Nightblade underperforming in parses vs all other classes this patch

$spacefracking$ · November 2021

So, it seems like the meta has most firmed up, for magicka at least, and the parse numbers that are coming out are showing a somewhat distressing deficit in nightblade parse performance. Nightblades appear to be 5-10% behind templar, necro, warden, and necro.

This coupled with the lack of debuff and group buff capabilities (outside of minor savagery, which is quite minor), means that nightblade is taking it pretty rough this patch.

Magblades have also consistently been ridiculed in pvp, outside of vicious death bombing, and the changes to bombing skills means that the one popular magblade build is out the window.

So, it looks like NB could use a buff. Perhaps the spell/weapon damage boost of merciless resolve isn't high enough? Perhaps its just that other classes saw buffs (they all did, but it appears the other classes received significantly more potent buffs). Adjusting incap/soul harvest to give a 25%+ buff to damage instead of 20% also seems like a potentially simple fix.

This could also be mitigated by giving nightblades some group utility. The very rarely used shadow ultimate, consuming darkness, could perhaps see a rework into a damaging ability, maybe even access to an ability that can apply the rare major vulnerability debuff? Top trial achievements requiring 3+ necromancers to reliably complete because of their unique access to major vulnerability seems unbalanced. Major and minor force buffs are also quite limited in their availability, and somewhat fit the theme of the nightblade, though major vulnerability seems like a perfect debuff considering to fit the stealthy assassination theme. Major lifesteal is also an un-used debuff that could give something unique for the nightblade to bring to the table.

Anyway. Moar buffz please, I need to be able to flex on people with my parse numbers

Foxtrot39 · November 2021

Imho not really needs a buff but some skills or even passive are either just pointless,completely outdated or in need of synergy, to name some

Consumming darkness : was a monster survivability skill due to major protection back then giving you a whooping 60% mitigation

Now its a small AOE that grants 10% to the caster and thats it for a 200 ult cost, its morph aren't really better between 2k magicka damage per sec or keeping major protection when stepping out of it

Reapers mark and its morph, grant minor brutality on kill and a big burst heal, great on paper and rather bad in practice, the 5s minor brutality buff is completely unoticable and the heal on kill while being up to 30k if playing as a tank, is barely beneficial due to the on kill condition making it either useless because you fight trash mobs or useless because you can's kill said target to get the beenfit when needed

Refreshing path is screaming to get a synergy

Aspect of terror : a downgraded version of Repel evil wich only strength at being a CC is to exist as a CC and its morph aren't adding anything really usefull just like consuming darkness

Power extraction : the hit requirement for the time given and ressource cost is more of a massive drawback when all but templar can self buff out if combat, the AOE effect is more of a mediocre gimick than of any use outside niche builds

I know not all listed skills a relevant to parse but they're still wasted potential that could help globally either way

$spacefracking$ · November 2021

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Imho not really needs a buff but some skills or even passive are either just pointless,completely outdated or in need of synergy, to name some

Consumming darkness : was a monster survivability skill due to major protection back then giving you a whooping 60% mitigation

Now its a small AOE that grants 10% to the caster and thats it for a 200 ult cost, its morph aren't really better between 2k magicka damage per sec or keeping major protection when stepping out of it

Reapers mark and its morph, grant minor brutality on kill and a big burst heal, great on paper and rather bad in practice, the 5s minor brutality buff is completely unoticable and the heal on kill while being up to 30k if playing as a tank, is barely beneficial due to the on kill condition making it either useless because you fight trash mobs or useless because you can's kill said target to get the beenfit when needed

Refreshing path is screaming to get a synergy

Aspect of terror : a downgraded version of Repel evil wich only strength at being a CC is to exist as a CC and its morph aren't adding anything really usefull just like consuming darkness

Power extraction : the hit requirement for the time given and ressource cost is more of a massive drawback when all but templar can self buff out if combat, the AOE effect is more of a mediocre gimick than of any use outside niche builds

I know not all listed skills a relevant to parse but they're still wasted potential that could help globally either way

I agree with all of this except for the bit about reaper's mark. It actually gives major berserk (+10% damage, same as the 5 stack kinras buff), though only for 5 seconds. I do use it though. Good to mark something up before pulls, or when there an add to focus down that needs major breach anyway. I like it quite a bit.

That said.. the other morph, Piercing Mark, I am fairly certain this ability is just completely broken, or is useless against against invisibility or something. I've tried to use it many times and have never noticed any effect whatsoever. Maybe I should file a bug about it lol, its been like that forever, and on paper should be a great ability for pvp.

wheresbes · November 2021

100k+ is enough, yes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ullq91kld6w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYyJlp0ZTwY

$spacefracking$ · November 2021

wheresbes wrote: »

100k+ is enough, yes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ullq91kld6w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYyJlp0ZTwY

I mean, yeah, its enough. But the highest magblade parse I've heard of is 113, and the highest I've seen is 109k with some unusual crit numbers. I've seen many many magdk, magcro, magplar, and magden parses well into the 110's, and even a couple over 120k. Basically, magblade is parsing like 10k lower than the rest of the mag classes. Considering magblade's general role is high focus damage and execute, without much group utility/buffing, this underperformance is an even further deficit in magblade's current state in this meta.

lolo_01b16_ESO · November 2021

You are aware that dummy parses don't defeat bosses? Sure, your parse might be lower than some other classes, but in actual raids NB dds do quite well.
Just check the groups that completed vRG hm this patch and you'll see that NBs are among the more popular dds. Sure, they are behind necros and dks, but I'd say a class that takes 3rd place is certainly not underperforming.

However I agree that NBs need some more group buffs, mainly to make them more viable on the support roles.

Ippokrates · November 2021

How did you modify your NB for U32?

Vaoh · November 2021

NB has been a strong dps in actual content for a long time now and that hasn’t changed. It would be nice if NB healers and tanks got buffs for PvE.

Besides that, the only change I would be glad to see for NB dps is giving them Minor Force as a free passive buff from Grim Focus.

DrSlaughtr · November 2021

This is what happens when you nerf both crit % AND crit damage AND the set many use to navigate these changes. Nightblade is built to use crit as an advantage but with those changes it's hard to compete with classes that don't need those things to hit hard.

$spacefracking$ · November 2021

Vaoh wrote: »

NB has been a strong dps in actual content for a long time now and that hasn’t changed. It would be nice if NB healers and tanks got buffs for PvE.

Besides that, the only change I would be glad to see for NB dps is giving them Minor Force as a free passive buff from Grim Focus.

Oo, yeah, that be nice.

I'm really hoping for something more group oriented though. This whole Necro monopoly on major vuln isn't good for group composition making. 3+ necros shouldn't be a meta comp. Every other class only has a 1+ in a group composition preference.

Everest_Lionheart · November 2021

My NB is only behind because it’s still a Khajiit. I’ve dropped from 100K to 96K on parse. My other classes all went up and they are high elves. DK from 99 to 104, magplar from 97 to 101 and Magcro from 101 to 106.

If I went high elf with my blade I would probably be up in the 104-105 range. Crit change really changed nothing unless you were a cat.

MudcrabAttack · November 2021

I’d be thrilled if they finally fixed the occasional problem where a 5th light attack doesn’t register until after using grim focus, it’s a time waster that reduces dps. It’s the only class where I have to slow down to land everything

$spacefracking$ · November 2021

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

I’d be thrilled if they finally fixed the occasional problem where a 5th light attack doesn’t register until after using grim focus, it’s a time waster that reduces dps. It’s the only class where I have to slow down to land everything

It's a matter of timing, it's easy to weave for daggers, but you have to wait a tiny bit more for staves. Daggers are generally easier to weave for parses anyway, but each ability has its quirks. Much more pronounced with staves tho.

buttaface · November 2021

Incompetent, lazy nerfing via crit dmg cap as opposed to an escalating diminishing returns system did this to be clear, it's not really in the class itself, which IMO was fine before the recent patch.

Merlin13KAGL · November 2021

How about posting hard numbers or a link to the information you're basing this on?

Again, zero need for 100k in this game, let alone anything higher. It's their usual lack of ability to balance, hard(ly) at work.

Stx · November 2021

This is based strictly on parses I have seen posted on streams or YouTube, but it looks like magplar and dk are at the top at around 115k. I'm assuming necro is close behind but I haven't seen any parses for nightblade above 105k.

LadyDestiny · December 2021

They need to fix cloak (shadowy disguise) as well. It's absolute garbage now.

Stx · December 2021

Is there any source of information to see common dps parses for all classes?

I don't use dps addons in this game but maybe there's a site where people's logs are uploaded or recorded?

I would be interested to see class comparisons for content dps numbers and also dummy parses. I can't find this type of info anywhere that I've looked (mainly here and YouTube)

$spacefracking$ · December 2021

Stx wrote: »

Is there any source of information to see common dps parses for all classes?

I don't use dps addons in this game but maybe there's a site where people's logs are uploaded or recorded?

I would be interested to see class comparisons for content dps numbers and also dummy parses. I can't find this type of info anywhere that I've looked (mainly here and YouTube)

They're in various guild and group discords where people need to post their credentials to do difficult content.

NerfSeige · December 2021

Stx wrote: »

Is there any source of information to see common dps parses for all classes?

I don't use dps addons in this game but maybe there's a site where people's logs are uploaded or recorded?

I would be interested to see class comparisons for content dps numbers and also dummy parses. I can't find this type of info anywhere that I've looked (mainly here and YouTube)

ESO-U: https://discord.gg/esou

Rataroto · December 2021

Stx wrote: »

This is based strictly on parses I have seen posted on streams or YouTube, but it looks like magplar and dk are at the top at around 115k. I'm assuming necro is close behind but I haven't seen any parses for nightblade above 105k.

https://youtu.be/4ivLxqEkRt0

Stx · December 2021

Rataroto wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

This is based strictly on parses I have seen posted on streams or YouTube, but it looks like magplar and dk are at the top at around 115k. I'm assuming necro is close behind but I haven't seen any parses for nightblade above 105k.

https://youtu.be/4ivLxqEkRt0

Yeah I found this guys videos last week. His stam NB parses are comparable to his other stam classes so that's good. Definitely helped me polish my setup.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · December 2021

I do think mageblade could use a bit of love. They seemed to get hit the hardest by the crit changes, and perhaps some of their passives need looked at, or maybe a few of the class skills could use a small damage buff.

That said, most people are typically behind from a pure parse standpoint on NB vs other classes. Even in prior metas, gun to my head for a parse, I am not picking Nightblade, even when they are at the top of the pack.

I probably play magic Sorc and NB the most. I am almost always ahead on a dummy on my Sorc and have been for years. The rotation is flat out easier, which means you can really focus on the little things when parsing to squeeze out that extra few K DPS. NBs have always been one of the hardest and least forgiving rotations. Make too many small mistakes on magablade, and your dummy parse is going to fall hard.

In actual content however, I find that I am almost always neck and neck with the two, and in a lot of actual content, I much prefer mageblade. Trial dummy results are absolutely important in the balance discussing, but they almost never tell the whole story. It also could be just perception bias, but I feel like a lot of the really good NB parsers have left the game. Historically, anyone with two good thumbs and a basic understanding of DPS in this game can break 100k on a sorc. Very few could actually do it on a mageblade, even when their ceiling was higher.

Jaimeh · December 2021

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I do think mageblade could use a bit of love. They seemed to get hit the hardest by the crit changes, and perhaps some of their passives need looked at, or maybe a few of the class skills could use a small damage buff.

Agreed, magNB could use some looking into, rotation is a lot of work to be left behind by that much, when it's supposed to be tailored to shine on ST dps. If NB is underperforming, there's no advantage to chosing it, since other specs have better AoE damage as well.

Everest_Lionheart · December 2021

Jaimeh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I do think mageblade could use a bit of love. They seemed to get hit the hardest by the crit changes, and perhaps some of their passives need looked at, or maybe a few of the class skills could use a small damage buff.

Agreed, magNB could use some looking into, rotation is a lot of work to be left behind by that much, when it's supposed to be tailored to shine on ST dps. If NB is underperforming, there's no advantage to chosing it, since other specs have better AoE damage as well.

What it needs is to not have that delay between the 5th LA and the bow proc. That would smooth o it and tighten up the rotation probably to a point where NB became a little too easy. Timing that proc is the bread and butter of NB though and can be the difference between 80K and 100K once you master it.

I went over 100 last patch in Medusa, this patch I am back to 96 but also on Khajiit. Still need to make adjustments to get back over 100 or just get all my procs flawlessly. As was said a couple posts back though forget the dummy, how does it perform in content. In a word, excellent. That’s because NB setup changes depending on content and your rotation also adjusts (often simplifies) to match. Magblade is also fun to run and I never miss a chance to play mine especially since I’m on Magcro 97% of the time.

KilianDermoth · January 2022

Stx wrote: »

Is there any source of information to see common dps parses for all classes?

I don't use dps addons in this game but maybe there's a site where people's logs are uploaded or recorded?

I would be interested to see class comparisons for content dps numbers and also dummy parses. I can't find this type of info anywhere that I've looked (mainly here and YouTube)

olsborg · January 2022

NB needs buffs and at the top of my head one particular buff would be welcome imo.

Soul Harvest / Incap: When you use this ultimate you buff yourself to deal 20% more dmg for 6s. This ultimate and all nbs skills are so telegraphed and predictable etc that 90% of them gets dodged, this change would atleast stop nbs from continously wasting their ultimate.

Rudrani · January 2022

olsborg wrote: »

NB needs buffs and at the top of my head one particular buff would be welcome imo.

Soul Harvest / Incap: When you use this ultimate you buff yourself to deal 20% more dmg for 6s. This ultimate and all nbs skills are so telegraphed and predictable etc that 90% of them gets dodged, this change would atleast stop nbs from continously wasting their ultimate.

This would make it incredibly easier to use, i agree.

$spacefracking$ · January 2022

KilianDermoth wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Is there any source of information to see common dps parses for all classes?

I don't use dps addons in this game but maybe there's a site where people's logs are uploaded or recorded?

I would be interested to see class comparisons for content dps numbers and also dummy parses. I can't find this type of info anywhere that I've looked (mainly here and YouTube)

Iron Atronach: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/13
Rockgrove: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/15#class=DPS
Kyne's Aegis: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/14#class=DPS
Sunspire: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/12#class=DPS
Asylum Sanctorium: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/7#class=DPS
Cloudrest: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/8#class=DPS
Maw of Lorkhaj: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/5#class=DPS
Sanctum Ophidia: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/3#class=DPS
Hel Ra Citadel: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/2#class=DPS
Aetherian Archive: https://www.esologs.com/zone/statistics/1#class=DPS

Nightblades are performing very well, similar like almost any other class, often they are even on the top...

Those iron atronach numbers are very inaccurate based on the general state of currently posted parsed, probably because of the relatively small sample size.

Also worth noting that magblade I the a Last Place mag class in both vCR and vSS here