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800k people don't seem to mind difficult overworld
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cptqrk✭✭✭Okay, time to go over some of the mental gymnastics going on here. This is not singling out anyone in particular, just what I've seen posted, and re-posted over the last.... dear gods... 41 (now 42!) pages.
Lots of people want a more difficult over world!
(Good for you, it has been said, and conveniently glossed over or all out ignored that the developers have said no they do not think that it would be in the best interest of the game based on internal figures)
Make it a slider/toggle! That way it won't affect other people playing!
(Again, conveniently glossed over or all out ignored that the developers have said they will not split the server population)
It would be super easy! Just make a toggle! Or a slider! It doesn't take any developer time to make all the over world mobs harder!
(Even as a non programmer, you know this is not as simple as you are presenting it to be)
No, not just buff the mob damage and HP! Make them do stuff! It's super easy! Should take no development time at all!
(Again, not that simple. New animations, new skills, new ways to balance said skills is not easy. Side note: what is easy mode for you may be hard mode for others, and what is hard mode for you may be baby's first MMO to others. How do you 'satisfy' all? You do what ZOS has done. Put harder content away behind dungeons, world bosses, and trails, regular and veteran modes)
Servers already 'split' the server population! Having a totally separate hard mode would make it so they don't have to deal with the harder stuff!
(Please, the server instancing/mirroring/sharding what ever you want to call it, is a result of how large MMOs keep the servers stable. They are dynamic and ebb and flow via server population. A totally separate hard mode would remove the hard mode players from the regular ebb and flow and will split the server population, thus leading us to the next point)
Come on guys! There wont be enough people who want a more difficult over world that it would affect the general over world population.
(So what is it? ZOS should cater to this idea because soo many people want it, but it's not enough people to want it to actually change the server population? Pick one, please)
I think I know more about the financial and analytical numbers behind ESO than the developers do!
(Right, you know all about how much money ZOS is making. You have more knowledge of what content is getting played than ZOS does. You have access to all the data, and all the other information that you would need to make a decision about what is best for the game. You do not. They do)
There are literally hundreds of thousands of people playing the new shiny MMO! If ZOS doesn't change the game to the way I want it, ESO is DEAD!
(Ahh yes, the 'new hotness'. Like many before it, and many to follow. The game is already showing it's poor lack of planning. PVP is a joke. Few even flag for PVP, but let me give you a tip, the best way to win a large battle? Mass report the opponent's leader, thus instantly banning them from the game. Banking tied to factions? That's not going to affect faction population at all, or will it.. hint.. the answer is yes it will and already does. Did you ever play classic WoW? Did the fact that the servers were so lop sided to one faction make the game more fun? Copy pasted towns tilted on the map to face the entrance in a different direction? The innovation will surely be the end of ever other MMO! Virtually no story? Who needs story when it's hard mode right? I wish the new game well, it sure did look pretty when I played it, but it's not a threat, and it won't be for quite a long time)
Wilful ignorance to all the hard evidence that has been provided by people in this thread, do not a good argument make.
You want harder over world content? Good! I don't want you to think I don't want you to have fun! Go find it! That's the great thing about the internet these days. You can find what you like!
ESO though, has found it's niche. I hope you can appreciate that, I know I do.
[Edited for spelling mistakes and upping the page number! Jone and Jode! 42 pages of this?! LOL)Edited by cptqrk on October 19, 2021 12:19AM11 -
Ballermfrau✭✭✭Okay, time to go over some of the mental gymnastics going on here. This is not singling out anyone in perticular, just what I've seen posted, and re-posted over the last.... dear gods... 41 pages.
Lots of people want a more difficult over world!
(Good for you, it has been said, and conveniently glossed over or all out ignored that the developers have said no they do not think that it would be in the best interest of the game based on internal figures)
Make it a slider/toggle! That way it won't affect other people playing!
(Again, conveniently glossed over or all out ignored that the developers have said they will not split the server population)
It would be super easy! Just make a toggle! Or a slider! It doesn't take any developer time to make all the over world mobs harder!
(Even as a non programmer, you know this is not as simple as you are presenting it to be)
No, not just buff the mob damage and HP! Make them do stuff! It's super easy! Should take no development time at all!
(Again, not that simple. New animations, new skills, new ways to balance said skills is not easy. Side note: what is easy mode for you may be hard mode for others, and what is hard mode for you may be baby's first MMO to others. How do you 'satisfy' all? You do what ZOS has done. Put harder content away behind dungeons, world bosses, and trails, regular and veteran modes)
Servers already 'split' the server population! Having a totally separate hard mode would make it so they don't have to deal with the harder stuff!
(Please, the server instancing/mirroring/sharding what ever you want to call it, is a result of how large MMOs keep the servers stable. They are dynamic and ebb and flow via server population. A totally separate hard mode would remove the hard mode players from the regular ebb and flow and will split the server population, thus leading us to the next point)
Come on guys! There wont be enough people who want a more difficult over world that it would affect the general over world population.
(So what is it? ZOS should cater to this idea because soo many people want it, but it's not enough people to want it to actually change the server population? Pick one, please)
I think I know more about the financial and analytical numbers behind ESO than the developers do!
(Right, you know all about how much money ZOS is making. You have more knowledge of what content is getting played than ZOS does. You have access to all the data, and all the other information that you would need to make a decision about what is best for the game. You do not. They do)
There are literally hundreds of thousands of people playing the new shiny MMO! If ZOS doesn't change the game to the way I want it, ESO is DEAD!
(Ahh yes, the 'new hotness'. Like many before it, and many to follow. The game is already showing it's poor lack of planning. PVP is a joke. Few even flag for PVP, but let me give you a tip, the best way to win a large battle? Mass report the opponent's leader, thus instantly banning them from the game. Banking tied to factions? That's not going to affect faction population at all, or will it.. hint.. the answer is yes it will and already does. Did you ever play classic WoW? Did the fact that the servers were so lop sided to one faction make the game more fun? Copy pasted towns tilted on the map to face the entrance in a different direction? The innovation will surely be the end of ever other MMO! Virtually no story? Who needs story when it's hard mode right? I wish the new game well, it sure did look pretty when I played it, but it's not a threat, and it won't be for quite a long time)
Wilful ignorance to all the hard evidence that has been provided by people in this thread, do not a good argument make.
You want harder over world content? Good! I don't want you to think I don't want you to have fun! Go find it! That's the great thing about the internet these days. You can find what you like!
ESO though, has found it's niche. I hope you can appreciate that.
So what's your argument against a ring which gives major debuffs but increases xp gain or gives a chance to drop transmute crystals.
1 -
cptqrk✭✭✭Ballermfrau wrote: »
So what's your argument against a ring which gives major debuffs but increases xp gain or gives a chance to drop transmute crystals.
Has it not been said by the vocal hard mode folks that debuffs like food and drinks are not good enough? Falls under the "not just more HP and more damage" category. I have no issues with self nerfing, but that is not what is being demanded for in this thread.
The second part of your post is irrelevant to the thread, unless you want to go down the "I've done harder content, I want more rewards" path, that has been shown by many in this thread that ZOS thinks would be too much work, and would need a lot of balancing.5 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ballermfrau wrote: »Okay, time to go over some of the mental gymnastics going on here. This is not singling out anyone in perticular, just what I've seen posted, and re-posted over the last.... dear gods... 41 pages.
Lots of people want a more difficult over world!
(Good for you, it has been said, and conveniently glossed over or all out ignored that the developers have said no they do not think that it would be in the best interest of the game based on internal figures)
Make it a slider/toggle! That way it won't affect other people playing!
(Again, conveniently glossed over or all out ignored that the developers have said they will not split the server population)
It would be super easy! Just make a toggle! Or a slider! It doesn't take any developer time to make all the over world mobs harder!
(Even as a non programmer, you know this is not as simple as you are presenting it to be)
No, not just buff the mob damage and HP! Make them do stuff! It's super easy! Should take no development time at all!
(Again, not that simple. New animations, new skills, new ways to balance said skills is not easy. Side note: what is easy mode for you may be hard mode for others, and what is hard mode for you may be baby's first MMO to others. How do you 'satisfy' all? You do what ZOS has done. Put harder content away behind dungeons, world bosses, and trails, regular and veteran modes)
Servers already 'split' the server population! Having a totally separate hard mode would make it so they don't have to deal with the harder stuff!
(Please, the server instancing/mirroring/sharding what ever you want to call it, is a result of how large MMOs keep the servers stable. They are dynamic and ebb and flow via server population. A totally separate hard mode would remove the hard mode players from the regular ebb and flow and will split the server population, thus leading us to the next point)
Come on guys! There wont be enough people who want a more difficult over world that it would affect the general over world population.
(So what is it? ZOS should cater to this idea because soo many people want it, but it's not enough people to want it to actually change the server population? Pick one, please)
I think I know more about the financial and analytical numbers behind ESO than the developers do!
(Right, you know all about how much money ZOS is making. You have more knowledge of what content is getting played than ZOS does. You have access to all the data, and all the other information that you would need to make a decision about what is best for the game. You do not. They do)
There are literally hundreds of thousands of people playing the new shiny MMO! If ZOS doesn't change the game to the way I want it, ESO is DEAD!
(Ahh yes, the 'new hotness'. Like many before it, and many to follow. The game is already showing it's poor lack of planning. PVP is a joke. Few even flag for PVP, but let me give you a tip, the best way to win a large battle? Mass report the opponent's leader, thus instantly banning them from the game. Banking tied to factions? That's not going to affect faction population at all, or will it.. hint.. the answer is yes it will and already does. Did you ever play classic WoW? Did the fact that the servers were so lop sided to one faction make the game more fun? Copy pasted towns tilted on the map to face the entrance in a different direction? The innovation will surely be the end of ever other MMO! Virtually no story? Who needs story when it's hard mode right? I wish the new game well, it sure did look pretty when I played it, but it's not a threat, and it won't be for quite a long time)
Wilful ignorance to all the hard evidence that has been provided by people in this thread, do not a good argument make.
You want harder over world content? Good! I don't want you to think I don't want you to have fun! Go find it! That's the great thing about the internet these days. You can find what you like!
ESO though, has found it's niche. I hope you can appreciate that.
So what's your argument against a ring which gives major debuffs but increases xp gain or gives a chance to drop transmute crystals.
I actually think this is a good idea. I don't think it will please most of the hard mode requesters who insist that the one and only solution is their own private instance with reworked mechanics and more stats.Edited by spartaxoxo on October 19, 2021 12:52AM2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »As a player who did both WS and BW main quests I can confirm that there was no improvements which would suddenly make questing more enjoyable and engaging. It is same boring chore as it was 4 years ago.
There was mechanics that you actually had to follow because the bosses had immunity phases that allowed them to live long to talk their trash. They definitely increased the difficulty of them. So they definitely did try to make them more interesting.
Like here's Summerset. Barely any real mechs just dust a mob quick. (Not my videoes)
And this is the end boss in Markarth and the main villain of that year long story.
[snip] There is clearly effort there. But it's still tuned to low levels. Because the story is for everyone.
[Edited for Baiting]
[snip]
We have identified a problem with overland content missing any form of realism or providing a tangible, believable and/or satisfying experience to accommodate the story. It lacks progression (what I refer to as progressive difficulty) although the story doesn't... this obviously is a problem that must be fixed.
Why must it be fixed if ESO is successful as it is? It might even be as successful as it is because it does some things differently than other MMOs, where progression regularly makes older content obsolete with every new content update.Its simply a problem that needs to be addressed with the game. [snip] With ESO's current issues, why anyone would want to keep things where they are truly staggers the mind and is -not- good for the game itself... never mind all of us. Arguing for the sake of meaningful change is better than being fully committed to completely resisting any change, because the world changes. People change. Roles in companies change.
Why would I want to keep things where they are? Because I have lots of fun in this game. Because I do not feel the same as you. For me, ESO is not stuck in the mud. Before coming to this game, I was playing WoW for years, but it was exhausting to completely loose the progression of my character with every major update and to replace my precious raid gear with simple green stuff dropping from overland mobs. I was bored by the way WoW did its story arcs. I was angered by changes the developers did to the way I could play my character, reducing choice.
For the last seven years, ESO has become my new MMO home, and I've yet to become bored with it. Or disappointed by the directions ZOS is driving this game.
So because the game is considered by some to be successful, that means we stop fixing problems and just what... leave them? If the game is successful, then that's even more reason to fix lingering issues so they don't interfere.
If a bank is successful however their network architecture is outdated I'm pretty sure they're going to update old hardware & software. Same thing here. Being a success does not excuse you from not doing your due-diligence. It always catches up with you somewhere, somehow.
Secondly, I thank you for relating your experience but really haven't said anything that would hinder you. All I'm saying is ZOS realize the issue, give us the ability to choose, as stated previously. Its understandable being angry about having reduced choices because that's how many of us feel now. So I'm confident then that you can understand why we are asking for ZOS to please fix this and give everyone the ability to choose.
Fixing problems with the game and the topic of this subject are not the same.
What is pertinent to this topic is ESO has become significantly more successful after they went to the current design for overland and quests. So while some may be disappointed Zenimax does not make overland more challenging the bank and stock holders seem to be very thrilled.
If that's all that matters, then why doesn't ZOS make ESO into one of those 'literally plays itself' mobile "mmos." Those are real lucrative as far as the stock-holders are concerned.
Because that is not all that matters. As I stated, Zenimax has seen the current model is extremely successful vs the design where they did have veteran zones and that a huge majority of players were not interested in it. As such it would not be a wise business move to change that again.2 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »As a player who did both WS and BW main quests I can confirm that there was no improvements which would suddenly make questing more enjoyable and engaging. It is same boring chore as it was 4 years ago.
There was mechanics that you actually had to follow because the bosses had immunity phases that allowed them to live long to talk their trash. They definitely increased the difficulty of them. So they definitely did try to make them more interesting.
Like here's Summerset. Barely any real mechs just dust a mob quick. (Not my videoes)
And this is the end boss in Markarth and the main villain of that year long story.
[snip] There is clearly effort there. But it's still tuned to low levels. Because the story is for everyone.
[Edited for Baiting]
[snip]
We have identified a problem with overland content missing any form of realism or providing a tangible, believable and/or satisfying experience to accommodate the story. It lacks progression (what I refer to as progressive difficulty) although the story doesn't... this obviously is a problem that must be fixed.
Why must it be fixed if ESO is successful as it is? It might even be as successful as it is because it does some things differently than other MMOs, where progression regularly makes older content obsolete with every new content update.Its simply a problem that needs to be addressed with the game. [snip] With ESO's current issues, why anyone would want to keep things where they are truly staggers the mind and is -not- good for the game itself... never mind all of us. Arguing for the sake of meaningful change is better than being fully committed to completely resisting any change, because the world changes. People change. Roles in companies change.
Why would I want to keep things where they are? Because I have lots of fun in this game. Because I do not feel the same as you. For me, ESO is not stuck in the mud. Before coming to this game, I was playing WoW for years, but it was exhausting to completely loose the progression of my character with every major update and to replace my precious raid gear with simple green stuff dropping from overland mobs. I was bored by the way WoW did its story arcs. I was angered by changes the developers did to the way I could play my character, reducing choice.
For the last seven years, ESO has become my new MMO home, and I've yet to become bored with it. Or disappointed by the directions ZOS is driving this game.
So because the game is considered by some to be successful, that means we stop fixing problems and just what... leave them? If the game is successful, then that's even more reason to fix lingering issues so they don't interfere.
If a bank is successful however their network architecture is outdated I'm pretty sure they're going to update old hardware & software. Same thing here. Being a success does not excuse you from not doing your due-diligence. It always catches up with you somewhere, somehow.
Secondly, I thank you for relating your experience but really haven't said anything that would hinder you. All I'm saying is ZOS realize the issue, give us the ability to choose, as stated previously. Its understandable being angry about having reduced choices because that's how many of us feel now. So I'm confident then that you can understand why we are asking for ZOS to please fix this and give everyone the ability to choose.
Fixing problems with the game and the topic of this subject are not the same.
What is pertinent to this topic is ESO has become significantly more successful after they went to the current design for overland and quests. So while some may be disappointed Zenimax does not make overland more challenging the bank and stock holders seem to be very thrilled.
Whether or not it is your opinion or if you consider it to be a fact, concerning ESO being successful or otherwise... does not and could never be used as a *specific* justifiable excuse or rational technical explanation for not fixing technical (which includes software) problems with the game, which are logical in nature. This is like comparing what marketing does/has accomplished vs IT. Even though the two carry out processes within the company, this has no relevance to neither correcting or providing us with meaningful information regarding a specific issue within an IT process that was never fully resolved. In other words, we want to learn more about the problem itself. I have no doubt that in many different things people make all kinds of money with issues gone undetected, or sometimes ignored even though there are noticeable symptoms.
Regarding the thread itself, "800k people don't seem to mind difficult overworld"
As far as I know, we are having an in-depth conversation regarding the problem with the lack of difficulty content in ESO Overland and how this is a contributing factor for people leaving to play other games, ergo, 800k don't seem to mind the difficulty in New World. So as far as I can tell, this topic, is in the right hands, in the right place. However when you try and say nothing is wrong, then that leads to a conversation which seems off topic as we are looking to identify reasons for why. But some want to try and say, nothing is wrong so no reason why. If you think that this isn't a problem fine but I have yet to see one post from anyone saying that providing us with an alternative explanation for why people are leaving.
But please remember that this is specifically just one issue we are discussing and in actuality it is almost certainly not the only one.Edited by Nagastani on October 19, 2021 2:02AM4 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Ballermfrau wrote: »Okay, time to go over some of the mental gymnastics going on here. This is not singling out anyone in perticular, just what I've seen posted, and re-posted over the last.... dear gods... 41 pages.
Lots of people want a more difficult over world!
(Good for you, it has been said, and conveniently glossed over or all out ignored that the developers have said no they do not think that it would be in the best interest of the game based on internal figures)
Make it a slider/toggle! That way it won't affect other people playing!
(Again, conveniently glossed over or all out ignored that the developers have said they will not split the server population)
It would be super easy! Just make a toggle! Or a slider! It doesn't take any developer time to make all the over world mobs harder!
(Even as a non programmer, you know this is not as simple as you are presenting it to be)
No, not just buff the mob damage and HP! Make them do stuff! It's super easy! Should take no development time at all!
(Again, not that simple. New animations, new skills, new ways to balance said skills is not easy. Side note: what is easy mode for you may be hard mode for others, and what is hard mode for you may be baby's first MMO to others. How do you 'satisfy' all? You do what ZOS has done. Put harder content away behind dungeons, world bosses, and trails, regular and veteran modes)
Servers already 'split' the server population! Having a totally separate hard mode would make it so they don't have to deal with the harder stuff!
(Please, the server instancing/mirroring/sharding what ever you want to call it, is a result of how large MMOs keep the servers stable. They are dynamic and ebb and flow via server population. A totally separate hard mode would remove the hard mode players from the regular ebb and flow and will split the server population, thus leading us to the next point)
Come on guys! There wont be enough people who want a more difficult over world that it would affect the general over world population.
(So what is it? ZOS should cater to this idea because soo many people want it, but it's not enough people to want it to actually change the server population? Pick one, please)
I think I know more about the financial and analytical numbers behind ESO than the developers do!
(Right, you know all about how much money ZOS is making. You have more knowledge of what content is getting played than ZOS does. You have access to all the data, and all the other information that you would need to make a decision about what is best for the game. You do not. They do)
There are literally hundreds of thousands of people playing the new shiny MMO! If ZOS doesn't change the game to the way I want it, ESO is DEAD!
(Ahh yes, the 'new hotness'. Like many before it, and many to follow. The game is already showing it's poor lack of planning. PVP is a joke. Few even flag for PVP, but let me give you a tip, the best way to win a large battle? Mass report the opponent's leader, thus instantly banning them from the game. Banking tied to factions? That's not going to affect faction population at all, or will it.. hint.. the answer is yes it will and already does. Did you ever play classic WoW? Did the fact that the servers were so lop sided to one faction make the game more fun? Copy pasted towns tilted on the map to face the entrance in a different direction? The innovation will surely be the end of ever other MMO! Virtually no story? Who needs story when it's hard mode right? I wish the new game well, it sure did look pretty when I played it, but it's not a threat, and it won't be for quite a long time)
Wilful ignorance to all the hard evidence that has been provided by people in this thread, do not a good argument make.
You want harder over world content? Good! I don't want you to think I don't want you to have fun! Go find it! That's the great thing about the internet these days. You can find what you like!
ESO though, has found it's niche. I hope you can appreciate that.
So what's your argument against a ring which gives major debuffs but increases xp gain or gives a chance to drop transmute crystals.
I actually think this is a good idea. I don't think it will please most of the hard mode requesters who insist that the one and only solution is their own private instance with reworked mechanics and more stats.
Well it began with some of us wanting harder content sure. But now I think what we've realized is its more about correcting the lack of a mechanism in place to properly govern progressive difficulty as well as a lack of utility for players to adjust this as needed.
And ESO is for everyone right? So then in order for it to be for everyone, that means everyone has to be given the opportunity to make their own decisions. The less of this in the game, the less the game is for everyone. And to that point, I would think that anyone who feels the same way would want the community to be able to have more ability to choose for themselves.Edited by Nagastani on October 19, 2021 2:00AM4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whether or not it is your opinion or if you consider it to be a fact, concerning ESO being successful or otherwise... does not and could never be used as a *specific* justifiable excuse or rational technical explanation for not fixing technical (which includes software) problems with the game, which are logical in nature. This is like comparing what marketing does/has accomplished vs IT.
It is a fact that ESO is a successful game.
Your opinion on how the game is balanced is not one, nor is it a technical issue.4 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Whether or not it is your opinion or if you consider it to be a fact, concerning ESO being successful or otherwise... does not and could never be used as a *specific* justifiable excuse or rational technical explanation for not fixing technical (which includes software) problems with the game, which are logical in nature. This is like comparing what marketing does/has accomplished vs IT.
It is a fact that ESO is a successful game.
Your opinion on how the game is balanced is not one, nor is it a technical issue.
Ok I agree with the first part... in fact... no one ever said it wasn't.
But there are a great many facts out there. Facts on their own are meaningless unless they can be leveraged to prove whether something is true or not.
Again, talking about how people view ESO as a whole is utterly useless and a waste of time when trying to understand why there still specific, notable problems in the game still today being reported on the forums and ESO online feedback, as well as help desk tickets, by a great many players. In other words, ESO's success hasn't fixed any of it's problems and so, using this as a counter-point becomes a self-defeating argument.
Regarding why these others players are playing New World, which is in staying *on topic* with this thread, my opinion is like a drop of water in an ocean compared to how these other players feel about both this problem as well as other problems & relatable issues within the game, especially those same problems that have been around for a very long time, which are numerous and can be referenced by searching across this forum.
In saying this, please don't think I'm saying that what I think doesn't mean anything. Overall, no one's opinion really matters other than the Devs and manager at ZOS. However, in threads like this one, every opinion matters because if it doesn't matter then we can't be taken seriously by sharing our thoughts and experiences relevant to the topic at hand.
I think the bottom line is 800k is a very scary number and hopefully everyone's opinion will be given the time and attention it deserves to help ESO both now and in the coming year.Edited by Nagastani on October 19, 2021 3:07AM3 -
cptqrk✭✭✭But some want to try and say, nothing is wrong so no reason why. If you think that this isn't a problem fine but I have yet to see one post from anyone saying that providing us with an alternative explanation for why people are leaving.
People leave MMOs. It has happened ever time a 'new hot thing' has come along.
How many times can you remember any new MMO being touted by it's fan base that it was the WoW killer? How many of those actually killed WoW? Did they temporarily take a bit out of WoW's population? Sure. Did they come back when they found out the game they switched to wasn't what they hoped it was? You bet.
The other game is new, and as someone who has played it, it did not capture my interest in the slightest. I have a feeling a lot more will come back once they see what that game has for them in the way of content. Some have left, yes. Many will return.
But let's get to your question.
Why do people leave?
Because, like I said in my previous long post, the internet is great, you can find exactly what you want game wise these days. Do those people who leave, stay gone? Some, yes, but not all, and ESO is still gaining new players and many return with the release of new DLC.
The grass is not always greener in the other open world MMO.
The problem in this thread is a certain vocal minority believe that the game should change because they want it to. Because they (in my opinion) erroneously believe that a harder over world is the cure all for ESO. That harder content is what ESO needs to 'bring back' those that left.
Is this true?
As a Guild Wars Heart of Thorns expansion survivor no, it is not. The harder content drove more away than it ever lured, and decimated the population for a long time after.
Even making harder content a 'toggle' or 'slider' would still push some players out because the zones won't be as "alive" as they are now.
Some players will feel pressured to do the harder content to get the perks and or rewards that have been asked for, or will be asked for because 'harder content = higher rewards'. In the game now, harder content does give better rewards. People will not do harder content just because. They will want something in return. Some can try to say they won't want better gear, more gold, or more materials, but they would be kidding themselves.
And ZOS has looked at the numbers and has voiced the same opinion, as many have here in this (and the other expected threads like this posted by the same expected accounts). It is not a viable option for ZOS to implement a harder over world.
A vocal majority disagree with the OP and their supporters. Count the number of users demanding a harder over world to the number of users saying it won't work.
Why should the game we love be altered to make just them happy?
And before anyone goes back to the 'but it won't change anything for them!' old trope, you have not been paying attention.
Resources would have to be pulled away from what works. From what makes ZOS and ESO popular.
Could technical fixes be done? Yes, and they should be. I do not disagree that bugs, technical issues, and balances should be dealt with on a regular basis. No one here is arguing against fixes. What many are saying is that harder over world is not an issue that needs to be fixed.
Harder content is in the game already. Many people don't even do that harder content, unless they have to for something they want.
Take PVP for a very good example of harder content people do not like.
People avoid it, not just because of the lag, or because of the unbalanced gear sets currently plaguing PVP. They avoid it because they don't want that 'harder' content. They don't enjoy their game being disrupted from what they like. Don't believe me? Wait till the next PVP event happens, and watch all the "Why do I have to do this?" threads that pop up.
But rewriting the entire over world to cater to the few does not outweigh the will of the many. (imagine I'm doing a Vulcan salute when I say this)
I hope I have shared my opinion with you clearly enough.
8 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭But some want to try and say, nothing is wrong so no reason why. If you think that this isn't a problem fine but I have yet to see one post from anyone saying that providing us with an alternative explanation for why people are leaving.
People leave MMOs. It has happened ever time a 'new hot thing' has come along.
How many times can you remember any new MMO being touted by it's fan base that it was the WoW killer? How many of those actually killed WoW? Did they temporarily take a bit out of WoW's population? Sure. Did they come back when they found out the game they switched to wasn't what they hoped it was? You bet.
The other game is new, and as someone who has played it, it did not capture my interest in the slightest. I have a feeling a lot more will come back once they see what that game has for them in the way of content. Some have left, yes. Many will return.
But let's get to your question.
Why do people leave?
Because, like I said in my previous long post, the internet is great, you can find exactly what you want game wise these days. Do those people who leave, stay gone? Some, yes, but not all, and ESO is still gaining new players and many return with the release of new DLC.
The grass is not always greener in the other open world MMO.
The problem in this thread is a certain vocal minority believe that the game should change because they want it to. Because they (in my opinion) erroneously believe that a harder over world is the cure all for ESO. That harder content is what ESO needs to 'bring back' those that left.
Is this true?
As a Guild Wars Heart of Thorns expansion survivor no, it is not. The harder content drove more away than it ever lured, and decimated the population for a long time after.
Even making harder content a 'toggle' or 'slider' would still push some players out because the zones won't be as "alive" as they are now.
Some players will feel pressured to do the harder content to get the perks and or rewards that have been asked for, or will be asked for because 'harder content = higher rewards'. In the game now, harder content does give better rewards. People will not do harder content just because. They will want something in return. Some can try to say they won't want better gear, more gold, or more materials, but they would be kidding themselves.
And ZOS has looked at the numbers and has voiced the same opinion, as many have here in this (and the other expected threads like this posted by the same expected accounts). It is not a viable option for ZOS to implement a harder over world.
A vocal majority disagree with the OP and their supporters. Count the number of users demanding a harder over world to the number of users saying it won't work.
Why should the game we love be altered to make just them happy?
And before anyone goes back to the 'but it won't change anything for them!' old trope, you have not been paying attention.
Resources would have to be pulled away from what works. From what makes ZOS and ESO popular.
Could technical fixes be done? Yes, and they should be. I do not disagree that bugs, technical issues, and balances should be dealt with on a regular basis. No one here is arguing against fixes. What many are saying is that harder over world is not an issue that needs to be fixed.
Harder content is in the game already. Many people don't even do that harder content, unless they have to for something they want.
Take PVP for a very good example of harder content people do not like.
People avoid it, not just because of the lag, or because of the unbalanced gear sets currently plaguing PVP. They avoid it because they don't want that 'harder' content. They don't enjoy their game being disrupted from what they like. Don't believe me? Wait till the next PVP event happens, and watch all the "Why do I have to do this?" threads that pop up.
But rewriting the entire over world to cater to the few does not outweigh the will of the many. (imagine I'm doing a Vulcan salute when I say this)
I hope I have shared my opinion with you clearly enough.
So I hear what you're saying, I do.
However other games don't have this problem fam. They have similar content and its true they're not exactly the same, we could also throw in there the Devs have been directed to work on different things ok, fine. But other games this is a non-issue.
Instead of trying to you know, keep track of who is reporting what I think there is a larger problem here with the game's culture. But to this point, why ask for feedback if you don't want it? Why hunt down people for providing an opinion you don't share? If we must agree to disagree, I'm fine with that. But what about next time someone reports the same thing? Would it not be easier to just fix the problem in some way? Why is fixing this particular problem any different than creating new zones. And the only answer I can find is they can do whatever they feel needs to be done. And I'm not trying to interfere with that but I believe that to be the case.
At the end of the day, I have done my best to fight the good fight and not let other people give me garbage reasons and irrational explanations for why a problem never was fixed. But clearly, there is a culture here that condones this and it kind of smells because of it. And I know I'm not the only person who feels that way every time we read the patch notes and an actual explanation for why a change was made, from a professional source, is something like, "oh well we did this because we like it to" or "we don't like people choosing not to use what we intended for them to use".
Do you have any idea what would happen if I waltzed into a change control meeting and that was my answer... to either my boss or to a vendor or even for a customer. This is another example of something that seems rotten to me.
And... with that said. I'll just leave it at that. The burden of proof is on the Dev Team and the decisions marketing/mgmt chooses to make in response to the arrival of games such as New World, as well as existing issues within ESO, both for now and the coming year. Many of us will be watching, continue playing ESO as well as other games, and while I like to hope for the best, life experience has prepared me to expect the worse.Edited by Nagastani on October 19, 2021 3:51AM3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »As a player who did both WS and BW main quests I can confirm that there was no improvements which would suddenly make questing more enjoyable and engaging. It is same boring chore as it was 4 years ago.
There was mechanics that you actually had to follow because the bosses had immunity phases that allowed them to live long to talk their trash. They definitely increased the difficulty of them. So they definitely did try to make them more interesting.
Like here's Summerset. Barely any real mechs just dust a mob quick. (Not my videoes)
And this is the end boss in Markarth and the main villain of that year long story.
[snip] There is clearly effort there. But it's still tuned to low levels. Because the story is for everyone.
[Edited for Baiting]
[snip]
We have identified a problem with overland content missing any form of realism or providing a tangible, believable and/or satisfying experience to accommodate the story. It lacks progression (what I refer to as progressive difficulty) although the story doesn't... this obviously is a problem that must be fixed.
Why must it be fixed if ESO is successful as it is? It might even be as successful as it is because it does some things differently than other MMOs, where progression regularly makes older content obsolete with every new content update.Its simply a problem that needs to be addressed with the game. [snip] With ESO's current issues, why anyone would want to keep things where they are truly staggers the mind and is -not- good for the game itself... never mind all of us. Arguing for the sake of meaningful change is better than being fully committed to completely resisting any change, because the world changes. People change. Roles in companies change.
Why would I want to keep things where they are? Because I have lots of fun in this game. Because I do not feel the same as you. For me, ESO is not stuck in the mud. Before coming to this game, I was playing WoW for years, but it was exhausting to completely loose the progression of my character with every major update and to replace my precious raid gear with simple green stuff dropping from overland mobs. I was bored by the way WoW did its story arcs. I was angered by changes the developers did to the way I could play my character, reducing choice.
For the last seven years, ESO has become my new MMO home, and I've yet to become bored with it. Or disappointed by the directions ZOS is driving this game.
So because the game is considered by some to be successful, that means we stop fixing problems and just what... leave them? If the game is successful, then that's even more reason to fix lingering issues so they don't interfere.
If a bank is successful however their network architecture is outdated I'm pretty sure they're going to update old hardware & software. Same thing here. Being a success does not excuse you from not doing your due-diligence. It always catches up with you somewhere, somehow.
Secondly, I thank you for relating your experience but really haven't said anything that would hinder you. All I'm saying is ZOS realize the issue, give us the ability to choose, as stated previously. Its understandable being angry about having reduced choices because that's how many of us feel now. So I'm confident then that you can understand why we are asking for ZOS to please fix this and give everyone the ability to choose.
Fixing problems with the game and the topic of this subject are not the same.
What is pertinent to this topic is ESO has become significantly more successful after they went to the current design for overland and quests. So while some may be disappointed Zenimax does not make overland more challenging the bank and stock holders seem to be very thrilled.
Whether or not it is your opinion or if you consider it to be a fact, concerning ESO being successful or otherwise... does not and could never be used as a *specific* justifiable excuse or rational technical explanation for not fixing technical (which includes software) problems with the game, which are logical in nature. This is like comparing what marketing does/has accomplished vs IT. Even though the two carry out processes within the company, this has no relevance to neither correcting or providing us with meaningful information regarding a specific issue within an IT process that was never fully resolved. In other words, we want to learn more about the problem itself. I have no doubt that in many different things people make all kinds of money with issues gone undetected, or sometimes ignored even though there are noticeable symptoms.
Regarding the thread itself, "800k people don't seem to mind difficult overworld"
As far as I know, we are having an in-depth conversation regarding the problem with the lack of difficulty content in ESO Overland and how this is a contributing factor for people leaving to play other games, ergo, 800k don't seem to mind the difficulty in New World. So as far as I can tell, this topic, is in the right hands, in the right place. However when you try and say nothing is wrong, then that leads to a conversation which seems off topic as we are looking to identify reasons for why. But some want to try and say, nothing is wrong so no reason why. If you think that this isn't a problem fine but I have yet to see one post from anyone saying that providing us with an alternative explanation for why people are leaving.
But please remember that this is specifically just one issue we are discussing and in actuality it is almost certainly not the only one.
It is not my opinion but Zenimax's stated fact. It is also part of the data from players activities since the game launched and they especially stated the data does not lie. So regardless of what our individual opinions are, Zenimax pretty much considers their to be fact and states they have all the information they need to justify their course of action.
After that, it is for each of us to determine if this is the game we want to play. It seems much more than enough have decided this is the game for them.
As for 800k do not mind a difficult world. That does not appropriately characterize the players for NW. I have played in NW since alpha and it has been made easier since then. Also, the only way to find "difficult overworld" there is to go to an area over your character's level.
What is interesting is how much high-level players are in the lower-level areas. That makes clear they are avoiding the areas that would offer a challenge. Of course I have seen some players in areas more appropriate for their level but that is a much smaller group. Even then the NPCs are just as predictable so anyone with even a modest capability to play in combat can figure out how to avoid much of the damage making the fight easy.
So it is a much smaller number of NW players that are actually interested in more of a challenge. Even then NW has not stood the test of time that ESO has. Also, in case it is not clear, I am in NW and am in the higher level areas for my character though I do not plan to leave ESO as it is a much better game in so many ways.3 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »As a player who did both WS and BW main quests I can confirm that there was no improvements which would suddenly make questing more enjoyable and engaging. It is same boring chore as it was 4 years ago.
There was mechanics that you actually had to follow because the bosses had immunity phases that allowed them to live long to talk their trash. They definitely increased the difficulty of them. So they definitely did try to make them more interesting.
Like here's Summerset. Barely any real mechs just dust a mob quick. (Not my videoes)
And this is the end boss in Markarth and the main villain of that year long story.
[snip] There is clearly effort there. But it's still tuned to low levels. Because the story is for everyone.
[Edited for Baiting]
[snip]
We have identified a problem with overland content missing any form of realism or providing a tangible, believable and/or satisfying experience to accommodate the story. It lacks progression (what I refer to as progressive difficulty) although the story doesn't... this obviously is a problem that must be fixed.
Why must it be fixed if ESO is successful as it is? It might even be as successful as it is because it does some things differently than other MMOs, where progression regularly makes older content obsolete with every new content update.Its simply a problem that needs to be addressed with the game. [snip] With ESO's current issues, why anyone would want to keep things where they are truly staggers the mind and is -not- good for the game itself... never mind all of us. Arguing for the sake of meaningful change is better than being fully committed to completely resisting any change, because the world changes. People change. Roles in companies change.
Why would I want to keep things where they are? Because I have lots of fun in this game. Because I do not feel the same as you. For me, ESO is not stuck in the mud. Before coming to this game, I was playing WoW for years, but it was exhausting to completely loose the progression of my character with every major update and to replace my precious raid gear with simple green stuff dropping from overland mobs. I was bored by the way WoW did its story arcs. I was angered by changes the developers did to the way I could play my character, reducing choice.
For the last seven years, ESO has become my new MMO home, and I've yet to become bored with it. Or disappointed by the directions ZOS is driving this game.
So because the game is considered by some to be successful, that means we stop fixing problems and just what... leave them? If the game is successful, then that's even more reason to fix lingering issues so they don't interfere.
If a bank is successful however their network architecture is outdated I'm pretty sure they're going to update old hardware & software. Same thing here. Being a success does not excuse you from not doing your due-diligence. It always catches up with you somewhere, somehow.
Secondly, I thank you for relating your experience but really haven't said anything that would hinder you. All I'm saying is ZOS realize the issue, give us the ability to choose, as stated previously. Its understandable being angry about having reduced choices because that's how many of us feel now. So I'm confident then that you can understand why we are asking for ZOS to please fix this and give everyone the ability to choose.
Fixing problems with the game and the topic of this subject are not the same.
What is pertinent to this topic is ESO has become significantly more successful after they went to the current design for overland and quests. So while some may be disappointed Zenimax does not make overland more challenging the bank and stock holders seem to be very thrilled.
Whether or not it is your opinion or if you consider it to be a fact, concerning ESO being successful or otherwise... does not and could never be used as a *specific* justifiable excuse or rational technical explanation for not fixing technical (which includes software) problems with the game, which are logical in nature. This is like comparing what marketing does/has accomplished vs IT. Even though the two carry out processes within the company, this has no relevance to neither correcting or providing us with meaningful information regarding a specific issue within an IT process that was never fully resolved. In other words, we want to learn more about the problem itself. I have no doubt that in many different things people make all kinds of money with issues gone undetected, or sometimes ignored even though there are noticeable symptoms.
Regarding the thread itself, "800k people don't seem to mind difficult overworld"
As far as I know, we are having an in-depth conversation regarding the problem with the lack of difficulty content in ESO Overland and how this is a contributing factor for people leaving to play other games, ergo, 800k don't seem to mind the difficulty in New World. So as far as I can tell, this topic, is in the right hands, in the right place. However when you try and say nothing is wrong, then that leads to a conversation which seems off topic as we are looking to identify reasons for why. But some want to try and say, nothing is wrong so no reason why. If you think that this isn't a problem fine but I have yet to see one post from anyone saying that providing us with an alternative explanation for why people are leaving.
But please remember that this is specifically just one issue we are discussing and in actuality it is almost certainly not the only one.
It is not my opinion but Zenimax's stated fact. It is also part of the data from players activities since the game launched and they especially stated the data does not lie. So regardless of what our individual opinions are, Zenimax pretty much considers their to be fact and states they have all the information they need to justify their course of action.
After that, it is for each of us to determine if this is the game we want to play. It seems much more than enough have decided this is the game for them.
As for 800k do not mind a difficult world. That does not appropriately characterize the players for NW. I have played in NW since alpha and it has been made easier since then. Also, the only way to find "difficult overworld" there is to go to an area over your character's level.
What is interesting is how much high-level players are in the lower-level areas. That makes clear they are avoiding the areas that would offer a challenge. Of course I have seen some players in areas more appropriate for their level but that is a much smaller group. Even then the NPCs are just as predictable so anyone with even a modest capability to play in combat can figure out how to avoid much of the damage making the fight easy.
So it is a much smaller number of NW players that are actually interested in more of a challenge. Even then NW has not stood the test of time that ESO has. Also, in case it is not clear, I am in NW and am in the higher level areas for my character though I do not plan to leave ESO as it is a much better game in so many ways.
No one is saying that ZOS is wrong or any of their data is not accurate.
I have yet to see anyone dispute what they consider facts and indeed this thread is not really for that. However, Amottica, this thread exist *because* ZOS doesn't have all the facts. Agree? They're trying to figure this out and there's nothing wrong with that.
Secondly, I must admit I have my own feelings on New World, most are positive. However I am getting really sick and tired of like REALLY high level people raiding the lvl 1-25 zones and poaching all our resources. Its getting to be a pain. I'm on Team Green btw, the mean greens.
However, I think you go too far in assuming we are not interested in a challenge. Ok here's a fact for you, the fact is a low level player cannot kill a high level player fast enough before they die. This is a point I've brought up previously. So when low levels don't PvP, well of course they're not going to PvP sillies They can't compete... why would anyone unflag PvP just to die. I mean c'mon its bad enough all our iron ore, hemp, dyes and other goodies are getting constantly poached by extremely high level players.
But in fairness to your point, you will get out of New World what you put into it. If you RUSH RUSH RUSH really fassssst to level, just to suck at PvP and then develop feuds with other players and not enjoy that wonderful place along the way then you're doing it wrong. Again, the experience is different for each person who plays and how they enjoy their game needs to be left up to them.
And we can't have a game like that without options. As far as being tested, New World has already disrupted the MMO scene with many players continuing to remain with/invest in that game. That's enough to tell us there is a need for change, especially if from what I'm hearing now change is something 'they' don't want yet many of the players do.
Note for whom it may concern. If you do goto New World, stay away from really High pop servers, such as Valhalla. Pick a Medium, Medium-High activity Server. Places like Valhalla are crammed with people, all of the nice or even out of the way resource locations are being constantly farmed. I am setup on two Med-High pop servers right now and am absolutely loving the game. But I would advise staying out of places like Valhalla as pretty much everything in there is very heavily contested, the cities are wall to wall people and the PvP battles are extremely lagging, that is IF you get to join one.Edited by Nagastani on October 19, 2021 4:29AM3 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But some want to try and say, nothing is wrong so no reason why. If you think that this isn't a problem fine but I have yet to see one post from anyone saying that providing us with an alternative explanation for why people are leaving.
People leave MMOs. It has happened ever time a 'new hot thing' has come along.
How many times can you remember any new MMO being touted by it's fan base that it was the WoW killer? How many of those actually killed WoW? Did they temporarily take a bit out of WoW's population? Sure. Did they come back when they found out the game they switched to wasn't what they hoped it was? You bet.
The other game is new, and as someone who has played it, it did not capture my interest in the slightest. I have a feeling a lot more will come back once they see what that game has for them in the way of content. Some have left, yes. Many will return.
But let's get to your question.
Why do people leave?
Because, like I said in my previous long post, the internet is great, you can find exactly what you want game wise these days. Do those people who leave, stay gone? Some, yes, but not all, and ESO is still gaining new players and many return with the release of new DLC.
The grass is not always greener in the other open world MMO.
The problem in this thread is a certain vocal minority believe that the game should change because they want it to. Because they (in my opinion) erroneously believe that a harder over world is the cure all for ESO. That harder content is what ESO needs to 'bring back' those that left.
Is this true?
As a Guild Wars Heart of Thorns expansion survivor no, it is not. The harder content drove more away than it ever lured, and decimated the population for a long time after.
Even making harder content a 'toggle' or 'slider' would still push some players out because the zones won't be as "alive" as they are now.
Some players will feel pressured to do the harder content to get the perks and or rewards that have been asked for, or will be asked for because 'harder content = higher rewards'. In the game now, harder content does give better rewards. People will not do harder content just because. They will want something in return. Some can try to say they won't want better gear, more gold, or more materials, but they would be kidding themselves.
And ZOS has looked at the numbers and has voiced the same opinion, as many have here in this (and the other expected threads like this posted by the same expected accounts). It is not a viable option for ZOS to implement a harder over world.
A vocal majority disagree with the OP and their supporters. Count the number of users demanding a harder over world to the number of users saying it won't work.
Why should the game we love be altered to make just them happy?
And before anyone goes back to the 'but it won't change anything for them!' old trope, you have not been paying attention.
Resources would have to be pulled away from what works. From what makes ZOS and ESO popular.
Could technical fixes be done? Yes, and they should be. I do not disagree that bugs, technical issues, and balances should be dealt with on a regular basis. No one here is arguing against fixes. What many are saying is that harder over world is not an issue that needs to be fixed.
Harder content is in the game already. Many people don't even do that harder content, unless they have to for something they want.
Take PVP for a very good example of harder content people do not like.
People avoid it, not just because of the lag, or because of the unbalanced gear sets currently plaguing PVP. They avoid it because they don't want that 'harder' content. They don't enjoy their game being disrupted from what they like. Don't believe me? Wait till the next PVP event happens, and watch all the "Why do I have to do this?" threads that pop up.
But rewriting the entire over world to cater to the few does not outweigh the will of the many. (imagine I'm doing a Vulcan salute when I say this)
I hope I have shared my opinion with you clearly enough.
So I hear what you're saying, I do.
However other games don't have this problem fam. They have similar content and its true they're not exactly the same, we could also throw in there the Devs have been directed to work on different things ok, fine. But other games this is a non-issue.
Instead of trying to you know, keep track of who is reporting what I think there is a larger problem here with the game's culture. But to this point, why ask for feedback if you don't want it? Why hunt down people for providing an opinion you don't share? If we must agree to disagree, I'm fine with that. But what about next time someone reports the same thing? Would it not be easier to just fix the problem in some way? Why is fixing this particular problem any different than creating new zones. And the only answer I can find is they can do whatever they feel needs to be done. And I'm not trying to interfere with that but I believe that to be the case.
At the end of the day, I have done my best to fight the good fight and not let other people give me garbage reasons and irrational explanations for why a problem never was fixed. But clearly, there is a culture here that condones this and it kind of smells because of it. And I know I'm not the only person who feels that way every time we read the patch notes and an actual explanation for why a change was made, from a professional source, is something like, "oh well we did this because we like it to" or "we don't like people choosing not to use what we intended for them to use".
Do you have any idea what would happen if I waltzed into a change control meeting and that was my answer... to either my boss or to a vendor or even for a customer. This is another example of something that seems rotten to me.
And... with that said. I'll just leave it at that. The burden of proof is on the Dev Team and the decisions marketing/mgmt chooses to make in response to the arrival of games such as New World, as well as existing issues within ESO, both for now and the coming year. Many of us will be watching, continue playing ESO as well as other games, and while I like to hope for the best, life experience has prepared me to expect the worse.
I do not know what "other" games you are speaking of though I assume we are comparing actual MMORPGs to MMORPGs and even then not really bad ones.
Even then, Zenimax does not seem this as a problem since they consider the game very successful since they changed to this format and seem very pleased with the success.
More importantly, if NW is catering to the needs of those who want a more challenging overland and it is worthy of comparison to ESO then I am not sure why this is an issue. They are happy and Zenimax is happy.2 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ok I agree with the first part... in fact... no one ever said it wasn't.
But there are a great many facts out there. Facts on their own are meaningless unless they can be leveraged to prove whether something is true or not.
No. Truth is it's own value.
You implied that it was an opinion if ESO is a success or not. That is a measurable fact, not an opinion. It is one. Period. And highly successful at that.
I was not talking about universal outlook on the game. You were comparing your opinion about the balance of Overland to a factual bug that must be resolved. I am simply stating it is not the case. It is not a fact.
The developers do not have to change the game because a group of people don't like the game. There is not a game on Earth that pleases all audiences.
The developers don't have to do anything different. This is not some factual flaw that they have to address.
It is your OPINION that overland is too easy. And the devs don't have to change anything just because you think they should.
If you prefer some other game's approach, play that game. It's okay for different games on the market to appeal to different people. In fact, it's better for them to instead of forcing every game on the market to be made on the terms of the same people over and over. That's how you get new ideas, (as a general market rule) is by having different stuff marketed at different audiences.
It doesn't matter that hardcore audiences may not enjoy ESO's quests, or that casual audiences may not enjoy Dark Souls. No game can please everyone.
It is not a flaw of those games. It is just something you personally want.Edited by spartaxoxo on October 19, 2021 5:02AM4 -
AlexanderDeLarge✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nah, it's evident and inevitable for anyone who plays the game as intended (bar swapping) and surpassed a certain level of progression (CP300) which the majority of the playerbase could easily attain by playing through the base game's storyline and a chapter or two while doing their dailies consistently for maybe a month or two.spartaxoxo wrote: »It is your OPINION that overland is too easy. And the devs don't have to change anything just because you think they should.
I'm probably being really generous too because of Champion Point system 2.0 significantly decreasing the amount of XP needed and the sheer amount of story content available.
No but it might be smart to address the majority of content being trivialized by power creep they created as a result of the CP system and the gear sets they've designed when that's the majority of the content being sold to your loyal players forking over $40-$100 annually for that content.The developers do not have to change the game because a group of people don't like the game. There is not a game on Earth that pleases all audiences.Edited by AlexanderDeLarge on October 19, 2021 5:10AMDifficulty scaling is desperately needed. 11 years. 8 paid expansions. 29 dungeon and zone DLCs. 45 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. Just because Cadwell Silver&Gold failed doesn't mean the game should be brain dead easy forever.
"ESO doesn't need a harder overland" on YouTube for a video of a naked level 3 character w/ no CP allocated AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half before dying if you don't believe me change is needed.4 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »
Nah, it's evident and inevitable for anyone who plays the game as intended (bar swapping) and surpassed a certain level of progression (CP300) which the majority of the playerbase could easily attain by playing through the base game's storyline and a chapter or two while doing their dailies consistently for maybe a month or two.spartaxoxo wrote: »It is your OPINION that overland is too easy. And the devs don't have to change anything just because you think they should.
Enjoyment is subjective. Finding something "too easy" or "too hard" is subjective. These are opinions not facts. What you find boring and immersion killing others will find relaxing and that it enhances the story.
Your opinion is not a fact.7 -
AlexanderDeLarge✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Enjoyment is subjective. Finding something "too easy" or "too hard" is subjective. These are opinions not facts. What you find boring and immersion killing others will find relaxing and that it enhances the story.
Your opinion is not a fact.
The majority of mobs can be one shot by anyone adequately geared and leveled. The majority of combat encounters end before their scripted actions start. You can observe this in the open world for yourself.
You can not tell me with sincerity that five minute travel times on horseback only to one shot the mobs you were tasked with killing is "fun".Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 11 years. 8 paid expansions. 29 dungeon and zone DLCs. 45 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. Just because Cadwell Silver&Gold failed doesn't mean the game should be brain dead easy forever.
"ESO doesn't need a harder overland" on YouTube for a video of a naked level 3 character w/ no CP allocated AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half before dying if you don't believe me change is needed.6 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Ok I agree with the first part... in fact... no one ever said it wasn't.
But there are a great many facts out there. Facts on their own are meaningless unless they can be leveraged to prove whether something is true or not.
No. Truth is it's own value.
You implied that it was an opinion if ESO is a success or not. That is a measurable fact, not an opinion. It is one. Period. And highly successful at that.
I was not talking about universal outlook on the game. You were comparing your opinion about the balance of Overland to a factual bug that must be resolved. I am simply stating it is not the case. It is not a fact.
The developers do not have to change the game because a group of people don't like the game. There is not a game on Earth that pleases all audiences.
The developers don't have to do anything different. This is not some factual flaw that they have to address.
It is your OPINION that overland is too easy. And the devs don't have to change anything just because you think they should.
If you prefer some other game's approach, play that game. It's okay for different games on the market to appeal to different people. In fact, it's better for them to instead of forcing every game on the market to be made on the terms of the same people over and over. That's how you get new ideas, (as a general market rule) is by having different stuff marketed at different audiences.
It doesn't matter that hardcore audiences may not enjoy ESO's quests, or that casual audiences may not enjoy Dark Souls. No game can please everyone.
It is not a flaw of those games. It is just something you personally want.
[snip]
However, yeah what's wrong with not just me but others, again, as I had said, on here, sending in messages (using various methods) to Gina or the Devs even, asking them to please add the content we would like to see.
[snip]
And we're not going to apologize for asking about change or letting them know we found something that should have been fixed and there's no reason to give up on it. I hope we have an understanding now [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on October 19, 2021 10:40AM5 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Enjoyment is subjective. Finding something "too easy" or "too hard" is subjective. These are opinions not facts. What you find boring and immersion killing others will find relaxing and that it enhances the story.
Your opinion is not a fact.
The majority of mobs can be one shot by anyone adequately geared and leveled. The majority of combat encounters end before their scripted actions start. You can observe this in the open world for yourself.
You can not tell me with sincerity that five minute travel times on horseback only to one shot the mobs you were tasked with killing is "fun".
It is fun, sometimes. When it's boring, I do something else. And others have said the same on here. Some people like ease because it's relaxing.
I am not denying that it is easy. But "too" easy and "unfun?" No. Those are opinions.
It is an enjoyable, relaxing experience that lets me pay more attention to the art of the surroundings and the dialogue of the story.
Fun is inherently subjective. Your opinion is not a fact.
Edited by spartaxoxo on October 19, 2021 6:11AM6 -
Callosum✭✭✭
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJisNEf934Q
"Should ESO have a Veteran Mode for the Overland and Questing content?"
Just wanted to share a recent video on this topic from one of ESO's biggest content creators.2 -
Katlefiya✭✭✭✭✭Just wanted to share a recent video on this topic from one of ESO's biggest content creators.
No surprise that the streamers/influencers (I refuse to call them ESO content creators because that is a silly way to describe what they are doing) would hop onto this.. if this can create 42 pages of comments in the forums it probably will create clicks aka $$$ for them on youtube too.3 -
Andyhunter21✭✭✭If the same subject show up in the forum again and again, it's because people actually want it. Overland challenge is absolute trash in ESO, looks like a bunch of paid actors who fall on the ground as soon as you wave at them, like a fake martial arts video.
I can't remember a single MMO i've played with overland content done like this. When people picture that change they immediately think questing and exploration will take a hit, or that newer players will suffer the most. The truth is, RPGs do that. You're supposed to catch up with the challenge ahead and that's cool. Seeing your character being able to sneak a whole delve to get an item at the end without facing any enemies is pointless today. Actually using Blade of Woe to clean a camp of bandits? What a waste of time in a game where everything has 30k HP and dies to 3 light attacks.
Even if you're one of the people who actually enjoys this somehow, consider that others suggesting this are doing so not to benefit their loot drop or efficiency or anything, they actually want a way to play the game in a harder difficulty, even if it's a toggled feature.
If this feature kicks in i will probably finally consider questing after 5 years playing this.
ESO was like this in the beginning with VR levels and it was BAD.3 -
Callosum✭✭✭Andyhunter21 wrote: »That would be HORRIBLE! Zos please ignore all of these crazy people!!!
Why? We are not asking for something that would change how you are able to play the game as it is now.4 -
Kamatsu✭✭✭✭I continue to chuckle seeing the same type of arguments & attitudes being put forth here as I saw over on GW2's forums prior to HoT expansion. Exact same attitudes:
- there there is a problem that must be fixed
- They speak for the community
- there's lots of ppl who want this
- anything said against this is just personal feelings
- etc & so on.
Remember the result: 66-67% revenue (Gross revenue, not profit!) loss as players fled the game in droves after ANet listened and changed the game to suit them.
I also want to point out the fact that this thread started about the launch of New World... a game that is already dying super fast. It's already lots half it's player base, and it's not even a month old.
Launched 30th September, 20 days ago...
Peak pop: 913K on 4th October
Current: 512K today (19th Oct)
Average population: 486K daily over the last 20 days.
https://steamcharts.com/app/1063730#1m
So unless Amazon can fix the huge myriad of issues the game has, I don't see it being a thing in 3 months - ie at it's current downward trend it'll be sitting at 50K or less pop by the 3 month mark.
So yeah, maybe don't try and compare ESO to the newest & latest 'flashy' MMO and attempt to use that as justification to make changes here in ESO. Always advisable to wait-and-see just how the new shiny is 3-6 months after launch.
Final point: One thing I would support... and maybe wouldn't take too much dev-time to do:
- Ask ZOS to implement a difficulty toggle for it's solo story instances, at least for 1 chapter.
This way ZOS can provide fully instanced harder ai, better skills, etc fight in story mode instances, which then gives those wanting harder story fights at least something. While also letting ZOS see just how much demand there is for this, and whether it's worth the extra dev time to do this... and potentially expand it further if there is enough demand for it.
ZOS have shown they are willing to change things, but asking for huge wide-spreading changes is likely to get rejected by ZOS and many players. Pushing for smaller changes that can be done initially without taking too much away from where ZOS see's the majority of it's revenue coming from... is likely going to get a better reception from both ZOS and a lot of other players - it makes for a better business proposal to test the waters with a smaller step, than flat out demanding huge expense for what could amount to a huge financial disaster/loss.o_O3 -
AlexanderDeLarge✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It was bad in the beginning because basic MMO fundamentals like grouping weren't working. No wonder people didn't group up for Craglorn when grouping and quest phasing were utterly broken. Also the Veteran Rank system was a tedious endgame experience on top of a tedious 1-50 experience on top of the aforementioned broken mechanics.Andyhunter21 wrote: »ESO was like this in the beginning with VR levels and it was BAD.
Why would it be horrible? It would be a toggle that you don't have to use. It wouldn't affect your overland experience whatsoever.Andyhunter21 wrote: »That would be HORRIBLE! Zos please ignore all of these crazy people!!!
It's refreshing to see that comment section full of people who say that this would be amazing for the game after all the negativity in this thread. It would be amazing for the game and I hope it gives a voice to all the people who have quit the game due to an overwhelming lack of difficulty and even to those who never gave TESO a shot because of the notorious power creep problems that tend to come up every time TESO is discussed outside these forums.
No surprise that the streamers/influencers (I refuse to call them ESO content creators because that is a silly way to describe what they are doing) would hop onto this.. if this can create 42 pages of comments in the forums it probably will create clicks aka $$$ for them on youtube too.Just wanted to share a recent video on this topic from one of ESO's biggest content creators.
There are all sorts of people who believe all sorts of things but I'd bet my life's savings that if you sat the average player in front of my computer while logged into my account and they were ending combat encounters before enemy NPCs could perform their scripted actions, the overwhelming majority would say it sucks.spartaxoxo wrote: »I am not denying that it is easy. But "too" easy and "unfun?" No. Those are opinions.
As I've said before, you can observe the same thing happening in the overland so I know it's not just me. Almost every encounter above a certain Champion Point level in the overland are like this which indicates to me that this is an inevitable point in progression where the game's overland difficulty becomes trivialized. The only thing up for debate is whether or not ZOS should be reactive or proactive in their response to power creep that is inevitable for players who stick with the game because I highly doubt this unprecedented power creep was their intended design.Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 11 years. 8 paid expansions. 29 dungeon and zone DLCs. 45 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. Just because Cadwell Silver&Gold failed doesn't mean the game should be brain dead easy forever.
"ESO doesn't need a harder overland" on YouTube for a video of a naked level 3 character w/ no CP allocated AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half before dying if you don't believe me change is needed.3 -
Callosum✭✭✭A question.
Would it be take less dev time to put players who activated some kind of nerf scroll in the same overland instance rather than making optional vet overland intances for every zone? Point being that you change the players rather than the zone.
Could maybe be an way of implementing for testing purposes without having to put in tons of resources.
0 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭I haven't read the whole discussion so apologies if I missed someone saying the obvious.
You all talk about an optional vet overland. Harder monsters, better rewards, etc (and rewards may just be increased xp).
What none of you have stopped to consider is FOMO - the fear of missing out.
Vet overland with increased rewards will be successful, at least for a few weeks. The majority of players will move to it, why? FOMO, they won't want to miss the extra rewards that are on offer, same as we do the events each year even though we don't need anything from them just in case we miss put on something if we don't.
Once they decide that getting killed by random mobs isn't their thing they will leave ESO, they won't return to easy mode, they will leave the game, and then the game will die.
Let's have this discussion in 6 months when we see how New World's is doing (incidentally its a PC only game which has no interest to me as I play on a PS5)5
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZefVKjz-0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VCbVcOQn83IThis discussion has been closed.