VR grind is making pvp intolerable and miserable for me (and many others).

Jyiiga · April 2014

The difference between a level 10 and a level 50 was bad enough. The difference between a level 50 and a V10 is utterly massive.

At the end of beta I was going into ESO with the expectation that PVP would provide below average exp (but tolerable). After several nerfs, that idea flew out the window. I then made the mistake of thinking that Vet Ranks would provide small increases in power, kind of like Realm Rank in DAOC. Once again I was proven wrong.

Now here I sit at V2, which is well ahead of the curve for your average player... Yet still there are plenty of V10 players. How some of them got there so fast I have no idea, but I do know one thing. If I try to use PVP to level up in (the part of the game I want to play) it will be months before I reach V10. Which is a bit to long for me to spend being the punching bag.

This leaves me with a few alternatives. Grind out every single other zones quests in the game. In effect going from 1-50 two more times. Without the benefit of the main quest, the mages guests or the fighters guild guests. All of which were the most engaging and interesting quest lines.

Find an AOE grind spot and do something I have not done since 2002 and grind mobs till I am sore and sick of the game. Something that I expect only from bad foreign MMOs at this point.

Lastly, I can just cancel my sub and wait for the "miracle" patch to make the progression a tad more tolerable. While also praying that they make something, anything in PVP give a reasonable amount of experience points.

In short. I think your Vet Ranks provide to much of a power increase, they should have been subtle. Allowing for some growth in power, without making other people useless (or even unwanted) in the PVP scene.

Cydone · April 2014

Jyiiga wrote: »

The difference between a level 10 and a level 50 was bad enough. The difference between a level 50 and a V10 is utterly massive.

At the end of beta I was going into ESO with the expectation that PVP would provide below average exp (but tolerable). After several nerfs, that idea flew out the window. I then made the mistake of thinking that Vet Ranks would provide small increases in power, kind of like Realm Rank in DAOC. Once again I was proven wrong.

Now here I sit at V2, which is well ahead of the curve for your average player... Yet still there are plenty of V10 players. How some of them got there so fast I have no idea, but I do know one thing. If I try to use PVP to level up in (the part of the game I want to play) it will be months before I reach V10. Which is a bit to long for me to spend being the punching bag.

This leaves me with a few alternatives. Grind out every single other zones quests in the game. In effect going from 1-50 two more times. Without the benefit of the main quest, the mages guests or the fighters guild guests. All of which were the most engaging and interesting quest lines.

Find an AOE grind spot and do something I have not done since 2002 and grind mobs till I am sore and sick of the game. Something that I expect only from bad foreign MMOs at this point.

Lastly, I can just cancel my sub and wait for the "miracle" patch to make the progression a tad more tolerable. While also praying that they make something, anything in PVP give a reasonable amount of experience points.

In short. I think your Vet Ranks provide to much of a power increase, they should have been subtle. Allowing for some growth in power, without making other people useless (or even unwanted) in the PVP scene.

Nothing hits harder than voting with your wallet. Something me and my entire guild did last week. With the astounding imbalances in a LOT of abilities, in pvp, the lag, the glitches, the LONG loading screens, the crashes, the uninspired VR leveling system, the complete lack of ability to level via PvP....this game has far too much going against it right now to justify paying for a monthly sub.

lao · April 2014

Jyiiga wrote: »

The difference between a level 10 and a level 50 was bad enough. The difference between a level 50 and a V10 is utterly massive.

At the end of beta I was going into ESO with the expectation that PVP would provide below average exp (but tolerable). After several nerfs, that idea flew out the window. I then made the mistake of thinking that Vet Ranks would provide small increases in power, kind of like Realm Rank in DAOC. Once again I was proven wrong.

Now here I sit at V2, which is well ahead of the curve for your average player... Yet still there are plenty of V10 players. How some of them got there so fast I have no idea, but I do know one thing. If I try to use PVP to level up in (the part of the game I want to play) it will be months before I reach V10. Which is a bit to long for me to spend being the punching bag.

This leaves me with a few alternatives. Grind out every single other zones quests in the game. In effect going from 1-50 two more times. Without the benefit of the main quest, the mages guests or the fighters guild guests. All of which were the most engaging and interesting quest lines.

Find an AOE grind spot and do something I have not done since 2002 and grind mobs till I am sore and sick of the game. Something that I expect only from bad foreign MMOs at this point.

Lastly, I can just cancel my sub and wait for the "miracle" patch to make the progression a tad more tolerable. While also praying that they make something, anything in PVP give a reasonable amount of experience points.

In short. I think your Vet Ranks provide to much of a power increase, they should have been subtle. Allowing for some growth in power, without making other people useless (or even unwanted) in the PVP scene.

??

the difference between a rr1 and a rr11 in DAoC is is infinity times bigger than the difference between a vr1 and a vr10 in eso

when ur constantly losing without a chance vs vr10 ppl as vr2 thats not because of VR. im not vr10 myself yet either cos i cba to pve that much but i had no problems killing most vr10s i fought @ vr2. (vr5 atm)

sure if a vr10 guy for once actually knows how to play its gonna be tricky at vr2 but not impossible. the power gap in DAoC was ALOT bigger between low and high rr´s. in particular among soloers. (hi2u purge, ip, mop, aug str, aug dex, mom, wp etcetc) thats coming from some1 who got over 150 million rps (8v8 and 1v1) in DAoC combined over the years. all a vr10 has over a vr1 is what? ~300 in each stat? that equals about 30 extra dmg if even that.

Kolache · April 2014

Since it's going to be VR12 soon already, I'm sure this issue will have to get addressed sooner or later. If they add a couple VR levels every month or two there's no way they can expect enough new players to join PvP soon enough to keep it populated.

CaptainBl00D · April 2014

Im not even halfway though vr1 and im burnt out, its just not that fun. I cant imagine bothering to grind(that's what it is) up to VR10 and beyond!
Ive noticed a trend in peoples opinion about this game, most sub L50 players think ESO is great and say how much fun they are having, most VR1+ players don't.

Ramanadjinn · April 2014

CaptainBl00D wrote: »

Im not even halfway though vr1 and im burnt out, its just not that fun. I cant imagine bothering to grind(that's what it is) up to VR10 and beyond!
Ive noticed a trend in peoples opinion about this game, most sub L50 players think ESO is great and say how much fun they are having, most VR1+ players don't.

Imagine being the type of player who loves to play more than one character!

You could see very early the one dimensional linear character progression and lack of pvp experience was going to run this game into the ground if not fixed.

Sadly most of the playerbase just simply doesn't care and more and more people are leaving every day from burnout. I think many of the people who leave do so quietly and just never look back. While those who are happy are the lucky few who don't mind quest grinding and reading stories and lore.. they are not really impacted by these issues.

Lots of people are saying things like "the grind is terrible" but few seem to be rallying behind the cause of adding in a secondary or even tertiary means of progressing one's character. That is at the heart of what is truly fundamentally wrong with ESO. Yet looking at the forums you would think the big issue is AOE caps. They are a problem, don't get me wrong. But if nobody is playing the game AOE is kind of a moot point.

CaptainBl00D · April 2014

I usually like to level 1 of each class ! I thought about it... but there's more similarities than differences due to the shared skill system 'armour, weps, guilds etc' so it seems pointless. even moreso when the endgame is so lacklustre. I really wanted to like the game, I still sort of do which is why im bothering to read forums etc but the harder I try to find something to like the more turned off I get. Everything was fun the first couple of times, but from then on:
Sieges are dull.
zergs are dull.
the pingpong of taking/losing scrolls or keeps etc... is. dull.
Doing quest after quest in cryodil for 1500 VP is dull.
On paper, I thought ESO PVP was what I wanted. To find out that in reality its dull is disturbing.

Jarnhand · April 2014

Ok, but what are the actual differences from level 49-VR10? Hard facts please.
And of course there should be a difference, or what else is the point of advancing?

In ESO PvP/AvAvA they have smartly done it so eve a level 10 can contribute, and a few level 10s can actually take down a level 50. This in itself is good design on Zenimax part. But of course he would and should be stomped by a toe to toe with a same skilled level 50.

End game in most MMOs are grinds, always have been always will be, or the game will not make money.

And actually as it is now, people grinding to level 50 in 2 days, and VR10 in about the same time, is kinda broken. It should take longer. Doing quests/normal content getting to level 50 takes days, even weeks.

But back to my question; please state the real gains from VR10.

sSolutionSs · April 2014

Yea its Like you HAVE to PVE then once youre max level go pvp.

limeli8 · April 2014

Vr grind isn't a grind(quests are faster than grinding) and can be done in like a week without even trying 2 hard. People are just lazy and have this sense of entitlement about getting everything in the game quick and easy and then they just get bored and leave. In all RPG or MMORPG games you have to WORK hard on making your character better, otherwise there is no point to any of it. If putting effort into making your character better (leveling, getting sky shards and so on) is 2 much for you - try some FPS. Log in and go pew pew with other 12 year olds they have pretty much same attention span you do.

awkwarrd · April 2014

Jarnhand wrote: »

Ok, but what are the actual differences from level 49-VR10? Hard facts please.
And of course there should be a difference, or what else is the point of advancing?

Only the gear and strength of the enchants you can use, which is pretty big if you compare it to the level 10 who only has that newbie buff.

Jarnhand wrote: »

In ESO PvP/AvAvA they have smartly done it so even a level 10 can contribute, and a few level 10s can actually take down a level 50. This in itself is good design on Zenimax part. But of course he would and should be stomped by a toe to toe with a same skilled level 50.

Good yes, tested properly in regards to vr10 and broken skills before launch.. no

Jarnhand wrote: »

End game in most MMOs are grinds, always have been always will be, or the game will not make money.

There is a difference..
AION for example.. it had the worst grind ever, many players were banned because they used 3rd party tools to grind, it became so apparent that it was horrible in regards to the exp cliff, when they banned 40% of their population and another 30% simply quit.

Now that game is Free2Play and struggling, and has had multiple experience boosting patches to get their players back.

That was a pretty good game back in the day, and now it's almost dead.
I went back and had a look at it, and the current grind in AION is very similar to Cyradiil, not many players in the game.

Jarnhand wrote: »

And actually as it is now, people grinding to level 50 in 2 days, and VR10 in about the same time, is kinda broken. It should take longer. Doing quests/normal content getting to level 50 takes days, even weeks.

You're Wrong.
You can't just grind mobs for 48 hours and reach max level.
People who got to level 50 in 2 days, and vr10 in 2days.. abused bugs.
These bugs were in the BETA, and BETA players knew about them and didn't report them, so when the game went live, they just abused the hell out of them.

When the game launched, certain public dungeons were giving over the top good experience.
There was also a few vet dungeons that had trash spawning bugs, where you could farm them over and over, with about 50,000 vet exp per mob, you could get vr10 over night.

The argument you try to use is wrong, because the people you talk about, did not grind at all, they just exploited all of the bugs they could find, and once they got to their max level, and got all their friends to the max level, they started reporting the bugs and spreading the information.

Jarnhand wrote: »

But back to my question; please state the real gains from VR10.

Ok.. so specifics..

Higher Stat Caps.
Higher Soft Caps.
Top level Weapon strength.
Top level Armor strength.
Top level potions.
Top Tier Enchants.
Top level items with set pieces.

There are more..
The cyradiil level 10 newbie buff does not compare to the basic upgrades a vr10 can have with just random green gear.
If you throw in the fact the vr10 is going to a spec, and set items and setting them up properly, then lowbies have no chance.

A level 10 can go into Cyradiil naked, and still be effective.
The buff overrides everything the newbie wears, it won't matter what you gear you have on.
a Vr10 can't go naked, but his scaled to level gear, is far stronger than any newbie buff.
You just gota hope that he gets caught out by a group and or has the wrong skills on his bar.

Zubba · April 2014

limeli8 wrote: »

Vr grind isn't a grind(quests are faster than grinding) and can be done in like a week without even trying 2 hard. People are just lazy and have this sense of entitlement about getting everything in the game quick and easy and then they just get bored and leave. In all RPG or MMORPG games you have to WORK hard on making your character better, otherwise there is no point to any of it. If putting effort into making your character better (leveling, getting sky shards and so on) is 2 much for you - try some FPS. Log in and go pew pew with other 12 year olds they have pretty much same attention span you do.

lmao. Wake up. 12 year old playing fps. I love fps and I am 49. FPS has absolutely nothing to do with the subject. It also takes very hard work to get good at.

BrassRazoo · April 2014

It is a bit of a grind yes, but then again many of us have been waiting for this game for a long time.
I would feel a little short changed if I got to make level in a week or two after waiting years.
What I see is that you first play through, your Alliance, gets you to level 50 or VR1 by the end, if you do everything, like achievement wise for each zone along the way, complete all dungeons (*** and private), dolmens, world bosses and get all skyshards.
Doing this also allows you to enjoy the complete experience and gives you a hell of a lot of skill point to develop and play with your character.
Then you get 10 more levels and 10 more zones. 5 levels per alternative alliance with 5 zones.
If, once again, you do that same as you did in your first play through you have one beastly character.
You have so many skill point to play with.
You can max out and morph and max again many skills to enable your character to become very usable in many situations. Not just a one trick Pony.
This all takes time but in my opinion is worth it.
If you plan on subscribing and hanging around, this is the best way to develop your character.
50 or 60 skill points (power levelling only) is nowhere near enough if you want to be a force in this game and enjoy the potential of your character.

This is just my opinion.

AngelofAwe · April 2014

The difference between VR1 and VR10 is not "utterly massive", it's absolutely minimal.
For example the difference between a VR1 and VR10 weapon is a "massive" 10 damage.

To further decrease the gap between VR1 and VR10 the cyrodiil softcaps are set to VR1. For all of us. That means that for example spell resist and armor caps are set to 1600 in cyrodiil for me as a VR10 tank bringing my spell resistance and armor down from 1900-2000 in the PvE world to 1700-1750 in cyrodiil.

Dudis · April 2014

I don't really see the issue here...
I'm just VR4 but i've never had any issues fighting VR10 people unless they were also really good (hint - most aren't).

I've got access to the same skills and mostly the same gear as they do, they only get about 10% more out of it.

I dno, maybe it's because i took the "effort" to level up multiple crafts so i can use blue 6+ trait sets and epic weapons without it really affecting my purse... I'm also actually specced for soloing.

Jarnhand · April 2014

awkwarrd wrote: »

Jarnhand wrote: »

Ok, but what are the actual differences from level 49-VR10? Hard facts please.
And of course there should be a difference, or what else is the point of advancing?

Only the gear and strength of the enchants you can use, which is pretty big if you compare it to the level 10 who only has that newbie buff.

Jarnhand wrote: »

In ESO PvP/AvAvA they have smartly done it so even a level 10 can contribute, and a few level 10s can actually take down a level 50. This in itself is good design on Zenimax part. But of course he would and should be stomped by a toe to toe with a same skilled level 50.

Good yes, tested properly in regards to vr10 and broken skills before launch.. no

Jarnhand wrote: »

End game in most MMOs are grinds, always have been always will be, or the game will not make money.

There is a difference..
AION for example.. it had the worst grind ever, many players were banned because they used 3rd party tools to grind, it became so apparent that it was horrible in regards to the exp cliff, when they banned 40% of their population and another 30% simply quit.

Now that game is Free2Play and struggling, and has had multiple experience boosting patches to get their players back.

That was a pretty good game back in the day, and now it's almost dead.
I went back and had a look at it, and the current grind in AION is very similar to Cyradiil, not many players in the game.

Jarnhand wrote: »

And actually as it is now, people grinding to level 50 in 2 days, and VR10 in about the same time, is kinda broken. It should take longer. Doing quests/normal content getting to level 50 takes days, even weeks.

You're Wrong.
You can't just grind mobs for 48 hours and reach max level.
People who got to level 50 in 2 days, and vr10 in 2days.. abused bugs.
These bugs were in the BETA, and BETA players knew about them and didn't report them, so when the game went live, they just abused the hell out of them.

When the game launched, certain public dungeons were giving over the top good experience.
There was also a few vet dungeons that had trash spawning bugs, where you could farm them over and over, with about 50,000 vet exp per mob, you could get vr10 over night.

The argument you try to use is wrong, because the people you talk about, did not grind at all, they just exploited all of the bugs they could find, and once they got to their max level, and got all their friends to the max level, they started reporting the bugs and spreading the information.

Jarnhand wrote: »

But back to my question; please state the real gains from VR10.

Ok.. so specifics..
Higher Stat Caps.

Higher Soft Caps.

Top level Weapon strength.

Top level Armor strength.

Top level potions.

Top Tier Enchants.

Top level items with set pieces.

There are more..
The cyradiil level 10 newbie buff does not compare to the basic upgrades a vr10 can have with just random green gear.
If you throw in the fact the vr10 is going to a spec, and set items and setting them up properly, then lowbies have no chance.

A level 10 can go into Cyradiil naked, and still be effective.
The buff overrides everything the newbie wears, it won't matter what you gear you have on.
a Vr10 can't go naked, but his scaled to level gear, is far stronger than any newbie buff.
You just gota hope that he gets caught out by a group and or has the wrong skills on his bar.

If people directly abused bugs to level, either normal levels or alliance points or vet exp they should have had their char reset, period! No discussion!

Gains from vet 1-10 is still a bit vague, but ok.

A level 10 should never have a real chance vs a level 50 on same ground, and not even remotely so vs a vet 10. If they have a chance there is no point in leveling in this game, and its a lost cause.

A level 50 VR1 should of course have a chance vs a VR10, clearly. The vet 10 should of course have the advantage, but still the VR1 should have a good chance.

CaptainBl00D · April 2014

1v1 fights can be fun, and I think the biggest factors are what abilities you have on your bar and also your skill at reacting to the situation and careful use of cc break, rather than your VR level. Which is all good. But 1v1 fights are quite rare and they serve no purpose either(at least in DAoC a solo kill netted a decent slice of RP's)

Dudis · April 2014

Uh, friend of mine that picked the game up last week grinded 1-50 and collected all skyshards/lorebooks in one weekend (friday afternoon-sunday night), no bugs or exploits abused.

It took him about half an hour per level - every level.

CaptainBl00D · April 2014

well he just rushed through the best bit of the game imo

joshralph21rwb17_ESO1 · April 2014

Dudis wrote: »

Uh, friend of mine that picked the game up last week grinded 1-50 and collected all skyshards/lorebooks in one weekend (friday afternoon-sunday night), no bugs or exploits abused.

It took him about half an hour per level - every level.

he must be very very good then, or hes trolling you and did exploit....or he literally did not sleep once that weekend, and read every leveling guide online beforehand. i pulled 17 or so hours back in early access and went about 1-16 lol, and that was skipping the quest dialogue as i did them in beta.

JexTex · April 2014

The veteran rank system is going to hurt them in the long run...how they decided to use this system is beyong me...i alredy have people dropping from the guild due to the veteran system if thats what u wanna call having to quests through other zones....lol best yall could come up with...not good...

Dudis · April 2014

joshralph21rwb17_ESO1 wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

Uh, friend of mine that picked the game up last week grinded 1-50 and collected all skyshards/lorebooks in one weekend (friday afternoon-sunday night), no bugs or exploits abused.

It took him about half an hour per level - every level.

he must be very very good then, or hes trolling you and did exploit....or he literally did not sleep once that weekend, and read every leveling guide online beforehand. i pulled 17 or so hours back in early access and went about 1-16 lol, and that was skipping the quest dialogue as i did them in beta.

The way to level 1-50 quickly in this game, sadly, is to not do any quests at all.

Ramanadjinn · April 2014

joshralph21rwb17_ESO1 wrote: »

Dudis wrote: »

Uh, friend of mine that picked the game up last week grinded 1-50 and collected all skyshards/lorebooks in one weekend (friday afternoon-sunday night), no bugs or exploits abused.

It took him about half an hour per level - every level.

he must be very very good then, or hes trolling you and did exploit....or he literally did not sleep once that weekend, and read every leveling guide online beforehand. i pulled 17 or so hours back in early access and went about 1-16 lol, and that was skipping the quest dialogue as i did them in beta.

I did 20-50 in 3 nights and I didn't marathon it at all. It could have been easily 2 nights if I had gone all day.

It depends on the population and your class/build. I did most of my stuff in the late night hours so there wasn't a lot of competition. In Alikr for example I could pull packs of 9+ zombies at a time and instakill them with burning talons + ultimate. That would clean the entire town in 5-6 pulls with very few interruptions from other people. I got 28-41 (I think) in pretty much one sitting in that one zone.

If you know where to go and how to do it getting 20-50 is easily doable in 2 days. The hard part then is 1-20. But if someone knows a great way to grind that out in one night that leaves you with 3 days total 1-50.

Ramanadjinn · April 2014

double post sorry

skarvika · April 2014

How are people getting to VR10 so quickly you ask? Simple.
Yknow that site we all hate, Goldah? The one that spams our inbox daily with unintelligible gibberish? Well, they offer veteran leveling. It's pricey, but it's fast and there's no doubt in my mind people like you, who have been just as frustrated about leveling have, unlike you, gone the easy route and paid for it.
There are of course going to be people who did get there legitimately, but there's probably also a good chunk of people who paid someone else to power level them.

Jarnhand · April 2014

Dudis wrote: »

Uh, friend of mine that picked the game up last week grinded 1-50 and collected all skyshards/lorebooks in one weekend (friday afternoon-sunday night), no bugs or exploits abused.

It took him about half an hour per level - every level.

Sorry, but do not believe this is real. The first ones to AE farm grind to level 50 did so in about 48 hours game time, if I do not remember wrong. And they knew how to do it and where to do it based on beta play. And I am pretty sure they did not get all shards or books, hardly any at all I guess, since it was just a race to level 50.

So I am pretty sure there are some things your friend are not telling you, or simply lying.

Gisgo · April 2014

I have balls of steel and can take two weeks of nerding like a teenager but i feel for you guys.
Hope they give you the opportunity to level up in pvp so we can meet there.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO · April 2014

The reward system for both VR and AR is a joke, there needs to somethings for the work beside damn armor., that counts for something!

TheBull · April 2014

OP, I hate questing and making people do other factions is dumb and needs to change.

As far as VR ranks, there are stat and dmg caps. These caps are lower than they are in PvE.

There are a couple addons that show you the caps. This may make you feel a bit better.

skarvika · April 2014

TheBull wrote: »

OP, I hate questing and making people do other factions is dumb and needs to change.

It's funny because now I've got no reason to play an alt unless I want to redo all these quests!

3nn10 · April 2014

You are leveling wrong if you think vet leveling is hard/impossible. Do the main story line quests to progress through Vet areas (Cadwell's), do delves, public dungeons, zone bosses, and group dungeons.