Kinras v deadly strike

Syiccal · January 2022

On a pve magplar also running bahsies what's the dps difference on these sets?

ankeor · January 2022

They are more or less same.

virtus753 · January 2022

On a stamplar there is now a good 6k+ difference in my parses between those sets, but that’s because they lowered the power budget of the fifth piece of Deadly by 25% to account for the fact it can now be fully utilized by magplar as well. As a result, Kinras consistently outperforms Deadly by a noticeable margin in my experience on stamplar.

I’d be curious to see actual parse numbers on a magplar. I’d hate for Deadly to have been nerfed out of BiS on a stamplar if it isn’t competing with BiS on a magplar either. That would mean the nerf was entirely unwarranted.

Syiccal · January 2022

On the 3m dummy with bad traits I'm getting around 53+ using deadly at the min on my magplar.
My though on kinra is that there may well be alot if time when the stacks fall off due to dungeon mechanics etc so deadly may be better when not dummy humping?

Stanx · January 2022

Syiccal wrote: »

On the 3m dummy with bad traits I'm getting around 53+ using deadly at the min on my magplar.
My though on kinra is that there may well be alot if time when the stacks fall off due to dungeon mechanics etc so deadly may be better when not dummy humping?

Yep kinra's is very much skill-based. Exactly the reason I found I couldn't use it after grinding it out! People can keep it up, and those people will be doing more DPS

Everest_Lionheart · January 2022

For what it’s worth I threw on war maiden and overwhelming surge on my magplar and still parses at 95K versus the 101K I hit wearing Bahsei and Kinras. Best part is for 6K DPS loss I don’t have to worry about any silly proc conditions. We call that a win-win.

Grandchamp1989 · January 2022

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

For what it’s worth I threw on war maiden and overwhelming surge on my magplar and still parses at 95K versus the 101K I hit wearing Bahsei and Kinras. Best part is for 6K DPS loss I don’t have to worry about any silly proc conditions. We call that a win-win.

Yeah parse setup vs real intensive fight setup.

Everest_Lionheart · January 2022

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

For what it’s worth I threw on war maiden and overwhelming surge on my magplar and still parses at 95K versus the 101K I hit wearing Bahsei and Kinras. Best part is for 6K DPS loss I don’t have to worry about any silly proc conditions. We call that a win-win.

Yeah parse setup vs real intensive fight setup.

Yup, parsing is basically just a mini game these days.

haelgaan · January 2022

You will likely find Deadly more forgiving than Kinras, if you don't have a strong weave (or, at least, don't want to have to worry about it being perfect)

Jeirno · January 2022

Deadly is better in shorter bursty fights, anything below ~1 minute, the longer the fights are the better Kinras becomes compared to deadly, there are exceptions though.

fizl101 · January 2022

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

For what it’s worth I threw on war maiden and overwhelming surge on my magplar and still parses at 95K versus the 101K I hit wearing Bahsei and Kinras. Best part is for 6K DPS loss I don’t have to worry about any silly proc conditions. We call that a win-win.

Yup, I'm similar with aegis caller and advancing yokeda, instead of relequens or kinras on my stamplar. For a few k difference I'm still hitting hard without worrying about having to hit every la or dropping everything to move to a new enemy

haelgaan · January 2022

ha, I farmed Aegis Caller when it first came out, because I love the proc animation. I have it on a toon that I mostly solo with, but am finally thinking of replacing it, though - the mobs don't seem to listen to me when I say, "now hold still and stay in the spinning blades"

Hapexamendios · January 2022

I'm using Dagon and Deadly on my Stamplar and I'm fine with that combo.

Dexter411 · January 2022

Check out SkinnyCheeks. He has done comparision of the BiS sets, sure it was on stamplar but templars use mainly jabs and not much of a difference between the too

fizl101 · January 2022

haelgaan wrote: »

ha, I farmed Aegis Caller when it first came out, because I love the proc animation. I have it on a toon that I mostly solo with, but am finally thinking of replacing it, though - the mobs don't seem to listen to me when I say, "now hold still and stay in the spinning blades"

Overland I'm not worried about as they die easily, and in trials the mobs are - generally unless a drunk trial - under semi decent control lol

I don't do that many dungeons regularly to really see an impact there for myself. if I have to move around alot I use war machine often (when not solo) to also give buffs to the group. About 2-3k less damage but works for me

virtus753 · January 2022

Dexter411 wrote: »

Check out SkinnyCheeks. He has done comparision of the BiS sets, sure it was on stamplar but templars use mainly jabs and not much of a difference between the too

I know stamplar identity is in a rough spot, but it’s hardly fair to conflate two subclasses, especially just on the claim that they use the same spammable, which is not sufficiently accurate. (Said spammable only does about 25% or a hair more of a full parse on a stamplar to boot, so basing the conflation on that amount is ignoring nearly 75% of the damage being brought to the table.) Magplar and stamplar use two different versions of sweeps/jabs, the magplar’s doing noticeably less damage because it has a heal, while magplar has a spammable class execute of which stamplar can’t make efficient use. That execute is channeled and so also buffed by Deadly, which is another reason not to assume that the numbers from Deadly on stamplar are transferable.

(That’s all on top of the differences between mag and stam that exist in all classes, which in and of themselves would be enough to say the numbers aren’t the same.)

Even more importantly, the fifth piece bonus of the Deadly set itself was nerfed by a full 25% at the same time as the hybridizations were implemented that enabled it to be suitable for magplar now as well, so I seriously hope there is a difference in its performance on magplar and the nerf wasn’t without cause. If Deadly doesn’t perform better on a magplar than on a stamplar, then this was a nerf that took away from templar identity without serving to provide better balance. That’s why I’d like to see numbers and not assume the classes are basically the same.

Syiccal · January 2022

What are you achieving on 3m dummy self buffed? Mag and stam?

BXR_Lonestar · January 2022

The benefit of Kinra is that it also helps with group DPS in damage phases in trials, but in many situations, mechanics phases also make stacks fall off, so in real world applications, your DPS will actually be less.

madman65 · January 2022

Deadly gives 15% damage over time and channeling abilities
Kinra`s gives 10% damage done (Major Berserk)
It looks like Deadly Strikes would be the obvious choice but HOW does Kinra`s outperform then.
Same stats on crit and weapon and spell damage.
Can the CP tree make up for the damage done that Kinra`s gives? Also you might get more DPS slotting Camouflage Hunter to get the minor Beserk? Just wondering.

Everest_Lionheart · January 2022

madman65 wrote: »

Deadly gives 15% damage over time and channeling abilities
Kinra`s gives 10% damage done (Major Berserk)
It looks like Deadly Strikes would be the obvious choice but HOW does Kinra`s outperform then.
Same stats on crit and weapon and spell damage.
Can the CP tree make up for the damage done that Kinra`s gives? Also you might get more DPS slotting Camouflage Hunter to get the minor Beserk? Just wondering.

Kinras is a flat 10% boost to all damage. So long as you can LA weave properly it does more damage that way, but if you are prone to missing light attacks Deadly is the better option.

qwjr8989_ESO · January 2022

Wait could a melee magplar actually do decent damage with just war maiden/deadly??? What monster helm/mythic would you run?

How far off top would you be?

HonestFarmer · January 2022

qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »

Wait could a melee magplar actually do decent damage with just war maiden/deadly??? What monster helm/mythic would you run?

How far off top would you be?

I run Scathing Mage (3 lights + dagger) + Deadly (2 meds + jewelries) on my magplar. Using trash potion, jabs as main spammable, and no execute beam, I can do around 75k+ dps on a trial dummy. I play with 250ms+ latency so the actual result for someone with good ping can be more.

Monster set is Nerien'eth.

Since war maiden is very similar to scathing, I don't think the result will be much of a difference

francesinhalover · February 2022

haelgaan wrote: »

ha, I farmed Aegis Caller when it first came out, because I love the proc animation. I have it on a toon that I mostly solo with, but am finally thinking of replacing it, though - the mobs don't seem to listen to me when I say, "now hold still and stay in the spinning blades"

You could replace with pillar.

francesinhalover · February 2022

I wonder on a stam sorce with rapid strikes + 4-5 dots(6 with ulti +bound armaments and pet) would deadly strikes out perform kinra?

Hotdog_23 · February 2022

qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »

Wait could a melee magplar actually do decent damage with just war maiden/deadly??? What monster helm/mythic would you run?

How far off top would you be?

What I run on one of my Magplars and she does good damage. Use 2 daggers with Malestrom staff backbar. Still using two crit monster sets for group content and slimecraw and ring of the wild hunt when solo or pale order if doing arenas.

Stay safe and happy hunting

fiender66 · February 2022

qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »

Wait could a melee magplar actually do decent damage with just war maiden/deadly??? What monster helm/mythic would you run?

How far off top would you be?

My main magplar has iceheart/war maiden/overwhelming. I avoid parsing, but the results in actual solo fighting are definitely good (I mean: soloing dungeons in normal)

TBH, lately I started using withered hand/spinner (and lover stone instead of thief), and I am very, very happy

Dexter411 · March 2022

qwjr8989_ESO wrote: »

Wait could a melee magplar actually do decent damage with just war maiden/deadly??? What monster helm/mythic would you run?

How far off top would you be?

Just came back to it. I did 59k dps on Dwarven Spider in vMA with Mother Sorrow, Julianos, one weapon dmg monster and pale order

The problem wtih war maidens and deadly is that it wont boost your light attacks. If you are missing light attacks that is no big deal but you also lose overall damage.

Deadly is the best choice if you cant keep up the light attack stacks(Kinra is all or nothing, AY is harder to stack but it has nice curve to it)

Deadly is BiS for plars for most random group content