The issues related to logging in to the European PC/Mac megaserver have been resolved at this time. If you continue to experience difficulties at login, please restart your client. Thank you for your patience!
My thoughts on the recent outrage about ESO's monetization practices
-
RicAlmighty✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »
Where is that 99% is coming from?
Is it that hard to imagine that monetization can be more consumer friendly?
And that there are games that already have better monetization schemes?
The 99% is coming from simply looking around. Go take a look at the top 20 video games by revenue. If they have a micro-transaction store, it is almost certainly being run this way.
You are looking at this strictly from a player perspective, which is natural and understood. But cash shops are not created to be generous or friendly to players, they are created to maximize revenue, and if that means that 20% of the player base is catered to while 80% is not, then that's ok, because 20% of the players will generate 80% of the revenue anyway so it doesn't really matter. Like I've said earlier in this thread, I am not defending this practice, nor am I in favor of it. But to pretend it doesn't exist for a very specific reason is just fooling yourself. They aren't "misguided" or "mistaken", they know precisely what they are doing and why they are doing it.Content Pass is not the answer. It is a question, the answer is No.0 -
RicAlmighty✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »Where? Give us some examples
FFXIV, Fortnite, Warframe, Fall Guys, Gwent, League of legends, Path of Exile
I'm not really sure how you believe these games have "consumer friendly" monetization but they don't. Especially Warframe which has just as poor monetization as any other game does. Riot hasn't done much better recently, I've already mentioned Fortnite, Gwent has like 50 players and FFXIV is subscription only (trial notwithstanding), so they have a revenue stream there in addition to the cash shop. I'm not really sure what else to tell you, but it seems there's not much point in continuing if this is what you believe.
Have a great day.Edited by RicAlmighty on December 29, 2021 5:44PMContent Pass is not the answer. It is a question, the answer is No.1 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭RicAlmighty wrote: »ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »Where? Give us some examples
FFXIV, Fortnite, Warframe, Fall Guys, Gwent, League of legends, Path of Exile
I'm not really sure how you believe these games have "consumer friendly" monetization but they don't. I'm not really sure what else to tell you, but it seems there's not much point in continuing if this is what you believe.
Have a great day.
The point wasn’t that they had “consumer friendly” monitization the point they are better than ESO in terms of being consumer friendly, you missed the point entirely
4 -
RicAlmighty✭✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »Where? Give us some examples
FFXIV, Fortnite, Warframe, Fall Guys, Gwent, League of legends, Path of Exile
I'm not really sure how you believe these games have "consumer friendly" monetization but they don't. I'm not really sure what else to tell you, but it seems there's not much point in continuing if this is what you believe.
Have a great day.
The point wasn’t that they had “consumer friendly” monitization the point they are better than ESO in terms of being consumer friendly, you missed the point entirely
So, they are "better" than a non-consumer-friendly monetization store, but they are still not consumer friendly. Ok, fair enough. Thanks.Content Pass is not the answer. It is a question, the answer is No.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »ive_wonder wrote: »I think no way it's "unfortunate for some players" it's just flat "consumer = lose, company = win" type of situation.
How does the consumer lose by purchasing something they want? This is no different than any retail business. The consumer only loses if they spend more than they can afford.
I don't see anyone telling department stores to stop having sales because some consumers lack self control and rack up huge credit card debt. How is this any different?
It's not about sales.
If we take example with department store, we surprisingly will find out that only 1/4 of the store is filled with items.
You want to buy, lets say, house for your cat, you ask the shopkeeper.
Shopkeeper mysteriously winking and smiling answers: "Oh, it's not available right now, and who knows when will it be available."
How is the crown store having limited time offers any different from department stores doing the same?
How is ZoS responsible for players using bad judgement and spending more than they can afford because they just have to have this item before it goes away? This is a self control problem.
Limited time offers aren't exclusive to the crown store. This is very common in retail sales and there is nothing wrong with it. The consumer needs to monitor their own spending habits.Edited by SilverBride on December 29, 2021 5:55PMPCNA4 -
Jeffrey530✭✭✭✭FlopsyPrince wrote: »A few people have asserted that ZOS will make ESO better and pay its devs better if they make more money.
Those people need to do some research and see that the two things do not have a direct connection.
Some companies may pay more when they can afford it, but most will just push the profits up instead, since they are publicly owned and thus want maximum income. Paying more for devs and development works against that.
Has anyone seen anything where ZOS said they would give everyone a raise if they sell more Crown Store items? What do you base your beliefs on for this view otherwise?
Lmao supporting the devs and the game doesn't necessarily mean there needs to be a literal raise in their pay whenever someone purchase a single crown store item. Yes they may as well be contracted and get a certain amount each month, but if the game makes more money it is an indication to the board/stakeholders they are doing a good job no? Perhaps it will help their career, keep the servers on longer so we can play and they have a job.
Why is it even an argument that more people paying more in any game is better or worse for the devs? They make games for profit after all.1 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭RicAlmighty wrote: »So, they are "better" than a non-consumer-friendly monetization store, but they are still not consumer friendly. Ok, fair enough. Thanks.
You asked for examples of games with better monetization, i gave them to you.
Yes, i think what those games provide and how they provide it is done better.
No lootboxes. Many more opportunities to actually buy what you desire.
0 -
RicAlmighty✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »So, they are "better" than a non-consumer-friendly monetization store, but they are still not consumer friendly. Ok, fair enough. Thanks.
You asked for examples of games with better monetization, i gave them to you.
Yes, i think what those games provide and how they provide it is done better.
No lootboxes. Many more opportunities to actually buy what you desire.
I disagree with your examples and provided evidence as to why.
Each of those games still has (as you've admitted) non-consumer-friendly monetization and still apply the basic principle as ESO does, albeit perhaps at a different scale.
There are Lootboxes in Warframe.
There are Lootboxes in League of Legends.
There are Lootboxes in Path of Exile
There are lootboxes in FFXIV. You buy them with seals instead, so the currency is time rather than cash
Anyway, we've gone back and forth on this for too long, I will take my leave from this thread.Edited by RicAlmighty on December 29, 2021 6:12PMContent Pass is not the answer. It is a question, the answer is No.1 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »From the Xbox Game Studios Loot Box Policies page:
1. Players always receive fair value. Players will receive a fair minimum value for all loot box purchases in our games. Every loot box will provide a virtual item that has an in-game worth or value equal to or greater than the amount paid.
2. Items in loot boxes can always be earned through play. All items available through paid loot boxes in our games will also be available through unpaid opportunity by gameplay (i.e. grinding).
3. Content probability disclosure. Where loot box items are offered for purchase within our games, players will be told the probability of obtaining each category of possible items (e.g. 80% for a “common” item, 15% for a “rare” item, and 5% for an “epic” item).
4. Purchase disclosures. Our games will disclose, at the point of purchase or download, that they offer in-game purchases.
5. No pay to play in premium games. For purchased-to-own games, players will not be required to make additional purchases to play the base game. Expansions, DLC, and special content may require additional purchase.
Pretty sure the only one missing here is #3.ive_wonder wrote: »If we take example with department store, we surprisingly will find out that only 1/4 of the store is filled with items.
You want to buy, lets say, house for your cat, you ask the shopkeeper.
Shopkeeper mysteriously winking and smiling answers: "Oh, it's not available right now, and who knows when will it be available."
"Sorry, that's out of stock right now, don't know when we'll get more." or "we only sell those around <season>" are things I've normally heard in IRL stores. Nothing mysterious or strange about them.ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »Where? Give us some examples
FFXIV, Fortnite, Warframe, Fall Guys, Gwent, League of legends, Path of Exile
Not much experience with most of those, but PoE is horrible. Endless piles of stuff you need to store, and selling all those bank pages to hold them? Plenty of super-expensive cosmetics. Lootboxes that give you trash. Etc. Not a whole lot to praise there. (I've been playing on and off since there were only 3 acts, and yes, I have about half a dozen bank tabs of various types.)1 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Not much experience with most of those, but PoE is horrible. Endless piles of stuff you need to store, and selling all those bank pages to hold them? Plenty of super-expensive cosmetics. Lootboxes that give you trash. Etc. Not a whole lot to praise there. (I've been playing on and off since there were only 3 acts, and yes, I have about half a dozen bank tabs of various types.)
Tbh the only game on a list that i never experienced myself, just saw it on some website as a game with good microtransaction model, so oops.
0 -
Charon_on_Vacation✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »Charon_on_Vacation wrote: »the real difference is, those in-game items have no necessity of being time limited. there is no limiting factor that rl items have. they can be distributed endlessly without any issue at all.
the only reason they are limited is to pressure people into buying. that is all.ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »ive_wonder wrote: »
Given that item is becoming available to buy only once a year, how many potential consumers missing the opportunity to buy said item?
A few for sure, but they are dwarfed by the number of consumers who do actually purchase the item. The system will never be perfect, it cannot be. They need to cater to one faction or the other, the casual buyers or the hardcore buyers. It's pretty clear which one they would lean towards.
Just to be clear, I do not support this practice personally and I'd prefer they be a little more accessible with purchasable content, but this model has been proven to work and people who claim that Zos would make more money by offering all items at once simply do not understand how human psychology works. There are entire teams of PhDs that study these things and derive the optimal formula for optimizing sell through. The best thing you can do if you disagree with the model is not to buy things occasionally. it's to not buy things at all.
I disagree with "dwarfed by the number of consumers who do actually purchase the item."
Sound kinda absurd that weekly sales could outweight the yearly sales.
Also, even if they wanted to use FOMO, why wouldn't they just adopt Fortnite shop model for example?
Clearly it brings more money to make content available more often.
you know this whole FOMO topic is researched by a lot of people and there are several studies on it?
you disagree, that is fine, but its basically like saying "bayer has no clue about aspirin, their formula is wrong! they should listen to me and use my formula!".
i mean, if you are really an expert in the field, much more knowledgeable than anyone else, go ahead, change it and become rich over night.
Then why WoW, FFXIV still making tons of money from their cash shop without having a rotating stock.
And why Fortnite making gazillion more with having much more frequent store rotations.
I think if you look at todays market you find a lot of examples of far better monetization then what we have currently.
because there are different models.
its not like the model ESO uses is the only one, but it is the one zos decided to use because of what they want to achieve / is best (most profitable) in regards to their consumer base.
its not different than having a sub model or a f2p model. they are meant for different audiences / meant to achieve different things.
the reason why you can play the first 60? levels for free in ff14 is a different reason as to why you can play eso for free, after you bought the game.
you see, one of the biggest reasons to go b2p for eso was, that they needed players to fill the world.
not to play the game, but to make the world feel alive, so whales are more interested in spending money.
whales need a healthy amount of players so they will spend money.
they need audience to show off all their stuff.
theres a quite derogative term in the industry for b2p/f2p players, which is coined by the only use they have for the company.
which is keeping whales interested.
just to be clear here, that is not an eso exclusive thing and the devs themselves are not responsible for it.Edited by Charon_on_Vacation on December 29, 2021 6:15PM0 -
PrimusTiberius✭✭✭✭AuraStorm43 wrote: »PrimusTiberius wrote: »AuraStorm43 wrote: »PrimusTiberius wrote: »my .02, Crown store is all cosmetic, I couldn't care less..... can't afford it, don't get it, think its too much, don't get it.
on a side note, we all see lots of people complaining about the high cost of crown store items but no one has a problem charging high gold prices for their merchant items, funny how that works...haha
I wish there were more in game achievements that you could show off (housing trophies)...now that's something to work (grind) for.
Cheers,
Its not all cosmetic there’s quite a few non cosmetic items on there, some of which take advantage of new players
for example?
Do i really need to break down all the items that aren’t cosmetic on the crown store? Just look at the upgrade tab
that might help your argument, what items in the upgrade tab give advantage over new players? A collectors pack? bank space upgrade? the new armory assistant? or maybe you're referring to the skyshards?
Everyone is going in one direction, I'm going the other direction1 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭RicAlmighty wrote: »
I disagree with your examples and provided evidence as to why.
Each of those games still has (as you've admitted) non-consumer-friendly monetization and still apply the basic principle as ESO does, albeit perhaps at a different scale.
There are Lootboxes in Warframe.
There are Lootboxes in League of Legends.
There are Lootboxes in Path of Exile
There are lootboxes in FFXIV. You buy them with seals instead, so the currency is time rather than cash
Anyway, we've gone back and forth on this for too long, I will take my leave from this thread.
No one buys Warframe lootboxes, you get tons of relics and mods just from playing the game, most income is coming from direct cosmetics purchases.
League of legends, i guess they have it, but they also have huge selection of character skins that are available for direct purchase.
Don't know about Path of Exile.
I pretend that i haven't seen anything what you wrote about FFXIV lootboxes.
0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »ive_wonder wrote: »Yes, cosmetics, housing, etc... is a big thing and something many MMO players care about and will spend $$$ on. What is the sense of having a great housing/decorating system, when you only sell a few homes a year and most of your customers don't stick around long enough to even see a minute portion of them come available?
If they don't stick around for long enough, why do they even need it then?- The problem is less the way, in which it is offered, but a lack of self-control. Nothing of that is important, if you don't play the game or not often enough. You don't need it, you might want it, but you don't need it - if it is offered, fine, you might eventually get it, but if not, then why care, if you won't be there for long enough anyway.
Getting the desired item is a big reason to stick around through. It generates satisfaction opposed to frustration from realisation that you need to wait for a huge chunk of time before you will be able to get specific items.
Also in this scenario even if player don't stick around after buying the item, company still gets the money.
not necessarily for the item though - I get nearly all of my crowns from subscription, so if I buy something with those or not is not important for the company, they have the money anyway for the service provided with ESO+ - and part of this service is that I can choose what to do or get with those crowns - if what I would want, is not available, I get something else to enjoy it now - because if there will be a "later", who knows - I could get incredibly sick and unable to play - so better something enjoyable now than to wait for something, what might or might not ever happen.
So from what i read in the end it's better to spend crowns on something now then to wait for something, what might or might not ever happen.
So waiting for the content isn't the best feeling you can experience, as a customer.
Honestly, i still don't get it.
How much more they could do, knowing that there are a lot of people, that tend to collect ingame content, if store content was available all at once, or at least was available more frequently it would be far easier for playerbase to plan their budgets and gradually buy everything it has to offer.
There are a lot of people that throwing money at the monitor but nothing happening. Because items are unavailable.
Yeah, it is artificially creating "limited" content, which is actually there in abundance - making it more special this way - it is a marketing decision, to get people to buy it "now", where it is available - often offering it before people get their next salary, so this is their way to avoid that most have this item, and that it still feels somewhat special to own it.1 -
Malthorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭RicAlmighty wrote: »
There are lootboxes in FFXIV. You buy them with seals instead, so the currency is time rather than .ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »So, they are "better" than a non-consumer-friendly monetization store, but they are still not consumer friendly. Ok, fair enough. Thanks.
You asked for examples of games with better monetization, i gave them to you.
Yes, i think what those games provide and how they provide it is done better.
No lootboxes. Many more opportunities to actually buy what you desire.
Imagine comparing a currency acquired in large quantities through normal gameplay(Grand company seals in FFXIV) to the [snip] monetization practices of random loot crates.
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2021 1:46PM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RicAlmighty wrote: »
There are lootboxes in FFXIV. You buy them with seals instead, so the currency is time rather than .ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »So, they are "better" than a non-consumer-friendly monetization store, but they are still not consumer friendly. Ok, fair enough. Thanks.
You asked for examples of games with better monetization, i gave them to you.
Yes, i think what those games provide and how they provide it is done better.
No lootboxes. Many more opportunities to actually buy what you desire.
Imagine comparing a currency acquired in large quantities through normal gameplay(Grand company seals in FFXIV) to the [snip] monetization practices of random loot crates.
True. You are flooded with company seals. But you have to pay a monthly fee to even play that game. So I would much prefer having optional loot boxes on the side players can choose to buy instead of requiring everyone to pay upfront. That is so long as the game doesn't drop in quality as a result. And I haven't seen any evidence that's the case with ESO.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2021 1:46PM0 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭RicAlmighty wrote: »
There are lootboxes in FFXIV. You buy them with seals instead, so the currency is time rather than .ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »So, they are "better" than a non-consumer-friendly monetization store, but they are still not consumer friendly. Ok, fair enough. Thanks.
You asked for examples of games with better monetization, i gave them to you.
Yes, i think what those games provide and how they provide it is done better.
No lootboxes. Many more opportunities to actually buy what you desire.
Imagine comparing a currency acquired in large quantities through normal gameplay(Grand company seals in FFXIV) to the [snip] monetization practices of random loot crates.
True. You are flooded with company seals. But you have to pay a monthly fee to even play that game. So I would much prefer having optional loot boxes on the side players can choose to buy instead of requiring everyone to pay upfront. That is so long as the game doesn't drop in quality as a result. And I haven't seen any evidence that's the case with ESO.
And yet again. Games can survive without lootboxes.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2021 1:47PM4 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »
There are lootboxes in FFXIV. You buy them with seals instead, so the currency is time rather than .ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »So, they are "better" than a non-consumer-friendly monetization store, but they are still not consumer friendly. Ok, fair enough. Thanks.
You asked for examples of games with better monetization, i gave them to you.
Yes, i think what those games provide and how they provide it is done better.
No lootboxes. Many more opportunities to actually buy what you desire.
Imagine comparing a currency acquired in large quantities through normal gameplay(Grand company seals in FFXIV) to the [snip] monetization practices of random loot crates.
True. You are flooded with company seals. But you have to pay a monthly fee to even play that game. So I would much prefer having optional loot boxes on the side players can choose to buy instead of requiring everyone to pay upfront. That is so long as the game doesn't drop in quality as a result. And I haven't seen any evidence that's the case with ESO.
And yet again. Games can survive without lootboxes.
Sure, they can survive. But would they be as profitable? Unlikely, which means less money for development.
Loot boxes are only a legitimate issue for people with gambling addictions. Everyone else who wastes a lot of money on them likely just has too much money anyway. So I don't see anything wrong with letting rich people waste their money on the game if they choose to because that benefits the average player, just so long as they are merely cosmetic or only mildly convenient.
If you don't like loot boxes, then don't buy them. It really is that simple. And people with addictions should probably just avoid the crown store all together (and all venues of gambling for that matter).
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2021 1:48PM3 -
Mythgard1967✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »
There are lootboxes in FFXIV. You buy them with seals instead, so the currency is time rather than .ive_wonder wrote: »RicAlmighty wrote: »So, they are "better" than a non-consumer-friendly monetization store, but they are still not consumer friendly. Ok, fair enough. Thanks.
You asked for examples of games with better monetization, i gave them to you.
Yes, i think what those games provide and how they provide it is done better.
No lootboxes. Many more opportunities to actually buy what you desire.
Imagine comparing a currency acquired in large quantities through normal gameplay(Grand company seals in FFXIV) to the [snip] monetization practices of random loot crates.
True. You are flooded with company seals. But you have to pay a monthly fee to even play that game. So I would much prefer having optional loot boxes on the side players can choose to buy instead of requiring everyone to pay upfront. That is so long as the game doesn't drop in quality as a result. And I haven't seen any evidence that's the case with ESO.
And yet again. Games can survive without lootboxes.
Survive???? Sure. But this is a business. The objective is not to survive; its to have a profitable business. If it is not profitable and you are only surviving...why do it???? That's a horrible business model. Actually; that's not a business model...
And you can't compare FFXIV; a subscription games cash shop...it is not a just comparison as they have different needs....unless I misunderstand and you are actually advocating for ESO to become a subscription based game only and reduce the cash shop???? I can get behind that too. Then it can be just like FFXIV and everyone has the opportunity to look as sparkly as they wish!!!
And you seriously compared this to PoE???? with PoE being favorable????? This invalidates any point you are trying to make. I have spent way way way more cash on lootboxes in PoE....not only do they have rotating lootboxes...but they even have items that require you to keep gambling so you can combine rewards into new rewards...so even if you get everything...you really want dupes.....oh and only one character can wear them at a time.......but if you are willing to wait to the following league, you can totes buy the items for a large cash investment...but then there are sparkly more loot boxes.....and you think the craftbag is less comparable to the stash space?????????? You have to buy real life cash items in PoE to manage a stash due to the large amount of drops.....and lord help you if you play league AND standard....pretty sure I have several hundred remove only standard tabs now...how many different stash tabs do they have now so that you can actually store the gimmichy mechanic items?????? 10?? maybe 15???
You be crazy if you think PoE is so much better at being consumer friendly monetization.....I will give you FFXIV though....though ESO would probably have to go subscription based to be FFXIV like. I have no issues paying a subscription because I have been playing MMOs since all of them were a subscription AND you had to pay for internet by the hour (there was no low monthly rate)...its why I pay for ESO+....ESO provides me entertainment...I pay my subscription in ESO+....and I look at what I get in perks as honestly...a bonus. I pay for ESO+ to be able to enjoy playing ESO so it can live on perpetuity and not merely...survive.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 31, 2021 1:49PM2 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭
Sure, they can survive. But would they be as profitable? Unlikely, which means less money for development.
Loot boxes are only a legitimate issue for people with gambling addictions. Everyone else who wastes a lot of money on them likely just has too much money anyway. So I don't see anything wrong with letting rich people waste their money on the game if they choose to because that benefits the average player, just so long as they are merely cosmetic or only mildly convenient.
If you don't like loot boxes, then don't buy them. It really is that simple. And people with addictions should probably just avoid the crown store all together (and all venues of gambling for that matter).
Let me rephrase. Games can be as profitable without lootboxes.
How exactly it benefits the average player if game content (fashion is true endgame after all) is only available to those who are willing to overpay for it.
It would benefit the average player if pricing was adequate and players could just purchase what they want.
Yep, it's not generating the money out of thin air, but at least it's fair play.
0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »How exactly it benefits the average player if game content (fashion is true endgame after all) is only available to those who are willing to overpay for it.
It would benefit the average player if pricing was adequate and players could just purchase what they want.
Yep, it's not generating the money out of thin air, but at least it's fair play.
I'd like to be able to purchase what I want too, but some things are out of my price range so I don't get them.
Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity, and some players can afford to indulge themselves more than others.PCNA2 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »ive_wonder wrote: »How exactly it benefits the average player if game content (fashion is true endgame after all) is only available to those who are willing to overpay for it.
It would benefit the average player if pricing was adequate and players could just purchase what they want.
Yep, it's not generating the money out of thin air, but at least it's fair play.
I'd like to be able to purchase what I want too, but some things are out of my price range so I don't get them.
Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity, and some players can afford to indulge themselves more than others.
Gaming never was a luxury as in "i own 2 yachts and a mansion" and i honestly hope it will never become like that, it just feels wrong. *cough* Star Citizen *cough*0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »ive_wonder wrote: »How exactly it benefits the average player if game content (fashion is true endgame after all) is only available to those who are willing to overpay for it.
It would benefit the average player if pricing was adequate and players could just purchase what they want.
Yep, it's not generating the money out of thin air, but at least it's fair play.
I'd like to be able to purchase what I want too, but some things are out of my price range so I don't get them.
Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity, and some players can afford to indulge themselves more than others.
Gaming never was a luxury as in "i own 2 yachts and a mansion" and i honestly hope it will never become like that
It's doesn't mean "mansions & yachts". It means things you don't need to survive. Entertainment, going out to dinner, designer clothes instead of just basic. . . these are all luxuries.
Gaming is a luxury, you don't need it.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »ive_wonder wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Gaming is a luxury, not a necessity, and some players can afford to indulge themselves more than others.
Gaming never was a luxury as in "i own 2 yachts and a mansion" and i honestly hope it will never become like that
It's doesn't mean "mansions & yachts". It means things you don't need to survive. Entertainment, going out to dinner, designer clothes instead of just basic. . . these are all luxuries.
Gaming is a luxury, you don't need it.
Exactly.
Now I firmly believe that entertainment and fun are necessary for our mental well being, and ESO provides both without ever having to even visit the crown store.
Is it really that difficult to have fun without all the over the top skins and mounts and emotes? I have none of these and I thoroughly enjoy this game.PCNA2 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
Exactly.
Now I firmly believe that entertainment and fun are necessary for our mental well being, and ESO provides both without ever having to even visit the crown store.
Is it really that difficult to have fun without all the over the top skins and mounts and emotes? I have none of these and I thoroughly enjoy this game.
I'm not planning to have it all either, i just want to be able to buy house that i want whenever i have spare cash.
As i described earlier right now im sitting on 21k crowns and waiting for the notable house i will like to be available for purchase. Since i'm planning for my endgame to revolve around housing.
So basically i paid real money and i got nothing out of it immediatly, it is not ... the best feeling.
I would also very much like to buy some house guests, M'aiq and Naryu, i missed both and who know when will they become available again.
On a plus side i noticed crown store exclusive furniture mostly are direct purchases, welp, that is good.
Edited by ive_wonder on December 30, 2021 12:21AM0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »I'm not planning to have it all either, i just want to be able to buy house that i want whenever i have spare cash.
As i described earlier right now im sitting on 21k crowns and waiting for the notable house i will like to be available for purchase. Since i'm planning for my endgame to revolve around housing.
So basically i paid real money and i got nothing out of it immediatly, it is not ... the best feeling.
I would also very much like to buy some house guests, M'aiq and Naryu, i missed both and who know when will they become available again.
On a plus side i noticed crown store exclusive furniture mostly are direct purchases, welp, that is good.
We all love instant gratification but it's not always possible.
I saved all my crowns from ESO+ for over 6 months so I could purchase my first house furnished. I didn't have the gold to just buy it that way and wanted furnished because I didn't know many furniture recipes and didn't have to gold to buy from others. So I waited and got it when I could.
I know this isn't the exact situation as yours, but waiting is waiting. I waited several months while I saved up crowns, and you are waiting for the product to come back on the market.PCNA0 -
ive_wonder✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
We all love instant gratification but it's not always possible.
I saved all my crowns from ESO+ for over 6 months so I could purchase my first house furnished. I didn't have the gold to just buy it that way and wanted furnished because I didn't know many furniture recipes and didn't have to gold to buy from others. So I waited and got it when I could.
I know this isn't the exact situation as yours, but waiting is waiting. I waited several months while I saved up crowns, and you are waiting for the product to come back on the market.
But it could be possible! And that is what upsets me. That's why i am thinking, if they are truly hunting for "whales" as some people say, wouldn't be it easier to make all houses available to buy at all times (except for event ones, hallowenn, new day etc), they would just buy the whole stock in an instant or in a span of a few month.
0 -
FlopsyPrince✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Jeffrey530 wrote: »FlopsyPrince wrote: »A few people have asserted that ZOS will make ESO better and pay its devs better if they make more money.
Those people need to do some research and see that the two things do not have a direct connection.
Some companies may pay more when they can afford it, but most will just push the profits up instead, since they are publicly owned and thus want maximum income. Paying more for devs and development works against that.
Has anyone seen anything where ZOS said they would give everyone a raise if they sell more Crown Store items? What do you base your beliefs on for this view otherwise?
Lmao supporting the devs and the game doesn't necessarily mean there needs to be a literal raise in their pay whenever someone purchase a single crown store item. Yes they may as well be contracted and get a certain amount each month, but if the game makes more money it is an indication to the board/stakeholders they are doing a good job no? Perhaps it will help their career, keep the servers on longer so we can play and they have a job.
Why is it even an argument that more people paying more in any game is better or worse for the devs? They make games for profit after all.
Study business more. More income does not mean higher salaries in far too many cases.
They could double the Crown Store income and still pay people the same. Why would they have to pay more?
That is a fact across many types of businesses. It doesn't mean companies are evil, that is just the way things work. Few companies will pay more for anything if they don't have to do that.PC
PS4/PS50 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ive_wonder wrote: »
Sure, they can survive. But would they be as profitable? Unlikely, which means less money for development.
Loot boxes are only a legitimate issue for people with gambling addictions. Everyone else who wastes a lot of money on them likely just has too much money anyway. So I don't see anything wrong with letting rich people waste their money on the game if they choose to because that benefits the average player, just so long as they are merely cosmetic or only mildly convenient.
If you don't like loot boxes, then don't buy them. It really is that simple. And people with addictions should probably just avoid the crown store all together (and all venues of gambling for that matter).
Let me rephrase. Games can be as profitable without lootboxes.
How exactly it benefits the average player if game content (fashion is true endgame after all) is only available to those who are willing to overpay for it.
It would benefit the average player if pricing was adequate and players could just purchase what they want.
Yep, it's not generating the money out of thin air, but at least it's fair play.
I doubt they could be as profitable without at least some form of a loot box. Because what else could they do that would entice rich people to waste lots of cash trying to get their rare magical unicorn? There is a reason so many games do this sort of thing, and that reason is because it's highly profitable. There's always some rich guy or gal who will blow thousands of dollars to have that one unique toy.
At least ESO isn't like BDO, where the gambling is incorporated into the actual armor/weapon upgrade systems. On the contrary: spending lots of cash in ESO won't give you a significant advantage over others in terms of gameplay. So that's why I'm fine with it, and even think it's probably in all our best interests because it means more money for development costs.
But even if you consider that "fashion" is the endgame, there are plenty of cool houses and furniture you can acquire without having to spend crowns. Though honestly I would support making all housing and furniture available through regular means. So I'm with you there. But I'm not sure what that has to do with loot boxes specifically.Edited by Jeremy on December 30, 2021 6:46AM1