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Yet another forum thread about monetization
ive_wonder
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Hello, it's me again!
I think crown store can be improved.
Steps that can lead to a better monetization in my opinion.
1. Remove Lootboxes.
You almost never get items you really want out of them and even if you can get an item you want through gem, you most likely overpaid for that item.
2. Remove junc items from the store.
Respec scrolls, crowns store food/potions etc, vampire bites/cures, experience scrolls.
3. Remove mounts speed/inventory/stamina items (and rework mount system as a consequence).
4. Make all houses available all the time except for a few event ones.
Looking at how much a single notable crown store house cost, i think it would be better if they were available all the time in the store.
It gives more reason for people to aquire gold and exchange it for crowns and in the long run it's better then a "once per year" availability model.
5. Make crown store items rotations more often.
6. Decrease crown cost / make sales more often.
7. Include battle pass in the game.
How can battle pass look? It can include achievements that we can work on to get unique costumes/items etc. Something like that book achievement in dark brotherhood questline.
Question to the playerbase - how do you think monetization can be improved?
P.S.
I will include a link to the video explaining lootboxes if it's forbidden please delete the video, but i think it's a good contribution to this post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VFrbD1mhac&ab_channel=TheActMan
Edited by ive_wonder on January 14, 2022 2:58AM I think crown store can be improved.
Steps that can lead to a better monetization in my opinion.
1. Remove Lootboxes.
You almost never get items you really want out of them and even if you can get an item you want through gem, you most likely overpaid for that item.
2. Remove junc items from the store.
Respec scrolls, crowns store food/potions etc, vampire bites/cures, experience scrolls.
3. Remove mounts speed/inventory/stamina items (and rework mount system as a consequence).
4. Make all houses available all the time except for a few event ones.
Looking at how much a single notable crown store house cost, i think it would be better if they were available all the time in the store.
It gives more reason for people to aquire gold and exchange it for crowns and in the long run it's better then a "once per year" availability model.
5. Make crown store items rotations more often.
6. Decrease crown cost / make sales more often.
7. Include battle pass in the game.
How can battle pass look? It can include achievements that we can work on to get unique costumes/items etc. Something like that book achievement in dark brotherhood questline.
Question to the playerbase - how do you think monetization can be improved?
P.S.
I will include a link to the video explaining lootboxes if it's forbidden please delete the video, but i think it's a good contribution to this post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VFrbD1mhac&ab_channel=TheActMan 8
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Foto1✭✭✭✭why should they remove loot boxes if it makes them money?PC/EU CP 1200+
Artaxerks stamina dk khajiit
Wayna Qhapaq magicka dk argonian
Rorekur stamina sorc orc
Maria de Medici magicka sorc breton
Cordeilla stamina warden wood elf
Quienn Gwendolen magicka warden high elf
Nefertari stamina necro khajiit
Boadicea Icenian magicka templar dark elf
Clarice de Medici healer nb breton10 -
Foto1✭✭✭✭2-3. Some people even buy these things. why do you decide for the community?PC/EU CP 1200+
Artaxerks stamina dk khajiit
Wayna Qhapaq magicka dk argonian
Rorekur stamina sorc orc
Maria de Medici magicka sorc breton
Cordeilla stamina warden wood elf
Quienn Gwendolen magicka warden high elf
Nefertari stamina necro khajiit
Boadicea Icenian magicka templar dark elf
Clarice de Medici healer nb breton2 -
Treeshka✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nothing in the crown store is pay to win and therefore nothing is needed to be bought from there. Why should they remove or change anything i do not understand. It is fine as it is now.
Maybe they can add more rotations as you have stated but rest is just fine.7 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree on 2, 3 and 5 (and add basic motifs to #2 as they are sooo easy to obtain in game). 2 and 3 wouldn’t effect me as I don’t buy those things but I think it looks bad (although would be okay with a disclaimer) and is a waste of store space, if that’s a consideration.
I certainly wouldn’t mind having more houses available more often but if each was available yearly I would be happy with that.
I’m not a fan of loot boxes but a lot of people like them and at least now their are seals of endeavor for if there’s just one less expensive item I want.
I have no idea what a “Battle Pass” is.Edited by Araneae6537 on January 14, 2022 3:25PM0 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And yet there is no class change token available. Which is the one thing I would be prepared to pay extra for (outside of my monthly stipend of crowns).Edited by Hurbster on January 14, 2022 9:01AMSo they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.5 -
Xuhora✭✭✭✭✭im kinda lost in your reasoning, point 1 to 6 are clearly from a customer perspective and all of them should decrease the income of ZOS. But then you follow up by "well just go with a battle pass" which is one of the most anti customer system there is in gaming....
All of the lost revenue from point 1 to 6 would have to be compensated in a battle pass, which means it will be extremly grindy every month to hit max battlepass rank and unlock the cool mount, cool title, cool costume what ever cool. so the average player with a playtime 1-2 hours would have no way in reaching the goal. so there will be an option to buy battle ranks, with a hefty price.
i dont like the monetization as it is now, but i am certain i would like your way even less....1 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm not fine with the loot box system in general, but the most egregious stuff in the crown store, in my opinion, are the things that you can buy for in-game currency or even for free. Vamp/ww bites and cures, respec scrolls for abilities and attributes, bag space and bank space upgrades... The reason for these things is simple, to prey on new players that don't know any better. They should have a warning when you try to buy them to tell newer players where to get them and how much it costs in gold AT LEAST, but preferably removed altogether. Bank space and bag space could stay since it's still a convenience to buy it since the last few upgrades can get kinda expensive for casual players, and the fact that bag space upgrades even exist is probably a reasonable gold sink to remain in game, but the cash shop upgrades should come with a warning regardless.
I'm just happy it's not the Neverwinter model to be honest. Loot boxes are loot boxes and it does suck that all the best cosmetics and mounts in game are locked behind a pay-walled mystery box that usually only contains useless pots and poisons. I believe that if these things were available for free albeit behind difficult quests, achievements, or events, it would garner more trust from the community, and the community would play the game more, for longer, and spend more money than they do currently on the game. WoW proved that with its longevity and consistent playerbase over the years. But CEO's and suits want their money now-now-now, rather than over the course of very long periods of time. I guarantee you, this game will die one day as all mmos eventually will, and it'll be significantly sooner than if these practices weren't in the game.
Now onto a fun bit; if they released REALLY cool mounts through time-limited events with moderately difficult quests to get the coolest mounts in game, they could then re-release the mounts later in the crown store at a reasonable price point (unlike the current price point for the radiant apex mounts and the like) for players that missed the exclusive event to buy outright later. Your friend has a cool mount, but it was in an event two years ago? Well mid year mayhem is coming, and during mid year mayhem, they re-release all of the event mounts over the course of the event to buy in the crown store! Alternatively, if you have enough of the endeavor coins, you can buy any of the mounts/items released in the events you missed at any time.Edited by merpins on January 14, 2022 9:19AM5 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭No to Battlepass, that's a big turn off. I'm starting a new job in a couple of months time and won't have the time I currently have to play. I don't then want to have to spend the time I do have grinding through a battle pass, I want to spend it doing the stuff I want to do.
I have no issues with Crown crates being removed, I do think they prey on the vulnerable and encourage addicts to gamble money they don't have. Not all the whales have the money they spend on them and I hate the thought that kids are going hungry as a result.
The rest? Meh. If they reduce the cost of crowns they will just put the item cost up, so you may get 55,000 crowns instead of 5,500 but that mounts you wanted for 2,000 crowns is now 20,000 crowns. In other words it will still generate Zos as much money as it does now, and everyone will be annoyed because of the increase in cost.
And one thing to consider with all the anti monetization posts - the game still has to be paid for, staff have to be paid, taxes have to be paid, offices have to be paid for, servers have to be paid for, the crown store (whether we like it or not) helps pay for the game (and give some profit back to Microsoft)1 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭
I agree, but i think monetization can be made more consumer friendly.And one thing to consider with all the anti monetization posts - the game still has to be paid for, staff have to be paid, taxes have to be paid, offices have to be paid for, servers have to be paid for, the crown store (whether we like it or not) helps pay for the game (and give some profit back to Microsoft)
About battle pass - it doesn't nesessarily has to be FOMO.
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Destai✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'll try to take a middle road here.
1. Switch timed content to be sale driven rather than availability driven. I have no problem with flash sales
2. All crown store houses and outfits should be available all the time, with the exception of event related items.
3. Add tool tips to items like respec scrolls and WW/Vamp bites that describe how to get them.
4. Add more earnable cosmetics in the game and tie them to achievements. This encourages time invested, which leads to more purchases. This would specfically include mounts and houses.
5. Enable an official crown-to-gold exchange.4 -
knightblaster✭✭✭Very much against battle pass. A battle pass combines the equivalent of paying a subscription plus a mandatory grind (because if you don't do the grind, you don't get what you wanted under the battle pass). So you're paying an extra fee to grind more. It's a terrible system.
I am fine with how ESO is currently monetized. I think it provides a lot of options for players, and different people have different preferences. I have never purchased a lootbox, for example, but if they make money for ZOS then I have no issue with them being there so that others who want to purchase them can do so. It doesn't feel coercive to me the way that a battle pass is.3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭While we may not be getting what we want out of a lootbox, Zenimax is. That is the reason they will not remove the crates until legislation or an agreement to prevent legislation requires them to in most jurisdictions the game is legally available in.
Also, when the day comes that Zenimax, and most of gaming, is forced to remove such loot boxes then we will see the monetization will change. We will be paying more someplace else and it may not be less desirable for us. This is the reality of this matter.
Edit to add.
I also disagree about the battle pass. We already have a subscription or have to purchase DLCs to play them. We do not need to add another layer on top of this. Crown crates we can choose to buy or not (I choose note) but payment to play is a choice to play or go somewhere else and players like myself will leave if we have to pay a double subscription.Edited by Amottica on January 14, 2022 8:09PM0 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭I also disagree about the battle pass. We already have a subscription or have to purchase DLCs to play them. We do not need to add another layer on top of this. Crown crates we can choose to buy or not (I choose note) but payment to play is a choice to play or go somewhere else and players like myself will leave if we have to pay a double subscription.
Literally it's the same with battle pass, you can choose to buy or not, but at least you always know that you can get those rewards and what you are getting 100%.
It doesn't nesessarily has to be a grind.
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Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is this “battle pass” that OP is proposing??? I have never heard of such a thing in any of the MMORPGs that I have played.
That follows no logic whatsoever.
Edited by Araneae6537 on January 14, 2022 8:55PM5 -
Chips_Ahoy✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »1. Remove Lootboxes.
You almost never get items you really want out of them and even if you can get an item you want through gem, you most likely overpaid for that item.
Works as expected, why should they change it?
Ferraris are not free.
I don't mind ZOS and his casino practices, they don't put a gun to my head and force me to buy crates.
What bothers me is that I can't convert everything i get to gems, when they change that I'll buy crates for sure.4 -
Jusey1✭✭✭✭✭Why should they remove...
Crown Crates are Loot Boxes, which is a form of mental manipulation to get the customers to spend a lot of money on unnecessary things because the system targets people who are prone to gambling. I actually have a friend who is prone to this kind of stuff and thus cannot play ESO due to the mere existent of Crown Crates as their gambling nature triggers that addiction.2 -
Jusey1✭✭✭✭✭I also disagree about the battle pass.
Same here. Battle passes are rarely done correctly, and the few that are done correctly ends up being completely free (Sea of Thieves' pirate bass is by far my favorite of the battle pass systems as not only is it free but it goes up so quickly)... Knowing ZOS, it will not be free and it will be such an unbelievably slow grind that it won't be worth getting unless ESO is like the only game you play.Crown crates we can choose to buy or not
It's a choice but it is also a gambling addiction which can be very hard to mentally break if you are weak to such manipulation or are just prone to addictions in general. While everything else can easily be argued as just a choice, Crown Crates is the only one which can make some people unable to choose or not, thus they should be regulated or removed. Everything else, which do prey on new players not knowing better, is a choice since it only preys on the lack of knowledge, rather than on a mental condition or addiction.0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
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No, I don't have to give you anything, just like there is NOTHING that is a "must buy to win" in the lootboxes.
If you go back through the official announcements, the "junk" people are complaining about is actually the items that people are supposed to be buying. Consumable item bundles that have a value higher than the cost of the box. With a chance at maybe getting one of the apex prizes. You are buying the consumables, not gambling on getting an apex or radiant apex item.
In the original test on the pts, there was no trading in consumables for gems. People who were doing the testing pointed out that constantly getting literally hundreds of poison/potions was not going to make anyone want to buy the crates.PTS was told there would be changes before it went live, and when it did, you could trade back the consumables. The hats, tattoos, and other "collectibles" instantly became part of your collection, whether you really wanted that steampunk dwemer eyepiece or the sorting hat from Hogwarts or not.2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Only thing I agree with is the removal of the cure from the store as it's a huge rip off, especially since the Greymoor patch where they put Prelate Sabinus in basically every single major city. Several hundred crowns vs 693 in-game gold... The Crown Store variant shouldn't even be over 100 crowns with just how common and cheap it is to get in-game.Edited by Vevvev on January 14, 2022 9:39PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
Adremal✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »
Eh, afraid that's wishful thinking, lootboxes will be around for years to come. Companies are one step ahead of the (very few) legislators that care. ESO's gem system is a one such system: it removes (from a legal standpoint) them from definition of gambling. The only victories are debacles such as that of that Jedi game that was mentioned, but companies really have to go overboard for that to happen.
ZoS isn't going overboard, so with that in mind, are we seeing lootboxes in ESO going away anytime soon? Ask me again next year and each year after that, meanwhile I'm gonna get enough virtual currency to get enough of another virtual currency to afford my pretty mounts costumes furnishings and whatnot because I can't help myself. Thankfully that doesn't put a dent in my bank account, but that's not the same for many people.
Do note that I'm absolutely ok with "wasting" money on virtual stuff, I just wish it wasn't designed this way.0 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭I tested how bad lootboxes as an experiment, out of maybe 25-ish lootboxes i opened in this game do you know how many mounts have i got?
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I guess i will just vote with my wallet.
Spending money only on direct purchases.
Sorry, i got carried away, anywaysChips_Ahoy wrote: »Works as expected, why should they change it?
Ferraris are not free.
I don't mind ZOS and his casino practices, they don't put a gun to my head and force me to buy crates.
What bothers me is that I can't convert everything i get to gems, when they change that I'll buy crates for sure.
Elder Scrolls never was a game about Ferraris
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Adremal✭✭✭✭✭
Well I'm glad you do not have a personality prone to gambling, FOMO and the like; if you did, you'd be unable to vote with your wallet. Direct purchases are not an issue, I have control over that. Or rather, not according to people who don't understand what a collector does and what a collector is, but those are direct purchases - not talking about ESO there, I'm talking about a physical collection of mine, but it's kinda the same thing in that neither are essential.ive_wonder wrote: »I tested how bad lootboxes as an experiment, out of maybe 25-ish lootboxes i opened in this game do you know how many mounts have i got?
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I guess i will just vote with my wallet.
Spending money only on direct purchases.
Sorry, i got carried away, anyways
Yet on one hand I have to go through hoops and loops and deal with artificial scarcity and randomness, and on the other hand I just see a piece I want, examine it, and buy it if I deem it a fine addition to my collection™.
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ive_wonder✭✭✭Here's a developer's opinion on that whole topic it seems:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnPKjm84DxI&ab_channel=JohnGaming
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »I also disagree about the battle pass. We already have a subscription or have to purchase DLCs to play them. We do not need to add another layer on top of this. Crown crates we can choose to buy or not (I choose note) but payment to play is a choice to play or go somewhere else and players like myself will leave if we have to pay a double subscription.
Literally it's the same with battle pass, you can choose to buy or not, but at least you always know that you can get those rewards and what you are getting 100%.
It doesn't nesessarily has to be a grind.
Actually, not. One has to grind, and grind, and grind for those rewards. So players know what they might get if they do enough but that is it. Also, it would obviously cost more if it gave players more instead of having them buy stuff in the crown store. This is business 101.
Basically, I fail to see a strong business case to give Zenimax a reason to consider it. They are doing just fine with the crown crates (of which my comment on that was edited out of your reply).Edited by Amottica on January 14, 2022 11:11PM0 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭Basically, I fail to see a strong business case to give Zenimax a reason to consider it. They are doing just fine with the crown crates (of which my comment on that was edited out of your reply).
Then why some other developers switched to that model?
Particularly Fortnite. Colossal sized game, which is also completely free and doesn't have any form of subscription.
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Mythgard1967✭✭✭✭✭I have no problems with the lootboxes and do in fact enjoy them. Why do you get to decide for me?
Making the argument that it triggers some people who have a gambling addiction feels unreasonable. Why should another's addiction impose on my option to purchase a lootbox? Are you saying we should ban all alcohol usage and sales because some people are alcoholics?
I don't think I agree with any of the suggestions; though I am indifferent to 2 and 6; and disagree with the rest.0 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭Mythgard1967 wrote: »I have no problems with the lootboxes and do in fact enjoy them. Why do you get to decide for me?
Making the argument that it triggers some people who have a gambling addiction feels unreasonable. Why should another's addiction impose on my option to purchase a lootbox? Are you saying we should ban all alcohol usage and sales because some people are alcoholics?
I don't think I agree with any of the suggestions; though I am indifferent to 2 and 6; and disagree with the rest.
Which part of lootboxes are you enjoying?Edited by ive_wonder on January 14, 2022 11:20PM0