Fake puzzles in quests

HowellQagan · October 2021

Is it only me who's annoyed by these fake puzzles in the last 2-3 years of DLC quests where it's made to look like you've got a mystery but all you need to do to solve it is spam interact until it locks into the correct solution? Why even add a "puzzle" then?

pdblake · October 2021

You mean like the weird rune lock things in Blackwood? Yeah I thought the same. Why bother?

Saying that I don't want proper puzzles either. If I wanted puzzles I'd play a puzzle game.

alanmatillab16_ESO · October 2021

What is the point of making intricately designed puzzles when all that will happen is most players will look the solution up online anyway if they cannot figure it out in the first 5 seconds.

SickleCider · October 2021

I'm even more disturbed by all the map padding starting to happen. You see it on the Doomvaults distinctly. You go through a door, into a corridor, that has nothing in it (no mobs, nothing to interact with) to go through another door. WHYYYYYYYYYYY

whitecrow · October 2021

The rotating blocks one was lame. That's the only one I remember.
Even the NPC dialogue timing was off. She was saying "you got it!" before it even started to glow.

HowellQagan · October 2021

whitecrow wrote: »

The rotating blocks one was lame. That's the only one I remember.
Even the NPC dialogue timing was off. She was saying "you got it!" before it even started to glow.

And Markarth had stuff like this too, and one of the prologues, either Markarth or Western Skyrim.

AcadianPaladin · October 2021

I find solving an easy puzzle in game to be much more immersive than encountering a hard puzzle, opening a walk-through to solve it and then solving it. I'm actually quite pleased that ESO only rarely pulls me out of game to consult a walk-through.

Vevvev · October 2021

I miss the puzzles where you actually had to get the puzzle right. Now you just press one of the rotation pillars until it glows or something. I know it slows down story progression for some people but this puzzle illusion is more than a waste of time, it's an insult to a player's intelligence. I don't mind basic puzzles as long as they're actually puzzles y'know?

VaranisArano · October 2021

Varanis Arano, Mirri, and Eveli stand outside of the towering, gleaming bulk of the doomvault.

Eveli says, "Look, I think the symbols on those red cubes match the book! Maybe if we make the symbols match on the cubes the doomvault doors will open."

Mirri checks the symbols. "You're right! Eveli, read us the symbols."

Eveli reads out, "Well, the first one looks like a squiggly tree, and-"

The doomvault doors grind open as Varanis dusts off her hands, looking pleased with herself.

"How did you do that?" Mirri asks, pouting a little. "I'm supposed to be the daedrologist."

"Oh, I just poked the cubes until they did something."

"That's it?" Eveli packs up the Mysterium Xarses, sounding disappointed. "We didn't even need the book."

"Yep. That's pretty much the secret to adventuring right there: poke it until something happens. Or look on the wall. You'd be surprised how many ancient Khajiiti temples hid the answer to their riddles in plain sight on their wall."

opaj · October 2021

There were some interesting puzzles in Orsinium and Vvardenfell. I don't think puzzles should be a frequent thing, but... I guess I don't see the point of ones like the doomvault locks in Blackwood.

How about this: instead of fake puzzles, give us real puzzles that don't block progress if you don't figure it out. A puzzle that unlocks a shortcut, or grants a special buff for the next boss fight, or something like that.

Sylvermynx · October 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Varanis Arano, Mirri, and Eveli stand outside of the towering, gleaming bulk of the doomvault.

Eveli says, "Look, I think the symbols on those red cubes match the book! Maybe if we make the symbols match on the cubes the doomvault doors will open."

Mirri checks the symbols. "You're right! Eveli, read us the symbols."

Eveli reads out, "Well, the first one looks like a squiggly tree, and-"

The doomvault doors grind open as Varanis dusts off her hands, looking pleased with herself.

"How did you do that?" Mirri asks, pouting a little. "I'm supposed to be the daedrologist."

"Oh, I just poked the cubes until they did something."

"That's it?" Eveli packs up the Mysterium Xarses, sounding disappointed. "We didn't even need the book."

"Yep. That's pretty much the secret to adventuring right there: poke it until something happens. Or look on the wall. You'd be surprised how many ancient Khajiiti temples hid the answer to their riddles in plain sight on their wall."

Best laugh I've had in weeks! Thanks Varanis!

Fennwitty · October 2021

pdblake wrote: »

You mean like the weird rune lock things in Blackwood? Yeah I thought the same. Why bother?

Saying that I don't want proper puzzles either. If I wanted puzzles I'd play a puzzle game.

"I've turned this one to the left twice and nothing has happened! I'm completely screwed and lost!"

*Turns it left one more time. Clicks.*

"Whew I can't believe I solved that ancient mystery lock that kept the worlds from merging!"

SeaGtGruff · October 2021

I, for one, do NOT miss the rotating puzzles of ESO5:Skyrim where there are 3 rotating totems, each having several possible positions, and you have to try every possible combination until you finally hit upon the correct one. There are a few locations that have clues in the room which help you narrow down the number of possible combinations to just a few, but there are other locations with no such clues.

It's nice that ESO has mostly avoided those sorts of tedious puzzles, although I agree that the trend toward "it's impossible to get it wrong" puzzles is less than ideal.

Fenris_Arainai · October 2021

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I, for one, do NOT miss the rotating puzzles of ESO5:Skyrim where there are 3 rotating totems, each having several possible positions, and you have to try every possible combination until you finally hit upon the correct one. There are a few locations that have clues in the room which help you narrow down the number of possible combinations to just a few, but there are other locations with no such clues.

They usually had answers on the hand-key that you had to use to open them.

SeaGtGruff · October 2021

Fenris_Arainai wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I, for one, do NOT miss the rotating puzzles of ESO5:Skyrim where there are 3 rotating totems, each having several possible positions, and you have to try every possible combination until you finally hit upon the correct one. There are a few locations that have clues in the room which help you narrow down the number of possible combinations to just a few, but there are other locations with no such clues.

They usually had answers on the hand-key that you had to use to open them.

I'm not talking about the big round door puzzles that have dragon-claw keys. I'm talking about the puzzles with 3 separate totems or whatever you want to call them, which rotate to show different carvings. Sometimes there are carvings up on the walls near each one to show you which icon you need to rotate it to, but sometimes 1 of them is missing, and sometimes you can't see any such "clues." In those cases, not only do you need to try every possible combination, but sometimes you even need to figure out which side of the totem is the one you're supposed to be looking at, because the totems might not all face in exactly the same direction.

whitecrow · October 2021

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Fenris_Arainai wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I, for one, do NOT miss the rotating puzzles of ESO5:Skyrim where there are 3 rotating totems, each having several possible positions, and you have to try every possible combination until you finally hit upon the correct one. There are a few locations that have clues in the room which help you narrow down the number of possible combinations to just a few, but there are other locations with no such clues.

They usually had answers on the hand-key that you had to use to open them.

I'm not talking about the big round door puzzles that have dragon-claw keys. I'm talking about the puzzles with 3 separate totems or whatever you want to call them, which rotate to show different carvings. Sometimes there are carvings up on the walls near each one to show you which icon you need to rotate it to, but sometimes 1 of them is missing, and sometimes you can't see any such "clues." In those cases, not only do you need to try every possible combination, but sometimes you even need to figure out which side of the totem is the one you're supposed to be looking at, because the totems might not all face in exactly the same direction.

I think sometimes there was a book nearby with clues? Or was that just in this game.

Sylvermynx · October 2021

The clues for those were generally above on a wall, or on (in outdoor ones) pylons nearby - that sort of thing. The worst one I remember was in whatever "delve" it was where you had to kill Luah Al'Skavan - you had to IIRC read the book in order to get the totems in the right order. The first time I did that, the book got blown on the floor while fighting whatever it was as you arrive - fire atronach? Don't really remember now. Anyway, it was a total PITA until I stumbled over the book behind the table.

DarcyMardin · October 2021

Agreed. I’d be happy with no more puzzles, fake or real.

Red_Feather · October 2021

I like puzzles. Is too bad I know others don't. Secret World had some doozey puzzles. One of the quests you had to die to get into the place with the ghost. I had to look that one up and then I remembered it for another quest which I solved by myself!

Sylvermynx · October 2021

I really only like jigsaw puzzles. I'm not much into "serious" puzzles in games - anything more serious than the ones in Skyrim or ESO are for me a complete turn-off.

whitecrow · October 2021

I love puzzles! But the ones in ES are never that interesting. Not that I can recall anyway.

ZiggyTStardust · October 2021

I remember being stuck on some of the Wrothgar puzzles for a while, that was fun. Even though I think I just brute forced them

DreamsUnderStars · October 2021

Meh! Puzzles in mmos tend to be either so simple they are insulting or they are so hard I just look them up. Happy Mediums are impossible since what I find obnoxious a forum troll will claim they solved it in seconds (I honestly don't care if they did or not).

oddbasket · October 2021

Yup, how easy that Blackwood one is was puzzling.

katanagirl1 · October 2021

I guess I’m alright with just rotating the puzzle cube until it works.

I seem to remember one or more puzzles in Markarth where you were supposed to do something with constellations, and the game seemed to expect me to know what they looked like and I had no reference for them.

thorwyn · October 2021

Riddles, puzzles and traps are bread and butter elements in Fantasy storytelling. The problem of implementing them into a game is the good old conflict between character and player knowledge/abilities. If you hit a key, your character will perform an action, cast a powerful spell or do a swing a fancy blow with his sword. The player can trigger the event, but the effect of the action is determined by the abilities of the character not the player. Now with puzzles, it's the other way round. Now the character becomes more or less inactive while the player has to do all the work and come up with a solution. Regardless whether your character is a dumb barbarian or a 200+ IQ wizard, he does not help you solving the puzzle.

That's why developers either skip puzzles entirely, or design them the way they are desinged in ESO. I look at them as just a way of presenting a part of a story, just like a dialogue or a cut scene.

zaria · October 2021

I say its an pretty old thing, thinking of the first thief guild quest to get the the skull with Queen.
On the other hand, the entire thing was an trap and having an very hard lock before the trap would not make sense.

HowellQagan · October 2021

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I, for one, do NOT miss the rotating puzzles of ESO5:Skyrim where there are 3 rotating totems, each having several possible positions, and you have to try every possible combination until you finally hit upon the correct one. There are a few locations that have clues in the room which help you narrow down the number of possible combinations to just a few, but there are other locations with no such clues.

It's nice that ESO has mostly avoided those sorts of tedious puzzles, although I agree that the trend toward "it's impossible to get it wrong" puzzles is less than ideal.

>ESO5:Skyrim
The what now?

Anyway, it literally showed the correct symbols as orange glowing floaty thingies in the latest one in Blackwood, they even turned with the player (i.e. no matter from which direction you looked at them, they showed the same character, so not mirrored or anything).
All they had to do is make it so it doesn't lock the correct solution until all 3 (or 4 at the very last location) cubes were set to the correct symbol.

thorwyn wrote: »

I look at them as just a way of presenting a part of a story, just like a dialogue or a cut scene.

Why make me press E two-three times for each cube if they don't even want me to solve a puzzle? Hell, just make it automatic then.

colossalvoids · October 2021

Trying to go both ways never really works.

They want to engage players in some small intellectual activity and also doing it like we're seeing now - a toddler would do it in couple of clicks max. They want last quest boss to be engaging with all the roleplay phases to imitate mechanics but you can do those barefist etc. It's deliberate design choice, same with dialogues making us feel stupid because they're players that need those and are many.

pdblake · October 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

pdblake wrote: »

You mean like the weird rune lock things in Blackwood? Yeah I thought the same. Why bother?

Saying that I don't want proper puzzles either. If I wanted puzzles I'd play a puzzle game.

"I've turned this one to the left twice and nothing has happened! I'm completely screwed and lost!"

*Turns it left one more time. Clicks.*

"Whew I can't believe I solved that ancient mystery lock that kept the worlds from merging!"

Yeah, that one

Danikat · October 2021

I like puzzles in games, including the ones which get me completely stuck for a while and take a bunch of tries to figure it out, those are often the most memorable.

I realise that not everyone enjoys that and many people seem to see ESO as a purely combat focused game where the only challenge or delay to completing content should be combat (how many times have people said they click through dialogue as fast as possible?).

But I can't imagine the current implementation is enjoyable for anyone. For people who like puzzles it's little more than token inclusion, you get the impression of a puzzles without any of the things which actually make it enjoyable, and for people who don't like them it's just another bunch of irrelevant clicking which isn't combat and so is just a delay. What is it achieving other than disappointing everyone?

I like the idea of optional puzzles which aren't required if you just want to complete the delve or quest or whatever, but are there for those who want an extra challenge and give something nice but non-essential like a buff or a few extra (generic) rewards. So skipping it would be like not bothering to find and open all the treasure chests, or read all the lore books, but it's still there for people who want the extra activity.