It is kind of all that. Basically if you get a little burned out doing something there is plenty different to choose from. Classes, roles, all that makes very little difference without a good variety of content.

I don't really understand the propositions made because for me, they don't relate to the subject. I can't vote therefore.

For me, diversity concerns the amount and variety of activities available within the game content. Roughly, ESO main activities are:
- Standard MMO content: PvE / PvP / End game / Crafting / Trading / Events / Housing (different degree)
- Not seen in all MMOs: Scrying / Stealing / Fishing

If I compare that to content of other MMOs I play, ESO is a bit on the low side. I'm used to have following features, with several activities specifically linked to each of those:
- Flying/gliding (in the air content)
- Diving /swimming (under water content with even a mount to ride under water in GW2)
- "Real" jumping (long jumps, short jumps, climbing, speed run to jump farther...)
- "Real" mounting (different mounts doing different type of transport with a skill bar while mounted)
- Treasure hunts (long and challenging ones, requiring to jump, mount, fly, ...)
- and so on...

If I take the specific example of GW2: other things also add to all of the above, like all the different ways to be transported from one point to another (mushrooms sending us up, geysers, tunneling, throwers, twisters, launch pads, and so on...).

So, sorry for that, but ESO has - for me personally - quite a limited content, therefore not so much diversity. However, it doesn't change the fact that it's fun to play ESO. The game is just different.

kargen27 wrote: »

DreamyLu wrote: »

I don't really understand the propositions made because for me, they don't relate to the subject. I can't vote therefore.

For me, diversity concerns the amount and variety of activities available within the game content. Roughly, ESO main activities are:
- Standard MMO content: PvE / PvP / End game / Crafting / Trading / Events / Housing (different degree)
- Not seen in all MMOs: Scrying / Stealing / Fishing

If I compare that to content of other MMOs I play, ESO is a bit on the low side. I'm used to have following features, with several activities specifically linked to each of those:
- Flying/gliding (in the air content)
- Diving /swimming (under water content with even a mount to ride under water in GW2)
- "Real" jumping (long jumps, short jumps, climbing, speed run to jump farther...)
- "Real" mounting (different mounts doing different type of transport with a skill bar while mounted)
- Treasure hunts (long and challenging ones, requiring to jump, mount, fly, ...)
- and so on...

If I take the specific example of GW2: other things also add to all of the above, like all the different ways to be transported from one point to another (mushrooms sending us up, geysers, tunneling, throwers, twisters, launch pads, and so on...).

So, sorry for that, but in term of diversity, ESO has - for me personally - quite a limited content, therefore not so much diversity. However, it doesn't change the fact that it's fun to play ESO. The game is just different.

I tried GW2 and found it extremely underwhelming. Personal tastes I guess. Content is content though. Being in the air or under water is really just another zone.

It is and remains always a matter of taste and preferences.

However, I was only speaking about the amount of proposed activities that is a lot bigger. There is a jumping content, an underwater content, a "in the air" content, a mounting content (with even a mount with skill bar in PvP) and some other things, that come additional to the same content than ESO. What GW2 doesn't have is scrying, stealing, fishing and housing.

I don't know how it is in FF and WoW.

I'd honestly say it's a bit of "All of the above," but I think choice 1 best matches my personal thoughts. Specifically the idea of "fighting styles," something which is tragically lacking in this game, especially in PvE. There are so many skills and sets to choose from, but there are so few actual mechanics to any of them, so a lot of them feel like copy-paste abilities with different visuals.
The way I see it, you should be able to take something basic like a parse and give it some variety between builds. Not just the names of the skills, but the actual actions the player is taking. Then, in actual combat, those builds will feel genuinely different.

Will be answering based purely on proposed variants. Build one isn't really important part for me at all, it's just a tool of trade so to say. Like a sword or enchantment brand for a mercenary, it just should do it's job and preferably be best at it no matter the looks and flavor. But fleshing out personality and character is purely class centric for me. It's choosing a profession and education versus clothing and tools I'll be using.
(Right eso? Let's get back to that direction instead of making everyone the same but "skinned" differently)

Role also isn't something that static, you can easily adjust on a fly if having enough experience.

Hybridisation is quite the opposite in this exact game for me but that's personal preference once more.

Solo play... I'm really unsure how that have any connection especially in an mmo. There would never be a way to "complete" the game solo and that's the charm of it imo.

Heal on any class with min difference in overall strength

I'd say build diversity, the ability to make a variety of characters who are distinctly different from each other.

When that's done well it includes classes having distinct identities (because that's a big part of the build) and enabling hybrid builds and solo play, because it's possible to make a character which is tailored to that.

I'd say having clear roles can be detrimental to build diversity, because it almost always comes down to the 3 you listed, and when a game is built around that there's a risk everything else is secondary. It's too easy to get to the point where any tank is basically the same as any other tank, all healers are the same and all DPS are the same. Maybe their skills have different animations but functionally they have to do the same thing because that's what the group and the game mechanics require.

But making a game which isn't built around those 3 roles requires a lot more creativity from both developers and players to figure out how each class can have things it can contribute without groups requiring a specific combination of classes. When it's done badly you end up with those games where only a few classes are really used.

I forgot to mention that I also agree that game diversity can mean having a wide variety of content to complete, but that's an entirely different sort of diversity to the one the OP seems to be asking about. The two can go together but they can also be separate - you could have a game with a huge variety of activities to do but very limited and rigidly defined classes that don't offer much build diversity at all.

Actually - it is all of the above in one way or another. Different classes are different, only if each class "plays" differently. Animation & it's colour is not enough. I also expect each class to have different pros & cons. If a class specializes in something, I think it "ok" to expect X class to be better at something than other class, but weaker in other things.

Same goes for races & their passives. Each races used to promote certain playstyle in a tiny way. Argonians had sustain / healing, Khajiit had crit damage, Dunmer had hybrid weapon / spell damage, Altmers had top spell damage etc.

Nowadays ESO is pretty much promoting only weapon / spell damage, so pretty much any race that doesn't have this bonus is kinda irrelevant. Previously you could for example chose a sustain race & build for damage, or pick a damage focused race and build for sustain. There used to be way more build options.

Diversity for me, means that we have a lot of builds, that can min-max. That there is a lot of options to achieve top results. It also means that there are reasons, other than RP & flavour to pick certain class & race.

For example: I would like to use fear CC. Why would I pick a NB, if I can use fighters guild ability on any other class ? Even on a NB it is better to use guild skill, because it is superior to NB fear skill.

If every class runs same ability, even class that used to have said ability as a class exclusive ability, then it is homogenization - the opposite of diversity.

Build diversity is the thing I love most in ESO, I have tried countless combinations of sets and skills on my DK, both in PVP and PVE and I loved the entire journey.

Build diversity should come with content that enables experimentation. Just to throw it out there, for me that could be three things:

1. Make Overland content more difficult in the sense that experimenting with sets and skills means something. For example, if you're stuck, try another skill and you might be able to tackle the challenge.
2. let go of standard roles
3. At this point, I don't see the point in classes anymore.

I am very aware that standard roles are what dungeons are based on and it's a litte late go back on those decisions, but I do believe that, as ESO is being markted as play as you want, the entire idea of a healer, tank and DPS is bogus. Sure, if you're pushing scores you'll optimize the group to max dmg output, max buffs and make sure everyone stays healed up. But in general I think this game has all the right ideas to ditch the groups. The only thing that is really an issue is taunting, which could easily be solved by tweaking the current mechanic.

As for classes, sure they exist for balance, but I see the argument that "everyone would use the same set of skills and gear if there were no classes". I just don't buy that, I can't back that up, obviously but I would love to see a test where everyone can pick any skill and see what people come up with. With everything that's out there, I'm sure a few skills would be popular but with limit of 4 skills + ulti on a bar, the choices will be hard to make. I also think that everything related to resitance could play a much bigger role in building a character, since everyone could effectively build for a specific elemental power.

I started the post with telling how much I enjoy experimenting, all three suggestions end up having more reasons to experiment with builds.

On last thing to add, sure you can always make a new character to experiment but first of all, for some reason I don't like that, I like having one character and sculpting it (I realise some people love making new characters, which is also great) and secondly I'm not talking about experimenting with a class but combining different schools of magic to sculpt your perfect character.

Elder scrolls is always all about choices, Being limited to one school of magic has always seemed like a strange idea to me.

Very interesting feedback so far! Like I said it's definitely hard to pick one answer and I didn't think about some aspects of the game at the time. Those of you who suggested that the amount and type content is important, I definitely agree that it plays a large role in the amount of diverse play.