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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
The Fake Tanks and Healers have gotten so bad, I don't even want to play anymore.
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Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭But calling players out as fake DD for having wrong gear setups, bad skill selection, low DPS etc etc is just so mean.
Why? As a tank i have to inform myself and build propeprly to get a dungeon done. If i would mess up to much those fake (or call them bad) DDs would be the first to complain. I know these kind of ppl. Get hit by a random boss attack and die and start complainign to me as a tank why i cant keep the boss. Deal no damage and complain when i refuse to tank a boss for 10+ minutes for them. You think calling them fake is mean? You should hear what they call others...
13 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread is being derailed by complaints of “fake dps” which happens every time the subject of “fake tanks” is approached.
Unless the player immediately goes AFK or just follows the group around with no weapon attached, a “fake dps” in no way is the equivalent of a fake tank, and any comparison of the two is just being disingenuous.
A “fake dps” is just someone who is not very good at dps. They may be earnest in trying to help the group, but they just don’t live up to other players expectations.
A “fake tank” is some who is ACTIVELY DECEIVING THE GROUP in the hopes they will just try to tough it out without a real tank. They are a damage dealer who knows what a tank is and what is expected of the roll, they just don’t want to wait in a long queue, and they don’t care if the group does not like it.
Just because the word “fake” is being used does not mean the problems relate to each other. In fact I would go as far as to say that bringing up “fake dps” in this thread is the equivalent to a “fake argument”.15 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »This would be much less of an issue if everyone who feels strongly about this problem rolled a tank. Be part of the solution
Dealing with fake dps is worse than dealing with fake tanks, in my experience. The real solution honesty is just to improve your DPS build so that it don't matter if you get a fake tank. If they are merely annoying because you have to deal with boss mechs that you didn't want to, versus an actual real threat to your success in the dungeon, they become much less aggravating.
no such thing as fake dps just pepple who dps but no so good. its not easy to make good builds and do good dps
Well... if someone queues as a Damage, but does Tank or Heal roles instead, then I would call them a "fake DPS". It is the same as if "fake Tank" queues as a Tank and then does the Damage role instead.
A "fake anything" is just someone who does not do that role. (Edit: does not do it at all... not to someone's criteria of what they think the role is) However, if they do _no roles_, then I would simply call them a Leech and stop trying to assign a role to them.
I would never try to grade the DPS of a participating group member and then, based on that, apply "fake DPS" to that person.
Edited by Elsonso on December 7, 2021 5:15PMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pixiepumpkin wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »This would be much less of an issue if everyone who feels strongly about this problem rolled a tank. Be part of the solution
Dealing with fake dps is worse than dealing with fake tanks, in my experience. The real solution honesty is just to improve your DPS build so that it don't matter if you get a fake tank. If they are merely annoying because you have to deal with boss mechs that you didn't want to, versus an actual real threat to your success in the dungeon, they become much less aggravating.
no such thing as fake dps just pepple who dps but no so good. its not easy to make good builds and do good dps
Wrong. Those "bad" DDs are adventurers who fake being a DD in order to get in.
You can easily do 30k dps with crafted sets and with a "somewhat" rotation.Edited by Facefister on December 7, 2021 5:36PM5 -
TwinStripeUK✭✭✭This thread is being derailed by complaints of “fake dps” which happens every time the subject of “fake tanks” is approached.
Unless the player immediately goes AFK or just follows the group around with no weapon attached, a “fake dps” in no way is the equivalent of a fake tank, and any comparison of the two is just being disingenuous.
A “fake dps” is just someone who is not very good at dps. They may be earnest in trying to help the group, but they just don’t live up to other players expectations.
A “fake tank” is some who is ACTIVELY DECEIVING THE GROUP in the hopes they will just try to tough it out without a real tank. They are a damage dealer who knows what a tank is and what is expected of the roll, they just don’t want to wait in a long queue, and they don’t care if the group does not like it.
Just because the word “fake” is being used does not mean the problems relate to each other. In fact I would go as far as to say that bringing up “fake dps” in this thread is the equivalent to a “fake argument”.
And what if they do go AFK right at the start (as happened to me on more than one occasion during the last event)? Or if you suddenly get an 'ignore the adds' message while they run off into the distance, then have to plough through 10 minutes worth of aggroed adds only to find they've triggered a boss and died straight away (my last three dungeons of the last event went like that)?
How about if they're not only doing very little damage, but if they're actually getting outperformed by the tank and the healer (I played one dungeon recently where both DPS died and I ended up having to burn down the last 15% on the boss on my debuff bar while the tank tried to hold him in place and keep the debuffs up if I needed to swap to heal or give them some resources)?
A DPS that does no DPS isn't a DPS, anymore than a tank that can't/won't tank is a tank or a healer that can't/won't heal is a healer.
It'd count for something if they could at least take a bit of punishment after they've dragged aggro from the tank by standing behind them, or throw out some self healing while standing obliviously in those great big pools of red, but they don't.
Instead, they just make things more difficult for the tank and healer by making them work doubly hard at their job, in addition to the tank and healer having to backfill the lack of damage they're doing.
I myself avoid playing DPS in dungeons, a) because I'm 'okay' with damage rotations, but not great and b) because the queues as a DPS are horrendous and I don't agree with 'faking' my role. If I can have that attitude, anyone else can.
A “fake dps” is NOT just someone who is not very good at dps. It's somebody that doesn't contribute, which makes them just as guilty5 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TwinStripeUK wrote: »A “fake dps” is NOT just someone who is not very good at dps. It's somebody that doesn't contribute, which makes them just as guilty
The key to the definition of "fake role" must be that they at least intend to contribute something to the activity, namely one of the other two roles.
Otherwise, we are grading players based on how good they are, and if they don't hit a certain arbitrary bar, calling them "fake". That is not "fake".
Edited by Elsonso on December 7, 2021 5:42PMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus5 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doing less damage than the tank, who usually does about 3k dps, pretty much classifies you as a fake dd.3 -
ZeroDPS✭✭✭✭WHEN being tank/healer will be rewarded, ONLY then more people will play as tank/healer. otherwise we have what we have....0
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BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TwinStripeUK wrote: »This thread is being derailed by complaints of “fake dps” which happens every time the subject of “fake tanks” is approached.
Unless the player immediately goes AFK or just follows the group around with no weapon attached, a “fake dps” in no way is the equivalent of a fake tank, and any comparison of the two is just being disingenuous.
A “fake dps” is just someone who is not very good at dps. They may be earnest in trying to help the group, but they just don’t live up to other players expectations.
A “fake tank” is some who is ACTIVELY DECEIVING THE GROUP in the hopes they will just try to tough it out without a real tank. They are a damage dealer who knows what a tank is and what is expected of the roll, they just don’t want to wait in a long queue, and they don’t care if the group does not like it.
Just because the word “fake” is being used does not mean the problems relate to each other. In fact I would go as far as to say that bringing up “fake dps” in this thread is the equivalent to a “fake argument”.
And what if they do go AFK right at the start (as happened to me on more than one occasion during the last event)?
Really? You will start with that? Reread my post.TwinStripeUK wrote: »Or if you suddenly get an 'ignore the adds' message while they run off into the distance, then have to plough through 10 minutes worth of aggroed adds only to find they've triggered a boss and died straight away (my last three dungeons of the last event went like that)?
How about if they're not only doing very little damage, but if they're actually getting outperformed by the tank and the healer (I played one dungeon recently where both DPS died and I ended up having to burn down the last 15% on the boss on my debuff bar while the tank tried to hold him in place and keep the debuffs up if I needed to swap to heal or give them some resources)?
A DPS that does no DPS isn't a DPS, anymore than a tank that can't/won't tank is a tank or a healer that can't/won't heal is a healer.
It'd count for something if they could at least take a bit of punishment after they've dragged aggro from the tank by standing behind them, or throw out some self healing while standing obliviously in those great big pools of red, but they don't.
Instead, they just make things more difficult for the tank and healer by making them work doubly hard at their job, in addition to the tank and healer having to backfill the lack of damage they're doing.
I myself avoid playing DPS in dungeons, a) because I'm 'okay' with damage rotations, but not great and b) because the queues as a DPS are horrendous and I don't agree with 'faking' my role. If I can have that attitude, anyone else can.
A “fake dps” is NOT just someone who is not very good at dps. It's somebody that doesn't contribute, which makes them just as guilty
I don’t care if the tank is out dpsing them. A “super-geared-experienced-on-point-meta-tank” will probably out damage a “first-time-ever-in-vet-dungeon” dps player. It does not mean the dps player is being malicious about their actions.
A “fake tank” is some one who is actively and maliciously abusing the system in their favor at the expense of other players.
It is different. And this thread is about fake tanks specifically.Edited by BlueRaven on December 7, 2021 6:20PM6 -
Nogawd✭✭✭✭✭
Expense of what? A new or bad DPS player may freak out when they get a Skeever add on them?A “fake tank” is some one who is actively and maliciously abusing the system in their favor at the expense of other players.
In NORMALS...
When I player healer, I want 3 dps.
When I play tank,. I want 3 dps.
When I play dps, I want 3 other dps.
Because it's just faster and everyone can get on with their day.
1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is being derailed by complaints of “fake dps” which happens every time the subject of “fake tanks” is approached.
This thread is not derailed. Fake Tanks and fake Healers is a problem caused by DDs that mostly effect DDs and there is a high level of complaint. As soon as Tanks come around the corner and complain about the overal bad quality of DDs that goes down to players doing single auto attacks every 2 seconds or just spam the same skill every 2 seconds its all of a sudden not a problem because the loud majority of DDs is not impacted and its "unfair" to the poor fellow DDs. As a tank i can expect that bad/fake DDs are recognized as an issue that leads to less tanks doing pugs because they are just a pain.A “fake dps” is just someone who is not very good at dps. They may be earnest in trying to help the group, but they just don’t live up to other players expectations.
I had DD players clearly communicate to me in the past that they have no interest in improving and that their expectation is that other group members should compensate for it and that its my duty as tank to stay in the dungeon for the hour it needs to complete it.
9 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don’t care if the tank is out dpsing them. A “super-geared-experienced-on-point-meta-tank” will probably out damage a “first-time-ever-in-vet-dungeon” dps player. It does not mean the dps player is being malicious about their actions.
If you count "I dont care and just want a free carry" not as malicious maybe.A “fake tank” is some one who is actively and maliciously abusing the system in their favor at the expense of other players.
Iam a tank, i get fake healers alot. Half of them are the only reason a group gets anywhere in the first place. You know why? Because they bring damage to the table. They might not heal, but they can survive and melt bosses. For tehse 50% the only malisious thing is to cut the line, but otherwise they often contribute more to the group than the 2 DDs combined.
5 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Same old same ole....
I really don't understand why ZoS doesn't just remove the 4 role requisite on dungeons to begin with at this stage of the game's life.
At minimum, you should be able to queue as a solo player to do one, or queue for a group. Just give us the flexibility that even old dinosaur games like LoTRO have had for over a decade... groups there can scale in size, type, and reward options depending on difficulty selected at each level.
Revamp the system, give us more choices, scale the rewards, and call it a day.
You may still see some "fakes" but I am fairly sure that it would help alleviate some of the issues since there would be more ways to play not bottle-necked by the "holy quadruple" of the current one-group-fits-all type in the finder....
Until that happens, I would stick with what I keep saying in all these threads: if you don't want to deal with what inevitably will come with randoms, then don't random - make your own group and be done with it.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Same old same ole....
[snip]
Until that happens, I would stick with what I keep saying in all these threads: if you don't want to deal with what inevitably will come with randoms, then don't random - make your own group and be done with it.
Yup, it's the same each thread of these that pops up.
Everybody expects everybody else to change their behavior to fit their expectations of what should happen in a dungeon run, rather than changing their behaviors to fit what they expect.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Same old same ole....
[snip]
Until that happens, I would stick with what I keep saying in all these threads: if you don't want to deal with what inevitably will come with randoms, then don't random - make your own group and be done with it.
Yup, it's the same each thread of these that pops up.
Everybody expects everybody else to change their behavior to fit their expectations of what should happen in a dungeon run, rather than changing their behaviors to fit what they expect.
Its 100% correct to expect the person queuing as a tank to be a tank and do the job of a tank. No need to change expectations.
The real issue here is respect and responsibility and those who queue as a fake role with no intention of fulfilling that role do not respect the other 3 players and generally take no responsibility for their actions.7 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Same old same ole....
I really don't understand why ZoS doesn't just remove the 4 role requisite on dungeons to begin with at this stage of the game's life.
At minimum, you should be able to queue as a solo player to do one, or queue for a group. Just give us the flexibility that even old dinosaur games like LoTRO have had for over a decade... groups there can scale in size, type, and reward options depending on difficulty selected at each level.
Revamp the system, give us more choices, scale the rewards, and call it a day.
You may still see some "fakes" but I am fairly sure that it would help alleviate some of the issues since there would be more ways to play not bottle-necked by the "holy quadruple" of the current one-group-fits-all type in the finder....
Until that happens, I would stick with what I keep saying in all these threads: if you don't want to deal with what inevitably will come with randoms, then don't random - make your own group and be done with it.
Because roles define the job of the person within that role. Roles allow for nonverbal communication. Remove the roles, you remove the nonverbal communication and turn an otherwise potentially fun endeavor into a cluster expletive of frustration and repair bills.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Same old same ole....
[snip]
Until that happens, I would stick with what I keep saying in all these threads: if you don't want to deal with what inevitably will come with randoms, then don't random - make your own group and be done with it.
Yup, it's the same each thread of these that pops up.
Everybody expects everybody else to change their behavior to fit their expectations of what should happen in a dungeon run, rather than changing their behaviors to fit what they expect.
Its 100% correct to expect the person queuing as a tank to be a tank and do the job of a tank. No need to change expectations.
The real issue here is respect and responsibility and those who queue as a fake role with no intention of fulfilling that role do not respect the other 3 players and generally take no responsibility for their actions.
Only valid if those roles are required... and for pretty much every normal dungeon and most non-DLC vet dungeons, those specific 3 roles (1T, 1H, 2DDs) are not required to complete the content, in fact having that arrangement actually makes many of them more difficult and take longer to complete.
If you require that setup for your runs, then don't expect everybody else to fit your expectations of what should happen. You have the choice (and have always had the choice) to form your own group that meets what you expect.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points4 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Same old same ole....
[snip]
Until that happens, I would stick with what I keep saying in all these threads: if you don't want to deal with what inevitably will come with randoms, then don't random - make your own group and be done with it.
Yup, it's the same each thread of these that pops up.
Everybody expects everybody else to change their behavior to fit their expectations of what should happen in a dungeon run, rather than changing their behaviors to fit what they expect.
Its 100% correct to expect the person queuing as a tank to be a tank and do the job of a tank. No need to change expectations.
The real issue here is respect and responsibility and those who queue as a fake role with no intention of fulfilling that role do not respect the other 3 players and generally take no responsibility for their actions.
Only valid if those roles are required... and for pretty much every normal dungeon and most non-DLC vet dungeons, those specific 3 roles (1T, 1H, 2DDs) are not required to complete the content, in fact having that arrangement actually makes many of them more difficult and take longer to complete.
But due to the fact that the runs are random, one can not predict whether they will get an "easy" dungeon or a hard one where a tank is necessary. As long as their is a disparity in the difficulty within the same finder, a real tank is necessary for a fun and rewarding run.
Likewise the person queuing as a tank, who is not a tank also has the choice to solo run or find like minded people.If you require that setup for your runs, then don't expect everybody else to fit your expectations of what should happen. You have the choice (and have always had the choice) to form your own group that meets what you expect.
The game is designed around a tank, healer, DPS set up for dungeons. Its rightfully expected by the majority of the player base that those roles be met for the folks queuing for those roles.
1 -
Nanfoodle✭✭✭✭✭With the Armory System there is no reason why people can make a real healer or tank build.1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭With the Armory System there is no reason why people can make a real healer or tank build.
1. Armory does not save mundus.
2. My two slots are already taken on all characters and I am not paying 15 dollers PER character to open another slot.
3. My issue with not having a tank in ESO is not due to armory or slots, its due to the fact I can't play the tank the way I want to play it, as a High Elf Magicka warden ice staff with AOE taunt.
Those are my personal reasons.
1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Same old same ole....
[snip]
Until that happens, I would stick with what I keep saying in all these threads: if you don't want to deal with what inevitably will come with randoms, then don't random - make your own group and be done with it.
Yup, it's the same each thread of these that pops up.
Everybody expects everybody else to change their behavior to fit their expectations of what should happen in a dungeon run, rather than changing their behaviors to fit what they expect.
Its 100% correct to expect the person queuing as a tank to be a tank and do the job of a tank. No need to change expectations.
The real issue here is respect and responsibility and those who queue as a fake role with no intention of fulfilling that role do not respect the other 3 players and generally take no responsibility for their actions.
Only valid if those roles are required... and for pretty much every normal dungeon and most non-DLC vet dungeons, those specific 3 roles (1T, 1H, 2DDs) are not required to complete the content, in fact having that arrangement actually makes many of them more difficult and take longer to complete.
But due to the fact that the runs are random, one can not predict whether they will get an "easy" dungeon or a hard one where a tank is necessary. As long as their is a disparity in the difficulty within the same finder, a real tank is necessary for a fun and rewarding run.
Likewise the person queuing as a tank, who is not a tank also has the choice to solo run or find like minded people.If you require that setup for your runs, then don't expect everybody else to fit your expectations of what should happen. You have the choice (and have always had the choice) to form your own group that meets what you expect.
The game is designed around a tank, healer, DPS set up for dungeons. Its rightfully expected by the majority of the player base that those roles be met for the folks queuing for those roles.
Everybody has the choice, which is why I rarely queue. I have people I go to to quickly speed run dungeons that meet what I expect and want (usually 4DD's/ (3.5DD/(1/2 tank/heals)). Because when I have queued as a tank, I sometimes do 50%+ of the dps, and when I queue as a healer (sometimes w/o a resto staff on my healer since she's a templar and has multiple class healing skills) I do 80%+ of the dps. Yet, the dps get a "pass" when they're terrible (meaning they aren't doing their role), while people are free to dump on others that do it for other roles.
Imagine if we had to rigidly follow the "rules" for trials... we can't use 3 tanks in vCR +3? We must have 2 tanks to do nAS +0? 1T/1H/2DD for dungeons is a suggestion, not a hard, fast rule.
I have a lot more I can say, but I want to stay away from moderation. I just feel that demanding others to play the game how you believe it should be played smacks of entitlement. Especially when you always have, and always will have the option to make your own group.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Everybody has the choice, which is why I rarely queue. I have people I go to to quickly speed run dungeons that meet what I expect and want (usually 4DD's/ (3.5DD/(1/2 tank/heals)). Because when I have queued as a tank, I sometimes do 50%+ of the dps, and when I queue as a healer (sometimes w/o a resto staff on my healer since she's a templar and has multiple class healing skills) I do 80%+ of the dps. Yet, the dps get a "pass" when they're terrible (meaning they aren't doing their role), while people are free to dump on others that do it for other roles.
But none of that has anything to do with fake tanks ruining dungeon runs for random queues.
Is there a Trial finder for Trials? I have not seen one. I see one for random dungeons and I see one for random battlegrounds, but I have not seen one for random Trials.Imagine if we had to rigidly follow the "rules" for trials... we can't use 3 tanks in vCR +3? We must have 2 tanks to do nAS +0? 1T/1H/2DD for dungeons is a suggestion, not a hard, fast rule.
But, no one is requesting that others play the game how THEY want them to play. What is being asked is that people take responsibility for their actions and respect the party members by doing the job they queued for. This is really simple. If you want to do DPS in a dungeon and want to use the queue finder, then queue as a DPS, not a tank.I have a lot more I can say, but I want to stay away from moderation. I just feel that demanding others to play the game how you believe it should be played smacks of entitlement. Especially when you always have, and always will have the option to make your own group.
3 -
M0ntie✭✭✭✭✭Perhaps a solution is to make an option in dungeon finder to queue as dps and agree to be put in a group without a healer or tank. This would reduce the motivation to queue as a fake tank by dps because of the long queue times for dps. Putting together groups of 4 dps pushes through the greater number of dps queued in dungeon finder. It also accommodates the two prevalent opposing views that you are/aren't better off with a group of 4 dps.
This would ideally be combined with a check that if you queued as a tank you had a taunt slotted, and if you queued as a healer you had at least 1 group heal slotted. IMO these are the absolute minimum required to attempt to do the job you sign up for.2 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Perhaps a solution is to make an option in dungeon finder to queue as dps and agree to be put in a group without a healer or tank. This would reduce the motivation to queue as a fake tank by dps because of the long queue times for dps. Putting together groups of 4 dps pushes through the greater number of dps queued in dungeon finder. It also accommodates the two prevalent opposing views that you are/aren't better off with a group of 4 dps.
This would ideally be combined with a check that if you queued as a tank you had a taunt slotted, and if you queued as a healer you had at least 1 group heal slotted. IMO these are the absolute minimum required to attempt to do the job you sign up for.
that is a good idea. they can make normal dungon Q and speed run dungeon Q with disclamer that there is no tank and eveyone has to be careful"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
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Everybody has the choice, which is why I rarely queue. I have people I go to to quickly speed run dungeons that meet what I expect and want (usually 4DD's/ (3.5DD/(1/2 tank/heals)). Because when I have queued as a tank, I sometimes do 50%+ of the dps, and when I queue as a healer (sometimes w/o a resto staff on my healer since she's a templar and has multiple class healing skills) I do 80%+ of the dps. Yet, the dps get a "pass" when they're terrible (meaning they aren't doing their role), while people are free to dump on others that do it for other roles.
But none of that has anything to do with fake tanks ruining dungeon runs for random queues.
Is there a Trial finder for Trials? I have not seen one. I see one for random dungeons and I see one for random battlegrounds, but I have not seen one for random Trials.Imagine if we had to rigidly follow the "rules" for trials... we can't use 3 tanks in vCR +3? We must have 2 tanks to do nAS +0? 1T/1H/2DD for dungeons is a suggestion, not a hard, fast rule.
But, no one is requesting that others play the game how THEY want them to play. What is being asked is that people take responsibility for their actions and respect the party members by doing the job they queued for. This is really simple. If you want to do DPS in a dungeon and want to use the queue finder, then queue as a DPS, not a tank.I have a lot more I can say, but I want to stay away from moderation. I just feel that demanding others to play the game how you believe it should be played smacks of entitlement. Especially when you always have, and always will have the option to make your own group.
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Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
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Ew, who uses three tanks in vCR+3 these days?Imagine if we had to rigidly follow the "rules" for trials... we can't use 3 tanks in vCR +3?
(joking)
Something as simple as a checkbox. "Pre-made" ignores role and level requirements, must be a full group. Queue pops instantly. "Undersized" subcategory, allows you to queue either solo or whatever the minimum requirement is for a specific dungeon (e.g. Direfrost is 2 players) all the way up to the [maximum (4)]-1, and also ignores role requirements, queue is instant, there's no matchmaking to find other players, and you won't suffer penalties for leaving. It doesn't mean the content has some new scaling. It just means you can get in faster.Perhaps a solution is to make an option in dungeon finder to queue as dps and agree to be put in a group without a healer or tank. This would reduce the motivation to queue as a fake tank by dps because of the long queue times for dps. Putting together groups of 4 dps pushes through the greater number of dps queued in dungeon finder. It also accommodates the two prevalent opposing views that you are/aren't better off with a group of 4 dps.
Issues:This would ideally be combined with a check that if you queued as a tank you had a taunt slotted, and if you queued as a healer you had at least 1 group heal slotted. IMO these are the absolute minimum required to attempt to do the job you sign up for.- Having something slotted doesn't mean you have to use it.
- Unless you're prohibited from changing skills once you enter the instance, there's nothing to stop people taking the taunt/heal off once they get in.
@Troodon80 PC | EU
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Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics0 -
Nogawd✭✭✭✭✭In vets is less a problem to no problem.
In normals this should always be a non discussion.1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭At minimum, you should be able to queue as a solo player to do one, or queue for a group.
Doing this would require to change all dugneons to make them soloable and some are not. Thats why you will never see this.Same old same ole....
[snip]
Until that happens, I would stick with what I keep saying in all these threads: if you don't want to deal with what inevitably will come with randoms, then don't random - make your own group and be done with it.
Yup, it's the same each thread of these that pops up.
Everybody expects everybody else to change their behavior to fit their expectations of what should happen in a dungeon run, rather than changing their behaviors to fit what they expect.
Its 100% correct to expect the person queuing as a tank to be a tank and do the job of a tank. No need to change expectations.
The real issue here is respect and responsibility and those who queue as a fake role with no intention of fulfilling that role do not respect the other 3 players and generally take no responsibility for their actions.
The same is true for ppl dant dont deal DPS as DDs, which is not seen as an issue on a regular basis.Perhaps a solution is to make an option in dungeon finder to queue as dps and agree to be put in a group without a healer or tank. This would reduce the motivation to queue as a fake tank by dps because of the long queue times for dps. Putting together groups of 4 dps pushes through the greater number of dps queued in dungeon finder. It also accommodates the two prevalent opposing views that you are/aren't better off with a group of 4 dps.
This would ideally be combined with a check that if you queued as a tank you had a taunt slotted, and if you queued as a healer you had at least 1 group heal slotted. IMO these are the absolute minimum required to attempt to do the job you sign up for.
It would take literal minutes before youwould see complains popping up where low dps dds use this as a carry run option.0
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