A Knights Promotion 1h & shield skill retrain hopes

SjornParadox52 · January 2022

With the reveal show arriving soon, many have hopes for what area the chapter will take place in but what about some reworks for some other stuff, like Retooling ransack a morph for puncture into something else? If this was confirmed would you use it for your build and why? let me know!

Militant Strike - Ransack rework

No longer taunts, deals more damage and behaves differently depending on what weapon is equipped in the main hand.

Sword: deals damage up to 3 times to all enemies in front of you, each subsequent hit deals 10% more damage

Mace: Deals damage up to 2 times against 1 target with the final hit inflicting minor breach and stunning for a short time

Axe: Deals damage to all enemies in front of you with one hit, every second cast will apply bleeding damage

Dagger: Deals small damage but deals 150% more damage against targets below 30% health and ignores protection

Iron_Warrior · January 2022

I support any kind of change to make sword and shield viable for dps. Your idea is good but i don't think only one skill is enough.

There are so many morphs that are useless in s/b skill line and they could do some cool stuff with them. Ransack, deep slash, both morphs of defensive posture, one of the shield charge morphs, powerslam. These skills can all get changed to also be viable on dps. A man can only dream...

SjornParadox52 · January 2022

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

I support any kind of change to make sword and shield viable for dps. Your idea is good but i don't think only one skill is enough.

There are so many morphs that are useless in s/b skill line and they could do some cool stuff with them. Ransack, deep slash, both morphs of defensive posture, one of the shield charge morphs, powerslam. This skills can all get changed to also be viable on dps. A man can only dream...

Oh how true you are.

SjornParadox52 · January 2022

as for the other abilities, i'll see what i can think of

SjornParadox52 · January 2022

Here we go, couldn't think of anything else

Aegis Strike - Power Slam rework

Every second cast will deal 25% more damage and effects up to 3 targets in front of you, the second cast will also stun all enemies affected for a short time.

Sundering Blow - Deep slash rework

Increases damage dealt, affects all enemies around the main target and gains a new effect depending on what weapon is equipped in the main hand.

Sword: Snares Enemies hit

Axe: Applies bleeding damage overtime

Mace: Briefly Stuns targets hit for a short time

Dagger: Deals 15% bonus damage against stunned targets and sets enemies off-balance

tomofhyrule · January 2022

I love my sword and board, but I play tank so it works. I got used to the total lack of DPS, but it'd be nice if I didn't have to use a completely different weapon to do arena DPS checks though. Wish I would stop feeling forced to play ice staff for tanking though, my character's a fighter not a mage.

However, there are a few skills I'd love to have. Namely a weapon- and class- neutral ranged interrupt. Can Inner Rage get 'interrupts enemies who are casting' as its morph instead of 'the synergy will always occur'?

In terms of SnB, there's one skill I'd love - a shield toss. Change one of the Shield Bash morphs to a ranged attack (heck, add the interrupt there), but then disallow any other shield bash/charge moves until it bounces back. That' be incredible.

Iron_Warrior · January 2022

SjornParadox52 wrote: »

Here we go, couldn't think of anything else

Aegis Strike - Power Slam rework

Every second cast will deal 25% more damage and effects up to 3 targets in front of you, the second cast will also stun all enemies affected for a short time.

Sundering Blow - Deep slash rework

Increases damage dealt, affects all enemies around the main target and gains a new effect depending on what weapon is equipped in the main hand.

Sword: Snares Enemies hit

Axe: Applies bleeding damage overtime

Mace: Stuns targets hit for a short time

Dagger: Deals 15% bonus damage against stunned targets and sets enemies off-balance

You are a true knight sir, well done. Zos should take notes

Mojmir · January 2022

Id love to see some kind of smite

Naftal · January 2022

If the weapon is supposed to used by DDs, don't give any stuns to those dps morphs. Especially not aoe stuns.

SjornParadox52 · January 2022

I ended up changing the mace bonus abit to make it balanced and made a retrain for the morph of shield charge, "Invasion"

Titanic Charge - Invasion Rework

Deals damage to enemies in a short range conal area infront of you after landing the charge but the stun only lasts for 1 second. In a pvp area this attack will Stun up 50% longer based on the distance traveled.

drsalvation · January 2022

I've been asking for so long for a sword and shield DPS rework, the potential of power bash is really wasted (I think the damage should be scaled based on health, tanks don't really have any way to deal damage, and blocking consumes stamina, at the very least it should be a hard-hitting skill)

But I gave up the role of tank in order to enjoy the rest of the game, but this isn't about tanking lol.
The only DPS skill in sword and shield isn't really up to par with 2h dizzying swing (or whatever they're called, they do more damage and cost slightly less), and also, a dps skill where your main attack is bashing with the shield? It's kinda funny when you think of it, but that's about it.

I'd take any rework, maybe from heroic slash to be the main spammable dps skill as long as it's actually viable.
I tried building around it, with knight errant and stuff, but no matter how much I tried, I could never make sword and shield a viable skill set to deal damage (I still rely on jabs + power of light), I only use shielded assault for closing gaps and stunning enemies, no other skill in that skilline has come to any use (considering that defensive stance only reflects spell projectiles, I don't see it working on bow + arrow, and most magic users cast channeled skills anyway so it doesn't do anything useful except against NPCs).
The ultimate is also pretty meh... either free skill cost from sword and shield while blocking, or reflect all projectiles (aka defensive posture that doesn't expire on one skill).

I think the ult morph could be something that absorbs all damage while active, and when it expires, it explodes, dealing damage based on how much it absorbed.

Power bash should be more of a tank's way of dealing damage

but honestly, I'll take any type of rework that would make using sword and shield as the main source of damage, and not a decorative weapon set you equip while you deal damage using your class skills.

SjornParadox52 · January 2022

drsalvation wrote: »

I've been asking for so long for a sword and shield DPS rework, the potential of power bash is really wasted (I think the damage should be scaled based on health, tanks don't really have any way to deal damage, and blocking consumes stamina, at the very least it should be a hard-hitting skill)

But I gave up the role of tank in order to enjoy the rest of the game, but this isn't about tanking lol.
The only DPS skill in sword and shield isn't really up to par with 2h dizzying swing (or whatever they're called, they do more damage and cost slightly less), and also, a dps skill where your main attack is bashing with the shield? It's kinda funny when you think of it, but that's about it.

Yeah that is pretty funny and not very effective for combat

Snamyap · January 2022

SjornParadox52 wrote: »

Sword: Snares Enemies hit

Axe: Applies bleeding damage overtime

Mace: Briefly Stuns targets hit for a short time

Dagger: Deals 15% bonus damage against stunned targets and sets enemies off-balance

A dps increase does indeed first has to come from the passives, that way your other skills also benefit from it.

rexagamemnon · January 2022

Perhaps a mythic shield that changes the damage and block stats to the equivalent of dual wield or two handed and then applies the respective passives to accompany it. And and add a third morphs for 1h and skill line to accompany the desire for 1 hand and shield damage. This way you get the best of both worlds, beimg viable at damage while looking totally bada$$!
@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert any chance in the future that we may get something for 1h&shield that makes damage somewhat viable? And/or Magika weapon morphs?

drsalvation · January 2022

Snamyap wrote: »

SjornParadox52 wrote: »

Sword: Snares Enemies hit

Axe: Applies bleeding damage overtime

Mace: Briefly Stuns targets hit for a short time

Dagger: Deals 15% bonus damage against stunned targets and sets enemies off-balance

A dps increase does indeed first has to come from the passives, that way your other skills also benefit from it.

2H sword has a rally skill that you activate and costs stamina and lasts for 20 seconds, and that skill alone increases your damage from all sources. dual wield has a hidden dagger skill which also increases your damage for 20 seconds. Vampire has another skill that costs health and also increases your damage, I haven't tried staffs or bow yet, I just don't see any reason why sword and shield couldn't do the same other than "iT'S mEaNt aS a dEfEnSIvE wEApOn sEt"

Jusey1 · January 2022

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

Ransack, deep slash

Actually, I need to stop using Ransack. (I'm only using it on my main because I would be over-penetrating with the other morph, but I can change that pretty easily by replacing one of my other penetration sources). Deep Slash on the other hand I think just needs Minor Maim replace with a bleed. If I remember correctly, I use Deep Slash cause it turns that attack into an AOE (it's not like this in base or in the other morph but I'll have to check at a respec shrine).

If Deep Slash can have a bleed, then it would fill the same role as Cleave as both abilities do similar damage numbers at base, Deep Slash just doesn't have the bleed and shield. It doesn't need the shield though since it applies a slow instead.

Vylaera · January 2022

The problem is the passives, not the abilities. Low Slash is good for a spammable if it were brought up to spammable tier damage. But the only damage bonus you get from passives is a 5% weapon and spell damage modifier from Sword and Board. This sucks compared to DW's Twin Blade and Blunt and 2H's Heavy Weapons passives. 1H&S lacks a passive like this. All it would need is a passive like this and Low Slash be brought up to spammable tier damage and the weapon skill would be DPS viable overnight. As for AOEs, two of the skills in this line are redundant, those being Shield Charge and Power Bash. Shield Charge should get the Stampede treatment where it leaves an AOE on the ground after you charge with it.

So to put it simply,
- Increase Low Slash Damage to standard spammable damage
- Change one of the morphs of Shield Charge to leave an AOE on the ground
- Change the Sword and Board passive to "Grants a bonus based on the type of weapon equipped: Swords increase your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 284. Axes increase your Critical Damage done by 12%. Maces increase your Armor Penetration by 3300. Increases the amount of damage you can block by 20% when a Shield is equipped."

And that's how you make 1H&S DPS viable. No need to make it overcomplicated.

Ksariyu · January 2022

They need to add some real mechanics to make the skill line shine. Personally, I really think they need to reevaluate how they design roles here in 2020s - Tanks and healers being no-damage roles is boring and causes a lot of frustration in PuG groups.
Adding a real counter-attack mechanic with 1h/Shield would be a start, as well as just buffing the overall damage of the skill line. That said:

BroughBreaux wrote: »

The problem is the passives, not the abilities. Low Slash is good for a spammable if it were brought up to spammable tier damage. But the only damage bonus you get from passives is a 5% weapon and spell damage modifier from Sword and Board. This sucks compared to DW's Twin Blade and Blunt and 2H's Heavy Weapons passives. 1H&S lacks a passive like this. All it would need is a passive like this and Low Slash be brought up to spammable tier damage and the weapon skill would be DPS viable overnight. As for AOEs, two of the skills in this line are redundant, those being Shield Charge and Power Bash. Shield Charge should get the Stampede treatment where it leaves an AOE on the ground after you charge with it.

So to put it simply,
- Increase Low Slash Damage to standard spammable damage
- Change one of the morphs of Shield Charge to leave an AOE on the ground
- Change the Sword and Board passive to "Grants a bonus based on the type of weapon equipped: Swords increase your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 284. Axes increase your Critical Damage done by 12%. Maces increase your Armor Penetration by 3300. Increases the amount of damage you can block by 20% when a Shield is equipped."

And that's how you make 1H&S DPS viable. No need to make it overcomplicated.

Don't do this. This is the boring kind of hybridization, the one that makes every class and skill line already feel identical. Don't double down on that, add some real unique mechanics instead.

Merlin13KAGL · January 2022

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I love my sword and board, but I play tank so it works. I got used to the total lack of DPS, but it'd be nice if I didn't have to use a completely different weapon to do arena DPS checks though. Wish I would stop feeling forced to play ice staff for tanking though, my character's a fighter not a mage.

However, there are a few skills I'd love to have. Namely a weapon- and class- neutral ranged interrupt. Can Inner Rage get 'interrupts enemies who are casting' as its morph instead of 'the synergy will always occur'?

In terms of SnB, there's one skill I'd love - a shield toss. Change one of the Shield Bash morphs to a ranged attack (heck, add the interrupt there), but then disallow any other shield bash/charge moves until it bounces back. That' be incredible.

@tomofhyrule I believe you'd have to be Ansei of the highest rank for such a skill

Iron_Warrior · January 2022

Jusey1 wrote: »

Iron_Warrior wrote: »

Ransack, deep slash

Actually, I need to stop using Ransack. (I'm only using it on my main because I would be over-penetrating with the other morph, but I can change that pretty easily by replacing one of my other penetration sources). Deep Slash on the other hand I think just needs Minor Maim replace with a bleed. If I remember correctly, I use Deep Slash cause it turns that attack into an AOE (it's not like this in base or in the other morph but I'll have to check at a respec shrine).

If Deep Slash can have a bleed, then it would fill the same role as Cleave as both abilities do similar damage numbers at base, Deep Slash just doesn't have the bleed and shield. It doesn't need the shield though since it applies a slow instead.

I also think think deep slash should apply a bleed. It really fits the name and icon. Also BroughBreaux is right, it also needs to increase damage passively too otherwise it will stay useless. Or we can keep the passives and compensate for it through skills. Personally i would do it like this:

Ransack: remove the taunt, increase the damage. It will be the spammable.

Deep slash: applies a bleed to enemies in front of you.

Defensive posture and morphs: i'll keep this skill purely for tanks but since it is right now pretty useless i will add an effect to it. For 10 seconds after using this ability, when you hold block you get an aoe around you that deals 10% of your physical or spell resistance each second to enemies around you.

Invasion: remove the stun from this morph but now it gets a unique effect. You hit the enemies in front of you, enemies that are hit with invasion take 6% more from you for 10 seconds.

Power slam: reduce the damage and change the effect of this skill. You hit the enemy and if they have less then 30% health they will take 12% more damage from you for 10 seconds

Keep the passives the same and also the numbers can change to balance it

Monte_Cristo · January 2022

As someone who likes using sword and shield for the looks, I'd like something to boost the damage up, too.
What about also making one of defensive posture's morphs a spike shield? For 20 seconds, return ?% of melee damage back to the attacker.

drsalvation · January 2022

Ksariyu wrote: »

They need to add some real mechanics to make the skill line shine. Personally, I really think they need to reevaluate how they design roles here in 2020s - Tanks and healers being no-damage roles is boring and causes a lot of frustration in PuG groups.

As I mentioned, I think power bash should be a tank's skill to deal damage, it's a waste for damage builds since you need to block to ramp up the damage, and drains your stamina quickly, and the damage dealt isn't really worth much in PvP, you put too much risk for a burst that requires you to block, and in the end, it's not worth it. Power of the light won't get the max damage from just power bash, and you've drained your stamina building up the damage, leaving you vulnerable as heck.
And in PvE, the tanks are the ones taunting and blocking, not the DPS.

It should be a tank's skill to deal damage. I don't do much as a tank other than placing protective runes (which don't rely on a tank role anyway, they're still just as effective as a healer or a DPS) and taunting. There's really no other type of skills that a tank could do for the team, the DPS is too low to make a difference, and the healing is too costly, so why not give tanks a slow but sure way to deal massive damage with power bash by making it scale by either health or armor?

It would be an easy counter in PvP too (so no excuses like "tAnKiNg is mEtA"), just stop attacking, or focus on bursts that don't add up to the blocking count.

But as I mentioned on other threads, with the introduction of armory, zenimax free'd themselves of ever having to make supporting roles any fun, just switch to a damage build for the rest of the content. So I don't think they'd ever focus on tanks to do any sort of damage.

So if they want to keep making damage builds take all the fun stuff, at least I can still wish for sword and shield to have some fun viable DPS options, like low-slash, and maybe defensive posture's morph could be one that buffs your damage the same way hidden blade (DW) or rally (2H) do.

I'm just tired of having sword and shield builds rely on class skills or amor procs for damage. It makes sets like Knight-errant redundant and useless (I mean, I have knight errant in my build, but I'm not really using any sword and shield skills for damage, only shielded assault as a gap closer and hopefully stun, nothing more)

JJOtterBear · January 2022

oh man i would love it if sword/shield was reworked so that it could be a valid dps option. I want to play as a knight but not be a tank, you know?

MindOfTheSwarm · January 2022

Sword and Board is already viable for DPS, equip Deadlands Demolisher with Infused Basing Glyphs. Then Bash weave with Power Slam. With that alone I can hit around 40k.

Iron_Warrior · January 2022

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Sword and Board is already viable for DPS, equip Deadlands Demolisher with Infused Basing Glyphs. Then Bash weave with Power Slam. With that alone I can hit around 40k.

I'm not sure if i can say sacrificing a 5 piece set, 3 bloodthirsty traits , 3 weapon power glyphs and passives of other weapons for some bash damage and 40k of mostly single target dps is viable. That's a HUUUUGE tradeoff. Maybe viable for questing and some easier dungeons. Even if it did like 120k dps, it was still awful because spaming bash is simply not fun. I want s/b to be able to compete with the other weapons so we can have more variety in this game and players will have more options to choose. "Good enough" is not enough, weapons should be able to compete with eachother.

Mrtoobyy · January 2022

My main wish for 1h is that they rework the animation for Light and heavy attacks. They are so bad... in first person they are sadly so bad I cant play in first person with 1h. I remember when the game came out when you swung your sword from side to side. Like you were slicing stuff. I hate that they removed that specific animation

drsalvation · January 2022

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Sword and Board is already viable for DPS, equip Deadlands Demolisher with Infused Basing Glyphs. Then Bash weave with Power Slam. With that alone I can hit around 40k.

Yeah, OR you can equip 2H or DW, and use any skill and still be viable source of damage without needed specific gear sets.
This is the problem with S&S, you need very specific sets to play on a very specific style and rely only on a single skill.

Low slash could easily be a spammable main source of damage, but it's just used for crowd control or ult regen.
Power slam is marked as DPS, but to ramp it up you need to block multiple times, making it a uselessly redundant skill because DPS won't be blocking, and tanks who COULD use that buff aren't going to deal much damage anyway because tanks are just terrible at dealing damage and the skill is scaled based on damage, not health or resistances.
Defensive stance isn't that useful either, damage shields are a complete joke in PvP, and barely anyone uses projectiles to deal damage (at least in PvP)
The only useful skill is shielded assault because it's a gap closer and stuns enemies.

If you look at 2H and DW, they both have AoE skills to deal damage (the ONLY AoE in S&S is a morph that's used to reduce movement speed), they both have a spammable DPS skill (the ONLY one in S&S requires you to block to make it strong), they both have a skill that buffs up your damage for 20 seconds (S&S has none), they have an execution skill (well, the one from DW isn't as strong as the one from 2H but they both buff up the weaker your opponent is).
The only thing is that DW doesn't have a gap closer (but it does have a ranged attack).
And let's be honest, not even Tanks use S&S skills other than puncture, they're so bad even for a tank weapon set.
Unless you're like me who uses void bash to pull all enemies close and then do AoE taunt with tormentor. Other than that, there's just no use to other skills.