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Lore Based magic Weapons

Zuboko
Zuboko
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Is there a lore based reason behind only having staves available for for magic users weapon selections?
Edited by Zuboko on May 18, 2021 6:33PM
  • Vevvev
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    No, it's a gameplay one. In TES lore there are conjured/enchanted weapons, magical weapons like Dawnbreaker, and touch based spells for melee combat. In fact ESO is the first game where the destruction staves are actually useful instead of an offhand spell that uses enchantment charges instead of your magicka pool.
    Edited by Vevvev on May 18, 2021 6:38PM
    PC NA
    Ceyanna Ashton - Breton MagDK
  • Zuboko
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    No, it's a gameplay one. In TES lore there are conjured/enchanted weapons, magical weapons like Dawnbreaker, and touch based spells for melee combat. In fact ESO is the first game where the destruction staves are actually useful instead of an offhand spell that uses enchantment charges instead of your magicka pool.

    What about wands and such, weapons that would be used to channel spells like staves?
    Edited by Zuboko on May 19, 2021 12:08AM
  • VaranisArano
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    Zuboko wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    No, it's a gameplay one. In TES lore there are conjured/enchanted weapons, magical weapons like Dawnbreaker, and touch based spells for melee combat. In fact ESO is the first game where the destruction staves are actually useful instead of an offhand spell that uses enchantment charges instead of your magicka pool.

    What about wands and such, weapons that would be used to channel spells like staves?

    Wands were useless items in Daggerfall and have not reappeared in the later games.

    Other games had Scrolls, for one use consumables.

    Morrowind had the usual "Cast on Strike" and "Constant Effect" enchantments that we are used to, but also had "Cast on Use" which effectively meant that holding or wearing that item let you cast that spell yourself until the item's charge runs low. Rather than being limited to staves, you can have various weapons enchanted in this manner. For example, Conoon Chodala's axe, a glass war are, grants you the ability to Cast a Fortify Attack spell on yourself.
  • Supreme_Atromancer
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    The Elder Scrolls franchise have used traditional fantasy conventions, so there's no melee-based magicka weapons per se. I think that if you wanted to satisfy demand for this style of play in a TES milieu, you'd be looking at something like a Battlemage or Spellsword, both of which would require you to be within melee range to use melee weapons/armour, and the magic simply supplements this.

    These are good targets for a class, but also, they could make a new guild-based skill line instead, or as was datamined early on and embraced pretty strongly by the community, you could have a "rune" that occupies a weapon slot - allowing you to equip 1h and spell, or if you want the classic mage feel, dual runes for spell charges in each hand.
  • Zuboko
    Zuboko
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    I guess, what I am asking is specifically about weapons that help to recharge your magica. In ESO the only option I know about is a staff. Is there a reason magic users only have a staff as an option? If most weapons in ESO are considered magical, why do magic users only benefit from staves?
    It sounds like it is not a lore based reason but a design based reason.
    I would still like to see a wider verity of weapons that charge your magica up.
  • the1andonlyskwex
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    Zuboko wrote: »
    I guess, what I am asking is specifically about weapons that help to recharge your magica. In ESO the only option I know about is a staff. Is there a reason magic users only have a staff as an option? If most weapons in ESO are considered magical, why do magic users only benefit from staves?
    It sounds like it is not a lore based reason but a design based reason.
    I would still like to see a wider verity of weapons that charge your magica up.

    Lore-wise, heavy attacking shouldn't restore any kind of resource.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Zuboko wrote: »
    I guess, what I am asking is specifically about weapons that help to recharge your magica. In ESO the only option I know about is a staff. Is there a reason magic users only have a staff as an option? If most weapons in ESO are considered magical, why do magic users only benefit from staves?
    It sounds like it is not a lore based reason but a design based reason.
    I would still like to see a wider verity of weapons that charge your magica up.

    Restoring your resources via any sort of attacking is a gameplay decision for ESO. In past games, you needed to wait for your magicka to refill (regen), drink a potion, or you needed to sleep in a bed.

    In any case, I'll all for more options for magicka and stamina users to wield in ESO...but I'm not sure where you got the idea that most weapons in ESO are considered magical. Most weapon skill lines were always designed to use stamina, in part because most of the original class skills were designed to use magicka. ZOS really didn't foresee the magicka/stamina split at the beginning of the game and expected everyone to use both, more like a hybrid build. The "heavy attack to regain resources" gameplay choice happened with the Morrowind Chapter, where ZOS really embraced the magicka/stamina split.
  • Supreme_Atromancer
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    Zuboko wrote: »
    I guess, what I am asking is specifically about weapons that help to recharge your magica. In ESO the only option I know about is a staff. Is there a reason magic users only have a staff as an option? If most weapons in ESO are considered magical, why do magic users only benefit from staves?
    It sounds like it is not a lore based reason but a design based reason.
    I would still like to see a wider verity of weapons that charge your magica up.

    Restoring your resources via any sort of attacking is a gameplay decision for ESO. In past games, you needed to wait for your magicka to refill (regen), drink a potion, or you needed to sleep in a bed.

    In any case, I'll all for more options for magicka and stamina users to wield in ESO...but I'm not sure where you got the idea that most weapons in ESO are considered magical. Most weapon skill lines were always designed to use stamina, in part because most of the original class skills were designed to use magicka. ZOS really didn't foresee the magicka/stamina split at the beginning of the game and expected everyone to use both, more like a hybrid build. The "heavy attack to regain resources" gameplay choice happened with the Morrowind Chapter, where ZOS really embraced the magicka/stamina split.

    Agree with your guesses here about how zos thought the game would be played. They just never made the trade-offs and costs of all-in, super-specialised significant enough that it couldn't be countered by "git gud".

    But heavy attacks have always restored resources, right? I think at Morrowind they just redefined it a bit?
  • Zuboko
    Zuboko
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    Zuboko wrote: »
    I guess, what I am asking is specifically about weapons that help to recharge your magica. In ESO the only option I know about is a staff. Is there a reason magic users only have a staff as an option? If most weapons in ESO are considered magical, why do magic users only benefit from staves?
    It sounds like it is not a lore based reason but a design based reason.
    I would still like to see a wider verity of weapons that charge your magica up.

    Restoring your resources via any sort of attacking is a gameplay decision for ESO. In past games, you needed to wait for your magicka to refill (regen), drink a potion, or you needed to sleep in a bed.

    In any case, I'll all for more options for magicka and stamina users to wield in ESO...but I'm not sure where you got the idea that most weapons in ESO are considered magical. Most weapon skill lines were always designed to use stamina, in part because most of the original class skills were designed to use magicka. ZOS really didn't foresee the magicka/stamina split at the beginning of the game and expected everyone to use both, more like a hybrid build. The "heavy attack to regain resources" gameplay choice happened with the Morrowind Chapter, where ZOS really embraced the magicka/stamina split.

    Agree with your guesses here about how zos thought the game would be played. They just never made the trade-offs and costs of all-in, super-specialised significant enough that it couldn't be countered by "git gud".

    But heavy attacks have always restored resources, right? I think at Morrowind they just redefined it a bit?

    I played Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. I poured hundreds of hours into each. To be honest, I play ESO in much the same way I played in all three of the prior Elder Scrolls games. One difference between ESO and the three Elder Scrolls games that I played is that they are not meant to be fast paced. If I remember correctly, for Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, each of them wanted you to wait to recharge your energy pools. It worked well for single player games, but sucks for a game where people are likely going to be waiting on you. I play ESO alone, and even though I want to get more into the group dungeons, it will be a bit before I do, because even though I have poured nearly a thousand hours into ESO, I still suck.

    As I think about all the sides presented in answer to my question, I become more convinced that it is more a design question and maybe a little bit of lore as well ... or perhaps a simple problem with magic users in fantasy settings in general. While Dungeons and Dragons has a litany of things a mage could use to enhance or focus their spells, the Elder Scrolls world has few if any, depending on the game you play. But then again, there does always seem to be a struggle when trying to provide a balance between spell casters, melee combatants, and ranged combatants.
  • Fizzyapple
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    You don't suck find me in-game and I'll run dungeons with you.

    Fizzyapple

    Bosmer extraordinaire.
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