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Does AD abuse low pop point boost on PC like they do on Console?
IronWooshu
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Honest question? Because on console AD especially will take a big raid group into delves before evaluation to get the low pop points during primetime.
It's disgusting but they are just abusing the mechanic that ZOS clearly missed.
It's disgusting but they are just abusing the mechanic that ZOS clearly missed.
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axi✭✭✭✭✭Alliance points and alliance score points.are not the same.Edited by axi on February 6, 2022 4:25AM0 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Every alliance thinks the other alliances are abusing the low population bonus, so I guess that means the answer is "Yes," at least if you aren't in the AD alliance?I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!8 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »Learn how the low pop bonus works.
I explained how it works, AD players go into delve in mass.
Someone posted a screenshot and made another post about it after mine.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »Learn how the low pop bonus works.
I explained how it works, AD players go into delve in mass.
Someone posted a screenshot and made another post about it after mine.
This is not how low population works. It has nothing to do with the delves. The delves are part of Cyrodiil. They go into it to get the buff to gain more personal AP which does not affect the alliance scoring.
Edited by Amottica on February 6, 2022 5:04AM6 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »
Which is not affected by delve bonus. Delve bosses only give 20% bonus to alliance points for 1 hour.3 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’ve heard others say that going into the delves removes those players form the count in Cyrodiil so they effectively have a lower population in Cyrodiil, at least until they come out of the delve.
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Necromancer
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA0 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭katanagirl1 wrote: »I’ve heard others say that going into the delves removes those players form the count in Cyrodiil so they effectively have a lower population in Cyrodiil, at least until they come out of the delve.
They do this is why AD abuses low pop, they are pop locked right now and yet I have people telling me otherwise in this thread like I don't know how they are doing it.1 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »Learn how the low pop bonus works.
@biminirwb17_ESO
Im still waiting for you and the 4 other people who agreed with you to tell me how low pop really works? You disagree going into a delve doesn't count towards Cyrodiil population and people don't abuse that or own up that you dont understand and didn't know about the exploit before coming in thinking you know better.0 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭IronWooshu wrote: »biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »Learn how the low pop bonus works.
I explained how it works, AD players go into delve in mass.
Someone posted a screenshot and made another post about it after mine.
This is not how low population works. It has nothing to do with the delves. The delves are part of Cyrodiil. They go into it to get the buff to gain more personal AP which does not affect the alliance scoring.
You are completely lost in what the exploit is, I know how AP bonus gains work by killing the boss in Cyrodiil. No one is talking about personal AP gains, this is talking about entire raid groups enmass going into delves before score eval and getting low pop bonus because when in delve it doesn't count as Cyro population.
Get it?Edited by IronWooshu on February 6, 2022 2:59PM1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, and the theory is they use cheese monger's hollow to pull it off. The PvP guilds have every member go in there shortly before the tick to proc the low pop bonus despite being pop locked. At least that's what I've heard and it could be absolute baloney for all I know. All I do know is sometimes AD will get the low pop bonus while their population is capped out of the blue at suspicious times. Doesn't always help them though.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
vms11934✭✭✭If 3 bars = 100 players (does anyone really know?), then it must take anywhere from 50-80 to disappear into a delve. Hard to imagine they could not only coordinate enough people to pull this off, but that what they are doing would not then become common knowledge because of so many people involved. Whether or not they are using a delve, something is up, because they should not have 3 bars and low population.
AD on PS NA frequently has low pop and 2 or three bars. DC and EP should coordinate to make sure AD is gated at all times to counteract their cheating.
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chaz✭✭✭✭I just fear while farming in a delve or getting the skyshard I'm gonna one day run into 2, 20 man (or girl) (Ballgroups) mobs while they circumvent the pop lock during these key moments, then I'll just be another youtube tiktok where *It was at that moment where he realized, that he had messed up"!
EDIT:
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biminirwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The low pop bonus is calculated on the population over hours not just at the specific pop at evaluation. This is why a pop locked faction can have low pop bonus. Their pop was low hours earlier.2 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »Learn how the low pop bonus works.
I explained how it works, AD players go into delve in mass.
Someone posted a screenshot and made another post about it after mine.
This is not how low population works. It has nothing to do with the delves. The delves are part of Cyrodiil. They go into it to get the buff to gain more personal AP which does not affect the alliance scoring.
Actually the delves exist outside of Cyrodiil. You literally have to queue back in when exiting a delve in Cyro, you just don't get to see the queue. Spoken by someone who was stupid and has gotten himself trapped in Cyro delves many times while trying to get a AP buff during primetime. Which BTW is an entire issue of it's own, I have been trapped for up to 45 minutes on occassion, with literally no way to get out. Even /stuck only takes you to the delves exit and not outside the delve.Edited by Kwoung on February 6, 2022 9:11PM6 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »The low pop bonus is calculated on the population over hours not just at the specific pop at evaluation. This is why a pop locked faction can have low pop bonus. Their pop was low hours earlier.
Even if it isn't evaluated at the specific scoring ticks, it is based upon a population evaluation at some points in time. And if how it is calculated is figured out, as apparently some folks have, it can be manipulated. I personally don't know and really don't care much how it is calculated, but it could be as simple as having population dips X times an hour, which wouldn't be that hard to achieve with a guild or large group of friends now that the pop cap is so low in general and a small group has a much larger impact.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »Learn how the low pop bonus works.
@biminirwb17_ESO
Im still waiting for you and the 4 other people who agreed with you to tell me how low pop really works? You disagree going into a delve doesn't count towards Cyrodiil population and people don't abuse that or own up that you dont understand and didn't know about the exploit before coming in thinking you know better.
Underdog Bonuses
At certain times, one of the alliances may qualify for an "underdog bonus" during a particular campaign. These are applied when an alliance has a consistently low population of players entering that campaign, or if an alliance has a significantly lower score than the others. Underdog bonuses are re-evaluated every 30 minutes, and grant a 100% increase to Alliance Point gain for the duration. The population and scoring bonus takes all the samples its collected over a period of time, and then on each evaluation period, measures the current score against the average of the prior samples, then applies bonuses as needed. An alliance that is currently benefiting from an underdog bonus will display one of the following icons on the scoreboard:
Population Underdog — Scoring bonus ×4, AP bonus 100%
Score Underdog — Scoring bonus ×3, AP bonus 100%
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Campaigns
Edited by TequilaFire on February 6, 2022 9:24PM0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »IronWooshu wrote: »biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »Learn how the low pop bonus works.
@biminirwb17_ESO
Im still waiting for you and the 4 other people who agreed with you to tell me how low pop really works? You disagree going into a delve doesn't count towards Cyrodiil population and people don't abuse that or own up that you dont understand and didn't know about the exploit before coming in thinking you know better.
Underdog Bonuses
At certain times, one of the alliances may qualify for an "underdog bonus" during a particular campaign. These are applied when an alliance has a consistently low population of players entering that campaign, or if an alliance has a significantly lower score than the others. Underdog bonuses are re-evaluated every 30 minutes, and grant a 100% increase to Alliance Point gain for the duration. The population and scoring bonus takes all the samples its collected over a period of time, and then on each evaluation period, measures the current score against the average of the prior samples, then applies bonuses as needed. An alliance that is currently benefiting from an underdog bonus will display one of the following icons on the scoreboard:
Population Underdog — Scoring bonus ×4, AP bonus 100%
Score Underdog — Scoring bonus ×3, AP bonus 100%
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Campaigns
So basically, if you consistently lower your population (or make the game think your population is lower) every 30 minutes, you get a bonus and if done right, you can keep it indefinitely? Just curious, but wouldn't having 20 people do a reloadui at the same time also possibly trigger this, as you are in a semi in but not in game state while reloading? I only ask because unlike PVE zones... in Cyro a reloadui can take minutes to complete.Edited by Kwoung on February 6, 2022 9:32PM0 -
vms11934✭✭✭
Actually the delves exist outside of Cyrodiil. You literally have to queue back in when exiting a delve in Cyro, you just don't get to see the queue. Spoken by someone who was stupid and has gotten himself trapped in Cyro delves many times while trying to get a AP buff during primetime. Which BTW is an entire issue of it's own, I have been trapped for up to 45 minutes on occassion, with literally no way to get out. Even /stuck only takes you to the delves exit and not outside the delve.
Not my experience. I have been in a delve for probably over an hour in prime time when there are three bars and a long queue and I have never had an issue getting right back into Cyro.
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blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually the delves exist outside of Cyrodiil. You literally have to queue back in when exiting a delve in Cyro, you just don't get to see the queue. Spoken by someone who was stupid and has gotten himself trapped in Cyro delves many times while trying to get a AP buff during primetime. Which BTW is an entire issue of it's own, I have been trapped for up to 45 minutes on occassion, with literally no way to get out. Even /stuck only takes you to the delves exit and not outside the delve.
Not my experience. I have been in a delve for probably over an hour in prime time when there are three bars and a long queue and I have never had an issue getting right back into Cyro.
You're lucky. I've had the same experience as Kwoung on more than one occasion. That's why I no longer bother to go for that AP bonus (not like it would make a difference anyways :P)PCNA
PCEU4 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually the delves exist outside of Cyrodiil. You literally have to queue back in when exiting a delve in Cyro, you just don't get to see the queue. Spoken by someone who was stupid and has gotten himself trapped in Cyro delves many times while trying to get a AP buff during primetime. Which BTW is an entire issue of it's own, I have been trapped for up to 45 minutes on occassion, with literally no way to get out. Even /stuck only takes you to the delves exit and not outside the delve.
Not my experience. I have been in a delve for probably over an hour in prime time when there are three bars and a long queue and I have never had an issue getting right back into Cyro.
Yes, you are very lucky. We actually went in as a group one time and half our group was stuck for 15+ minutes, one member ended up logging out after 30 minutes in near tears because of her being stuck. It definitely happens.2 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »The low pop bonus is calculated on the population over hours not just at the specific pop at evaluation. This is why a pop locked faction can have low pop bonus. Their pop was low hours earlier.
AD was faction locked full for 8 hours as were all the alliances and they were still getting it. Not sure how that holds up.Edited by IronWooshu on February 7, 2022 3:59AM0 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually the delves exist outside of Cyrodiil. You literally have to queue back in when exiting a delve in Cyro, you just don't get to see the queue. Spoken by someone who was stupid and has gotten himself trapped in Cyro delves many times while trying to get a AP buff during primetime. Which BTW is an entire issue of it's own, I have been trapped for up to 45 minutes on occassion, with literally no way to get out. Even /stuck only takes you to the delves exit and not outside the delve.
Not my experience. I have been in a delve for probably over an hour in prime time when there are three bars and a long queue and I have never had an issue getting right back into Cyro.
I got stuck in cheese mongers hollow for a good hour, kept saying instance was full when trying to get back in and all I went in there for was to remove the perm status effects on me.1 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually the delves exist outside of Cyrodiil. You literally have to queue back in when exiting a delve in Cyro, you just don't get to see the queue. Spoken by someone who was stupid and has gotten himself trapped in Cyro delves many times while trying to get a AP buff during primetime. Which BTW is an entire issue of it's own, I have been trapped for up to 45 minutes on occassion, with literally no way to get out. Even /stuck only takes you to the delves exit and not outside the delve.
Not my experience. I have been in a delve for probably over an hour in prime time when there are three bars and a long queue and I have never had an issue getting right back into Cyro.
You're lucky. I've had the same experience as Kwoung on more than one occasion. That's why I no longer bother to go for that AP bonus (not like it would make a difference anyways :P)
I've gotten stuck in a delve, too, although I went in to do a daily quest. It's actually pretty easy to get out-- just queue for one of the campaigns in Imperial City. Then you can queue to get back into your Cyrodiil campaign. You might not be able to get in for a while, but at least you can exit Imperial City to get back into whatever zone you were in before you'd queued into Cyrodiil.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!0 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »
Actually the delves exist outside of Cyrodiil. You literally have to queue back in when exiting a delve in Cyro, you just don't get to see the queue. Spoken by someone who was stupid and has gotten himself trapped in Cyro delves many times while trying to get a AP buff during primetime. Which BTW is an entire issue of it's own, I have been trapped for up to 45 minutes on occassion, with literally no way to get out. Even /stuck only takes you to the delves exit and not outside the delve.
Not my experience. I have been in a delve for probably over an hour in prime time when there are three bars and a long queue and I have never had an issue getting right back into Cyro.
I got stuck in cheese mongers hollow for a good hour, kept saying instance was full when trying to get back in and all I went in there for was to remove the perm status effects on me.
Yes, I had that happen last MYM and made a video to show how many times it took to get back to Cyro. It wasn’t an hour but maybe 15 mins or so.
I sure hope they fix this before the next PvP event, but sadly I don’t think it’s been acknowledged. Going into Cheesemonger or delves should not allow others to queue into Cyrodiil and trap you there.
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Necromancer
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA0 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »Honest question? Because on console AD especially will take a big raid group into delves before evaluation to get the low pop points during primetime.
It's disgusting but they are just abusing the mechanic that ZOS clearly missed.
Abuse? AD is way behind every time I check, even though most of my characters are AD.PC
PS4/PS52
https://youtu.be/2oRlBmwKzy4