Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
FIX Fake roles, BGs and partially PVP overnight
Merforum
✭✭✭✭✭
The biggest problem with the game is griefers or just humans not playing well together. And to have a functioning community people need to work together NOT tear each other down. Since certain people are never going to agree on certain things there is no point forcing them to have to deal with each other.
There is already a function for blocking but it is VERY minimal, it only blocks CHAT. The block function would fix Fake Roles, BGs and some problems with PVP IF it ALSO BLOCKED INTERACTION IN OTHER PARTS OF THE GAME. For instance, if someone blocked someone else it should
1. Never put those 2 people together in the same dungeon finder group (BTW this also fix the people claiming Fake DD is a thing cause they can block them too)
2. Never put those 2 people in the same BG either on the same team or not keep them separate
3. Anyone who has a block on someone in PVP zone should become UN-INTERACTABLE, so the griefers that keep killing people over and over in IC making most players quit PVP even before they have a chance to 'git gud' will be able to avoid that problem. Maybe try this in IC first then test in cyro, but I can see it abused in cyro by blocking everyone not just griefers so would need some testing.
And just as it is now where you can Unblock, that would also unblock for everything. This is as simple as my idea of adding hard caps which would be better on crit CHANCE rather than crit damage but good job on that ZOS, here is another easy fix for you.
There is already a function for blocking but it is VERY minimal, it only blocks CHAT. The block function would fix Fake Roles, BGs and some problems with PVP IF it ALSO BLOCKED INTERACTION IN OTHER PARTS OF THE GAME. For instance, if someone blocked someone else it should
1. Never put those 2 people together in the same dungeon finder group (BTW this also fix the people claiming Fake DD is a thing cause they can block them too)
2. Never put those 2 people in the same BG either on the same team or not keep them separate
3. Anyone who has a block on someone in PVP zone should become UN-INTERACTABLE, so the griefers that keep killing people over and over in IC making most players quit PVP even before they have a chance to 'git gud' will be able to avoid that problem. Maybe try this in IC first then test in cyro, but I can see it abused in cyro by blocking everyone not just griefers so would need some testing.
And just as it is now where you can Unblock, that would also unblock for everything. This is as simple as my idea of adding hard caps which would be better on crit CHANCE rather than crit damage but good job on that ZOS, here is another easy fix for you.
2
-
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's a flat out awful idea for PVP. You'd basically have people blocking every opposing player in PVP areas and never having to actually deal with PVP.
And no, killing people repeatedly in a PVP zone is not griefing. Not at all. It's literally the point of the area, killing other players.
26 -
FluffWit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The block list should probably apply to the dungeon finder. And Battlegrounds I guess.
As jaws said it's way too easy to exploit in Cyrodiil and the IC.1 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭The biggest problem with the game is griefers or just humans not playing well together. And to have a functioning community people need to work together NOT tear each other down. Since certain people are never going to agree on certain things there is no point forcing them to have to deal with each other.
There is already a function for blocking but it is VERY minimal, it only blocks CHAT. The block function would fix Fake Roles, BGs and some problems with PVP IF it ALSO BLOCKED INTERACTION IN OTHER PARTS OF THE GAME. For instance, if someone blocked someone else it should
1. Never put those 2 people together in the same dungeon finder group (BTW this also fix the people claiming Fake DD is a thing cause they can block them too)
2. Never put those 2 people in the same BG either on the same team or not keep them separate
3. Anyone who has a block on someone in PVP zone should become UN-INTERACTABLE, so the griefers that keep killing people over and over in IC making most players quit PVP even before they have a chance to 'git gud' will be able to avoid that problem. Maybe try this in IC first then test in cyro, but I can see it abused in cyro by blocking everyone not just griefers so would need some testing.
And just as it is now where you can Unblock, that would also unblock for everything. This is as simple as my idea of adding hard caps which would be better on crit CHANCE rather than crit damage but good job on that ZOS, here is another easy fix for you.
point 1 and 2 sound fine i dont care but there is no problem with them
point 3 is not possible u cant lock someone cause a other player feels like it
that would make stuff possible like blocking EVERYONE in ic and just farming bosses or blockling many people in cyro and just grinding all resources this would make it way to easy for players to abusive it
and btw honestly killing someone multiple times is not grifing specialy in ic where u get rewarded for every kill...4 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As someone who also plays Elite: Dangerous where blocking stops you from instancing with that person it fundamentally breaks the very foundation of the game. Someone too good and beats you at every turn? Just block them and start beating their faction without that pesky menace! Why should I PvP in my PvP content?
This is a horrible idea.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK4 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭That's a flat out awful idea for PVP. You'd basically have people blocking every opposing player in PVP areas and never having to actually deal with PVP.
And no, killing people repeatedly in a PVP zone is not griefing. Not at all. It's literally the point of the area, killing other players.
Well I think they can put a limit of blocking 1 or 2 persons per day in Cyro or something like that to limit abuse but the benefit of being able to stop being griefed is much greater than the ability to abuse it.
BTW NO, PVP is NOT only about killing other players, that is why ever single PVP game has many other things to do in PVP areas and most PVP games doesn't even have killing other players as any part of it. If you want to kill other players exclusively that is what DUELS are for.1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's a flat out awful idea for PVP. You'd basically have people blocking every opposing player in PVP areas and never having to actually deal with PVP.
And no, killing people repeatedly in a PVP zone is not griefing. Not at all. It's literally the point of the area, killing other players.
Well I think they can put a limit of blocking 1 or 2 persons per day in Cyro or something like that to limit abuse but the benefit of being able to stop being griefed is much greater than the ability to abuse it.
BTW NO, PVP is NOT only about killing other players, that is why ever single PVP game has many other things to do in PVP areas and most PVP games doesn't even have killing other players as any part of it. If you want to kill other players exclusively that is what DUELS are for.
It's about winning, and if you can't stop the enemy team from winning it's no longer PvP. I'm sorry but that belief is fundamentally flawed.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK4 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »The biggest problem with the game is griefers or just humans not playing well together. And to have a functioning community people need to work together NOT tear each other down. Since certain people are never going to agree on certain things there is no point forcing them to have to deal with each other.
There is already a function for blocking but it is VERY minimal, it only blocks CHAT. The block function would fix Fake Roles, BGs and some problems with PVP IF it ALSO BLOCKED INTERACTION IN OTHER PARTS OF THE GAME. For instance, if someone blocked someone else it should
1. Never put those 2 people together in the same dungeon finder group (BTW this also fix the people claiming Fake DD is a thing cause they can block them too)
2. Never put those 2 people in the same BG either on the same team or not keep them separate
3. Anyone who has a block on someone in PVP zone should become UN-INTERACTABLE, so the griefers that keep killing people over and over in IC making most players quit PVP even before they have a chance to 'git gud' will be able to avoid that problem. Maybe try this in IC first then test in cyro, but I can see it abused in cyro by blocking everyone not just griefers so would need some testing.
And just as it is now where you can Unblock, that would also unblock for everything. This is as simple as my idea of adding hard caps which would be better on crit CHANCE rather than crit damage but good job on that ZOS, here is another easy fix for you.
point 1 and 2 sound fine i dont care but there is no problem with them
point 3 is not possible u cant lock someone cause a other player feels like it
that would make stuff possible like blocking EVERYONE in ic and just farming bosses or blockling many people in cyro and just grinding all resources this would make it way to easy for players to abusive it
and btw honestly killing someone multiple times is not grifing specialy in ic where u get rewarded for every kill...
Glad you agree with first 2 points. We'll have to agree to disagree on the 3rd one. But as I stated there are ways to limit the ability to abuse this like limited blocking 1-2 per day or 20 total per campaign. This gives each of us our OWN control over whether we feel like playing with certain people or not. It doesn't effect anyone else's fun either.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This gives each of us our OWN control over whether we feel like playing with certain people or not. It doesn't effect anyone else's fun either.
I don't enjoy playing in ghost towns, and several other of my friends don't like it either. Go play Elite: Dangerous and tell me how healthy it is for the competitive scene of the game. Watch as you see systems flip you spent all day patrolling, watch the numbers go up on the opposition to your expansion you spent all week preparing for you can't defend, and then come back to us on whether this is good or not for ESO.
Edit: And if you wanna hit closer to home look at how well mass reporting players in New World to get them kicked before PvP events goes. It's not fun, it's not productive, it scales up based on the number of people you have with you, and only gets worse. If I'm limited to 2 people I can just straight up block then I can block 2 enemies, the other guy in my group can block 2 enemies, and on and on it goes till all 12 of us have blocked 2 people, and now since ESO prioritizes groups being instanced with each other we have effectively eliminated in a single night 24 enemies.Edited by Vevvev on December 10, 2021 9:12PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭As someone who also plays Elite: Dangerous where blocking stops you from instancing with that person it fundamentally breaks the very foundation of the game. Someone too good and beats you at every turn? Just block them and start beating their faction without that pesky menace! Why should I PvP in my PvP content?
This is a horrible idea.
I disagree. It would FIX many things fundamentally, for instance, we have a random BG queue that feeds into deathmatch queue and makes it so 1 deathmatcher will force 11 objective players into a deathmatch. But I we could block the deathmatch only players 20-30 of them, we would actually be able to get some objective matches. And it is even better than just adding an objective only queue because the deathmatchers that are too good for us lowly objective player would be able to infiltrate an objective only queue and ruin it, but BLOCKING solves all problems.
The biggest problem with PVP in ESO is that they allow people who are WAY BETTER (there I'll stipulate there are 100s of PVPer that are so good I have no reason to ever want to duel them) play against everyone even beginners. Sorry I don't see how FORCING beginner players to be fodder for the egos of others is good for the people being beat up OR the people doing the beating.
PVP is like if the took the best score/time on PVE dungeons/trials/arenas and said anyone who can't beat the best of the best, doesn't get the rewards. One doesn't have to be the best PVEer in the game to complete dungeons/trials/arenas and they shouldn't have to be the best PVP to even play in a PVP area.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To answer the PVP part:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546727/was-it-ever-confirmed-if-tea-bagging-is-against-tos-now/p1
So, no, I'm not in favor of giving people an "opt-out" from something that's an expected part of PVP. I can definitely say that it would be abused by regular PVPers, not just the "Oh, I just want to quest here!" crowd.
Additionally, I suspect that people who overuse the block function would quickly find themselves suffering from longer queues more so than the people who get blocked.
I mean, let's say you block every fake tank you meet.
Who's going to have shorter queues: you, waiting in the DD line for a real tank or the fake tank waiting for three people who haven't blocked them yet?
So I really doubt this is going to be much of a fix at all.3 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭This gives each of us our OWN control over whether we feel like playing with certain people or not. It doesn't effect anyone else's fun either.
I don't enjoy playing in ghost towns, and several other of my friends don't like it either. Go play Elite: Dangerous and tell me how healthy it is for the competitive scene of the game. Watch as you see systems flip you spent all day patrolling, watch the numbers go up on the opposition to your expansion you spent all week preparing for you can't defend, and then come back to us on whether this is good or not for ESO.
Edit: And if you wanna hit closer to home look at how well mass reporting players in New World to get them kicked before PvP events goes. It's not fun, it's not productive, it scales up based on the number of people you have with you, and only gets worse. If I'm limited to 2 people I can just straight up block then I can block 2 enemies, the other guy in my group can block 2 enemies, and on and on it goes till all 12 of us have blocked 2 people, and now since ESO prioritizes groups being instanced with each other we have effectively eliminated in a single night 24 enemies.
It would only be a ghost town for griefers not for all the people who want to have fun. In fact I think it would be a huge benefit to PVP across the board. People wouldn't block everyone because what would be the point. The only objection I can see is for the people who just want to play against people they know they can beat.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's a flat out awful idea for PVP. You'd basically have people blocking every opposing player in PVP areas and never having to actually deal with PVP.
And no, killing people repeatedly in a PVP zone is not griefing. Not at all. It's literally the point of the area, killing other players.
Well I think they can put a limit of blocking 1 or 2 persons per day in Cyro or something like that to limit abuse but the benefit of being able to stop being griefed is much greater than the ability to abuse it.
BTW NO, PVP is NOT only about killing other players, that is why ever single PVP game has many other things to do in PVP areas and most PVP games doesn't even have killing other players as any part of it. If you want to kill other players exclusively that is what DUELS are for.
Being killed in a PVP environment IN THIS GAME is not griefing. And no level of hand wringing over it will make it so. I don't care what other games do, this isn't other games.
You should not be able to block opposing players from killing you in any PVP environment. Period, ever. There is no argument for it that holds any validity.4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.5 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »To answer the PVP part:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546727/was-it-ever-confirmed-if-tea-bagging-is-against-tos-now/p1
So, no, I'm not in favor of giving people an "opt-out" from something that's an expected part of PVP. I can definitely say that it would be abused by regular PVPers, not just the "Oh, I just want to quest here!" crowd.
Additionally, I suspect that people who overuse the block function would quickly find themselves suffering from longer queues more so than the people who get blocked.
I mean, let's say you block every fake tank you meet.
Who's going to have shorter queues: you, waiting in the DD line for a real tank or the fake tank waiting for three people who haven't blocked them yet?
So I really doubt this is going to be much of a fix at all.
I think it is up to every person to decide whether they feel like they are being harassed, rather than someone making that decision for them. BTW many people have stated that they would thankfully wait in a longer queue to have fun and not be griefed. But the control would be with each individual, for instance, if you blocked a bunch of people and realized the queue was too long, you can just as easily unblock them to go back to the way it was, EVERYONE WINS. And people will have to be nicer to everyone so they don't get blocked.0 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.
That's still an awful idea.
I'll just block the enemy emperor so that they can never kill me. Ever for the day, and then just keep killing their group while they cannot attack me. Or take their keeps, while the most powerful player on the field cannot attack me. And then my entire group will do the same thing, so 12 of us will be unstoppable by the most powerful enemy player.
So yeah, bad idea. Just get better at PVP.3 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.
That's still an awful idea.
I'll just block the enemy emperor so that they can never kill me. Ever for the day, and then just keep killing their group while they cannot attack me. Or take their keeps, while the most powerful player on the field cannot attack me. And then my entire group will do the same thing, so 12 of us will be unstoppable by the most powerful enemy player.
So yeah, bad idea. Just get better at PVP.
Well if that became a problem just make whoever is the emperor is unblockable while they are the emperor. BUT we are getting way off track with the cyro part of it. Let me remove CYRO from the idea.
If blocking was just for DF, BG and maybe IC, this would fix a lot, right?0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.
Okay I'd just block the 1-2 people I see in Cheyindhal and do Pve Cyrodiil. I guess they could then call in reinforcements to yeet me out of there. But I don't know how now the Red Team locking down a non-pvp objective on principle is supposed to improve the experience of casual pvpers doing quests?0 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.
Okay I'd just block the 1-2 people I see in Cheyindhal and do Pve Cyrodiil. I guess they could then call in reinforcements to yeet me out of there. But I don't know how now the Red Team locking down a non-pvp objective on principle is supposed to improve the experience of casual pvpers doing quests?
OK forget about CYRO, we are getting sidetracked. I even put in original post to test in IC then maybe do in cyro. BUT I DON'T CARE ABOUT CYRO. Let's totally exclude it from discussion.Edited by Merforum on December 10, 2021 9:49PM1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »To answer the PVP part:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546727/was-it-ever-confirmed-if-tea-bagging-is-against-tos-now/p1
So, no, I'm not in favor of giving people an "opt-out" from something that's an expected part of PVP. I can definitely say that it would be abused by regular PVPers, not just the "Oh, I just want to quest here!" crowd.
Additionally, I suspect that people who overuse the block function would quickly find themselves suffering from longer queues more so than the people who get blocked.
I mean, let's say you block every fake tank you meet.
Who's going to have shorter queues: you, waiting in the DD line for a real tank or the fake tank waiting for three people who haven't blocked them yet?
So I really doubt this is going to be much of a fix at all.
I think it is up to every person to decide whether they feel like they are being harassed, rather than someone making that decision for them. BTW many people have stated that they would thankfully wait in a longer queue to have fun and not be griefed. But the control would be with each individual, for instance, if you blocked a bunch of people and realized the queue was too long, you can just as easily unblock them to go back to the way it was, EVERYONE WINS. And people will have to be nicer to everyone so they don't get blocked.
Well, if you aren't going to listen to Gina Bruno telling you how they evaluate harassment in PVP situations, I certainly don't expect you to listen to me.
I'd be down for the block in PVE and Battlegrounds, since I do think the increasing queue times provides a pretty direct consequence for overusing the block function. I don't think it's going to be a fix for systemic issues - that's way overselling the benefit. At best, it let's the individual have more control over who they don't want to run with.
I'm not in favor of it impacting Cyrodiil and Imperial City, as it seems to me a transparent attempt to opt-out of the inherent nature of PVP in a PVP zone.
There's a lot of mischief to be had with 1-2 blocks per day. Oh, you are camping a resource or an IC District flag? Blocked, and now I can flip the flag and you can't touch me while I capture it for my alliance.
What's this? You've blocked me, and now I can't fight you as you stand on the flag and we both fruitlessly stand on the flag, eye to eye, unable to touch each other and both hoping that an ally comes by to break the stalemate?
Kinda hilarious, but that's exactly the sort of edge case that ZOS has to consider in Cyro and IC.
Real talk, though, if I had this ability?
I'd block any bomber that killed me. 1-2 blocks a day, with 20 blocks total for a campaign? Give me a couple weeks, and I'd basically be immune to bombers because there's just not that many good bombers. Time to repair doors and take flags without any fear!
That's gamebreaking right there.3 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.
Okay I'd just block the 1-2 people I see in Cheyindhal and do Pve Cyrodiil. I guess they could then call in reinforcements to yeet me out of there. But I don't know how now the Red Team locking down a non-pvp objective on principle is supposed to improve the experience of casual pvpers doing quests?
OK forget about CYRO, we are getting sidetracked. I even put in original post to test in IC then maybe do in cyro. BUT I DON'T CARE ABOUT CYRO. Let's totally exclude it from discussion.
I say exclude it from PvP entirely. It'd only get abused regardless of whatever zone or game mode you pick because the competitive scene in video games will always see people chasing the most brutal and efficient means to win. Never give them the tools to fundamentally break the very foundation of the game or they will use it.Edited by Vevvev on December 10, 2021 9:54PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.
Okay I'd just block the 1-2 people I see in Cheyindhal and do Pve Cyrodiil. I guess they could then call in reinforcements to yeet me out of there. But I don't know how now the Red Team locking down a non-pvp objective on principle is supposed to improve the experience of casual pvpers doing quests?
OK forget about CYRO, we are getting sidetracked. I even put in original post to test in IC then maybe do in cyro. BUT I DON'T CARE ABOUT CYRO. Let's totally exclude it from discussion.
The same problem would apply for IC as well. Any instance where you are directly competing against other players who are trying to kill you is a problem.
So in IC, say I block a player taking the flags in IC, and then I go around and contest the flags, and that player can no longer kill me. It complete breaks the point of the zone.
Being able to block anyone from attacking you in any instance of PVP in this game is a terrible idea. Always a terrible idea. Will never have a valid justification for being a thing. In Cyrodil, in IC, in BGs. Anywhere in PVP.4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.
Okay I'd just block the 1-2 people I see in Cheyindhal and do Pve Cyrodiil. I guess they could then call in reinforcements to yeet me out of there. But I don't know how now the Red Team locking down a non-pvp objective on principle is supposed to improve the experience of casual pvpers doing quests?
OK forget about CYRO, we are getting sidetracked. I even put in original post to test in IC then maybe do in cyro. BUT I DON'T CARE ABOUT CYRO. Let's totally exclude it from discussion.
I mean the same applies to IC. I think it would be more workable if BGs if the population of those weren't so low. They can barely sustain the queue the way it is now.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Or, another Imperial City example.
Say I am killing players in the Arena in the Arena district. And then every enemy player blocks me and I can no longer kill anyone in that area.
Well, that would be ridiculous, because there is a literal achievement that rewards me for killing players in that area.4 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »To answer the PVP part:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546727/was-it-ever-confirmed-if-tea-bagging-is-against-tos-now/p1
So, no, I'm not in favor of giving people an "opt-out" from something that's an expected part of PVP. I can definitely say that it would be abused by regular PVPers, not just the "Oh, I just want to quest here!" crowd.
Additionally, I suspect that people who overuse the block function would quickly find themselves suffering from longer queues more so than the people who get blocked.
I mean, let's say you block every fake tank you meet.
Who's going to have shorter queues: you, waiting in the DD line for a real tank or the fake tank waiting for three people who haven't blocked them yet?
So I really doubt this is going to be much of a fix at all.
I think it is up to every person to decide whether they feel like they are being harassed, rather than someone making that decision for them. BTW many people have stated that they would thankfully wait in a longer queue to have fun and not be griefed. But the control would be with each individual, for instance, if you blocked a bunch of people and realized the queue was too long, you can just as easily unblock them to go back to the way it was, EVERYONE WINS. And people will have to be nicer to everyone so they don't get blocked.
Well, if you aren't going to listen to Gina Bruno telling you how they evaluate harassment in PVP situations, I certainly don't expect you to listen to me.
I'd be down for the block in PVE and Battlegrounds, since I do think the increasing queue times provides a pretty direct consequence for overusing the block function. I don't think it's going to be a fix for systemic issues - that's way overselling the benefit. At best, it let's the individual have more control over who they don't want to run with.
I'm not in favor of it impacting Cyrodiil and Imperial City, as it seems to me a transparent attempt to opt-out of the inherent nature of PVP in a PVP zone.
There's a lot of mischief to be had with 1-2 blocks per day. Oh, you are camping a resource or an IC District flag? Blocked, and now I can flip the flag and you can't touch me while I capture it for my alliance.
What's this? You've blocked me, and now I can't fight you as you stand on the flag and we both fruitlessly stand on the flag, eye to eye, unable to touch each other and both hoping that an ally comes by to break the stalemate?
Kinda hilarious, but that's exactly the sort of edge case that ZOS has to consider in Cyro and IC.
Real talk, though, if I had this ability?
I'd block any bomber that killed me. 1-2 blocks a day, with 20 blocks total for a campaign? Give me a couple weeks, and I'd basically be immune to bombers because there's just not that many good bombers. Time to repair doors and take flags without any fear!
That's gamebreaking right there.
Thanks for agreeing about DF/BGs this would be a huge benefit. I disagree with some of your points that it would ruin IC/cyro but it's not a high priority for me to discuss further. If blocking worked for DF/BG that would be a huge step in right direction.1 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.
Okay I'd just block the 1-2 people I see in Cheyindhal and do Pve Cyrodiil. I guess they could then call in reinforcements to yeet me out of there. But I don't know how now the Red Team locking down a non-pvp objective on principle is supposed to improve the experience of casual pvpers doing quests?
OK forget about CYRO, we are getting sidetracked. I even put in original post to test in IC then maybe do in cyro. BUT I DON'T CARE ABOUT CYRO. Let's totally exclude it from discussion.
I say exclude it from PvP entirely. It'd only get abused regardless of whatever zone or game mode you pick because the competitive scene in video games will always see people chasing the most brutal and efficient means to win. Never give them the tools to fundamentally break the very foundation of the game or they will use it.
It would be hugely beneficial in all PVP but if it just worked in BGs and DF that would be great. BGs is the most important one because you have 20-30 deathmatchers that only want to play with each other and 100s of others who would like to have other matches and actually not deal with them playing DM in an objective match so I feel like this is the best solution for BGs that anything I have heard so far.1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As someone who also plays Elite: Dangerous where blocking stops you from instancing with that person it fundamentally breaks the very foundation of the game. Someone too good and beats you at every turn? Just block them and start beating their faction without that pesky menace! Why should I PvP in my PvP content?
This is a horrible idea.
I disagree. It would FIX many things fundamentally, for instance, we have a random BG queue that feeds into deathmatch queue and makes it so 1 deathmatcher will force 11 objective players into a deathmatch. But I we could block the deathmatch only players 20-30 of them, we would actually be able to get some objective matches. And it is even better than just adding an objective only queue because the deathmatchers that are too good for us lowly objective player would be able to infiltrate an objective only queue and ruin it, but BLOCKING solves all problems.
The biggest problem with PVP in ESO is that they allow people who are WAY BETTER (there I'll stipulate there are 100s of PVPer that are so good I have no reason to ever want to duel them) play against everyone even beginners. Sorry I don't see how FORCING beginner players to be fodder for the egos of others is good for the people being beat up OR the people doing the beating.
PVP is like if the took the best score/time on PVE dungeons/trials/arenas and said anyone who can't beat the best of the best, doesn't get the rewards. One doesn't have to be the best PVEer in the game to complete dungeons/trials/arenas and they shouldn't have to be the best PVP to even play in a PVP area.
That's why below 50 battlegrounds and Cyrodiil exists. And no-proc/no-cp Cyrodiil/Imperial City exists. Newer players have a higher chance of survival going into these zones, and I have seen some CP 300 people really do a number on my CP 1600 build. Also Battlegrounds has an MMR system, although it's based mostly on time in Battlegrounds played. So going in there's a very high chance of getting tossed in with other beginners as well.
Also you fail to grasp the fact that even in CP enabled Cyrodiil a newer player can contribute to the team just as much as a high level player during a siege with the right tactics in mind. Buy some siege weapons and start raining fire and meat down on enemy positions, heal your allies engaging in battle, and deploy spawn points and revive fallen allies. Battlegrounds its similar as well with similar tactics at play with acting as a ward for the higher skilled allies. If you can't survive alone, don't fight alone. It's a team based game and that should be the first thing you learn.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
Merforum✭✭✭✭✭Or, another Imperial City example.
Say I am killing players in the Arena in the Arena district. And then every enemy player blocks me and I can no longer kill anyone in that area.
Well, that would be ridiculous, because there is a literal achievement that rewards me for killing players in that area.
OK, I don't agree, I think it would be very good for all PVP and we can figure out ways to lessen abuse. But just so we don't get too sidetracked, can you tell me any objections for this to work ONLY in BGs and DF?1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »If I had the ability to stop people from killing me in PVP, I'd block every person in the opposing factions I had ever met that attacked me. And then play PvE Cyrodiil. While that thought does me amuse me, it's obviously game breaking and should not be allowed.
Like I said for Cyro there can be a limit like 1-2 blocks per day or 20 total blocks per campaign. I already addressed this the OP because as it was the only possible issues I could see too. Do you have any other thoughts/objections.
Okay I'd just block the 1-2 people I see in Cheyindhal and do Pve Cyrodiil. I guess they could then call in reinforcements to yeet me out of there. But I don't know how now the Red Team locking down a non-pvp objective on principle is supposed to improve the experience of casual pvpers doing quests?
OK forget about CYRO, we are getting sidetracked. I even put in original post to test in IC then maybe do in cyro. BUT I DON'T CARE ABOUT CYRO. Let's totally exclude it from discussion.
I say exclude it from PvP entirely. It'd only get abused regardless of whatever zone or game mode you pick because the competitive scene in video games will always see people chasing the most brutal and efficient means to win. Never give them the tools to fundamentally break the very foundation of the game or they will use it.
It would be hugely beneficial in all PVP but if it just worked in BGs and DF that would be great. BGs is the most important one because you have 20-30 deathmatchers that only want to play with each other and 100s of others who would like to have other matches and actually not deal with them playing DM in an objective match so I feel like this is the best solution for BGs that anything I have heard so far.
This is a bad idea too and would just be abused. Bad PVP players would just block players who are better than them. And then all that would happen is they would be pitted with players that they can beat with ease, and it would be a vicious cycle that would remove the randomness of skill level in BG matchmaking. All it would do is make newer players have a worse time because a bunch of top end players would be pitted against them after they block the other top end players they cannot beat.
You should never be able to choose who you exclude from facing in a PVP area, like BGs, outside of choosing to group or go solo, or choosing to play under 50 or over 50 BG.
So, across the board, this idea remains terrible for all PVP modes certainly should never happen. The only thing blocking should ever do in PVP is prevent you from actually having that player on your team. That is it. And that is wildly different than being able to prevent them from fighting you in a PVP area.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Or, another Imperial City example.
Say I am killing players in the Arena in the Arena district. And then every enemy player blocks me and I can no longer kill anyone in that area.
Well, that would be ridiculous, because there is a literal achievement that rewards me for killing players in that area.
OK, I don't agree, I think it would be very good for all PVP and we can figure out ways to lessen abuse. But just so we don't get too sidetracked, can you tell me any objections for this to work ONLY in BGs and DF?
How can you not agree that a function that would literally allow players to break another players ability to earn an achievement in game would not be a good idea. Your idea would literally break an achievement in the game. So yeah, it is terrible.1
This discussion has been closed.