Group Finder

Aertew · November 2021

So I had been playing Final fantasy 14 a bit and I love the group finder that they have. The group finder basically allows you to advertise your group or to find other people's groups.
Some of these groups might be people doing world bosses. Some might be doing dailies. Some might just want to do the pledges. Ect.

This would just be a great way to find groups without having to look in chat for people advertising their goups.

I think if we had a group finder similar to the one in FFXIV it would help alot. It would help the people that just want to do dungeons slowly for the quest. It would help group up all the people that just want to run through dungeons for pledges or gear. It would help people find groups that want to farm world bosses or world events. Overall it would help the game so much. The only thing that would have to be taken care of is a way to filter out what you want. For example I don't want to see people selling carries or gold seller. Ect. I just want to see what groups are doing dungeons or overworld stuff. There should be a way to filter it out.

Also a group finder would fix the problem of fake tanks and healers. There could be groups made where people don't care about roles. While there can be people that make groups and want proper roles before doing dungeons.

I just think if it's done right it will help the game alot.

Ksariyu · November 2021

I'll comment my support on every one of these threads I see until they finally implement this.

redspecter23 · November 2021

Ksariyu wrote: »

I'll comment my support on every one of these threads I see until they finally implement this.

Same. This is considered basic functionality in many online games the same way a minimap would be. Shame we don't have either in the base game 7+ years into it.

scorpius2k1 · November 2021

💯 Absolutely agree on this and excellent idea, it would help immensely and be a huge QOL improvement. We can already advertise guild listings for different activities such as trials, dungeons, RP, etc... so maybe implement a separate but similar functionality to do the same that could be tailored to the Group & Activity Finder.
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Aertew · November 2021

scorpius2k1 wrote: »

💯 Absolutely agree on this and excellent idea, it would help immensely and be a huge QOL improvement. We can already advertise guild listings for different activities such as trials, dungeons, RP, etc... so maybe implement a separate but similar functionality to do the same that could be tailored to the Group & Activity Finder.
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Yeah. If they could make a guild finder with a really good filter I feel like it shouldnt be too hard to do the same with just groups in general. Add in a RP filter for people that like to do it.

Aertew · November 2021

redspecter23 wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

I'll comment my support on every one of these threads I see until they finally implement this.

Same. This is considered basic functionality in many online games the same way a minimap would be. Shame we don't have either in the base game 7+ years into it.

I'vr only seen it in WoW and FF. I didnt know it was basic functionality in other MMO's as well.

Kessra · November 2021

The problem I see here is the way people advertise their group or what they are looking for. This will quickly lead to its own language franca where people not familar with that slang might not be able to decipher the text at all. Just play Diablo 2 Resurrected and see what open games there are in their lobby. Unless you played for quite some time that language is rather off-putting.

In general though I think that some grouping functionality could be useful, especially for non-dungeon related stuff. I.e. ESO still has no trial-finder which could be solved that way automatically. But realistically speaking, I don't think that ZOS will replace their dungon-finder tool with a more general group-finder anytime soon.

Danikat · November 2021

I agree this would be a good addition. Guild Wars 2 has a very similar system and it's really nice because it lets you choose a group to join, which means you can find not just people doing the same content but like-minded people. For example I can use it to find other people who want to do the story and listen to the dialogue. At the same time someone else could be looking for experienced players for a speed clear. There's no risk the game will force us into the same group and everyone else can choose the one that's best for them, or start their own.

Kessra wrote: »

The problem I see here is the way people advertise their group or what they are looking for. This will quickly lead to its own language franca where people not familar with that slang might not be able to decipher the text at all. Just play Diablo 2 Resurrected and see what open games there are in their lobby. Unless you played for quite some time that language is rather off-putting.

In general though I think that some grouping functionality could be useful, especially for non-dungeon related stuff. I.e. ESO still has no trial-finder which could be solved that way automatically. But realistically speaking, I don't think that ZOS will replace their dungon-finder tool with a more general group-finder anytime soon.

That does happen but I don't think it's a big problem. It's likely to be the same people who currently kick anyone who doesn't have a build they've seen on a fan site, or doesn't have enough CP, or fails their personal DPS check or whatever. It just means the filtering happens before they join the group.

My rule of thumb is if a group listing is full of acronyms and terms I don't understand then they won't want me. Often when I do understand them it just means I know I don't want to join their group because I won't enjoy the way they're doing it.

Instead I join or find a group that says something like 'everyone welcome' or 'fun run' or whatever they want to call it.

Tommy_The_Gun · November 2021

If that would mean a group finder support for 12 man trials and 4 man arenas - then a big yes.

redspecter23 · November 2021

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

If that would mean a group finder support for 12 man trials and 4 man arenas - then a big yes.

The proposal in the thread would support 12 and 4 man content as well as everything else, roleplay, dungeon trifectas, fishing, world boss groups. You could put a group together for anything you want and have a game wide listing for that so anyone could see. You wouldn't be limited to just Craglorn if you want to browse trial groups.

Aertew · November 2021

Kessra wrote: »

The problem I see here is the way people advertise their group or what they are looking for. This will quickly lead to its own language franca where people not familar with that slang might not be able to decipher the text at all. Just play Diablo 2 Resurrected and see what open games there are in their lobby. Unless you played for quite some time that language is rather off-putting.

In general though I think that some grouping functionality could be useful, especially for non-dungeon related stuff. I.e. ESO still has no trial-finder which could be solved that way automatically. But realistically speaking, I don't think that ZOS will replace their dungon-finder tool with a more general group-finder anytime soon.

I didnt know what WTB WTS or LFG meant but I googled it and I found out pretty fast. You could also just ask and someone will be nice enough to explain.

Aertew · November 2021

redspecter23 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

If that would mean a group finder support for 12 man trials and 4 man arenas - then a big yes.

The proposal in the thread would support 12 and 4 man content as well as everything else, roleplay, dungeon trifectas, fishing, world boss groups. You could put a group together for anything you want and have a game wide listing for that so anyone could see. You wouldn't be limited to just Craglorn if you want to browse trial groups.

Yes basically what I'm trying to say.

Jeremy · November 2021

Aertew wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

I'll comment my support on every one of these threads I see until they finally implement this.

Same. This is considered basic functionality in many online games the same way a minimap would be. Shame we don't have either in the base game 7+ years into it.

I'vr only seen it in WoW and FF. I didnt know it was basic functionality in other MMO's as well.

LOTRO had one too.

It's not a replacement for the current activity finder, which is superior. But it couldn't hurt to have one of these also to supplement the system and allow people to make individual requests (or perhaps better said as demands) when forming groups. Just so long as it's seen as a supplement and not a replacement, I would be ok with it.

Jeremy · November 2021

Kessra wrote: »

The problem I see here is the way people advertise their group or what they are looking for. This will quickly lead to its own language franca where people not familar with that slang might not be able to decipher the text at all. Just play Diablo 2 Resurrected and see what open games there are in their lobby. Unless you played for quite some time that language is rather off-putting.

In general though I think that some grouping functionality could be useful, especially for non-dungeon related stuff. I.e. ESO still has no trial-finder which could be solved that way automatically. But realistically speaking, I don't think that ZOS will replace their dungon-finder tool with a more general group-finder anytime soon.

Yeah, it could have its uses, especially for supporting group-making for content not currently encompassed by the activity finder. Though I would prefer raids and arenas simply be added to the activity finder as a solution to that problem.

As you hinted at, group finding tools like this usually get reduced to specific niches and end up being like private clubs instead of venues open to the public. I've also seen them abused in some pretty significant ways, and the opportunity for trolling is high. So people who believe a tool like this would offer them a more quality experience when compared to the current activity finder would likely be disappointed.

redspecter23 · November 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

I'll comment my support on every one of these threads I see until they finally implement this.

Same. This is considered basic functionality in many online games the same way a minimap would be. Shame we don't have either in the base game 7+ years into it.

I'vr only seen it in WoW and FF. I didnt know it was basic functionality in other MMO's as well.

LOTRO had one too.

It's not a replacement for the current activity finder, which is superior. But it couldn't hurt to have one of these also to supplement the system and allow people to make individual requests (or perhaps better said as demands) when forming groups. Just so long as it's seen as a supplement and not a replacement, I would be ok with it.

If it's a replacement for anything, it would be for zone chat. Instead of advertising a group in zone and then travelling to every other notable zone, you only have to post it up once. It's a tool that would make finding groups of like minded players much easier than it is currently.

It's not really a replacement for the current system of push a button. Wait X minutes then port into dungeon/bg. For those that like the simplicity of that without any restrictions at all, that still works fine. For those that want a more filtered system, the proposal is superior compared to zone chat spam.

Jeremy · November 2021

redspecter23 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Aertew wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

I'll comment my support on every one of these threads I see until they finally implement this.

Same. This is considered basic functionality in many online games the same way a minimap would be. Shame we don't have either in the base game 7+ years into it.

I'vr only seen it in WoW and FF. I didnt know it was basic functionality in other MMO's as well.

LOTRO had one too.

It's not a replacement for the current activity finder, which is superior. But it couldn't hurt to have one of these also to supplement the system and allow people to make individual requests (or perhaps better said as demands) when forming groups. Just so long as it's seen as a supplement and not a replacement, I would be ok with it.

If it's a replacement for anything, it would be for zone chat. Instead of advertising a group in zone and then travelling to every other notable zone, you only have to post it up once. It's a tool that would make finding groups of like minded players much easier than it is currently.

It's not really a replacement for the current system of push a button. Wait X minutes then port into dungeon/bg. For those that like the simplicity of that without any restrictions at all, that still works fine. For those that want a more filtered system, the proposal is a superior system compared to zone chat spam.

It would be better than zone chat. There is no argument from me on that.

Danikat · November 2021

Jeremy wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

The problem I see here is the way people advertise their group or what they are looking for. This will quickly lead to its own language franca where people not familar with that slang might not be able to decipher the text at all. Just play Diablo 2 Resurrected and see what open games there are in their lobby. Unless you played for quite some time that language is rather off-putting.

In general though I think that some grouping functionality could be useful, especially for non-dungeon related stuff. I.e. ESO still has no trial-finder which could be solved that way automatically. But realistically speaking, I don't think that ZOS will replace their dungon-finder tool with a more general group-finder anytime soon.

Yeah, it could have its uses, especially for supporting group-making for content not currently encompassed by the activity finder. Though I would prefer raids and arenas simply be added to the activity finder as a solution to that problem.

As you hinted at, group finding tools like this usually get reduced to specific niches and end up being like private clubs instead of venues open to the public. I've also seen them abused in some pretty significant ways, and the opportunity for trolling is high. So people who believe a tool like this would offer them a more quality experience when compared to the current activity finder would likely be disappointed.

Do you really think the current system doesn't have the same problem? If one speed runner joins your dungeon group then everyone else's options are reduced to trying to keep up, missing out on the rewards or leaving the group and trying again. That specific niche gets to dominate the game mode and everyone else just has to put up with it.

At least if players could choose a group to join those who want to do something different will have that option.

Having actually used this system in other games the biggest problem I've seen is that some people are unwilling to start a group listing for whatever reason. It's very common to see groups listed with descriptions like "everyone welcome" or simply the content they're doing and no requirements at all and when that happens they fill up quickly, but when there isn't one already listed (or it fills too quickly) some players will sit and wait for someone else to start one, then complain if they don't rather than doing it themselves. I suspect they're worried that starting the group listing means everyone else will expect them to lead it (and to know all the mechanics) but that should be even less of a problem in ESO because this game already has a system for assigning a group leader and transfering that role to another player if you don't want to do it.

Jeremy · November 2021

Danikat wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Kessra wrote: »

The problem I see here is the way people advertise their group or what they are looking for. This will quickly lead to its own language franca where people not familar with that slang might not be able to decipher the text at all. Just play Diablo 2 Resurrected and see what open games there are in their lobby. Unless you played for quite some time that language is rather off-putting.

In general though I think that some grouping functionality could be useful, especially for non-dungeon related stuff. I.e. ESO still has no trial-finder which could be solved that way automatically. But realistically speaking, I don't think that ZOS will replace their dungon-finder tool with a more general group-finder anytime soon.

Yeah, it could have its uses, especially for supporting group-making for content not currently encompassed by the activity finder. Though I would prefer raids and arenas simply be added to the activity finder as a solution to that problem.

As you hinted at, group finding tools like this usually get reduced to specific niches and end up being like private clubs instead of venues open to the public. I've also seen them abused in some pretty significant ways, and the opportunity for trolling is high. So people who believe a tool like this would offer them a more quality experience when compared to the current activity finder would likely be disappointed.

Do you really think the current system doesn't have the same problem? If one speed runner joins your dungeon group then everyone else's options are reduced to trying to keep up, missing out on the rewards or leaving the group and trying again. That specific niche gets to dominate the game mode and everyone else just has to put up with it.

At least if players could choose a group to join those who want to do something different will have that option.

Having actually used this system in other games the biggest problem I've seen is that some people are unwilling to start a group listing for whatever reason. It's very common to see groups listed with descriptions like "everyone welcome" or simply the content they're doing and no requirements at all and when that happens they fill up quickly, but when there isn't one already listed (or it fills too quickly) some players will sit and wait for someone else to start one, then complain if they don't rather than doing it themselves. I suspect they're worried that starting the group listing means everyone else will expect them to lead it (and to know all the mechanics) but that should be even less of a problem in ESO because this game already has a system for assigning a group leader and transfering that role to another player if you don't want to do it.

This is what I was afraid of, that players will see this as a rose-colored alternative to the current activity finder - a supposed safe haven where players can go to escape "speed runners", elitist, and generally other unpleasant and oftentimes selfish players who don't take into account the quality of the experiences others are having. And all I can do is warn you and others that's not what's going to end up happening in many cases based on my own personal experiences with such systems. It's one of those ideas that often sound good on paper, but when implemented actually achieve the opposite result.

There is a reason why older games that depended on these kind of tools ended up abandoning them in favor of a more automated and public system with standards set by the developers rather than individual players. And as someone who has been playing MMORPGs since their inception I can tell you with certainty those current systems are overall a huge improvement and far more inclusive.

Amottica · November 2021

The original group finder for ESO had a zone-based grouping. It even offered grouping for Cyrodiil. When the group finder was rebuilt the first time they removed this as it was not utilized.

magnusthorek · November 2021

GW2 also has a similar Group Tool and, in the end, people only used it for daily activities. Here, sections like "WB Trains" would hardly be used.

IMHO, what we REALLY need is a way to get better matches. It's awful getting matched with super-low level "DPS" for a pledge and having to carry the whole team. It's awful wanting to do a quick veteran DLC pledge and getting a fake-tank/fake-healer (but that's beside the point) or even players in such roles that never played that dungeon before, knowing absolutely nothing of what to expect.

I'd totally support a Group Tool for achievement hunters, though. Some way to find committed players to run veteran DLCs as flawlessly as possible instead of dying to the first trash mob.

Aertew · November 2021

magnusthorek wrote: »

GW2 also has a similar Group Tool and, in the end, people only used it for daily activities. Here, sections like "WB Trains" would hardly be used.

IMHO, what we REALLY need is a way to get better matches. It's awful getting matched with super-low level "DPS" for a pledge and having to carry the whole team. It's awful wanting to do a quick veteran DLC pledge and getting a fake-tank/fake-healer (but that's beside the point) or even players in such roles that never played that dungeon before, knowing absolutely nothing of what to expect.

I'd totally support a Group Tool for achievement hunters, though. Some way to find committed players to run veteran DLCs as flawlessly as possible instead of dying to the first trash mob.

Making a group finder I think is far more easier than creating a skill based match making system.

Parasaurolophus · November 2021

I think ... I think eso is not doing very well. It seems to me that in fact the population of players on the servers is quite low and 90% of the players do nothing other than quests. The current group finder system will allow any player, regardless of level and skill, to queue up in any dungeon that he needs. If we have a lobby, players will start filtering out lowcp. Even now, if you run the queue as dd, the wait is too long. Too much. I don’t think the lobby can be of any help.

redspecter23 · November 2021

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I think ... I think eso is not doing very well. It seems to me that in fact the population of players on the servers is quite low and 90% of the players do nothing other than quests. The current group finder system will allow any player, regardless of level and skill, to queue up in any dungeon that he needs. If we have a lobby, players will start filtering out lowcp. Even now, if you run the queue as dd, the wait is too long. Too much. I don’t think the lobby can be of any help.

People already filter out low cp if they choose to do that. People filter all sorts of things they personally find undesirable. It's called guild and friends lists. Giving players tools doesn't mean the tools are the issue. Player behavior is subject to individual taste. Saying a tool is bad because players do bad things is just placing blame on the wrong thing.

Juomuuri · November 2021

Group Finder could be useful, especially if it could be utilized in finding a group to do dungeons in a specific way - doing quests the "slow way" aka listening to the story, or just to farm gear, which is also slow. This way, like-minded people would have a way to do this stuff, and everybody wins!

Aertew · December 2021

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

I think ... I think eso is not doing very well. It seems to me that in fact the population of players on the servers is quite low and 90% of the players do nothing other than quests. The current group finder system will allow any player, regardless of level and skill, to queue up in any dungeon that he needs. If we have a lobby, players will start filtering out lowcp. Even now, if you run the queue as dd, the wait is too long. Too much. I don’t think the lobby can be of any help.

DPS always have long que times. It's just there are way more DPS than tanks or healers. It's not a population thing. If you have 100k people and 90k are DPS and the other 10k are split to tank and healer. You will have a hard time queing for dungeons. It's not that the pop is low. It's just that there % of DPS, healers and tanks is skewed torwards DPS.