Why noone plays stamsorc

Faulgor · January 2022

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

^ everyone who says that surge is bad is seriously underestimating the skill. It heals on par with Vigor if it procs each second, which isn't that hard given that you can use storm that ticks each second and add LA+skill on top, so baseline is 3 damages per GCD (can be more). You take camo hunter and your crit is at min 20%.

0.8^3 = ~50% to miss the heal. So half vigor without any crit gear. Far from bad really.

And uh, realistically, who runs it anyway? I think all stamsorcs glide with 2h vate for that sweet burst with crystal -> streak/DoS -> medium+whirl execute.

this isn't true in practice at all. A few months ago there was a forums post by who was arguable the best stamsorc on pc na asking for a rework of crit surge because of the changes and imbalances to crit after the cp changes. Long story short a lot of people pointed that theoretically you should get X uptime on crit surge, however through countless tests and cmx logs you can see that the uptime was a lot less, maybe around 20% if I recall right.

crit surge as it is , is still useful for stamsorcs who don't want to use 2h. As a heal however its a bit lackluster. It doesn't need a huge buff but perhaps something just a bit more consistent

I think the problem is that the crits can fall into the cooldown period, so to crit always on cooldown isn't as likely as we'd like, even with higher crit.

Didn't Briarheart get a rework some time ago so all crits heal for a lesser amount, but without a cooldown? Maybe that would be an option to make crit surge more reliable.

PvP_Exploiter · January 2022

Don't have a better example at hand, but whenever I do another BG on StamSorc I'll get another one.

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milllaurie · January 2022

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

Don't have a better example at hand, but whenever I do another BG on StamSorc I'll get another one.

So you built around procing crit sureg woth DoT skills. Imagine you had to build around Living dark, spirit mender or cauterize being even half decent.
You should not be focusing your build around being able to use a class heal.

Faulgor · January 2022

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

Don't have a better example at hand, but whenever I do another BG on StamSorc I'll get another one.

I'm surprised how much Unflinching Rage heals. Even more than Vigor, which is of course biased in the Orcs favor (you don't need to cast Vigor if your passives keep you up), but still.

I took the suggestion to build around crit to heart and had an incredible amount of fun in Cyrodiil on my Nord stamsorc - for the most part.
5 Ravager / 5 Night Mother's Gaze / 1 Slimecraw / Wild Hunt, DW/Bow, 5m 1h 1l

I enjoy PvP and especially Cyro, but by no means would I call myself good at it. But when this works, it's the most sustained damage I have ever dealt in PvP. I've never felt so fearless engaging someone 1 on 1. The synergy of healing, debuffing and buffing on crits is just beautiful and effortless.

So, when doesn't it work?

In siege and at range. You just have to attack to survive, which is the charm in a pressuring playstyle, but when I can't reach someone due to LoS, range, siege, I'm pretty much toast unless I disengage.
Once you're outnumbered by good players it also gets iffy. Getting CCed in a crowd isn't too terrible as long as you can still hit someone with your Hurricane, Deadly Cloak, etc. But you're very dependent on buffs and if you can't reapply them when they run out, things go south quickly.
Getting ganked also doesn't feel great. As a Nord with 29k HP I wouldn't consider myself a glass cannon, but it's not a Templar either, is it.
All of this means that you are especially vulnerable to lag. Whereas classes more competent at self-healing might just block and sit out a lag spike, that's not a possibility here.

I'm also not sure about the skill loadout. Currently I don't even have CC besides Dawnbreaker, which I missed pretty much every time. Another dot would also be nice but there's just no room - one of the reasons I went for NMG instead of slotting Caltrops.

In any case, this might not be the best stamsorc, but it's mine.

Alchimiste1 · January 2022

divnyi wrote: »

@Alchimiste1 DK has literally the same skill but without any upsides (unless you run heavy attack build). I don't see why this skill should be tweaked to be default class HoT, when it's tool that enables crit built sorc specifically.

Uptime says that because you are not spamming LAs and skills every second. If you would stack dots and parse dummy tank, it would go even higher.

That skills isn't used by many dks in the first place. I don't think I know a single stamdk that uses that skill. The duration is long enough on that skill that its not a bad choice for a magdk to use it but still that skill is only many used if you are in a group. On top of that magdk has more healing than stamsorc does so you can really compare the skills without taking into account the whole picture.

Alchimiste1 · January 2022

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

^ everyone who says that surge is bad is seriously underestimating the skill. It heals on par with Vigor if it procs each second, which isn't that hard given that you can use storm that ticks each second and add LA+skill on top, so baseline is 3 damages per GCD (can be more). You take camo hunter and your crit is at min 20%.

0.8^3 = ~50% to miss the heal. So half vigor without any crit gear. Far from bad really.

And uh, realistically, who runs it anyway? I think all stamsorcs glide with 2h vate for that sweet burst with crystal -> streak/DoS -> medium+whirl execute.

this isn't true in practice at all. A few months ago there was a forums post by who was arguable the best stamsorc on pc na asking for a rework of crit surge because of the changes and imbalances to crit after the cp changes. Long story short a lot of people pointed that theoretically you should get X uptime on crit surge, however through countless tests and cmx logs you can see that the uptime was a lot less, maybe around 20% if I recall right.

crit surge as it is , is still useful for stamsorcs who don't want to use 2h. As a heal however its a bit lackluster. It doesn't need a huge buff but perhaps something just a bit more consistent

Then he was not the best stam sorc. Not at all. You guys miss the right setups. Crit surge is my strongest heal ability, far more than vigor + rally together. Running on different builds starting from medium armor dw/bow to heavy armor s/b/ 2h. A good stam sorc who dares to plays on its own in real 1vX builds up for crit surge. Having multiple damage source at the same time frame for crit surge to proc, like dots (from sets!) or bash damage on top of the LA weaving while having ~30% crit is enough to achieve this.

I'm not even going to argue that, static wave was widely considered one of the best stamsorc on pc na.

Anyways got any cmx logs you can show as proof of you out there 1vxing ? I want to see what the uptime is on crit surge. Over the course of a fight.

PvP_Exploiter · January 2022

milllaurie wrote: »

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

Don't have a better example at hand, but whenever I do another BG on StamSorc I'll get another one.

So you built around procing crit sureg woth DoT skills. Imagine you had to build around Living dark, spirit mender or cauterize being even half decent.
You should not be focusing your build around being able to use a class heal.

No I build around good damage, crit surge just comes with that. 36% crit chance too btw, not built for it.

Faulgor wrote: »

PvP_Exploiter wrote: »

Don't have a better example at hand, but whenever I do another BG on StamSorc I'll get another one.

I'm surprised how much Unflinching Rage heals. Even more than Vigor, which is of course biased in the Orcs favor (you don't need to cast Vigor if your passives keep you up), but still.

Vigor is a terrible heal, rely on Dark Deal much more and use Vigor when you need to. Better to think of it as a damage shield rather than a burst heal. Use it when you know you're going to take damage while kiting to cast Dark Deal. But sitting there spamming Vigor you will die.

OBJnoob · January 2022

I still think crit surge could use a boost… but I’m going to share some good news regardless.

On Xbox NA Ravenwatch there are a lot of stamsorcs. I don’t know how much more or less than other classes but I mean they’re around and most of them seem pretty tough. Not like magdk or Templar tough, but tough.

I’ve been playing mine lately… one of my older characters, and THE most fun to play in my opinion. I’m going to talk about my setup and you’re going to laugh but don’t worry I know it’s not meta or anything it just happens to be fun.

Keeping in mind this is no proc….
Orc sorc, warrior mundus, new moon acolyte, eternal vigor, wild hunt ring, some odd 1pc monster shoulder.
Dual wield and bow. Using the clan fear pet, vigor, and crit surge to heal. I’m using jewels of misrule for my food/drink cuz I’m weird. My stam recovery is at like 2k give or take and my mag recovery is, I dunno, between 1 and 1.5k.

So basically I buff up and then pre cast crystal weapon. Fire it with my bow along with poison injection. Bar swap, streak for stun, do the dang… rending slashes I think it’s called? And more or less repeat for pressure while streaking way too often until eventually I’m ready to stun with dawn breaker instead and spin to win.

Not my best character. But effective at smashing potatoes and getting away from better players. I probably 1vXed groups of 4 5 and 6 like 5 times in the last two days. And I’m not a player typically good enough to X. All the while laughing at my tv screen and when my wife asks what the heck is wrong with me I yell IM FAST AS @#$& BOI

Tiphis · January 2022

The biggest problem I find is that you shine in a very certain niche of mobility and bursting squishy players, but you are just a worse version of stamblade.

Mobility is a bit of a joke right now because everybody has it. Sprinting with RAT gets you 170% movement speed anyway, the free cp passive gives you another 4%. 174% is pretty solid without having to sacrifice anything. If you run 5 medium that's bumped up to 189%, and then 199% when cc immune, which is a lot of the time. So basically Sprint + RAT + 5 medium is speed cap. No swift/wild hunt/wood elf/ hurricane/pots/sets needed. My magdk (you know the slowest class in the history of eso) sits at 186% (Sprint 140% + RAT 170% + CP 174% + 2xswift 188% - 2Heavy 186%).

One of the issues I ran into on my stamsorc was that I had to build around not going over speed cap and losing efficiency.

Removing crit from medium builds greatly reduced crit surge efficacy. But then impen becomes much less necessary, meaning most run well-fitted or sturdy. Which means landing a non-blocked dswing becomes a rare thing or only works against squishy noobs.

Against people who mostly block/dodge stamsorc is the actual worst class to be:

Templars: drain stamina heavily against blocking enemies who are blocking curtesy of jabs/sweeps, while also having a passive increasing your damage against them. Spammable and PoTL can't be dodged.

Dragonknights: Dot's aren't dodged (after you land them), fossilize is very good against enemies who dodge a lot.

Sorcs: Mag has ability to streak and then range down blockers/dodgers, stam has to build for some range or run back to the enemy to do damage. Mag has curse which hits through dodge.

Necros: BB hits through dodge, Mag has totem which is unblockable cc.

Wardens: Sub Assault hits through dodge. Arctic wind is aoe unbloackable cc in melee range. Can run fletchers for a solid dot.

NBs: susceptible to both blocking and dodging but can pick and choose battles with cloak. If the fight is completely necessary though, probably worse than stamsorc.

Stamsorc is doubly hit by the well-fitted/sturdy meta because they don't get much use from sturdy but then every other class has better ability to hit them through dodge.

Metemsycosis · January 2022

needs an offensive spammable

Raeyleigh · January 2022

Stamsorc lost a lot of what made it work well in the last couple of patches.
Speed can easily be achieved by anyone, quality of life like hurricane revealing nbs is gone, but most importantly its healing is in the gutter atm.

Clannfear is more usefull for being an annoying hitbox running at your opponent than for being a weak burst heal, dark deal and critsurge missed out on the 1k bonus base weapon damage since cp2.0 since they dont scale.
And since Blackwood health recovery is also borderline useless, which used to be most commonly build by stamsorcs to help with the classes poor healing.

Tbh the most simple fix would be to increase crit surge to 4k and dark deal to 10-11k healing and call it a day.
And the pets need a rework anyways.

Kordai · January 2022

It's basically just a worse version of every other class. Brings almost nothing to the table now. Weakest heals in the game, weakest against dots, weakest against aoes, weakest againt people who block, weakest against people who dodge, weakest against tanky classes.

If you want tankiness: DK, warden, templar, necro do it much better without having to sacrifice for it.

If you want burst: NB does it much better without having to sacrifice for it.

If you want attrition: DK does it much better without having to sacrifice for it.

Sustain is only as good as the rest of the toolkit. Unlimitied sustain doesn't buy you anything when you are forced to spam vigor on cooldown and don't have enough survivability to sustain damage. Same with mobility.

On my slower toons whenever I fight a stamsorc I can usually just stand there and wait for them to come within range of my attacks and then ignore them when they try to kite. Sure I can't kill them but they can't kill me either. Can still flip a rss flag because they can't tank in range to stop the flip. On most of my other toons I can tank enough of the enemy's burst to be able to stay offensive, with the exception of nb. But then nb has much more burst and elusiveness anyway.