Dark Convergence still a plague in PvP, and in PvE dungeons too

AJones43865 · December 2021

Dark Convergence still desperately needs a rework. The free proc pull is the most trolly mechanic to ever be implemented in a video game, and has to go. Dark Convergence is strictly a troll and ball group set now. It's doing the literal opposite of what the devs said they created it to do, and that should remind us all of the quality of work we should expect from these devs going forward.

Only the most toxic of trolls are using the set now. They move around close to the walls and under the third floor trying to troll people off their siege and ball groups can pull in large groups of people and ulti them down effortlessly with the set. The set is doing the opposite of what the devs said they designed it to do. And worse, it's encouraging toxicity among the player base. It's just a toxic troll set with a free toxic troll mechanic.

Dark Convergence still desperately needs a rework or to be removed from the game.

Oh too, if you are a PvE tank, Dark Convergence is incredibly disruptive in dungeon runs as well. The DPS jank the mobs around all over the place and the tank can't control the fight properly. Or, I guess, maybe we just shouldn't have PvE tanks anymore because we have Dark Convergence now? We can't even get away from being trolled by the set when we go to PvE. What is ZOS thinking having this set still in game?

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_RichLambert

Brrrofski · December 2021

Yeh, it's still ridiculous in PvP.

The same thing happens every time something is added in to "bust zergs".

Zergs run them. And it's super effective against smaller groups.

It really needs to go.

sharquez · December 2021

Maybe tying it to ground effect ultimates only so as to avoid it being spammed on cooldown?

redspecter23 · December 2021

If you're running into issues in PVE, ask those players to stop or vote kick them or fill your group with friends or guildmates that won't do something so disruptive to the group. Don't blame the set for the poor teamwork behavior of your group in PVE.

As far as PVP is concerned, you're correct that it shouldn't pull players off of walls or through walls or things such as that. ZOS should look more closely at that issue.

jaws343 · December 2021

From a PVE perspective, there are like 8 other sets that also have pull mechanics. DPS rarely use any of them. Very rarely. Mostly only for solo or overland stuff. Even so, DC does a decent amount of damage after the pull, so even as a tank, it is pretty welcome to not need to group a bunch of adds who are mostly dead immediately after the pull.

DrSlaughtr · December 2021

Personally love it in pve.

In pvp however it's funny that it's almost entirely run by comp ball groups, the very groups it's meant to combat, to run over anyone in their path. They themselves also run snow treaders, allowing them to easily escape before the explosion, as it negates the stun and scare.

I do recommend everyone run snow treaders if possible. It won't stop the pull but it will help you get out.

jaws343 · December 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Personally love it in pve.

In pvp however it's funny that it's almost entirely run by comp ball groups, the very groups it's meant to combat, to run over anyone in their path. They themselves also run snow treaders, allowing them to easily escape before the explosion, as it negates the stun and scare.

I do recommend everyone run snow treaders if possible. It won't stop the pull but it will help you get out.

I've actually been having a bit of fun running it solo on my Magden. Deep fissure, into winter's revenge to proc, end them with a cliff racer. Or, hitting Northern Storm, Deep Fissure, then winter's revenge. Absolutely wrecks people with the DC proc.

techyeshic · December 2021

I've noticed faction stacks filled with 5 or more DC procs and ricocheting around players.

I'm not dieing to DC. I'm dieing to everything else while I evade DC in futility while it fills entire courtyards, doesn't always show as enemy AOE, pulls you when you appear to be out of range, pulls from different elevation levels which no other pull is allowed to do.

It's really quite simple. The pull should grant the CC immunity like every other hard CC in game! It should not work at different levels like every other pull in game. And it needs to give accurate location feedback (good luck with that one)

DrSlaughtr · December 2021

Pull not following cc immunity rules and being able to stack a full group work of DC on top of one another are the two biggest issues for me.

It is primarily run by ball groups to wipe any opposition off the map until people sign off from frustration.

xDeusEJRx · December 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Personally love it in pve.

In pvp however it's funny that it's almost entirely run by comp ball groups, the very groups it's meant to combat, to run over anyone in their path. They themselves also run snow treaders, allowing them to easily escape before the explosion, as it negates the stun and scare.

I do recommend everyone run snow treaders if possible. It won't stop the pull but it will help you get out.

Well, DC was not meant to combat ball groups, it was made to combat large groups/zergs. ZoS make it abundantly clear in their patch notes who it's meant to target. People keep saying it's not effective against ball groups and being used by them, it's meant to wipe zergs and faction stacking groups

biminirwb17_ESO · December 2021

I am seeing it used less and less in Cyrodiil, mainly because people have got bored of it and have moved on. The most times I see it used are small group tanky necros who get unsuspecting (mainly new players) into a choke point and use Grave Robber , Necro bash ult, and Necro fear, plus the GR synergy. Or a similar thing on a keep back flag.

Its a one trick show and knowing its coming makes it easy to avoid.

I was surprised that it took such a short while to go the way of other sets du jour, but the pull off walls MUST be addressed as it removes a basic element of the game.

Tommy_The_Gun · December 2021

I agree with OP. DC set is the reason why I don't PvP anymore as much as I used to. Occasionality I am in Cyro just to grab an Elder Scroll quest, but I rarely move outside of my home base.

Brrrofski wrote: »

Yeh, it's still ridiculous in PvP.

The same thing happens every time something is added in to "bust zergs".

Zergs run them. And it's super effective against smaller groups.

It really needs to go.

Yep. The only time when something actually worked against ball groups and not in their favour was that moment when ZOS changed Pale Order ring.

https://eso-sets.com/set/ring-of-the-pale-order

(1 item) Restore 20% of the damage you deal as Health. This value is decreased by 4% per ally you are grouped with. You cannot be healed by anyone but yourself.

Some time ago, when this mythic was introduced, it simply healed you. Later they added groups size scaling, so the larger the group you are in, the set gets weaker. And I do believe that in an environment like Cyro or IC, where you have a mixed gameplays (solo, small scale, ball group) without any kind of MM, it is pretty much the only way to balance it.

A scaling like this should be added to battle spirit, so that abilities & sets would get weaker the more people are in the group.

Note: It is not like I have something against "playing with friends" or something like that. The motto of the game is to play how you want or like. But, whenever we have a bis (best in slot) set or bis gear or bis class or bis setup, it gets nerfed immediately in the next patch or even by a hot-fix patch. Ball groups are technically "BiS" style of gameplay in Cyro, as they are the most effective and have little to no counters. That is why people run them. But the point is - every nerf so far that was supposed to reduce "ball group" effectives either did not affected those groups or - buffed them instead.

In every other game that wants a fair gameplay, this kind of imbalance would be fixed aeons ago.

sbialkow · January 2022

All that said, Dark Convergence is currently broken. The 50% damage increase per enemy doesn’t work. I like using it running solo non-vet dungeons. I have run it in random dailies and no one seems to care. It is still useful in PvP if only for the stun effect.

In terms of being pulled off walls, I have found that it doesn’t. It may pull you to the edge but as long as one doesn’t knee jerk react and run or roll dodge in the wrong direction, you won’t fall off. The pull isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.

In any event it is not working as described and I look forward to it being fixed.

Necrotech_Master · January 2022

sbialkow wrote: »

All that said, Dark Convergence is currently broken. The 50% damage increase per enemy doesn’t work. I like using it running solo non-vet dungeons. I have run it in random dailies and no one seems to care. It is still useful in PvP if only for the stun effect.

In terms of being pulled off walls, I have found that it doesn’t. It may pull you to the edge but as long as one doesn’t knee jerk react and run or roll dodge in the wrong direction, you won’t fall off. The pull isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.

In any event it is not working as described and I look forward to it being fixed.

this is my experience with it, the scaling damage is definitely broken, and what is killing poeple the most now are necromancers who colossus ult triggering DC and then a VD blowing everyone up, but i hardly ever see dark convergence on my kill recaps anymore

i personally have a mag necro running balorgh + plaguebreak + dark convergence, but i use this again more in pve than pvp (in some easier vet dungeons i can still fully 1 shot large groups of enemies because plaguebreak does scale in dmg and colossus ult can apply plague on up to 3 targets (although annoyingly blastbones CANT apply plague))

Kwoung · January 2022

sbialkow wrote: »

In terms of being pulled off walls, I have found that it doesn’t. It may pull you to the edge but as long as one doesn’t knee jerk react and run or roll dodge in the wrong direction, you won’t fall off. The pull isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.

Actually, it depends upon the person casting it and them knowing exactly where to place it to fully yank folks off walls. I actually got really good at it and know most of the spots that will result in the guy up top plummeting down... even after the so-called fix. Just randomly tossing it up there doesn't work though... and pretty much never did. You may be seeing less of it happening now, because it became boring and for me at least, I went back to wearing gear that isn't so cheesy as I am sure others did after the fun wore off.

FrancisCrawford · January 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sbialkow wrote: »

All that said, Dark Convergence is currently broken. The 50% damage increase per enemy doesn’t work. I like using it running solo non-vet dungeons. I have run it in random dailies and no one seems to care. It is still useful in PvP if only for the stun effect.

In terms of being pulled off walls, I have found that it doesn’t. It may pull you to the edge but as long as one doesn’t knee jerk react and run or roll dodge in the wrong direction, you won’t fall off. The pull isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.

In any event it is not working as described and I look forward to it being fixed.

this is my experience with it, the scaling damage is definitely broken, and what is killing poeple the most now are necromancers who colossus ult triggering DC and then a VD blowing everyone up, but i hardly ever see dark convergence on my kill recaps anymore

i personally have a mag necro running balorgh + plaguebreak + dark convergence, but i use this again more in pve than pvp (in some easier vet dungeons i can still fully 1 shot large groups of enemies because plaguebreak does scale in dmg and colossus ult can apply plague on up to 3 targets (although annoyingly blastbones CANT apply plague))

What's the point of Plaguebreak in PvE? Does killing somebody count as "early removal" for proccing the explosion?

Jaraal · January 2022

"Fixed an issue where this set could hit targets outside of its (sic) line of sight or pull them from areas they should not have been."

So apparently pouring oil from the third floor is a place where players "should not have been"? Because the set still pulls those players to the ground and through doors and walls.

maxjapank · January 2022

I use Dark Convergence on my healer for dungeon runs. It’s awesome. I always let the tank go in first, but then I help pull everything in to them. I’ve had numerous tanks thank me for doing that. This is not WoW where the tank has to maintain agro on everything. As long as you maintain taunt on the biggest mob in the group, that’s your job.

Don’t nerf something that is fun and works really well in pve. Your argument about mobs being all over the place can also occur by dps not running mobs into the middle anyway.

Kwoung · January 2022

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sbialkow wrote: »

All that said, Dark Convergence is currently broken. The 50% damage increase per enemy doesn’t work. I like using it running solo non-vet dungeons. I have run it in random dailies and no one seems to care. It is still useful in PvP if only for the stun effect.

In terms of being pulled off walls, I have found that it doesn’t. It may pull you to the edge but as long as one doesn’t knee jerk react and run or roll dodge in the wrong direction, you won’t fall off. The pull isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.

In any event it is not working as described and I look forward to it being fixed.

this is my experience with it, the scaling damage is definitely broken, and what is killing poeple the most now are necromancers who colossus ult triggering DC and then a VD blowing everyone up, but i hardly ever see dark convergence on my kill recaps anymore

i personally have a mag necro running balorgh + plaguebreak + dark convergence, but i use this again more in pve than pvp (in some easier vet dungeons i can still fully 1 shot large groups of enemies because plaguebreak does scale in dmg and colossus ult can apply plague on up to 3 targets (although annoyingly blastbones CANT apply plague))

What's the point of Plaguebreak in PvE? Does killing somebody count as "early removal" for proccing the explosion?

Wondering the same thing, do mobs purge bad effects off themselves? How can that set even proc in PVE?

BlakMarket · January 2022

Its not even bad, yes it is annoying but after nerf the set is not overtuned its simply utility now for necro harmony builds and groups for stacking zerg/ulti dumps.

If you read this and having problem with the set, try this, whenever you see a necro, especially mag just be hyper vigilant until they have used the pull, then count down from 20 before its up again. When you see organized groups, slot your immovable pots they are your best friend if you decided to engage with them.

buttaface · January 2022

Have tanked with it lots in low pve dungeons and love it, I've never seen a healer or dps using it, but imagine a few out there do which wouldn't bother me as long as they are not preaggroing me my pulls with it... just the same as any other preaggro by healers or dps. In higher PvE. it loses its oomph because the mobs are more powerful and not in large packs, so there are many better options in higher pve. I hope they don't nerf it into uselessness for low pve because it's plain fun, has a cool visual effect and teammates love it.

xDeusEJRx · January 2022

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sbialkow wrote: »

All that said, Dark Convergence is currently broken. The 50% damage increase per enemy doesn’t work. I like using it running solo non-vet dungeons. I have run it in random dailies and no one seems to care. It is still useful in PvP if only for the stun effect.

In terms of being pulled off walls, I have found that it doesn’t. It may pull you to the edge but as long as one doesn’t knee jerk react and run or roll dodge in the wrong direction, you won’t fall off. The pull isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.

In any event it is not working as described and I look forward to it being fixed.

this is my experience with it, the scaling damage is definitely broken, and what is killing poeple the most now are necromancers who colossus ult triggering DC and then a VD blowing everyone up, but i hardly ever see dark convergence on my kill recaps anymore

i personally have a mag necro running balorgh + plaguebreak + dark convergence, but i use this again more in pve than pvp (in some easier vet dungeons i can still fully 1 shot large groups of enemies because plaguebreak does scale in dmg and colossus ult can apply plague on up to 3 targets (although annoyingly blastbones CANT apply plague))

What's the point of Plaguebreak in PvE? Does killing somebody count as "early removal" for proccing the explosion?

yes killing early does count as proccing the explosion. Don't know how you haven't seen videos of people getting purged in cyrodiil because a guard or clannfear got killed

Necrotech_Master · January 2022

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sbialkow wrote: »

All that said, Dark Convergence is currently broken. The 50% damage increase per enemy doesn’t work. I like using it running solo non-vet dungeons. I have run it in random dailies and no one seems to care. It is still useful in PvP if only for the stun effect.

In terms of being pulled off walls, I have found that it doesn’t. It may pull you to the edge but as long as one doesn’t knee jerk react and run or roll dodge in the wrong direction, you won’t fall off. The pull isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.

In any event it is not working as described and I look forward to it being fixed.

this is my experience with it, the scaling damage is definitely broken, and what is killing poeple the most now are necromancers who colossus ult triggering DC and then a VD blowing everyone up, but i hardly ever see dark convergence on my kill recaps anymore

i personally have a mag necro running balorgh + plaguebreak + dark convergence, but i use this again more in pve than pvp (in some easier vet dungeons i can still fully 1 shot large groups of enemies because plaguebreak does scale in dmg and colossus ult can apply plague on up to 3 targets (although annoyingly blastbones CANT apply plague))

What's the point of Plaguebreak in PvE? Does killing somebody count as "early removal" for proccing the explosion?

in the same update that heavily nerfed dark convergence, it also changed plaguebreak

plaguebreak explosion has lower base dmg but the same scaling as dark convergence (+50% per target) and it was changed to cause the explosion on death if the DoT was still active

the DoT can still only be applied once per attack (even when using an AOE, but when using an AOE it just afflicts a different target on each cast if multiple are available)

Casul · January 2022

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sbialkow wrote: »

All that said, Dark Convergence is currently broken. The 50% damage increase per enemy doesn’t work. I like using it running solo non-vet dungeons. I have run it in random dailies and no one seems to care. It is still useful in PvP if only for the stun effect.

In terms of being pulled off walls, I have found that it doesn’t. It may pull you to the edge but as long as one doesn’t knee jerk react and run or roll dodge in the wrong direction, you won’t fall off. The pull isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.

In any event it is not working as described and I look forward to it being fixed.

this is my experience with it, the scaling damage is definitely broken, and what is killing poeple the most now are necromancers who colossus ult triggering DC and then a VD blowing everyone up, but i hardly ever see dark convergence on my kill recaps anymore

i personally have a mag necro running balorgh + plaguebreak + dark convergence, but i use this again more in pve than pvp (in some easier vet dungeons i can still fully 1 shot large groups of enemies because plaguebreak does scale in dmg and colossus ult can apply plague on up to 3 targets (although annoyingly blastbones CANT apply plague))

What's the point of Plaguebreak in PvE? Does killing somebody count as "early removal" for proccing the explosion?

in the same update that heavily nerfed dark convergence, it also changed plaguebreak

plaguebreak explosion has lower base dmg but the same scaling as dark convergence (+50% per target) and it was changed to cause the explosion on death if the DoT was still active

the DoT can still only be applied once per attack (even when using an AOE, but when using an AOE it just afflicts a different target on each cast if multiple are available)

Templar jabs can apply it to an entire group easy, my stamplar was popping 60-70k on spell scar groups.

Necrotech_Master · January 2022

BuildMan wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

sbialkow wrote: »

All that said, Dark Convergence is currently broken. The 50% damage increase per enemy doesn’t work. I like using it running solo non-vet dungeons. I have run it in random dailies and no one seems to care. It is still useful in PvP if only for the stun effect.

In terms of being pulled off walls, I have found that it doesn’t. It may pull you to the edge but as long as one doesn’t knee jerk react and run or roll dodge in the wrong direction, you won’t fall off. The pull isn’t as bad as people make it out to be.

In any event it is not working as described and I look forward to it being fixed.

this is my experience with it, the scaling damage is definitely broken, and what is killing poeple the most now are necromancers who colossus ult triggering DC and then a VD blowing everyone up, but i hardly ever see dark convergence on my kill recaps anymore

i personally have a mag necro running balorgh + plaguebreak + dark convergence, but i use this again more in pve than pvp (in some easier vet dungeons i can still fully 1 shot large groups of enemies because plaguebreak does scale in dmg and colossus ult can apply plague on up to 3 targets (although annoyingly blastbones CANT apply plague))

What's the point of Plaguebreak in PvE? Does killing somebody count as "early removal" for proccing the explosion?

in the same update that heavily nerfed dark convergence, it also changed plaguebreak

plaguebreak explosion has lower base dmg but the same scaling as dark convergence (+50% per target) and it was changed to cause the explosion on death if the DoT was still active

the DoT can still only be applied once per attack (even when using an AOE, but when using an AOE it just afflicts a different target on each cast if multiple are available)

Templar jabs can apply it to an entire group easy, my stamplar was popping 60-70k on spell scar groups.

necro colossus works the same way, each application of direct dmg is considered a separate attack, although not many direct dmg skills have multiple AOE hits in a single execution (the only skills i know capable of doing multiple direct hits in 1 use would be jabs, colossus, and the dagger throw in duel wield that bounces to other targets)

EmperorIl · January 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Personally love it in pve.

In pvp however it's funny that it's almost entirely run by comp ball groups, the very groups it's meant to combat, to run over anyone in their path. They themselves also run snow treaders, allowing them to easily escape before the explosion, as it negates the stun and scare.

I do recommend everyone run snow treaders if possible. It won't stop the pull but it will help you get out.

I've actually been having a bit of fun running it solo on my Magden. Deep fissure, into winter's revenge to proc, end them with a cliff racer. Or, hitting Northern Storm, Deep Fissure, then winter's revenge. Absolutely wrecks people with the DC proc.

You're having fun at the expense of literally everyone who is not you or on your side. This is the problem.

Iriidius · January 2022

Dark Convergence pull ignoring stun immunity also favors groups. Who usually has stun immunity? The group or the solo player? Does the solo player stun everyone in the group or does one player in the group has stun and stunns the solo player to drain his already low stamina, prevent him from running away and ult dump him while he cant defend? Does one player use multiple dark convergence at the same time or does a group of players use multiple dark convergence to pull the solo player from one dark convergence to the other.
Has the solo player enaugh stamina to break free from dark convergence or have the group players enaugh stamina to break free?
Reducing dark convergence strength similar to pale order ring and make it not ignore stun immunity would definitely reduce its usefulness for Xv1. But I dont see dark convergence as often atm anyway.

Flangdoodle · January 2022

Jaraal wrote: »

"Fixed an issue where this set could hit targets outside of its (sic)]

No, that's correct. No need for the "sic".

It's = "it is"

</grammar lesson>

Hapexamendios · February 2022

Not a problem in PVE dungeons imo

EdmondDontes · February 2022

Hapexamendios wrote: »

Not a problem in PVE dungeons imo

This is the PvP forums.