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Champion Point System
Sweetpea704
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The changes to the Champion Point System are a huge concern to many long time players. Especially since the last patch, I have many points that I can't even put anywhere. Why keep playing if you can't improve? You have to have goals to shoot for to stay motivated. I don't even have as many points as a lot of my friends since I had a whole year where I was working and going to school. So, you basically lose the ability to improve your abilities at about 1400 CP?
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pdblake✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm only at a tad over 800cp and with the limited amount of stars and lack of passives, find it difficult to choose where to put them in the blue and orange trees, some are sat in stars that I don't even have on the bar. And don't get me going about the green tree. Why on Earth do I need to unlock a furnishing perk in order to get to the fishing ones?Edited by pdblake on October 4, 2021 1:25PM4 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm only at a tad over 800cp and with the limited amount of stars and lack of passives, find it difficult to choose where to put them in the blue and orange trees, some are sat in stars that I don't even have on the bar. And don't get me going about the green tree. Why on Earth do I need to unlock a furnishing perk in order to get to the fishing ones?
I'd tell you, but I don't want to have to go sit in the corner, again.
The problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.6 -
pdblake✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm only at a tad over 800cp and with the limited amount of stars and lack of passives, find it difficult to choose where to put them in the blue and orange trees, some are sat in stars that I don't even have on the bar. And don't get me going about the green tree. Why on Earth do I need to unlock a furnishing perk in order to get to the fishing ones?
I'd tell you, but I don't want to have to go sit in the corner, again.
Well up to now I've found more furnishing plans than fish so I can easily make you a chair to sit on
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Wolfenbelle✭✭✭✭✭I agree that the new CP system is not a good design. The biggest problem with it is that there are way too many slottable stars and way too few passives. With only four slots per constellation, that means most stars are useless for everyone other than those players who change their slottables for different scenarios. But even doing that is mostly not worth it because the impact to different play scenarios is minimal.
I currently have nearly 1100 CP and already find it hard to do anything worthwhile with newly gained points.9 -
jasonhunter✭✭✭I just had an Idea, maybe its stupid but how about this. Make all the slottable perks that are not slotted but have been upped with CP into very weak passives. For as long as they are not in their slots. When they are slotted, they are their usual value again.
Its not much, but its more than it is now.Edited by jasonhunter on October 4, 2021 1:45PM10 -
Sailor_Palutena✭✭✭✭I liked the old system more. They just needed to make it 1% per CP point and cap at 50%, instead of allowing 100% and shove diminishing returns over every star.2 -
brandon✭✭✭✭Sailor_Palutena wrote: »I liked the old system more. They just needed to make it 1% per CP point and cap at 50%, instead of allowing 100% and shove diminishing returns over every star.
Yeah, agreed! I liked the old system more tbh. Was it perfect? Probably not. But there's too few passives in this current setup and not enough slots for everything else. Way too few slots given how many possibilities there are. @Sailor_PalutenaI just had an Idea, maybe its stupid but how about this. Make all the slottable perks that are not slotted but have been upped with CP into very weak passives. For as long as they are not in their slots. When they are slotted, they are their usual value again.
That'd certainly be an improvement on the current system, so I'd support it if that's what they decided to do with it. @jasonhunter1 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sailor_Palutena wrote: »I liked the old system more. They just needed to make it 1% per CP point and cap at 50%, instead of allowing 100% and shove diminishing returns over every star.
Yeah, agreed! I liked the old system more tbh. Was it perfect? Probably not. But there's too few passives in this current setup and not enough slots for everything else. Way too few slots given how many possibilities there are. @Sailor_PalutenaI just had an Idea, maybe its stupid but how about this. Make all the slottable perks that are not slotted but have been upped with CP into very weak passives. For as long as they are not in their slots. When they are slotted, they are their usual value again.
That'd certainly be an improvement on the current system, so I'd support it if that's what they decided to do with it. @jasonhunter
I agree with the slottable-passive idea as well, but wasn't one of the main points of the slot system to reduce game lag by reducing the amount of information that is calculated by each attack you make? I know it's a lame excuse on ZoS's end, but they did put that as one of their main points as to why they wouldn't change it or compromise after the release of CP2. And of course having it be that way would mean they'd probably want to nerf the passives more than the low stats they already give, or make it so you have slots for passives too. I'd rather it stay how it is than to have a bunch of nerfs just for them to make something underwhelming again.
That's not to say I dislike the idea. If they did this, that'd be fantastic and would be a nice incentive. But it's unlikely, due to the previous reason I mentioned.
What I'd like to see is to make the green tree passive since slotting that has no real value for combat, and to make blue and red lines have 5 slots instead of 4 that change based on weapon swapping. You can actually make builds if they can swap, assuming they release more interesting slottables other than just stat increases. Maybe even a 6th slot for each one and special stars that are like ultimates for the CP tree that specifically go into that 6th slot. I wouldn't be too mad either if they made it 5 slots and a 6th ultimate slot TOTAL, which can hold slottables from blue and red, and swap. Sure it would limit us more. But with swaps and 5 slots + an ultimate slot, you can build for crafting and exploration, or for combat, and you won't have to reset CP every time you want to open a chest or w/e. But that's more of a niche ask, dunno.
Maybe even a CP sub tree in blue and red that changes based on your class as well. Like Nightblade has choices in these trees that templars dont have, and so on.Edited by merpins on October 5, 2021 7:25AM0 -
I do feel there should be more passives we can put CP points into ... I'm only 1300 & something CP & seriously running out of places to put pointsGM Waking Dreams | PC NA1 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »
I agree with the slottable-passive idea as well, but wasn't one of the main points of the slot system to reduce game lag by reducing the amount of information that is calculated by each attack you make? I know it's a lame excuse on ZoS's end, but they did put that as one of their main points as to why they wouldn't change it or compromise after the release of CP2.
Performance, yes. But also reigning in the power gap.
The compromise was meant to be *horizontal* power - basically, broader skills and capabilities instead of an infinitely growing vertical power which just separates the community far too much.
Why its not satisfying is because once you have enough champion points for 4 slottables, as well as the passives, you have reached the greatest breadth of horizontal power because you can very easily respec. ALL horizontal power is reached at that point, and beyond that, there is nothing to grow into.
Avoiding a 3k tax is the totality of "horizontal progression".
And where are you when you earn enough champion points to get another slottable? To what degree does one extra slottable give you genuine diversity? So I will still need to pay 3k to respec. I haven't gained meaningful "horizontal progression" (ie. "no 3k tax") until I get, what? 2? 3? extra slottables to perform another role? So my progression plataeus for 300cp at best. But even when I get past that, it will still just be, best case - I don't pay 3k.
The upcoming armoury system reinforces this.
You really don't gain anything meaningful.
I love the idea of horizontal progression. I think its conceptually a fantastic compromise for vertical power creep. I just think that currently the system that they have is not *meaningful* horizontal progression.
What bugs me is that they keep saying on streams and such that it was a great system, and fail to acknowledge how it isn't providing any real sense of horizontal progression. I feel like when they say that, they aren't hearing us.Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on October 5, 2021 12:52PM2 -
tonyblack✭✭✭✭✭1400 cp and earning xp is meaningless to me. Making whole green tree passive would be at least partial solution that has no effect on combat.2 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah.. not a fan here. The previous system was fine and wasn't broken; and much better.1 -
Cireous✭✭✭✭✭
✭Love the new system, but I also want more passives and am sitting on points that have no value elsewhere.1 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And don't get me going about the green tree. Why on Earth do I need to unlock a furnishing perk in order to get to the fishing ones?
Perhaps it's because I've been using skill trees where I had to buy something less useful to get to the things I really wanted, in many games for years & years now, but that kind of thing just seems normal to me. It's just how skill trees work. /shrugEdited by Kiralyn2000 on October 5, 2021 12:59PM0 -
pdblake✭✭✭✭✭
✭By "power gap" do people mean the gap between PvP players? As far as I am aware, at least in all the single player games I've played, PvE progression is to make the difficult stuff, well, less difficult. So if that boss at the start of the game splats you like a bug you go off and level up a bit and swat it right back. I don't see what difference it makes if one player is uber powerful and another isn't, except for PvP. In which case they need separate trees for PvP and PvE, in fact a lot of other separate stuff too.Edited by pdblake on October 5, 2021 1:01PM0 -
Supreme_Atromancer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭By "power gap" do people mean the gap between PvP players? As far as I am aware, at least in all the single player games I've played, PvE progression is to make the difficult stuff, well, less difficult. So if that boss at the start of the game splats you like a bug you go off and level up a bit and swat it right back. I don't see what difference it makes if one player is uber powerful and another isn't, except for PvP. In which case they need separate trees for PvP and PvE, in fact a lot of other separate stuff too.
Think of the logical conclusion of trying to calibrate difficulty in PvE. Uber powerful players wont be happy if everything is a breeze, and newer players will be vastly underpowered for any content built for some average level. And with each recalibration, more people are left behind, or expected to grind some ridiculous amount of xp to get anywhere near that ever-receding goal. While long-time players were able to grow with the content, with relatively minimal grind and experience gained largely just by doing the content, each new generation of incoming players, who don't have that luxury, must mindlessly grind. That's not an appealing idea if your first task in a new game you don't yet know anything about is to grind hard before you can do any of the interesting new content.
Look at the way pugs go. People are still regularly kicked from groups if they don't have whatever arbitrary cp is expected. Apart from the crappy experience this leads to, logistically it just fragments the community even further if you don't have a power cap. I love that I can run with someone who's only been playing for a couple months in brand new vet dungeons or almost any content really and we will both have a great time.
For these reasons, capping power is a great idea, and I support ZOS' implementation of this wholeheartedly.
But a sense of progression is still very important, and the alternative they offered is a great idea, but meaningless in execution.Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on October 5, 2021 1:23PM0 -
Sailor_Palutena✭✭✭✭Soul_Soliloquy wrote: »I do feel there should be more passives we can put CP points into ... I'm only 1300 & something CP & seriously running out of places to put points
I've points and slotted everything I wanted. I'm just spending my way to fishing bonus for when I decide to go fishing.1 -
summ0004✭✭✭Personally I would rather the CP system not give any buffs to damage or survivability. Far too much powercreep in this game that alienates certain players out of certain activities and splits the playerbase.
I would like it to have just sustain, crafting, stealth, and maybe unlocks for mounts/pets/costumes/skins etc.Edited by summ0004 on October 12, 2021 6:28PM0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Personally I would rather the CP system not give any buffs to damage or survivability. Far too much powercreep in this game that alienates certain players out of certain activities and splits the playerbase.
I would like it to have just sustain, crafting, stealth, and maybe unlocks for mounts/pets/costumes/skins etc.
Sustain = Damage. This game is a game of tradeoffs. If sustain was part of CP, and no other damage or survivability was a part of it, someone with high CP would still be at a competitive advantage in combat. Without CP currently, I would probably struggle to sustain a rotation and would likely have to do something in my build to trade damage for sustain. In other words, a high CP player would be able to go full damage, and a low CP player probably couldn't. Nitpicking, perhaps, but it's worth noting.
To the OP, I like the new CP for the most part. I am almost to 1900 and use the extra CP to be able to change slottables on the fly.
The elephant in the room is the green tree. It has a horrible design, but it's also the tree I care least about. Some things that should be passives are slottables, some things that should be slottables are passives, and the worst part, useful slottables are locked behind useless slottables that are completely unrelated.0 -
The new system is WAY better, but needs some attention for sure. If you have 800 CP and don't know what to do with it, then you have a bit to learn about your class and its potential, that's all. You don't reach power cap in blue until around 1200 CP, but so there's stuff you're missing. If you're not into combat then that's fair enough, but for all those that are (I'm mainly here for trials) it's definitely an improvement as I can easily change slottables - for instance, I don't need backstabber in vSS since I can't flank any of the bosses, so I can slot Thaumaturge. When in vRG HM I need way more damage mitigation in blocking than I would anywhere else, so I change my red slottables to suit that. Same for Dungeon trifectas, when you do hard content those extra few percent that seem meaningless in a normal mode (or even vet mode non-dlc) dungeon suddently take on significance.
That said, four slottables is not enough. I get that it can be too much power creep, but it would be nice if there was a fifth slottable, perhaps when we use it we would sacrifice an appropriate amount from the other 4 to gain utility vs power, etc...
Also agree that passives need a bit more love, I think it's come a long way though, the extra trees should maybe be more passive and less slottable though.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the new CP system a lot better than the old one except for one thing...
There are way too many slottables and not enough passives.PCNA3
