Molag Kena's proc condition - why this set is collecting dust for many

Playnice · November 2021

Unless you plan on strictly ganking, the Molag Kena set "consecutive light attack" requirement is so awkward to incorporate into a smooth rotation that practically all dps leave it in their bags collecting dust. This set used to be a lot of fun to use when weaved light attacks would proc the 2pc bonus. Smooth efficient dps rotations is the bread and butter of this game –Molag Kena doesn’t fit in.

This is a plead to ZoS to consider changing the Molag Kena set to its former glory when weaved light attacks could proc the 2pc bonus.

Fennwitty · November 2021

But then you'd have almost no control over when it fires. It would just keep happening and increasing your ability costs.

Playnice · November 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

But then you'd have almost no control over when it fires. It would just keep happening and increasing your ability costs.

You could just use 2 skills in between light attacks so you'd still have full control. I'd imagine if someone had that much sustain issue they wouldn't want a set like Kena anyway.

YandereGirlfriend · November 2021

Definitely agree with this.

I also remember when they tried to turn it into a horrifyingly bad tank set - but that was at least quickly abandoned.

This set would be interesting with the change you note allowing for a perma-uptime of the bonus. It would actually be viable as a DPS set and it would have its own element of a kiss-curse (which the developers love) with the permanently increased ability costs (including ultimates). It would essentially be a rich man's New Moon Acolyte for builds going all-in Stacking Spell/Weapon Damage.

Ippokrates · November 2021

Running Molag on Bowden and it works fine with bugs, trap and endless hail. It is comparable with Master Staff where you need to lose 1 sec window to activate similar bonus for even less time ;p

Abstraqt · November 2021

Playnice wrote: »

Fennwitty wrote: »

But then you'd have almost no control over when it fires. It would just keep happening and increasing your ability costs.

You could just use 2 skills in between light attacks so you'd still have full control. I'd imagine if someone had that much sustain issue they wouldn't want a set like Kena anyway.

If you're using 2 skills in a row to NOT proc kena, isn't having to do 2 light attacks TO proc it just the same thing? 🤔

gariondavey · November 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

But then you'd have almost no control over when it fires. It would just keep happening and increasing your ability costs.

It is only an 8 percent increase. Not bad in my books! I would be ok with it being up 100 percent of the time.

Amottica · November 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

But then you'd have almost no control over when it fires. It would just keep happening and increasing your ability costs.

This is a good point. As I understand, this set was once favorable for some top builds. That being the case the proc condition is not the issue as to why it isn’t used much anymore.

BXR_Lonestar · November 2021

My experience is it is great on a werewolf build focused mainly on light attacks (thoughtless proc, not using a lot of abilities anyways so cost increase doesn't matter), but not really good on anything else.

Syrpynt · November 2021

There ARE builds for it. You just don't like that your build doesn't suit it.

Weaving and animation cancelling don't always have to be:

Light attack --> Ability cancel --> repeat

Think about builds using light attacks... There are a TON. I have one two! The only reason I don't use Molag is because the Shock effect on the arms when it's active. My NB and Warden both strictly use light attack "focused" sets. I prefer it stays preferrable for a light attack build because there are plenty of other sets like Balorgh's that gives you more power and penetration too, and it's when you use an ultimate--which no one is telling people to use Meteor with Balorgh (+200 ultimate build-up playing solo), but for a NB Soul Harvest (< 80) --it's perfect!

es4eva · November 2021

I run this on my less than meta Templar pseudo tank. Even with 5 pieces of heavy and 2 light, he gets 7000+ spell damage, 12k penetration, and ~50% crit self buffed. The spell damage from 1 piece and the proc from two piece is really nice. Plus it has a great animation.

Playnice · November 2021

Syrpynt wrote: »

There ARE builds for it. You just don't like that your build doesn't suit it.

Not at all what this thread was about. This thread relates to the awkwardness of proccing the set compared to what it used to be like - not about if there were any possible builds that could be relevant using the current mechanics of the set. (And definitely not about any of my specify builds)

Syrpynt · November 2021

Playnice wrote: »

...Not at all what this thread was about. This thread relates to the awkwardness of proccing the set compared to what it used to be like...

Playnice wrote: »

...the Molag Kena set "consecutive light attack" requirement is so awkward to incorporate into a smooth rotation...

Seems contradictory to me. You want to change how the set activates back to how it used to, but because everyone already does the rotation how I mentioned above, have you ever tried doing a different rotation to activate this set? It's not only a cost increase, but it also costs the player their standard rotation. Another set that does this is Blood Moon. Should we change blood moon also to suit the meta weaving? Or should we let players do something different than LA-->ability cancel--> repeat?

They increased the cost (5% to 8%) a couple years ago because other players were adapating to this alternative weaving.

Molag + Storm Master + Some crit/LA set = Theme build focused on Shock FX and heavy/light attacks.

Heavy attack (Storm Master) -->
*** LA --> Weapon Swap cancel --> LA --> Ability --> Repeat from *** until Storm Master procs again.

An alternative to Storm master would be Undaunted Unweaver since it increases LA damage. Blood moon also works because it lets you light attack more, and do more damage per light attack to save some resources at the cost of overall dps.

TL;DR:
If every set required LA-->Ability Cancel--> repeat, I'd be so bored playing this game. Not every set is going to be the best set, and what you're asking for is: "Please make this monster set the new-old meta again, pretty please?" And I disagree.

Playnice · November 2021

@Syrpynt Appreciate you talking the time to write a lengthy response, I'm still not convinced though. Your key points are unrelated to what I'm trying to convey. I can tell by your pejorative response that something triggered you. Sorry if you are triggered.

Just to clear it up:

Bloodmoon is a completely unrelated set mechanic to this topic, I don't know what you're asking about adapting Bloodmoon to weaving, that makes no sense here.

You say "If every set required LA-->Ability Cancel--> repeat, " What?? EVERY set? We are talking about 1 monster set. No one is asking them to buff Molag Kena to be the best monster set - this topic was supposed to be about how the set mechanic is procced using 2 consecutive light attacks.

So what are ALL the sets your talking about that require LA-->Ability Cancel?

Syrpynt · November 2021

Playnice wrote: »

So what are ALL the sets your talking about that require LA-->Ability Cancel?

The standard basic animation cancel for weaving light attacks and abilities is what was mentioned.

The only ones that force you to break from that routine (in order to make the set effective) are Blood Moon, Molag Kena, and possibly Savage Werewolf if there are many adds to make the 4 seconds count most. ***EDIT: Forgot to mention the Heavy attack sets. Those also force players to heavy attack instead of light attack in their weaving to accomplish some sort of proc. Heavy attack sets are never going to be top tier like others. So why did ZoS make them that way? Because if it followed a standard weaving, it would be broke--and then nerfed--then no one would even try it because at least with the heavy attack you get some resources back, vs a bunch of weak proc set damage from a nerf.

If you change Molag Kena to be how it used to, the bonus Weapon/Spell damage will be nerfed as a result. There are too many sources of "free" power that doesn't require specific scenarios, and I think you're asking for a change that breaks balance. I tried giving a reason that the set(s) focus on deviating from the meta weaving. But if you don't understand that the non-meta weaving was intentional to avoid power-gap, then I don't know how else to convince you.

Molag Kena's proc (that you proposed) would then be stronger than NMA, and thus breaking power gap, or rendering NMA redundant or weaker and to be replaced.

techprince · November 2021

I am using it on my Breton Magplar in 4-man dungeons and arenas.

acw37162 · November 2021

I really wish they would re-think this.

I think a viable alternative without killing this spirit of it would be.

Consecutive light attacks or lights attacks separated by a buff skill or a skill like crystal weapon or the light / heavy attack skill in the psijic skill line.

This keeps the light attack requirement, allows you to use abilities just not direct or damage over time abilities but players could create builds and rotations to utilize the buff.

I also don't like this mechanic in the new mythic item.

Another solution is change the conditions, something like,

Two light attacks within "1.5 or 2.0" seconds and adding an activation condition like a heavy attack, dodge roll, or bash.

I really like the heavy attack activation of the new mythic and was really excited right up until PTS when they gutted it.

I envisioned a normal rotation of light attack - ability X 5 to charge the ring then a heavy attack once everything lined up

Syrpynt · November 2021

acw37162 wrote: »

I really wish they would re-think this.

I think a viable alternative without killing this spirit of it would be.

Consecutive light attacks or lights attacks separated by a buff skill or a skill like crystal weapon or the light / heavy attack skill in the psijic skill line.

This keeps the light attack requirement, allows you to use abilities just not direct or damage over time abilities but players could create builds and rotations to utilize the buff.

I also don't like this mechanic in the new mythic item.

Another solution is change the conditions, something like,

Two light attacks within "1.5 or 2.0" seconds and adding an activation condition like a heavy attack, dodge roll, or bash.

I really like the heavy attack activation of the new mythic and was really excited right up until PTS when they gutted it.

I envisioned a normal rotation of light attack - ability X 5 to charge the ring then a heavy attack once everything lined up

Most competitive players don't like anything that deviates from the standard rotation. So of course that stuff gets gutted before live... They gutted making Heavy attacks stronger than multiple light attacks 2 springs ago. I would've welcomed the option as it would give different playstyles a chance to be competitive. But instead the same players that scoff "Pfft, who HEAVY attacks in PvP?" are the same ones saying "No! Don't make Heavy attacks stronger than multiple light attacks!" because they'd have to slow down their animation cancelling and thus their burst/scores would drop. ZoS gets revenue from these streamers, from advertising the game and promoting it. So it's basically a sellout when they pit the game this way until the end of time.