The tutorials are a mess!

Panomania · January 2022

Ok, I like that you can do a bit of a "choose your own adventure" bit when you start ESO. Anything that even gives the illusion of removing more of the "theme park" elements to ESO is good! Even if we all know it is just that: an illusion!

But something along the way got messed up. I am running into more and more players who have never even touched the Main Quest in ESO. No "You're a Vestige, Harry!" Dumbledore. No Doc Oc Tharn! No Molag McDowell! No John Cleese?? How can you have any pudding if you dont have your Cleese??

So much of ESO's back story and what you go through during the game is explained and given context by the Main Quest. Initially you pretty much HAD to do the main quest! Now it's just a way to get a few more skill points and open up the Soul Magic skill line. Additionally, with the current system new players just completely bypass the starter quests for a lot of the chapters and added content. There are so many characters, story lines and history from those starter quests that many new players just never even know is there.

I think you guys need to back it up a little. Yeah, you added all these new ways to start, and thats great, but you didnt add any context. You didnt do a good job tyoing things together so newbie dont miss important content. Maybe keep the new tutorial system, remove all the tutorial elements from other quests but insert them all into a mandatory chain that introduces you to these story components. Maybe also put in something that allows you to bypass the steps for some of it if you've already completed the story on another character without going through all of the time consuming, tutorial style portions of the Main Quest.

Also, revamp them a little. Have it tie together and make sense as a whole story. And maybe add in some unique rewards you ONLY get from finishing these quests, like a unique companion, or a "starter" style that also serves to introduce newbies to the Outfit system (AKA the REAL Endgame, as my late wife used to say). Maybe toss in pointers to other intros like the Antiquities system, and the Psjijic Quests.

The biggest complaint I am hearing from new players is that there isnt a cohesive direction for new players to start from. You NEED that, and need to at least give the story of whats going on, THEN give them a dozen options to chose from. The way it's set now many dont know which way is up!

StormBlade512 · January 2022

I still think that everyone should start in coldharbour... like it's the best opening we've had in an ES game to date imo and now it's just been replaced by Balfiera which like never gets mentioned in game again lol. It's so confusing to the new players too

FluffWit · January 2022

The new tutorial system is fine imo. You could make it more obvious which is the base game but I don't think it's really neccesary.

It's all the dlc starter quests that litter the map and give absolutely no indication of what they are that's the problem. How many have we got now?..... 11 I think?

One of the worst is the one you pick up in Inns- they essentially trick newbs into picking this quest up while they're still on the starter islands. You don't have a mount, you don't have 7 pieces of armor to fill all the slots, etc. And they push you to pick up the Morrowind tutorial quest which will have you traversing the entire continent.

We keep asking them to clean this junk up- to move these 11 quest markers out of the cities and into a menu but they won't because it's in game advertising to push new players to buy the dlcs.

Blinx · January 2022

I agree with this sentiment, every new player should begin their journey in the prison, meet Lyris, and The Prophet, then once you release the Prophet, and you get seperated, then you can choose to continue the main quest , or go to your chosen chapter.

I began my ESO journey on PS4, the Elsweyr Chapter because I like cats, but it was very confusing, and half the time I didn't know what was going on, what I was doing, but the story telling was kind of fun

Fast forward 3 months later, I got game pass, and ESO(base game sans Morrowind was included ), so I figured eh lemme try this again, My character started in the prison, met Lyris, Varen. and the rest of the gang, suddenly it clicked, and made me an ESO fan.

Kwoung · January 2022

They should put a big sign over the the Main Story Quest choice with a HUGE arrow pointing to it that says "Choose this one if you want the game to make any sort of sense at all!"

Lysette · January 2022

I explore mainly on foot, because I see more of what is there this way and do not have to mount and dismount all the time as well - a horse is available at level 10 - so where is the problem actually - running a little instead of riding?- A newbies horse is not much faster than running on foot, so this is not a problem at all.

tomofhyrule · January 2022

I would like if we could have a Settings -> Activate/Deactivate Prologue Quests option. Make it so Stuga and all of her DLC friends won't spawn until I'm ready to see how long she's been looking for me. I've got about 50 other things to do Concordia, I'll help you get to Murkmire when I'm good and ready for it. And tell Alessio to pick a bar to stay in and not stalk me through the entire game.

I recently started a new character and went to Daggerfall, and I've just got quest markers all over the place. I got in the habit of looking up the questgiver on UESP just to see if it's something I should take or wait for until I'm ready for that storyline. There's just too much now. Not to mention that the Elsweyr prologue breaks the main quest since both involve Abnur.

I'm happy that we don't get "Dragons? In your own homeland?" every three minutes in Mournhold, but instead we get "Mmhyes, you are the one my mistress seeks!" every time we walk by instead.

Also for the tutorials - they shouldn't give Bleakrock/Stros/Khenarthi as options. It should be Daggerfall/Davon's/Vulkhel. If a new player goes to Stros and then does everything in the Stros-Betnikh lines, part of the plot literally is 'you have no soul.' Which... hasn't happened yet. And then they get to Daggerfall and get the quest from the Hooded Figure (assuming they can dodge all of the other prologue quest markers in their face), which sends them to Coldharbour. And then after they get Coldharbour done, they're spat right back to Stros M'kai, and now have nothing telling them where to go from there. They have to just remember there were hundreds of quest markers back in Daggerfall and make their own way back so they can pick up the rest of the MQ.

Also I miss the deprecated tutorials. I really would like if choosing to go to Vvardenfell/Summerset/Elsweyr/Skyrim would give us an option to play the missing tutorial quest. I get why they cut them since the combat tutorial is a bit more comprehensive in the new version than it was in the older ones (note: more comprehensive =/= complete), but I did like some of the areas like Deepwood Vale and quests like the alternate Morrowind escape from slavery that are no longer in game.

starkerealm · January 2022

StormBlade512 wrote: »

I still think that everyone should start in coldharbour... like it's the best opening we've had in an ES game to date imo and now it's just been replaced by Balfiera which like never gets mentioned in game again lol. It's so confusing to the new players too

It got mentioned a couple times in Glenumbra, and I think there's a reference to it in Stormhaven, but that just goes to show how forgettable those references are. (There are references to the Derenni in a lot of places, especially Glenumbra, but the game almost never connects them to Balfiera, so it's easy to miss that.)

Chips_Ahoy · January 2022

The way you write it you make new players look like idiots, like they need a leash and be guided every step they take in the game.

I've been playing for many years and I haven't finished the main story yet.

I can't stand the 5 companions, they are boring, full of bad clitches.

But that does not prevent me or make me feel lost in other stories, I liked the story of Wrothgar and also The Thieves Guild story.

As soon as you arrive in a non-DLC city, the main mission appears, it is your decision, the blue markers are for main mission, how hard can that be to understand?

Fennwitty · January 2022

There is no tutorial really.

"Hold down block 3 times!"
"Ok, hold down attack 3 times!"
"Great! You've learned all there is to know about ESO enjoy your adventures!"

starkerealm · January 2022

Fennwitty wrote: »

There is no tutorial really.
"Hold down block 3 times!"

"Ok, hold down attack 3 times!"

"Great! You've learned all there is to know about ESO enjoy your adventures!"

"I need you to interrupt the boss when it starts doing that thing, or we'll wipe."

"I don't have an interrupt slotted."

*Looks back at the tutorial, literally explaining how you can bash to interrupt.*

The tutorial does cover the bases, the problem is, no one pays attention, and the stuff you learn won't be relevant again for hundreds of hours, so people forget what they were told.

Danikat · January 2022

I like that the new tutorial leaves it totally ambiguous where you came from, what you were doing before and how you got there (other than saying you came through a portal), and that it gives you a choice of locations to go to afterwards because it works for a greater range of characters than something like the Morrowind or Greymoor tutorials where you were very specifically going to that area. I think it's also ok as a tutorial (bearing in mind a tutorial at the start of a game should be covering the basics of how to get thought a fight, not everything you need to know to perform well in end-game progression groups).

Other than that I don't like it and I agree with a lot of the problems raised in this thread. It makes the game and story very confusing for new players. At best they're left with the impression that there is no overarching story or continuity, just a lot of random stand-alone quests all jumbled together and the lore and story doesn't really matter, it's just there to give an excuse for handing out XP. At worst there's a good chance that while still new enough to not know all the options they'll be left with no direction and get 'stuck'.

For example a new player picks Khenarthi's Roost at the end of the tutorial, they go all around the island and complete it's main quest, get sent to Vulkhel Guard and will almost immediately be confronted by the Hooded Figure, who sends them through Cold Harbour and...back to Khenarthi's Roost, where they now have no quests to do and no indication of where to go next.

Personally what I would have done is kept the start of the game the same - so you see yourself being sacrificed and wake up in Coldharbour, maybe update the tutorial bits as needed, and then added a choice to the end, with the Prophet asking you where you want to go when he creates the portal. Whichever location you choose you could still get the Prophet appearing, telling you where he is and giving you the start of the main quest, but you'd also have the option to ignore it and do something different if you want to.

FluffWit wrote: »

We keep asking them to clean this junk up- to move these 11 quest markers out of the cities and into a menu but they won't because it's in game advertising to push new players to buy the dlcs.

I'm not sure it even does that. As far as I remember you don't see the quest markers over the NPCs and can't take the quests until you've already bought the DLC/chapter (or subscribed to ESO+).

Kesstryl · January 2022

Is this even necessary? Maybe some of your characters never went to Coldharbor and became the Vestige? Maybe some of them only ever dealt with whatever crisis they were born into. I have characters that never went to Coldharbor because they are involved in their own homeland (DLC) story before that chapter of their life. I think it's ok if it's out of order.

NotaDaedraWorshipper · January 2022

When they changed the tutorial I thought/hoped we would be able to do the previous chapter's tutorials, but instead they are now gone to the Void forever.

AlandroSul · January 2022

@Panomania
The problem you are referring to started with the introduction of the One Tamriel patch in 2016. Now it's 2022. Some people have been pointing out this issue for years, and since nothing has been done to mitigate it, I don't honestly think there is much point in debating it.

As a person who loves TES lore, I'm *a bit* late to the game. Started it about two weeks ago, and I knew that in order to have a coherent story I would have to use internet guides. And I'm doing just that. Otherwise, I'd have already picked up the prologue mission to Morrowind on Stros M'Kai.

But there are also a lot of people who play it as a simple MMO game, and they don't really care about the story or lore. That's the reason (IMO) why it's not going to be "fixed". With the current system you may jump directly anywhere you like, and join your friends even if they are hundreds of levels higher. That means there are more people who spend money on your game. It's all business (again, that's my opinion).

Now, don't get me wrong. I totally agree with you. It's just that there isn't any real reason for ZOS to make ESO more coherent for players who enjoy story and lore. Hell, they even removed chapter tutorials which also had their story (or so I've read). The Balfiera Island tutorial further worsens the problem, since new players don't know where they should start with their alliance story + the original Coldharbour tutorial is only activated when you visit a major city. This means that story on starter islands doesn't seem to make sense at all. Just give up trying to do anything in this matter. That's my (pessimistic) advice.

StarOfElyon · January 2022

I don't miss the old tutorials. The new one is a great improvement. I can actually pick where I want to start too.

KitLightning · January 2022

Bring back The Wailing Prison and exit players in Coldharbour, then any new player will get the story sorted and know why they are without a soul!
Currently a new player will go trough a tedious tutorial only to be presented with numerous portals that will make them very confused to enter.

Hurbster · January 2022

But we are getting a brand new portal when the chapter comes out!

Seriously, we should all start in Coldharbour.