuff up with my help. I love watching someone hit my conduit on a well packed back flag.

There are a ton of ways to play any class, and quite honestly, all of them can be deadly. [snip]

[edited to remove baiting comment]

What is that assumption based on? History proves otherwise since there were times when people were not stunning everyone with streak and sorc was still more than playable. I never said "nerf streak to the ground and remove it from the game". I said I am fine with stun at the beggining of the teleport but not with full AoE stun since it's undodgable,unblockable multi target stun tied to a teleport ability making it completly unbalanced. If ZoS wants to add more control to this particular morph there are more balanced ways to do so.