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PVP dungeon/trial!!!!

ksbrugh
ksbrugh
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ESO needs something new for it's PvP players.
Now, like me I do both PVE and PvP. I do a lot of PVE and farming to support both my PVE and my PVP builds and I always buy all DLCs and ESO plus membership, but half of my gaming experience doesn't quite feel as loved as my other half does, jealousy I guess LoL.
A PVP dungeon/trial would be a unique mixture of PVE and PVP combined bringing maybe more PVP players to enjoy PVE as well as bringing more PVE players to enjoy PVP. It would most likely open up a whole new build meta because you wouldn't want to go in with lots of burst as you would in PvP but you would have to build more around sustain plus power overtime ​plus survivability. I figured since there combining stats like spell power and weapon power and weapon crit spell crit into crit chance same thing with penetration that it would be a good idea to merge PVP and PVE.

Thousands of ways it could be done. I'm sure the Devs with there ability to think on more of a programming orientation could come up with good ideas as well. But here's my idea
You could have it like three or four teams of four start off in their own area fight a few mobs and a boss they are dropped into or morphed or transported into an more of an open area where the room becomes inundated with mobs very aggressive mobs. Have the AI Target all individuals equally plus normal dungeon and trail mechanics, environmental traps you know all things you would see in a dungeon or trial. At this point players could also attack each other but the mobs would be stronger than normal dungeons to try and separate teams from one another but they could choose to work together and lower the amount of enemies in that room but at the same time risking taking damage from aoe's from other groups or the random team that just does not want to work together.
You could do it as one long continuous dungeon type setup or do it in a round set up like one round two round three round etc etc.
You could have the winning team based on scoring system like damage done, heals done, amount of damage blocked, objectives completed, deaths and resurrections etc etc but with healing damage and blocking being scored equally points removed for deaths maybe some points returned if you're able to resurrect an ally before a respawn timer. You can put in things like at certain times or a part of the mechanics that damaging an enemy team at that moment causes you to receive the damage maybe forcing players to work together but I would suggest probably not doing that. You could maybe have two separate winning categories like best team or best player would both receive a bonus loot. It would not be like imperial sewer the area would be smaller all the mobs would be automatically aggro'd on everybody and you would not lose half of your loot for dying
Anyways I'm sure other people can let their imagination run wild and leave their ideas for that type of scenario. Enjoy!!!
Edited by ksbrugh on October 11, 2021 10:58PM
  • ksbrugh
    ksbrugh
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    Make sure to leave a comment like you hate it love it at least
  • moo_2021
    moo_2021
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    How do you know groups wouldn't just cloak and backstab others who are fighting mobs?

    I have never seen any cooperation between groups. When they can backstab you they definitely would, and the game becomes unplayable because doing quest first => getting shot from behind and die.
  • WhyMustItBe
    WhyMustItBe
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    Isn't this pretty much what Imperial Sewers already did? What typically ends up happening is one side stays stealthed waiting for the other to engage the wandering bosses or Molag Bal, then ganks the healers and wipes them so they can take the Telvar and the boss kill.

    Most people seem not to really enjoy Imperial Sewers all that much.

    Edited by WhyMustItBe on October 11, 2021 10:03PM
  • Indigogo
    Indigogo
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    It's not for me.
    Won't touch IC out of events because I hate the format of mixing pve and pvp.
    I don't know why it feels so much different to guards in cyro, but it just does.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Why?

    If you're going to have competitive PvP trials what you do is you never have both teams fight each other. You should be able to see the other team fighting through the trial from across a giant crevice or glass panel, but only for the sake of seeing the enemy team's progress. Winner of the trial gets double rewards while the losing team gets standard rewards.

    Less headache for everyone that way as people doing PvE are not looking for PvP and vice versa. Competitive PvE could be a lot more fun though.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • ksbrugh
    ksbrugh
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    moo_2021 wrote: »
    How do you know groups wouldn't just cloak and backstab others who are fighting mobs?

    I have never seen any cooperation between groups. When they can backstab you they definitely would, and the game becomes unplayable because doing quest first => getting shot from behind and die.

    If you read completely I did say you could have mechanics where at certain times attacking another player, the damage would actually go back on you and not the other player you're attacking. But it was just an idea to try to spice up PVP since there's been no new maps for years that's all
  • ksbrugh
    ksbrugh
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    Vevvev wrote: »
    Why?

    If you're going to have competitive PvP trials what you do is you never have both teams fight each other. You should be able to see the other team fighting through the trial from across a giant crevice or glass panel, but only for the sake of seeing the enemy team's progress. Winner of the trial gets double rewards while the losing team gets standard rewards.

    Less headache for everyone that way as people doing PvE are not looking for PvP and vice versa. Competitive PvE could be a lot more fun though.

    Then it wouldn't be PVP it would just be competitive PVE
  • ksbrugh
    ksbrugh
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    Isn't this pretty much what Imperial Sewers already did? What typically ends up happening is one side stays stealthed waiting for the other to engage the wandering bosses or Molag Bal, then ganks the healers and wipes them so they can take the Telvar and the boss kill.

    Most people seem not to really enjoy Imperial Sewers all that much.

    Not at all like imperial City. Smaller more confined area unable to stealth out and wait, too many mobs forcefully attacking all players equally. Mechanics enabling and disabling the ability to attack other players without damage coming back at you if attacking at the wrong time. Imperial sewers are never populated because of the risk reward scenario its self. Who wants to play a game where you lose half of everything you worked hard to get because somebody ganks you from the shadows. Just look at the population that should give you your answer. Lol
  • AVaelham
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    They could do a PvPvE game mode like Gambit in Destiny 2 where you fight mobs and collect motes in a bank in the center of the arena. At 25 and 50 Motes deposited, a portal opens up which allows one player to invade the other team's area to hinder their progress. But considering IC's popularity it would be hated by most of the community haha.

  • James-Wayne
    James-Wayne
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    PvP is laggy and outright bad to play in it's current state so leave PvP out of any PvE content till either it's fixed or we get more servers closer to home.
    PERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders

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  • ksbrugh
    ksbrugh
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    Well anyways I thought it was a good idea. Something fresh you know. LoL oh well.
  • Callosum
    Callosum
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    I totally agree that PVP need some love and i like the idea with some PVPVE content. However, I would rather have them updating Imperiel city. The zone really got potential but seems to be stuck in the past. First of all the could increase the incentive and make more it accessible. After that some new content should be added to the zone.

    - Make tel var stones attractive and make them a transformable currency that players can convert to gold, transmutes and AP. - Make a que for IC that make players grouped with 4-8 other players when they enter the zone.
    - Some new content in there just to spice the zone up a bit. This could me something like your ideas :)


    Edited by Callosum on October 12, 2021 9:21AM
  • moo_2021
    moo_2021
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    ksbrugh wrote: »
    If you read completely I did say you could have mechanics where at certain times attacking another player, the damage would actually go back on you and not the other player you're attacking. But it was just an idea to try to spice up PVP since there's been no new maps for years that's all

    Missed that, yeah it could work.


    For the maps I think dungeons can also be easily used for attack-defend gameplay?

    Put attackers at the entry and defenders on the first boss area, whose task is to defend the boss or something else. Fight could happen anywhere and defenders can change spawn points between different boss areas that they still own (not taken by attackers)

    Attackers basically do the same as dungeons except maybe with less mobs and weaker bosses since defenders would join them, and without wipe. Also free to choose any conquered areas as spawn points.

    Shortcuts would also work and it's to up defenders to intercept enemies - they could always withdraw to the last defensible area.

    ----

    Games like that were super fun and usually 2 teams of 30 players fought on big maps for 1-2 hours. Rewards could be given based on contributions if anyone leaves early.
  • amir412
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    [snip]
    Seems like what you look for is exactly in a new game that just came out.

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Lunar on October 13, 2021 12:12PM
    PC | EU | AD | "@Saidden"| 1700 CP|
  • Jack-0
    Jack-0
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    I love it, it’s my favourite form of gameplay, proper risk vs reward. Essentially a riff on Imperial City but with more serious pve requirements and a tighter space to fight in.

    Older players may remember the sheer mayhem and pleasure of Ultima Online’s champion spawns; if the devs could just copy that whole system for us that would be superb.
    Edited by Jack-0 on October 13, 2021 10:26AM
  • Artim_X
    Artim_X
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    Cloud Ruler Temple has been teasing us since beta and the Waterfront District could be a new PvP map like the Arcane University.
    (AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanist
    Electric-Stun
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    • Roleplay Damage Dealing Build.
    • Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Kinras's jewelry (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
    • Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Shocking Soul (Shock damage, Class Mastery Signature Script, and Empower), and Power Overload.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Storm Pulsar, Streak, Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Storms, Shocking Burst (Shock Damage, remove 1 negative effect, and interrupt) and Thunderous Rage.
      Solo: Use Kinras's chest, replace Mora with Ring of the Pale Order, and use a heavy Slimcraw piece for max critical.
    Electric-Pets
    https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNHVjemwxZHI2ZmQ2bTg1ZG0xOTZ3b2QwajBzNGxmaHh6OXRpN3p6YSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/eBgWizk5dmZRS/giphy.gif
    • Stress free one bar pet build .
    • Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants. No chest piece), 1 medium Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, medium, Max Mag Enchants), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant ring and necklace (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant), Oakensoul ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant)
    • Ability-Bar: Daedric Prey, Summon Volatile Familiar, Bound Armaments, Unstable Wall of Storms, Summon Twilight Matriarch, and Greater storm Atronach.
    Electric-Heal
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    • My Healer Build.
    • Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
    • Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
    Electric-Ward
    https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gif
    • My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
    • Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Iceheart (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Prismatic Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (bloodthirsty with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), Combat Physician restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and combat physician ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
    Electric-Vamp
    https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable with Prismatic Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Prismtaic Enchants). Knight Slayer (Swift with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Regenerative Ward, and Shatter Soul.
    Dawnfang
    https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gif
    • My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that primarily utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
    • Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward/Breath of life, and Crescent Sweep.
    Duskfang
    https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
    Eye of the Queen
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/44/1c/fd441c8242af6ec35ada94496feb0901.gif
    • My casual one bar heavy attack Arcanist build that primarily utilizes Herald of the Tome abilities.
    • Gear: 5 Noble Duelist (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 light Slimecraw for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (precise/shock enchant), Sergeant's chest (Divines and max magicka enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (bloodthirsty with spell damage enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Pragmatic Fatecarver, Cephaliarch's Flail, Rune of Displacement, Inspired Scholarship/Evolving Runemend, and The Languid Eye.
    Eye of the King
    https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExOTAzdjV1eTgwbDFmM3lrZmxuMXRqdDR3Y3h1ZDRpajR0M3VjZzQ3NSZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/zXmbOaTpbY6mA/giphy.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on chest/head/legs and everything else Prismatic Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Prismatic Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both Swift with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Swift with Spell Damage Enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Escalating Runeblades, Race Against Time, Rune of Uncanny Adoration, Evolving Runemend, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver.
    PvE Starter Gear
    https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gif
    • Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
    • Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
    Race
    https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gif
    • High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
    Mundus Stones
    https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gif
    • PvP: The Steed for speed. Gotta go fast!
    • PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
    • PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
    Current Champion Points
    https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gif
    • DPS: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
    • PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • PvP Temp/Arcanist: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    Favorite Foods and Potions
    https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif
    • Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
    • Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
    • Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
    • Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar/arcanist will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
  • xgoku1
    xgoku1
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    ESO Battle Royale when
  • Mayrael
    Mayrael
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    In a certain other MMO game starting with "A" there was such an activity available only during certain hours. It consisted of two teams fighting each other to see who could earn more points and kill the final boss. In terms of PvE this activity required a lot of knowledge and cooperation because it was very easy to make too big pull and the whole team died losing points. In terms of PvP, well, it varied, but was always interesting. The mix of strong PvE and PvP opponents made this activity take on a completely different dimension. I have fond memories of this type of game, so I personally think that the OP's idea deserves at least some attention and consideration.
    Say no to Toxic Casuals!
    I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.


    "Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge
  • ValarMorghulis1896
    ValarMorghulis1896
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    I personally like the mix of PVE and PVP in the IC but I know I'm not the majority... So I'm afraid the new dungeon will be pretty empty.
    ...But i agree that PvP needs some love. Activating the Cloud Ruler Temple as mentioned above (with the possibility of getting additional bonuses for your alliance for example) could be a first step :)
    "It is often said that before you die your life passes before your eyes. It is in fact true. It's called living." Terry Pratchett
    “I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" Death thought about it. "CATS", he said eventually. "CATS ARE NICE.” Terry Pratchett
  • Darrett
    Darrett
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    Isn't this pretty much what Imperial Sewers already did? What typically ends up happening is one side stays stealthed waiting for the other to engage the wandering bosses or Molag Bal, then ganks the healers and wipes them so they can take the Telvar and the boss kill.

    Most people seem not to really enjoy Imperial Sewers all that much.

    This is what IC and the Sewers were supposed to be, but it becomes much less viable with the One Tamriel changes making alliance choice essentially meaningless.

    Originally the concept was that success in Cyrodiil would allow your alliance to open the IC. Enemy players could still be in there from when they controlled the zone, but they couldn’t respawn on death.

    It was a reimplementation of the excellent Darkness Falls dungeon from DAoC.

    With allowing multiple characters of different alliances and combining the player base, I’m not sure how they can really implement much along those lines anymore.
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
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    This sounds like a nightmare. In fact, it sounds exactly like what GTA Online did when they brought out the mercenary/drug dealing/weapon manufacturing/car stealing DLCs. They forced you to do missions in-game to build those enterprises AND incentivized other players to kill you while on the missions, whereas before it was an instanced mission where you could not friendly-fire other players in the instance. It got to the point that you had to get into lobbies where only your guild/gang members or friends were the other players so you could complete them without being trolled.

    No. Thank. You.
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