Whitestrake's Mayhem PvE alternative?

blktauna · February 2022

Meiox wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

If we switch pvp on in Summerset and Elsweyr and Blackwood during those events, then sure, I think we have a deal.

9/10 it's PVErs who kill each other in towns. Pvp players are actually playing pvp and don't bother with the towns, unless it's to take it for a spawn point.

You say when a player kills another player in a town they are still doing pve? /s
How have people to play to 'actually playing pvp' ?

Those low lives are generally sad pvers who can't actually do pvp so they choose to target folks that have lesser skills. They rty to feel big and it just makes them look like jerks.

People who actually spend time in pvp have other fish to fry.

Remathilis · February 2022

The big problem is that WM is designed to cause maximum pain to both types of players. PVPers don't want to run dailies in IC or in towns, and PvE doesn't want to be target practice while they do. It would be nice if there was two ways to earn the rewards, a PvE friendly way (a good example would be getting IC tickets from WGT or ICP) and a more PvP friendly ones (rewards of the worthy for example). That ZoS just sends PvErs into the zones to be lambs for the slaughter by gankers while the real PvPers are just in it to be getting the x2 AP shows a fundamental disconnect for what both audiences want from these events.

Aardappelboom · February 2022

This event is fun because everyone is on the battlefield, noob or not, I actually got into PVP last event and haven't been able to stop ever since, just take it as it is. It's actually fun to be in the danger zone.

Grouping up is really easy btw, just type lfg, there's always a group somewhere i' the pvp scene.

Minnesinger · February 2022

Vrienda wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Ok yet the event is actually very popular among pvpers and pvers. Just check the populations and added campaigns.

That's because of the rewards and no other reason lol

In your opinion. I feel the pvers like to pvp sometimes. Cyrodiil is 24/7 populated. Many pvers spend more time there than needed to get the tickets.

Agenericname · February 2022

Remathilis wrote: »

The big problem is that WM is designed to cause maximum pain to both types of players. PVPers don't want to run dailies in IC or in towns, and PvE doesn't want to be target practice while they do. It would be nice if there was two ways to earn the rewards, a PvE friendly way (a good example would be getting IC tickets from WGT or ICP) and a more PvP friendly ones (rewards of the worthy for example). That ZoS just sends PvErs into the zones to be lambs for the slaughter by gankers while the real PvPers are just in it to be getting the x2 AP shows a fundamental disconnect for what both audiences want from these events.

You dont need to do town quests as a pvper to get credit. Any will work; so kill 20 x or 40 players, take a keep, etc all count. Its not like PvPers need to stop PvPing. No PvE required.

As for IC, I dont mind the dailes and often do them. The dailes give telvar and the rune boxes are nice. Odds are, if you do them during the event youll find PvP easily enough.

allup8679 · February 2022

Vrienda wrote: »

So look, this event is pretty unpopular with PvErs for obvious reasons. The power and skill gap between people who actually PvP and people who just want their damn tickets is immense, which essentially results in frustration for the PvErs forced into these zones that are designed against the way they play the game.

Since I imagine a PvE phase for IC and Cyrodiil is off the table (Why), why not make Whitestrake's Mayhem a celebration of Cyrodiil? Let Gold Coast dailies give 1 ticket that's mutually exclusive with the Battlegrounds/Cyrodiil dailies. And then let Blackwood dailies give 2 tickets that're mutually exclusive with the Imperial City dailies, It's a win/win. PvPers still get to do their thing and PvErs have the option to not have a frustrating daily routine in ESO!

And maybe it'll cause less performance issues in Cyrodiil to boot.

Please

No.

colossalvoids · February 2022

Minnesinger wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Ok yet the event is actually very popular among pvpers and pvers. Just check the populations and added campaigns.

That's because of the rewards and no other reason lol

In your opinion. I feel the pvers like to pvp sometimes. Cyrodiil is 24/7 populated. Many pvers spend more time there than needed to get the tickets.

That's the point, it's events that are making people to like pvp in a first place. I would be pve exclusive player if not one of those years ago, it's drawing a lot of players in for a try.

If someone already experienced it and not liked their experience for whatever reason can just not participate, it's that easy. Addition of pve version of event would just make sure that a lot of folks won't have a chance to try out pvp entirely and even with such a performance full campaign is lotta fun.

There's enough tickets a year to skip half the events entirely, most rewards are buyable for gold at a trader anyways or given away for free in guilds.

Dem_kitkats1 · February 2022

Bat wrote: »

No comparison between running FG1 with skips on normal difficulty for event tickets, contra going up against seasoned PVPers as someone who don't usually play PVP.

There is absolutely no comparison, the criticism is absolutely warranted - PVP event feels less like an event for all players, exclusively like an event for PVP players, and furthermore with slight undertones of an event against PVE players, since they will always struggle a lot more than people who do PVP for fun in this game, to get their tickets - the struggle can be much more disheartening and maybe even psychologically damaging than whatever PVPers might feel about running FG1 with skips on normal difficulty for tickets. It would hurt no one if there were PVE instances of Cyrodiil and the Sewers, at least during these events. Literally no one would hurt from it.

PvE players get new content every year, the performance for their activities is 1000x more smoother, there are numerous events throughout the year that are PvE based, yet these 2 events are complained about the most. People say that PvP players are whiny, but when they finally get an event in which they can shine and be rewarded for their preferred mode of play, people complain and spout how unfair it is. PvP players spend countless hours grinding PvE content on a daily basis just to get the proper gear and skills to make their builds effective. So yeah, there is little sympathy for PvE players to have to adjust and work for their rewards in content that they don't particularly enjoy, for only a couple of weeks. Besides, you're basically doing PvE content with a little extra danger of encountering other players to get your rewards anyway. And if you keep an open mind, you might actually enjoy it. It's not like they're forcing you to take keeps, cap resources, or fight it out in a battleground to get your tickets.

PVErs have no problems dying in dungeons or trials, but if it's against another player it's psychologically damaging? Seems like you need to change your mindset. This is a game, dying is part of it regardless of what kind of content it is. Don't take dying more personally because it was due to an actual person behind the screen. Dying means that something is challenging for you and that's not a bad thing. If you're never dying in PvE or PvP it means that things are too easy for you. But if dying is that detrimental to your well being, then yes, skip this event. Also don't tell me it's psychologically damaging because PvP players are toxic. I've heard PvE players say just as nasty of things to eachother.

Dagoth_Rac · February 2022

I don't mind doing the PVP quests to get tickets. I have millions and millions of AP and all the PVP skill lines maxed out. But I do think there is a bit of willful ignorance to pretend that getting PVE tickets is just as much of a hassle for PVP players as it is for PVE players to get PVP tickets. The PVE quests are incredibly quick and simple. No PVP player has ever struggled to complete a PVE event quest. Even the "endgame" PVE event requires nothing more than killing the final boss of any normal dungeon like Fungal Grotto 1. If you are someone whose main focus is PVP, normal Fungal Grotto is a breeze to solo.

It is like comparing mountain climbing to going to the corner store to pick up milk. Those are not equivalent activities in terms of skill gap or barriers to entry.

People need to just be honest and say, "Getting tickets in PVP events is much more difficult than getting tickets in PVE events. Tough. I don't care. PVP is supposed to be harder." Rather than pretending that the two activities are equivalent.

sarahthes · February 2022

Tbh as a PvE main who PvPs casually I like grinding the town dailies during the event. I don't shoot first if someone from another alliance tries to make trouble, but I can usually take them out if they start being a bother.

Vrienda · February 2022

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

The thing I dislike mostly about PvP event is how much desperate ZOS is to populate badly designed zone that is Imperial City. There is a reason why this zone is dead empty 24/7 and even during events it usually ends up with each faction "maining" different IC campaigns...

IC is the only zone in the entire game that gets this much attention when it comes to event tickets (1 zone, but 2 events per year).

I used to love PvP in this game. Cyrodiil used to be awesome. Right now it is plagued with lag & server performance issues & I doubt it will get any better during this event.

But even as a PvP-er - I absolutely hate IC. It is not a fun place at all. It is basically narrow & confined space that promotes only ball groups & group ganking. Ideal place for um.. "Griefers" as it pretty much promotes & rewards it and thus it attracts people that find joy in it.

The sad thing about IC is... the questline there is absolutely great with a strong story and characters. At launch it felt dangerous. Like you had to stealth everywhere to get around the mobs etc. And then a player would come up behind you and yeet you with the force of a thousand suns and all that immersion was quickly lost. Because it felt less like a Daedra infested fallen capital and more like a Call of Duty match gone meme with some bunnyhopping ball of oneshots with a name like "l33t g4m3r" going around farming easy Tel Vars from PvErs.

Unlike Craglorn the mob patrols/density was -perfect- for a stealthy PvEr to weave in and out of, taking out isolated Daedra one at a time. That's less the case now with power creep but damn. When IC was empty I loved it.

Hentmereb · February 2022

colossalvoids wrote: »

Or just join a group and at least try to enjoy it the way it is? Most quests are pve conten here, you can easily ride to the destination with your alliance and not be even looked into in a process. Not that we have only pvp events and no pve ones, it's quite the contrary.

I have never, ever seen a group for PvE content in Cyrodiil or Imperial City being advertised nor looked for in the zone chats or any of my guilds.

The only time I dared to ask about a PvE group myself I got a few amused, but not unfriendly comments.

Gaebriel0410 · February 2022

Vrienda wrote: »

So look, this event is pretty unpopular with PvErs for obvious reasons. The power and skill gap between people who actually PvP and people who just want their damn tickets is immense, which essentially results in frustration for the PvErs forced into these zones that are designed against the way they play the game.

[/i]

The pvp zones were there before the tickets, so to say those zones are designed against the way people play the game is a bit overtly dramatic.

You don't like pvp but you do want the tickets, so.. that means you can either try pvp to get them, or not get the tickets. Pvp is part of ESO, so it's a bit unrealistic to expect everything to be changed just to accommodate those people who will absolutely never try any other gameplay aspect under any circumstances.

I'm not a 'pvper' by far, I've dabbled in it now and then but I'm pretty allround in what I like in ESO. I found pvp isn't the insurmountable hurdle it's sometimes made out to be. When collecting tickets in previous Whitestrake events, half of the time I had to go looking for pvp if I wanted to find it, the battles where you'll find the actual pvp players are around the strategic points on the map.

Whenever I was ganked by zergs inside quest buildings or something cheesy like that, my death recap usually showed skills that looked suspiciously like the current pve meta chaser builds.

But usually when I just wanted to grab a quick ticket without staying for a bit of pvp, I found it pretty quick to do a town daily on a low population server, so I'd say give it a shot.

Hentmereb · February 2022

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

Dude. Pve players have, what, 5+ events a year [snip]

[snip] Join a group, learn a thing or two about pvp and you can handle yourself ina pvp for a couple weeks.

It's twice a year. And then there's the imperial city one separately. Stop pretending PvPers are so hard done by. Ask ZOS for PvP servers if you want to gank people so much in the PvE events.

[edited to remove quote]

Wow, 2 pvp events a year. You know, pvp players are forces to do pve, but not vice versa?

No sympathies, not what so ever

Significant part of the game's main storyline is locked in PvP zones from PvE players. It's a rare PvP player who is that interested about the storyline in Imperial City, at least after they have gotten through it once, but most PvE players just want to experience it once and get the story arc done.

And this is something which seems so very, very hard for PvP players to understand - PvE players don't want to take away 'Your Content' (which is everybody's content), they just want to experience the quests, got their character through the storyline, and be done with it.

And it's not PvE players fault that PvP players are so thin on the ground in 'Their' zones beyond these events...

Arunei · February 2022

I think one of the biggest turn-offs is the mindset that comes around PvP events that PvEers aren't welcome and that they're targeted specifically because they're easy to kill. I know this isn't how all PvPers are, but there have been enough posts from people going on about how PvEers are taking up all the slots that apparently are for PvPers only, never mind the fact that PvEers can't get the tickets otherwise, and there have also been plenty of posts from people bragging about how they're looking forward to camping and farming PvEers.

It's frustrating and disheartening to see year after year.

Hentmereb · February 2022

ShawnLaRock wrote: »

Umm… the 6 IC dailies and 49 Cyrodiil town dailies ARE PVE.

S.

No, IC dailies are PvE players being fed to gankers for the amusement, enjoyment and benefit of PvP players.

But then that's what IC altogether is really only about. It's a fiasco.

Many Cyrodiil town dailies can be done avoiding PvP, especially if done in the quieter hours during the event, but if you end in a prolonged fight with guards there will be enemy players soon rushing in, turning the supposed PvE dailies into PvP.

I would say forget IC if you can't get a decent group in which to do them and concentrate on Cyrodiil.

Vrienda · February 2022

colossalvoids wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Ok yet the event is actually very popular among pvpers and pvers. Just check the populations and added campaigns.

That's because of the rewards and no other reason lol

In your opinion. I feel the pvers like to pvp sometimes. Cyrodiil is 24/7 populated. Many pvers spend more time there than needed to get the tickets.

That's the point, it's events that are making people to like pvp in a first place. I would be pve exclusive player if not one of those years ago, it's drawing a lot of players in for a try.

If someone already experienced it and not liked their experience for whatever reason can just not participate, it's that easy. Addition of pve version of event would just make sure that a lot of folks won't have a chance to try out pvp entirely and even with such a performance full campaign is lotta fun.

There's enough tickets a year to skip half the events entirely, most rewards are buyable for gold at a trader anyways or given away for free in guilds.

Thing is, what got you into PvP really? Was it doing your bruma (Or other city) quest for the ticket? Or did you do actual PvP because the scroll encouraged you to.

The tickets being rewarded from what they're rewarded from do nothing to encourage PvP and serve only to punish and frustrate PvE players.

Moloch1514 · February 2022

Buy tickets with Crowns? Thats ZOS' solution for this issue

colossalvoids · February 2022

Hentmereb wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Or just join a group and at least try to enjoy it the way it is? Most quests are pve conten here, you can easily ride to the destination with your alliance and not be even looked into in a process. Not that we have only pvp events and no pve ones, it's quite the contrary.

I have never, ever seen a group for PvE content in Cyrodiil or Imperial City being advertised nor looked for in the zone chats or any of my guilds.

The only time I dared to ask about a PvE group myself I got a few amused, but not unfriendly comments.

Obviously so, because groups are created for sieges and map runarounds, not for a daily farming but you obviously can create one and have a group aimed to hold a city while doing quests here, as example.

Or just join any currently running one, take all available quests or ask for a share of any particular one (it's common, everyone asks for shares) and assist whilst fulfilling quest objectives in a process. Also such groups tend to do cities so you would probably have time to do a quest while they're taking it, you're not expected to follow every of their moves right away, especially when event is going.

In IC it's the same, you just taking all the quests and join group after, after couple laps around Imperial City you probably would be done with most of them, you don't need a "strictly pve group" for that. But actually social and trading guilds are always running Molag runs in sewers or actual quest groups, so idk might want to join a decent one.

Arbit · February 2022

As a pve player, I hate going into cyro or ic. Some people are civil, like when you go to the sewers to beat molag bals shade and everyone hangs out regardless of faction, but there’s always some jerk whose gotta slam you for the sake of it. Like using you to farm some tel var the easy way with a nightblade. Picking off stragglers from pve groups getting the bosses in ic.

Pvp is cancer to pve players who typically stay away from such scenarios. As a person who is so done with pvp games like league, I hate being forced into getting tickets this way. Cattle for slaughter really in the face of competitive pvpers. Ik they’ve got to feed the pvpers in this game to keep them happy even for a little bit, but at the expense of pvers. I just don’t think it’s fair or right.

If pvp was so popular we’d have pvp servers and IC wouldn’t be a ghost town most of the time. But it’s not, and this is because most players are pvers, and frankly aren’t even hardcore at that. You’re asking people to be sacrifices. Pve does not ask that of you, it asks for your time and some commitment.

I am all for having a pve alternative so we do not need to be cattle for slaughter during this event. Cause that’s all the pvers are during this event really. I need my tickets, and you are forcing me to degrade myself by being used in this fashion for some cheap kills and mild entertainment for some pvper.

Just my opinion.

Arbit · February 2022

Moloch1514 wrote: »

Buy tickets for Crowns? Thats ZOS' solution for this issue

Oof I bet that’s partially the tactic here…

Hentmereb · February 2022

Eric_Prince wrote: »

Every damn year...

Just go in Cyro and IC BEFORE the event starts and at the time everyone's asleep, preferably on nightblade char (I have two myself just for that) or with invisibility potions. In Cyro do simple quests in towns, they take 5 minutes at most each. Then do all 6 dailies in IC. If your timing is right, you'll never see anyone there. I prefer to spend just one early morning and then be free for the whole event. Then turn them one at a time.

You'll need no more than 3 chars. Or 2 if you'll skip final day. There. And no need to complain every year. PvPers don't complain when they have to do Undaunted celebration. They don't create threads like "Let us kill team members in dungeons and receive tickets for that!!1111".

This is the PvP players 'logic' - one should select their class solely (Nightblade) just so that they could do IC with least amount of getting ganked.

I have heard it many times before - "Play a Nightblade, run with a couple of Sorcs" and so forth.

It's not logic, it's utter absurdity. If you need to select one specific class for the entire game to be able to deal one zone without utter frustration and waste of time, then the problem is with the zone.

Agenericname · February 2022

Vrienda wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

Ok yet the event is actually very popular among pvpers and pvers. Just check the populations and added campaigns.

That's because of the rewards and no other reason lol

In your opinion. I feel the pvers like to pvp sometimes. Cyrodiil is 24/7 populated. Many pvers spend more time there than needed to get the tickets.

That's the point, it's events that are making people to like pvp in a first place. I would be pve exclusive player if not one of those years ago, it's drawing a lot of players in for a try.

If someone already experienced it and not liked their experience for whatever reason can just not participate, it's that easy. Addition of pve version of event would just make sure that a lot of folks won't have a chance to try out pvp entirely and even with such a performance full campaign is lotta fun.

There's enough tickets a year to skip half the events entirely, most rewards are buyable for gold at a trader anyways or given away for free in guilds.

Thing is, what got you into PvP really? Was it doing your bruma (Or other city) quest for the ticket? Or did you do actual PvP because the scroll encouraged you to.

The tickets being rewarded from what they're rewarded from do nothing to encourage PvP and serve only to punish and frustrate PvE players.

The tickets are awarded through various quests, and they do encourage PvP, hence the AP gains. ZOS gave players that didnt want to complete quests like "kill 20 night blades" or "kill 40 players" an avenue to do something else.

Hentmereb wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Or just join a group and at least try to enjoy it the way it is? Most quests are pve conten here, you can easily ride to the destination with your alliance and not be even looked into in a process. Not that we have only pvp events and no pve ones, it's quite the contrary.

I have never, ever seen a group for PvE content in Cyrodiil or Imperial City being advertised nor looked for in the zone chats or any of my guilds.

The only time I dared to ask about a PvE group myself I got a few amused, but not unfriendly comments.

I missed the last MYM, maybe the last 2, but the most recent one that I was able to play did have a few rather large groups doing PvE. They asked in zone and one of the replies was to make their own if they couldnt find one. They did, and I joined. They had forward camps and siege. They were serious about their quests!

Most of the guilds that Ive been in do run something for the events.

perfiction · February 2022

It's funny that during pvp event all new rewards drop from pve activities (grinding bossess) yet pve-only players ask for an alternative.

Danel_Vadan · February 2022

Hentmereb wrote: »

Significant part of the game's main storyline is locked in PvP zones from PvE players.

What nonsense. Pure copium. Only one questline, comprised of 8 quests, is locked in a PVP zone. All others are repeatable dailies.

honglatongla · February 2022

Wow, event hasn't even started yet. Stop complainig and go do quests in whatever the towns in Cyrodiil are called. Also IC part of the event requires zero pvp.

MorninStar · February 2022

We have 2 pvp events a year and as much as I dislike pvp, I do them. Yes they can be frustrating but, they can also be fun. You learn a few things well in there like how to sneak better and stay away from the enemy or you learn how to die with grace and enjoy the fact that this is only a game. Don't complain about it just do it and enjoy it.

KaGaOri · February 2022

Not really fan of PvP or this event, but getting tickets isn't much problem even for casual PvE player (like me). Just go to Cyrodil, look what is the neartest town to you according this map:
CYRODIIL-TOWNS.jpg?w=364&ssl=1

The nearest town should be deep enough into your alliance territory, that getting atacked by enemy players is pretty unlikely. The town quests are very easy - like walk twenty steps away from quest giver -> kill two very weak NPCs -> grab a thing -> bring thing to quest giver -> quest is done.

For IC pick quest without good gank spots (personal favorite is https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Historical_Accuracy , will avoid https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Priceless_Treasures at all cost - ritual brazier is a proper death trap). Stopped trying to make PvP build for the event - can't compete with experienced PvP players anyway and can easily nuke the NPCs which needs to be nuked for quest very easily on PvE setup (= less time to finish quest, less chance for enemy players to kill me with quest half done).

Kwoung · February 2022

I PVP, but for this event I run all my PVE characters through low pop servers and have for years. I have been ganked maybe 3x in all those years running town quests during the event. I have actually waved at more PVEers from other factions doing their quests than have been shot at by them. The town quests are easy and if you have a clue, by doing even a slight bit of research first, you probably won't even realize it is a PVP zone.

I will warn you though, the PVEers who have a rough time, are usually the ones who brought it upon themselves for taking pot shots at other players. That is just asking to be stomped.

Vrienda · February 2022

Gaebriel0410 wrote: »

Vrienda wrote: »

So look, this event is pretty unpopular with PvErs for obvious reasons. The power and skill gap between people who actually PvP and people who just want their damn tickets is immense, which essentially results in frustration for the PvErs forced into these zones that are designed against the way they play the game.

[/i]

The pvp zones were there before the tickets, so to say those zones are designed against the way people play the game is a bit overtly dramatic.

It's not. You can't go into a PvP area with a PvE build and expect anything but getting oneshot. How long they've been in game doesn't mean anything.