proc aoe damage from total number of buffs on target

PvXGamer · October 2021

Just like the title says. If you want to combat ball groups, give us a PvP set with a small initial damage proc and then has additional damage scale off of the total number of buffs on the target and then explodes in an aoe. This would make the set near useless in PvE and only useful in PvP against large numbers of players...

If you look at player behavior, when do you have a massive number of buffs running on people? In some groups, most trials, and all ball groups.

neferpitou73 · October 2021

Or you guys could just form your own groups and get those buffs yourself. I really don't get this mentality that solo players need to be able to wipe groups.

techyeshic · October 2021

Yes. We need to punish players that actually keep their buffs up, by having a set do it automatically.

This entire thing of rewarding less effort more than others who put in more effort in PvP is why this games PvP is struggling

PvXGamer · October 2021

Ha! I've been in plenty of groups and none of them has ever been nearly unkillable like these ball groups we see on PC-NA coming out of the AD and DC factions.

Kwoung · October 2021

PvXGamer wrote: »

Ha! I've been in plenty of groups and none of them has ever been nearly unkillable like these ball groups we see on PC-NA coming out of the AD and DC factions.

The "unkillable" (they are very killable btw) ball groups have spent countless months/years practicing, perfecting synergized builds, rotations, studying mechanics, etc... They have actually put extreme effort in to gitin gud, which is something most of the people complaining about them haven't, and no amount of stupidly over powered proc sets are going to change the balance. ZOS: lets target purge - Good Groups: Fine, we won't use it anymore.. and they still roll you like a scrub.

xylena_lazarow · October 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Or you guys could just form your own groups and get those buffs yourself. I really don't get this mentality that solo players need to be able to wipe groups.

"If you want to counter ballgroups, play in a ballgroup!"

You can perhaps see where this would not appeal to many players, or be interpreted as "lol git gud."

neferpitou73 · October 2021

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Or you guys could just form your own groups and get those buffs yourself. I really don't get this mentality that solo players need to be able to wipe groups.

"If you want to counter ballgroups, play in a ballgroup!"

You can perhaps see where this would not appeal to many players, or be interpreted as "lol git gud."

Because that's exactly what I'm saying

You can't walk into the large scale PvP mode and expect to wipe a group of players by yourself unless you have a lot of skill. What a lot of people are calling for on here is an insta-win button.

PvXGamer · October 2021

This was started in an attempt to bring to light a counter to these balls groups considering I've watched numerous instances of 8-12 players running around inside a keep, that no longer belongs to them, for 20-30 minutes, before being killed by the 30-40 players attempting to take them down and I assume they only die because they run out of resources and/or items to sustain the complete and utter BS that I, and I'm sure many others, have witnessed.

If you think what I described is fair play, then don't complain about things like dark convergence considering it only requires keeping a little stamina in reserve to negate it.

lolo_01b16_ESO · October 2021

While I understand your intention, I doubt that a set like this would do much good. Keep in mind that there are a lot of buffs in this game. Many of them add no or only tiny benefits to the player and just happen to be there passively.

I guess the result of a set like this would be that organized groups will adjust there builds to only use the most powerful buffs,
while average players who simply skill everything they can will be oneshot by such a set.

neferpitou73 · October 2021

PvXGamer wrote: »

This was started in an attempt to bring to light a counter to these balls groups considering I've watched numerous instances of 8-12 players running around inside a keep, that no longer belongs to them, for 20-30 minutes, before being killed by the 30-40 players attempting to take them down and I assume they only die because they run out of resources and/or items to sustain the complete and utter BS that I, and I'm sure many others, have witnessed.

If you think what I described is fair play, then don't complain about things like dark convergence considering it only requires keeping a little stamina in reserve to negate it.

Yes 12 palyers who train, synchronize their builds and who have generally been playing the game for years are going to slaughter a mob of randoms. Especially if the have good LOS and choke points. I'm not sure why this is a shock to anyone or why it should play out any differently.

DC was always going to be abused by these groups. As have most of the sets added in to combat them.

xylena_lazarow · October 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Yes 12 palyers who train, synchronize their builds and who have generally been playing the game for years are going to slaughter a mob of randoms.

A properly executed ballgroup that stays moving simply can't be killed by disorganized randoms. The usual result isn't "slaughter" so much as a stalemate between 12 guys running laps around the roof and 60 chasing them for an hour, until the ballgroup screws up or gets bored. Is this good for the game? Seems to breed a lot of resentment.

Kwoung · October 2021

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Yes 12 palyers who train, synchronize their builds and who have generally been playing the game for years are going to slaughter a mob of randoms.

A properly executed ballgroup that stays moving simply can't be killed by disorganized randoms. The usual result isn't "slaughter" so much as a stalemate between 12 guys running laps around the roof and 60 chasing them for an hour, until the ballgroup screws up or gets bored. Is this good for the game? Seems to breed a lot of resentment.

[snip]

Hey, I keep jumping in front of cars and they keep running me over: NERF CARS or make them SELF DESTRUCT when they hit me!

[edited for baiting]

DrSlaughtr · October 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Yes 12 palyers who train, synchronize their builds and who have generally been playing the game for years are going to slaughter a mob of randoms.

A properly executed ballgroup that stays moving simply can't be killed by disorganized randoms. The usual result isn't "slaughter" so much as a stalemate between 12 guys running laps around the roof and 60 chasing them for an hour, until the ballgroup screws up or gets bored. Is this good for the game? Seems to breed a lot of resentment.

[snip]

Hey, I keep jumping in front of cars and they keep running me over: NERF CARS or make them SELF DESTRUCT when they hit me!

What exactly do you think a comp group will do if you just leave them in a keep/castle/fort? Just give up because there's no one to kill? They'll take the place. They'll take the scroll too if there's one there. If you don't try to get it back they will take it home.

Ball groups want a fight but if you just run away they'll gladly run the map until you have no choice but to fight. Every time someone suggests this tactic I wonder if they've ever run in a ball group.

[edited to remove quote]

Andre_Noir · October 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

ball groups have spent countless months/years practicing

My favorite story full of coldness.
I expect that they need another couple years of practice to find sieges and objectives so can be useful for own faction instead of annoy ppl by aerobic after someone else did all job

xylena_lazarow · October 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

Hey, I keep jumping in front of cars and they keep running me over: NERF CARS or make them SELF DESTRUCT when they hit me!

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Ball groups want a fight but if you just run away they'll gladly run the map until you have no choice but to fight.

Disorganized randoms simply cannot kill a hardcore ballgroup in the current meta. It's 100% futile to even try, unless you yourself are also with a hardcore ballgroup. At some point the disorganized randoms are going to realize this, and the ballgroups are going to be left to PvDoor and run scrolls with no one chasing them.

PvXGamer · October 2021

I really need to start recording these ball groups I encounter in cyro. There are certain behaviors that are inherent in auto programs that you see some of these ball groups exhibiting. I say some, NOT all of them. When the only response to these observations is "get gud" or "randoms can't kill organized", it shows to me at least, either a very closed-minded perspective or someone who is part of the problem.

12 people should in no way be able to be for all intents and purposes 'immortal' when fighting 40 others. The sheer number of buffs that are being used/stacked by ball groups should have a counter, hence the suggestion for a set that does exactly that. The set would be less than useful in any situation OTHER than against a ball group if it was implemented in the manner suggested. When was the last time you had 15+ buffs on you outside of mundus, food, and your own passives? You don't see the number of buffs I'm referring to in solo play, you don't see that if you are out of range of the sourceS of the buffs and it would be near, if not completely useless, in PvE.

NotTaylorSwift · October 2021

PvXGamer wrote: »

I really need to start recording these ball groups I encounter in cyro. There are certain behaviors that are inherent in auto programs that you see some of these ball groups exhibiting. I say some, NOT all of them. When the only response to these observations is "get gud" or "randoms can't kill organized", it shows to me at least, either a very closed-minded perspective or someone who is part of the problem.

12 people should in no way be able to be for all intents and purposes 'immortal' when fighting 40 others. The sheer number of buffs that are being used/stacked by ball groups should have a counter, hence the suggestion for a set that does exactly that. The set would be less than useful in any situation OTHER than against a ball group if it was implemented in the manner suggested. When was the last time you had 15+ buffs on you outside of mundus, food, and your own passives? You don't see the number of buffs I'm referring to in solo play, you don't see that if you are out of range of the sourceS of the buffs and it would be near, if not completely useless, in PvE.

Warden:
major sorcery,
major brutality,
major resolve,
major heroism,
major expedition,
major protection,
minor protection,
minor toughness,
minor beserk.

Also has access to:
major prophecy/savegery (pots or class skill),
minor intellect,
minor endurance,
major intellect (pots),
major endurance (pots),
major fortiude (pots),
major mending,
major evasion (if in 5 medium or dual wield).

Not to mention buffs applied by others:
minor prophecy/savegery (sorc or nb),
minor sorcery (templar),
major courage (if playing with olo or a healer with olo/spc)
minor resolve (if playing with a healer or if using magma incarnate)

I've probably missed some but... you get the picture. It's not hard to have 15 buffs. And IF you are actually counting mundus and food then thats another 2 0.0.

If the only buffs you have are mundus, food and a couple of passives then something is wrong and that's on you.

neferpitou73 · October 2021

PvXGamer wrote: »

I really need to start recording these ball groups I encounter in cyro. There are certain behaviors that are inherent in auto programs that you see some of these ball groups exhibiting. I say some, NOT all of them. When the only response to these observations is "get gud" or "randoms can't kill organized", it shows to me at least, either a very closed-minded perspective or someone who is part of the problem.

12 people should in no way be able to be for all intents and purposes 'immortal' when fighting 40 others. The sheer number of buffs that are being used/stacked by ball groups should have a counter, hence the suggestion for a set that does exactly that. The set would be less than useful in any situation OTHER than against a ball group if it was implemented in the manner suggested. When was the last time you had 15+ buffs on you outside of mundus, food, and your own passives? You don't see the number of buffs I'm referring to in solo play, you don't see that if you are out of range of the sourceS of the buffs and it would be near, if not completely useless, in PvE.

Ball groups stack no more buffs than the average endgame trial group They just use that coordination to kill players and not AIs. With 12 players in a group it is stupidly easy to get a ton of buffs, not even accounting for sets either, just from skills and abilities.

All these demands will amount to is taking away the only large group PvP mode in the game away from people who like playing there. If ZOS added a true guild v guild I would have more sympathy for these demands. But as it stands Cyrodiil is the only way optimized groups can compete against each other in PvP. If you like small scale play Battlegrounds or IC. But if you want to play solo or small scale in Cyrodiil don't be upset when you get run over by the groups who have nowhere else to play.

Cyrodiil can't afford to lose what little ball groups remain. The Cyrodiil pops have taken a massive hit already and on certain factions ball groups are the only things standing in the way of zergs overrunning the map.

xylena_lazarow · October 2021

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Cyrodiil can't afford to lose what little ball groups remain. The Cyrodiil pops have taken a massive hit already and on certain factions ball groups are the only things standing in the way of zergs overrunning the map.

So with ballgroups more powerful than ever, why are there fewer ballgroup players than ever?

neferpitou73 · October 2021

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Cyrodiil can't afford to lose what little ball groups remain. The Cyrodiil pops have taken a massive hit already and on certain factions ball groups are the only things standing in the way of zergs overrunning the map.

So with ballgroups more powerful than ever, why are there fewer ballgroup players than ever?

Because a new game came out that actually works

Joy_Division · October 2021

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Cyrodiil can't afford to lose what little ball groups remain. The Cyrodiil pops have taken a massive hit already and on certain factions ball groups are the only things standing in the way of zergs overrunning the map.

So with ballgroups more powerful than ever, why are there fewer ballgroup players than ever?

Because ESO just isn't fun to play anymore. Poor performance, no discernible development direction, reliance on proc sets to solve problems/change meta, no full time PvP developer, erosion of class identity, so many different formats of PvP I have to study non ESO websites just to figure out what I am eligible to equip as gear, etc.

No thanks.

xylena_lazarow · October 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

so many different formats of PvP I have to study non ESO websites just to figure out what I am eligible to equip as gear

I'm just glad someone else is as annoyed by this as I am. I would've thought after all the CP and proc reworks that we could finally have all the PvP modes playing by the same rules, but no...