Should ZOS Delete Pariah from Ravenwatch?

neferpitou73 · December 2021

I've noticed a few problems in Raven lately, and near the stop of that list is pariah. It makes folks super tanky, so ttk is abysmal. Because of the ruleset there are none of the usual counters to it like Balorgh (even though pariah is a proc set and shouldn't be in Raven either). It's gotten to the point that I've literally seen entire zergs/groups running it (including mine, just because it's a disadvantage not to). The result is that literally every fight turning into a slug-fest where the side who brings the most numbers wins. Which is obviously not fun if you don't have the numbers.

I'd personally like to see it removed, despite the fact that I use it. Simply because it's not good for the health of the campaign.

DrSlaughtr · December 2021

My theory is they only allowed it there because without CP the TTK would be crazy low. So they gifted pariah.

techyeshic · December 2021

I think they need to re-evaluate what they are doing in the No-CP, No-"proc" campaign all together. There is a list of sets that work with no official mention of what should or shouldn't be working. It now is a convaluted ruleset for a game with a non-uniform set of rules across game modes. We have no-CP with noProcs where some procs work while others dont' then no CP BGs that allow all procs; then anything goes as far as CP and gear. Then all of the Cyrodiil campaigns have different rules on faction locks.

neferpitou73 · December 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

My theory is they only allowed it there because without CP the TTK would be crazy low. So they gifted pariah.

In my limited experience with the CP campaign ttk is actually lower than in No-CP right now.

DrSlaughtr · December 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

My theory is they only allowed it there because without CP the TTK would be crazy low. So they gifted pariah.

In my limited experience with the CP campaign ttk is actually lower than in No-CP right now.

Oh buddy it's not. TTK in CP is highest it's been in a year for 75% of players.

gameswithaspoon · December 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

My theory is they only allowed it there because without CP the TTK would be crazy low. So they gifted pariah.

Pariah is the replacement to the past health recovery meta. And the slug fests such as they are, resolve faster than when everyone wore earthgore.

What I like about the current meta for Ravenwatch is that it’s accessible to anyone who just bought the game. The dominant defensive set is a basic zone set and the dominant offensive is craftable, and neither have a complicated mechanic to proc.

gariondavey · December 2021

More pen, I have no issues killing people in ravenwatch....I run around with 20k pen.
Hope this helps!

Fidget1302 · December 2021

gariondavey wrote: »

More pen, I have no issues killing people in ravenwatch....I run around with 20k pen.
Hope this helps!

So true. Have you tried running a stam toon in Ravenwatch with the Onslaught ultimate? I'm assuming it would bypass the base resistances as well as the resists gained from the Pariah set, but this is ZoS we're talking about and lord only knows what they coded and didn't code for something like that, lol.

edward_frigidhands · December 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

I've noticed a few problems in Raven lately, and near the stop of that list is pariah. It makes folks super tanky, so ttk is abysmal. Because of the ruleset there are none of the usual counters to it like Balorgh (even though pariah is a proc set and shouldn't be in Raven either). It's gotten to the point that I've literally seen entire zergs/groups running it (including mine, just because it's a disadvantage not to). The result is that literally every fight turning into a slug-fest where the side who brings the most numbers wins. Which is obviously not fun if you don't have the numbers.

I'd personally like to see it removed, despite the fact that I use it. Simply because it's not good for the health of the campaign.

I feel like if Pariah is the sole reason someone is surviving in pvp then there is a skill issue. The set really isn't that great.

Waylander07 · December 2021

I have yet to meet a player in Ravenwatch who seems unkillable unlike in Gray Host. The only problem I have seen is uneven numbers where one faction dominates (depends on the time which one )and low pop.

Luede · December 2021

I also think that the TTK on Ravenwatch is ok. I recently played on CP and you really have to work hard to die there

Tommy_The_Gun · December 2021

Tbh. There are things that I don't understand in no proc "allowed sets" list.

Nothing against or for Pariah set (not using it & it is not a part of my no cp set up), but I don't understand why it is on a "no-proc" list. If Pariah works, there are many other sets that should work too, but for some reason they don't.

The rules for the no cp campaign sets are extremely inconsistent. It looks to me like it is not about what is a proc sets or not, but rather what sets have more of an impact on server-side calculations.

Minno · December 2021

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh. There are things that I don't understand in no proc "allowed sets" list.

Nothing against or for Pariah set (not using it & it is not a part of my no cp set up), but I don't understand why it is on a "no-proc" list. If Pariah works, there are many other sets that should work too, but for some reason they don't.

The rules for the no cp campaign sets are extremely inconsistent. It looks to me like it is not about what is a proc sets or not, but rather what sets have more of an impact on server-side calculations.

It's a hole in the ruleset. Reason why some MMOs don't usually balance pvp separate from pve is because when you do you end up opening more issues than it fixes.

They should make CP for everything if they are gonna lock pvp according to sets. And if they are going to allow Pariah, they should allow other mitigation sets. I listed the defense sets and their defensive ratings in the mitigation thread over in the pvp combat section so you can see just how close 19kavg resist with a block backbar is to pariah.

My guess why they added it wasnt for arbitrary rulesets or for fun, but because 19k avg resists with a blockbackbar or slotting flare was over-performing. But instead of nerfing two mitigation sources that require skillful timing, there are players that can't block (and that is ok, good MMO design should allow potential for dad-gamer builds to thrive.)

There are also mitigation sets with heavy downsides to their procs, either by strict cooldowns, or attached negative debuffs (like pirate skeleton). So it definitely doesnt make sense.

Minno · December 2021

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

I've noticed a few problems in Raven lately, and near the stop of that list is pariah. It makes folks super tanky, so ttk is abysmal. Because of the ruleset there are none of the usual counters to it like Balorgh (even though pariah is a proc set and shouldn't be in Raven either). It's gotten to the point that I've literally seen entire zergs/groups running it (including mine, just because it's a disadvantage not to). The result is that literally every fight turning into a slug-fest where the side who brings the most numbers wins. Which is obviously not fun if you don't have the numbers.

I'd personally like to see it removed, despite the fact that I use it. Simply because it's not good for the health of the campaign.

I feel like if Pariah is the sole reason someone is surviving in pvp then there is a skill issue. The set really isn't that great.

The set is still strong. But they nerfed impen by 50% across the board and increased penetration sources. So what was getting 30-40% mitigation rating is now hitting 23%. To put into perspective, back before the nerf to raw armor/impen, transmutation was around 21-22%, now its around 15-16%, so pariah is where transmutation was in 2017-2019 and back then trans was a phenomenal set in terms of what it offered.

Minno · December 2021

gariondavey wrote: »

More pen, I have no issues killing people in ravenwatch....I run around with 20k pen.
Hope this helps!

20k drops pariah to 22% for my sheet. Though I had 16k pen set for the dmg dealer.

triple dmg sets with block weapon backbar or front still dominant. Can get 61% rating that way.

olsborg · December 2021

Sure pariah is a "problem" set, but healing is also way too strong now, specificly speaking for templars, dks and necros. (imo)

PvP_Exploiter · December 2021

Get rid of "no-proc".

The only additions they made were all defensive sets and everyone is running around as a tank.

Or at least better define sets and only disable sets that do damage.

Clever Alch, Bloodspawn, Powerful Assault etc are fine.
What people wanted rid of is Caluurions, Syvarra's Scales, Unleashed Terror etc

gariondavey · December 2021

Fidget1302 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

More pen, I have no issues killing people in ravenwatch....I run around with 20k pen.
Hope this helps!

So true. Have you tried running a stam toon in Ravenwatch with the Onslaught ultimate? I'm assuming it would bypass the base resistances as well as the resists gained from the Pariah set, but this is ZoS we're talking about and lord only knows what they coded and didn't code for something like that, lol.

Yes it bypasses all of that

Modzcs · December 2021

thats why raven is dead ...95% of raven players are full tanks now...no procs+pariah is very bad experience for me..i cant gank, i cant bomb, i cant survive without pariah as magblade:S...i left raven. bgs is very nice place for me now

Kwoung · January 2022

Can't speak for no-cp, but on CP TTK for tanks can be measured in decades, to the point you just ignore them and simply move on. Siege is cheap enough and easy enough to put out when on fire, you just wait for them to burn it, move along and then put it out or toss another down. Truly I don't understand the draw to that type of play, but there are certainly a lot of them. Ran into a whole tank group a few weeks ago, now that was actually kind of dangerous even with their abysmal damage... as it does add up and taking them down was neigh impossible.