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New Terms of Service
Singular
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Ok, first I like this game and don't mind paying for it.
Second, what the [snip] is up with forcing us to sign a new Terms of Service by making the game that we paid for inaccessible until we do? [snip] What if I bought this game b/c I agreed to the original contract, but not this one? Will Zenmax refund my purchase?
Third - despite what is written in the forced user agreement, Zenmax is unable to curtail my rights to lawsuits, juries and so on, despite that you are forcing me to sign this. If anyone goes to court over this product - and I can't imagine anyone doing that - the part purporting to curtail our rights to certain kinds of legal representation wouldn't hold up in court. So...not sure why it's there.
[edited for profanity bypass & bashing]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 14, 2021 12:50PM Second, what the [snip] is up with forcing us to sign a new Terms of Service by making the game that we paid for inaccessible until we do? [snip] What if I bought this game b/c I agreed to the original contract, but not this one? Will Zenmax refund my purchase?
Third - despite what is written in the forced user agreement, Zenmax is unable to curtail my rights to lawsuits, juries and so on, despite that you are forcing me to sign this. If anyone goes to court over this product - and I can't imagine anyone doing that - the part purporting to curtail our rights to certain kinds of legal representation wouldn't hold up in court. So...not sure why it's there.
[edited for profanity bypass & bashing]
War, give me war, give me war.
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AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Terms of Service are an old way to get players to conform to a standard of behaviour, no hacking or modding the game, no abusing other players, etc. I have never seen anything in them I objected to.
That said they are now a waste of time in Europe, recent cases in German Lawcourts now render any TOS obsolete and useless. This is not the victory most people in EU think it is, it makes far less likely for some games to be released in the EU, because the production company has less legal control than they used to.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule2 -
Falmer✭✭✭✭Like every piece of software you have ever used, there is a EULA (End-User License Agreement). You haven't purchased the software in any form and this is true of every Application you have ever used. You purchased a LICENSE to use it. The ownership of it remains that of the developer/publisher.
Part of the LICENSE is you agree to the terms of its use.
Best way to look at software... is that you are being given permission to access their software for the price you paid. That permission can be revoked at anytime should you fail to comply with its terms of use.
So yes, much of it would hold up just fine in a court of law. They are under no obligation to continue your license to access it. At most, the court might ask them to refund the cost of your license if they found the terms were misleading in any manner.1 -
Swordguy✭✭✭ToS generally have a clause that states that any part of the ToS may be updated or changed without prior notice. agreeing to the original ToS means that you accept there might be changes. by agreeing to the new ToS, you are simply affirming that you are aware of the change, not re-agreeing to it.
*edit* the agree button is there by default, in case you are a new player and have to agree to the ToS, or someone using the account that didn't agree to the previous ToS (ie - a parent bought game for child, or girlfriend buying for boyfriend or visa versa).Edited by Swordguy on June 8, 2014 12:35PMIN SOVIET RUSSIA, GUN LOADS YOU!
Do you Troll bait?
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Singular✭✭✭✭Updating ToS is a very common practice.
What annoyed me is that I was booted out of the game and subject to repeated "error" messages when I tried relogging - I submitted a ticket and found out that I need to accept the latest EULA.
It's ridiculous that they would do that - suddenly cancel your play time without telling you why until you submit a support ticket. I'm sure the support people aren't happy about it either.War, give me war, give me war.0 -
Singular✭✭✭✭ToS generally have a clause that states that any part of the ToS may be updated or changed without prior notice. agreeing to the original ToS means that you accept there might be changes. by agreeing to the new ToS, you are simply affirming that you are aware of the change, not re-agreeing to it.
*edit* the agree button is there by default, in case you are a new player and have to agree to the ToS, or someone using the account that didn't agree to the previous ToS (ie - a parent bought game for child, or girlfriend buying for boyfriend or visa versa).
In that case, I shouldn't have to re-agree. As I said, I like the game and will sign the ToS. And, like others have said, I largely agree with it - except the silly part that ineffectively tries to circumvent my rights as a citizen.
As I just posted, and probably should have made clear in the first post, was that I'm annoyed I was booted out of the game, without warning or reason, so that I could discover after a support ticket that they want me to re-sign a ToS.
That's patently ridiculous behavior on their part.War, give me war, give me war.0 -
stungateb14_ESO✭✭✭Like every piece ofNON OPEN SOURCE software you have ever used, there is a EULA (End-User License Agreement). You haven't purchased the software in any form and this is true of every Application you have ever used. You purchased a LICENSE to use it. The ownership of it remains that of the developer/publisher.
Part of the LICENSE is you agree to the terms of its use.
Best way to look at software... is that you are being given permission to access their software for the price you paid. That permission can be revoked at anytime should you fail to comply with its terms of use.
So yes, much of it would hold up just fine in a court of law. They are under no obligation to continue your license to access it. At most, the court might ask them to refund the cost of your license if they found the terms were misleading in any manner.
Fixed
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XanadoX✭✭
And if i don't get to play they will refund the time left of my sub?wrlifeboil wrote: »Either you agree to the ToS or you don't get to play. End of story.
Edited by XanadoX on June 8, 2014 2:19PM0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Have you never used a computer program before?
Any non-open-source software that updates itself requires that you re-agree to the ToS before using the software. That's because when the software is updated, it's technically (in legal terms) considered "new" software. So you need to agree to the ToS again to affirm that you're agreeing to it for this new version of the software. They rarely, if ever, change the actual terms of the agreement, and when they do, it's generally accompanied with a warning to let you know that the ToS have been changed.
All that said: you don't read it anyway, so why does it matter?----
Murray?1 -
FrauPerchta✭✭✭Common practice with all online games. If it bothers you that much you should stick to single player offline games.0
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DireKit✭✭✭Have you never used a computer program before?
Any non-open-source software that updates itself requires that you re-agree to the ToS before using the software. That's because when the software is updated, it's technically (in legal terms) considered "new" software. So you need to agree to the ToS again to affirm that you're agreeing to it for this new version of the software. They rarely, if ever, change the actual terms of the agreement, and when they do, it's generally accompanied with a warning to let you know that the ToS have been changed.
All that said: you don't read it anyway, so why does it matter?
Apple iTunes in fact specifies you may not use their software for Nuclear Proliferation."g. You may not use or otherwise export or re-export the Licensed Application except as authorized by United States law and the laws of the jurisdiction in which the Licensed Application was obtained. In particular, but without limitation, the Licensed Application may not be exported or re-exported (a) into any U.S. embargoed countries or (b) to anyone on the U.S. Treasury Department's list of Specially Designated Nationals or the U.S. Department of Commerce Denied Person’s List or Entity List. By using the Licensed Application, you represent and warrant that you are not located in any such country or on any such list. You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
Jepjep.
Edited by DireKit on June 8, 2014 2:25PM2 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Have you never used a computer program before?
Any non-open-source software that updates itself requires that you re-agree to the ToS before using the software. That's because when the software is updated, it's technically (in legal terms) considered "new" software. So you need to agree to the ToS again to affirm that you're agreeing to it for this new version of the software. They rarely, if ever, change the actual terms of the agreement, and when they do, it's generally accompanied with a warning to let you know that the ToS have been changed.
All that said: you don't read it anyway, so why does it matter?
Apple iTunes in fact specifies you may not use their software for Nuclear Proliferation."g. You may not use or otherwise export or re-export the Licensed Application except as authorized by United States law and the laws of the jurisdiction in which the Licensed Application was obtained. In particular, but without limitation, the Licensed Application may not be exported or re-exported (a) into any U.S. embargoed countries or (b) to anyone on the U.S. Treasury Department's list of Specially Designated Nationals or the U.S. Department of Commerce Denied Person’s List or Entity List. By using the Licensed Application, you represent and warrant that you are not located in any such country or on any such list. You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
Jepjep.
Great. Now I have to make new plans for my next trip to Iran.----
Murray?1 -
zgrssd✭✭✭✭
If you had just restarted the client once you would have noticed the new TOS.Updating ToS is a very common practice.
What annoyed me is that I was booted out of the game and subject to repeated "error" messages when I tried relogging - I submitted a ticket and found out that I need to accept the latest EULA.
It's ridiculous that they would do that - suddenly cancel your play time without telling you why until you submit a support ticket. I'm sure the support people aren't happy about it either.
Starting the client and even the computer new is a very common approach to solve errors. So I have to say: User error for not trying to restart the client at least once before writing a ticket.Elana Peterson (EU), Dominion, Imperial Sorc, Rune & Alchemy Crafting Char
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If you think anything I or somebody else said violates the Rules of this Forum, you are free to flag my posts. Till I get any notifcaion from this, I just asume you know you have no case against me or Zenimax disagrees with you.0 -
Singular✭✭✭✭
If you had just restarted the client once you would have noticed the new TOS.Updating ToS is a very common practice.
What annoyed me is that I was booted out of the game and subject to repeated "error" messages when I tried relogging - I submitted a ticket and found out that I need to accept the latest EULA.
It's ridiculous that they would do that - suddenly cancel your play time without telling you why until you submit a support ticket. I'm sure the support people aren't happy about it either.
Starting the client and even the computer new is a very common approach to solve errors. So I have to say: User error for not trying to restart the client at least once before writing a ticket.
Uh...I haven't left the game on continuously since it first came out. I log in, then log off. Today, logged in - did not see anything out of the ordinary - played until was forced off. Tried reloading the client numerous times, kept getting an error message. Only found out that I needed to resign the EULA after writing a support ticket.
A different game I played would just put up the EULA with the loader when they updated it - pretty surprised this one required that I contact support with an error message inquiry.
So your comments don't apply in my case. I mean...is there anyone who seriously leaves the game on all the time? That's intense.War, give me war, give me war.0 -
Singular✭✭✭✭Have you never used a computer program before?
Any non-open-source software that updates itself requires that you re-agree to the ToS before using the software. That's because when the software is updated, it's technically (in legal terms) considered "new" software. So you need to agree to the ToS again to affirm that you're agreeing to it for this new version of the software. They rarely, if ever, change the actual terms of the agreement, and when they do, it's generally accompanied with a warning to let you know that the ToS have been changed.
All that said: you don't read it anyway, so why does it matter?
Apple iTunes in fact specifies you may not use their software for Nuclear Proliferation."g. You may not use or otherwise export or re-export the Licensed Application except as authorized by United States law and the laws of the jurisdiction in which the Licensed Application was obtained. In particular, but without limitation, the Licensed Application may not be exported or re-exported (a) into any U.S. embargoed countries or (b) to anyone on the U.S. Treasury Department's list of Specially Designated Nationals or the U.S. Department of Commerce Denied Person’s List or Entity List. By using the Licensed Application, you represent and warrant that you are not located in any such country or on any such list. You also agree that you will not use these products for any purposes prohibited by United States law, including, without limitation, the development, design, manufacture or production of nuclear, missiles, or chemical or biological weapons."
Jepjep.
Great. Now I have to make new plans for my next trip to Iran.
Who knew that Itunes would make great strategic defense software?War, give me war, give me war.0 -
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Daethz✭✭✭I dont think most TOS's would hold up in court.
Alot of them seem to breach constitutional rights.Waiting, and watching, for the return of Melee Weapons.
-Subsidiary of The Fighters Guild1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
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You can't give up your constitutional rights other than rights you lose as punishment for committing certain crimes. Even that is being reviewed in several states. That said they could shut the servers down now if they wanted and it wouldn't violate any rights. Many of the rights we are given (USA) are protection against government actions.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Paulytnz✭✭✭✭✭This thread is 7 years old and as such the Terms of service have probably changed a few more times since this was started........please read the dates of the last post before commenting on a thread.....I know the search feature is not the best here, but please just look for that first before posting.
Please support my Quality of Life Suggestions here:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/578316/qol-suggestions#latest2 -
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have closed this topic as it was originally created in June 2014. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old.
Thank you for your understanding0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHEG93YQw28
This discussion has been closed.