Werewolf is balanced around the ultimate staying up for as long as there are no corpses to eat or people to attack. They have been heavily nerfed and lost many of their unique tankiness passives, and their only heal costs Magicka and scales with max health. So in order for a werewolf to survive in PvP they need a ton of health and a lot of Magicka regeneration, which means the rest of their character is seriously lacking in many areas.

Remember, as a werewolf you're missing a second bar, a heal over time, no weapon passives, only one enchantment comes with you, and you can only use 5 abilities. I'd say leave them alone and learn how to kill them. Since they can't purge by themselves they're highly susceptible to debuffs and damage over time abilities. Also poison and Fighter's Guild abilities will mess them up quite well, and yes with the recent hybrid changes Magicka builds can easily equip Dawnbreaker so have fun with that ultimate.

Poison/roots/snares/ranged in general/fighter's guild and the list goes on when it comes to counters.
Werewolves got one very expensive heal, no ranged ability, clunky gap closer (can't spam it due to secondary attack), no purge and must remain fighting or feeding, otherwise they lose form. Their stun is limited range to just around them.

Stop trying to fistfight werewolves lol.

I can't remember the last time I saw a Werewolf in BGs. They're usually just dog food for the rest of the PvP meta.

I will let you nerf my Werewolf if you agree to nerf dawnbreaker, necromancer transform ulti, and dark convergence.

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I will let you nerf my Werewolf if you agree to nerf dawnbreaker, necromancer transform ulti, and dark convergence.

Dark convergence is another discussion entirely, it shouldnt even exist... but like I mentioned from the start, necro ulti and vamp ulti are both short lived ultis, not a basically perma ulti that persists through death(s), and makes you substantially more powerful than your non ulti form does... I'm guessing none of you would be so ok with something like this if it was a perma vamp ulti or perma necro ulti huh????

coop500 wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I will let you nerf my Werewolf if you agree to nerf dawnbreaker, necromancer transform ulti, and dark convergence.

Dark convergence is another discussion entirely, it shouldnt even exist... but like I mentioned from the start, necro ulti and vamp ulti are both short lived ultis, not a basically perma ulti that persists through death(s), and makes you substantially more powerful than your non ulti form does... I'm guessing none of you would be so ok with something like this if it was a perma vamp ulti or perma necro ulti huh????

Vampire and necro forms have full access to all skillines (aside from werewolf) and all class skills as well as boosting your stats to absurd amounts ON TOP OF any buffs you have.

Werewolves have 5 limited skills and common buffs you should have anyway on a normal build with no insane stat boosts.

I genuinely don't understand the comparison here. They transform, yes, but that's where the similarities end. One necro going ult is basically god mode for so many seconds.

The comparison is all 3 are Ultimates that increase your base power substantially... 2 are very short burst (under 20seconds) ultis that end upon death even if your timer didnt...

Werewolf is basically permanent Ulti form, with a spammable half heal to full (or restore a large chunk of stamina), a spammable fear thats also an armor debuff, a leap, increased base stats, increased regen stats, damage reduction, increased weapon damage, increased light and heavy attack, bleed damage..... oh and it doesnt even end if you die, I'm sure I missed some other perk they get, [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

I will let you nerf my Werewolf if you agree to nerf dawnbreaker, necromancer transform ulti, and dark convergence.

Dark convergence is another discussion entirely, it shouldnt even exist... but like I mentioned from the start, necro ulti and vamp ulti are both short lived ultis, not a basically perma ulti that persists through death(s), and makes you substantially more powerful than your non ulti form does... I'm guessing none of you would be so ok with something like this if it was a perma vamp ulti or perma necro ulti huh????

Vampire and necro forms have full access to all skillines (aside from werewolf) and all class skills as well as boosting your stats to absurd amounts ON TOP OF any buffs you have.

Werewolves have 5 limited skills and common buffs you should have anyway on a normal build with no insane stat boosts.

I genuinely don't understand the comparison here. They transform, yes, but that's where the similarities end. One necro going ult is basically god mode for so many seconds.

The comparison is all 3 are Ultimates that increase your base power substantially... 2 are very short burst (under 20seconds) ultis that end upon death even if your timer didnt...

Werewolf is basically permanent Ulti form, with a spammable half heal to full (or restore a large chunk of stamina), a spammable fear thats also an armor debuff, a leap, increased base stats, increased regen stats, damage reduction, increased weapon damage, increased light and heavy attack, bleed damage..... oh and it doesnt even end if you die, I'm sure I missed some other perk they get, [snip]

Werewolf is not treated as an ultimate in this game, it's treated as a sub class. The ultimate is just a way to indicate how long before you can transform again after losing it. Every comparison you make between Werewolves and other transformation ultimates has 0 merit as those abilities are allowed to be vastly more powerful because they are only available for a short duration.

If you want to play a werewolf, you basically choose a class with the passives you think best translate over while being transformed because you're barely ever going to use your actual class abilities if you do things right.

I'm not sure why you insisted on listing everything a werewolf has without listing everything regular classes have. They don't have vigor, they don't have purge, they don't have rally, they don't have rapids, they don't have half of most class passives active because they require something slotted, they don't have 12 skill bars, they have 5.

I don't even play one, but the 1s that are unkillable, build for it and they'd be just as unkillable in a regular class form as they are in werewolf form. Most classes can prebuff a bunch of abilities to kill an oponent, eg. a mag sorc proccing curse, mages wrath, ele weapon and meteor so they can kill you in 1 second vs a werewolf that has 5 skills and auto attacking. They don't have nearly as much setup, prebuffing or layering of heals/shields. Werewolves are meant to be simple and they're meant to use brute force by constantly attacking your oponent to kill or stay in ultimate, rather than setup into pay off like most of the classes in the game.

It's a playstyle that doesn't suit everyone. Plus.. if they were "op" we would see them everywhere like we use to when they had the unique 10k armor passive (now major resolve) the same way we see/saw everyone using Hrothgar/Dark Convergence.

But.. this has been explained to you above, if you're going to focus on the fact that the ultimate stays up forever vs ultimates that don't, you'll never be satisfied. I'd recommend trying one before you criticize them.

[edited to remove quote]

OP must have met some of the hard-core WW RP guild. Yep, RP guild because even in a group, WW is just not competitive. I mean you are just limiting yourself to a preset of skills with a lot of drawbacks without a clear benefit strong enough to justify it.

The only reason why someone is choosing to play as a WW in PvE & PvP is basically "fun" and RP to some degree. Yes, some people play for fun. In high mm bgs you don't see a lot of WW, if any at all.

And just btw. OP, WW is an "ultimate", but it does not operate like an ultimate in a classic meaning. It works more like a separate sub-class (and not particularly good one) with ulti being a "toggle" switch.

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

I'm guessing none of you would be so ok with something like this if it was a perma vamp ulti or perma necro ulti huh????

I'd do anything for a extendable duration Vampire ultimate, especially if while it was active functioned as it's own fighting style like in Skyrim. Right now it's just a full heal, stat boost, weak AoE DoT, and detect life spell for an insane cost. What you have to sacrifice to make the cost at least manageable is stretching things quite a bit, especially since the offensive power has been greatly overshadowed on magicka builds with all these hybrid changes. 10k magicka is not as appetizing as 1k spell damage today.

My guess is OP never played a werewolf.
I suggest trying it

Sorry if someone else mentioned this already and I missed it.

You can't really compare the vampire and werewolf ultimates because vampires get passives and abilities to use outside of their ult. A werewolf doesn't, you have to transform to access anything and then you only have your werewolf abilities.

On top of that both morphs of the vampire ultimate give you healing based on damage done. Add to that your class/weapon skill heals and shields you can still activate. Werewolves have only one healing skill that costs quite a bit of magicka so they can't exactly spam it.

Vevvev wrote: »

Werewolf is balanced around the ultimate staying up for as long as there are no corpses to eat or people to attack. They have been heavily nerfed and lost many of their unique tankiness passives, and their only heal costs Magicka and scales with max health. So in order for a werewolf to survive in PvP they need a ton of health and a lot of Magicka regeneration, which means the rest of their character is seriously lacking in many areas.

Remember, as a werewolf you're missing a second bar, a heal over time, no weapon passives, only one enchantment comes with you, and you can only use 5 abilities. I'd say leave them alone and learn how to kill them. Since they can't purge by themselves they're highly susceptible to debuffs and damage over time abilities. Also poison and Fighter's Guild abilities will mess them up quite well, and yes with the recent hybrid changes Magicka builds can easily equip Dawnbreaker so have fun with that ultimate.

They also have no detection.
They're forced to use a detect pot and if you manage to kite it around for 12 seconds they're completely at your NBs mercy.