Instant Dying in Pvp?

divnyi · October 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

"Play your way" doesn't apply to PVP.

If you're not following the meta and not using your skills (and god forbid you have any lag) then you will die, quickly.

Its like the opposite of PVE. The cruelty is the point.

This is so wrong on so many levels. If anything, PvP build diversity is much higher than of high-end PvE, because in PvE only one stat matters - DPS. So you only have a handful of builds that are capable of pushing top DPS numbers, others are subpar. In PvP you have basic "Burst - Toughness - Sustain" triangle - which is extremely robust and allows many different builds to be valid even in 1vs1 scenario.

divnyi · October 2021

Quelindor wrote: »

but maybe i shouldn't expect even midrange fights like 2-3 mins. Can someone verify that?

You shouldn't. People preload burst to happen in 2-3 seconds frame, + several frames to finish if possible. If that's not happening, people either disengage or idk stand and apply DoTs, HoTs and do heavy attacks to restore resources, trying to find an opening.

This advices here might also help: https://divnyi.gitlab.io/weird-eso-builds/why-do-you-have-pvp-as-pve-player/

Fun note: I've just made me a cancerous stamsorc with plague+syvarra+treaders, bow and all movement speed, several days ago. I'm not yet accustomed to stamsorc toolkit but I made some easy 11/0/16 or smth like that in first few games. Surviving on stamsorc is such an easymode, no wonder why so many people in high MMR bowsorc.

gariondavey · October 2021

divnyi wrote: »

Quelindor wrote: »

but maybe i shouldn't expect even midrange fights like 2-3 mins. Can someone verify that?

You shouldn't. People preload burst to happen in 2-3 seconds frame, + several frames to finish if possible. If that's not happening, people either disengage or idk stand and apply DoTs, HoTs and do heavy attacks to restore resources, trying to find an opening.

This advices here might also help: https://divnyi.gitlab.io/weird-eso-builds/why-do-you-have-pvp-as-pve-player/

Fun note: I've just made me a cancerous stamsorc with plague+syvarra+treaders, bow and all movement speed, several days ago. I'm not yet accustomed to stamsorc toolkit but I made some easy 11/0/16 or smth like that in first few games. Surviving on stamsorc is such an easymode, no wonder why so many people in high MMR bowsorc.

@divnyi did you make a write up for the bow sorc? Sounds really fun. I need to level my stamsorc and this sounds promising!

moo_2021 · October 2021

divnyi wrote: »

Fun note: I've just made me a cancerous stamsorc with plague+syvarra+treaders, bow and all movement speed, several days ago. I'm not yet accustomed to stamsorc toolkit but I made some easy 11/0/16 or smth like that in first few games. Surviving on stamsorc is such an easymode, no wonder why so many people in high MMR bowsorc.

What does sorc offer to a bow build? streak?

gariondavey · October 2021

moo_2021 wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Fun note: I've just made me a cancerous stamsorc with plague+syvarra+treaders, bow and all movement speed, several days ago. I'm not yet accustomed to stamsorc toolkit but I made some easy 11/0/16 or smth like that in first few games. Surviving on stamsorc is such an easymode, no wonder why so many people in high MMR bowsorc.

What does sorc offer to a bow build? streak?

Mobility, ult reduction, the best group ult in the game

divnyi · October 2021

gariondavey wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Quelindor wrote: »

but maybe i shouldn't expect even midrange fights like 2-3 mins. Can someone verify that?

You shouldn't. People preload burst to happen in 2-3 seconds frame, + several frames to finish if possible. If that's not happening, people either disengage or idk stand and apply DoTs, HoTs and do heavy attacks to restore resources, trying to find an opening.

This advices here might also help: https://divnyi.gitlab.io/weird-eso-builds/why-do-you-have-pvp-as-pve-player/

Fun note: I've just made me a cancerous stamsorc with plague+syvarra+treaders, bow and all movement speed, several days ago. I'm not yet accustomed to stamsorc toolkit but I made some easy 11/0/16 or smth like that in first few games. Surviving on stamsorc is such an easymode, no wonder why so many people in high MMR bowsorc.

@divnyi did you make a write up for the bow sorc? Sounds really fun. I need to level my stamsorc and this sounds promising!

Didn't yet, and uh, it can take several weeks to actually make a vid and writeup properly. So I'll write key points here instead:

Stamsorc is hard-carried by Dark Deal. You can literally have ZERO sustain pieces (3x damage glyphs) in the build and it will still work, just need to pay attention to your stam and Dark Deal between fights more. Food is tristat, so you have loads of mana. Drink is tristat too.

As for what makes bowsorc fun, it's easy 15s of Minor Expedition on Hurricane. Take Well-Fitted and you can gain easy access to 4s of Major Expedition on bow bar. And I also run Elude so I have Major Exp mid fight for free.
+45% speed from expeditions
+20% from tripple swift on jewels
+10% steed mundus

Cover that with treaders (only CC you'll get is stun, no roots or immobilizes) and add some streaks on top, and you can kite everything for days. Healing is one of the best in stam due to the fact that Dark Deal heals a lot (beware of range interrupts).

Given that bow provides best AoE immobilize in form of Bombard, and sorc has best AoE stun (undodgeable, unblockable, does damage) in form of streak, you can be very annoying to opponent if you can't outright burst them down. Double poison procs also add to that strategy.

Second bar should have execute. It's either DW for undodgeable execute (know lots of ppl who do that), or 2h for cheaper and stronger but dodgeable execute. I roll 2h vate and it adds to the burst range (as you know, you don't need full heavy - lightest medium attack can be done in split second).

Always preload Crystal Weapon before fight. Crystal -> LA + Bombard = double spammable damage + procs. Up from that you either go streak -> (barswap) execute or retreat, or set up another crystal to spam a bit, that can be transformed into *skip LA* streak -> LA + vate proc + execute.

As you can see gameplay resolves around easy to control burst, but the amount of it isn't that high. So what you basically do is zooming around trying to find some damaged enemies to finish, steal the kill and run out.

Ultis - Power Overload + cheap melee (2h ulti or dawnbreaker). You can use whatever ulti you have above melee ult with Overload (and you have 500 at the beginning of BG). It adds approx 2.5 spammable damages when you do your BnB combo (crystal -> LA+bombard -> LA+streak -> LA+execute), which increases threat range significantly. Just don't burn it when you face tough opponents, turn it off.

I'm also experimenting with adding Endless Fury to my build (due to running High Elf + tristat food), but that's my kink and it's probably suboptimal.

gariondavey · October 2021

divnyi wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Quelindor wrote: »

but maybe i shouldn't expect even midrange fights like 2-3 mins. Can someone verify that?

You shouldn't. People preload burst to happen in 2-3 seconds frame, + several frames to finish if possible. If that's not happening, people either disengage or idk stand and apply DoTs, HoTs and do heavy attacks to restore resources, trying to find an opening.

This advices here might also help: https://divnyi.gitlab.io/weird-eso-builds/why-do-you-have-pvp-as-pve-player/

Fun note: I've just made me a cancerous stamsorc with plague+syvarra+treaders, bow and all movement speed, several days ago. I'm not yet accustomed to stamsorc toolkit but I made some easy 11/0/16 or smth like that in first few games. Surviving on stamsorc is such an easymode, no wonder why so many people in high MMR bowsorc.

@divnyi did you make a write up for the bow sorc? Sounds really fun. I need to level my stamsorc and this sounds promising!

Didn't yet, and uh, it can take several weeks to actually make a vid and writeup properly. So I'll write key points here instead:

Stamsorc is hard-carried by Dark Deal. You can literally have ZERO sustain pieces (3x damage glyphs) in the build and it will still work, just need to pay attention to your stam and Dark Deal between fights more. Food is tristat, so you have loads of mana. Drink is tristat too.

As for what makes bowsorc fun, it's easy 15s of Minor Expedition on Hurricane. Take Well-Fitted and you can gain easy access to 4s of Major Expedition on bow bar. And I also run Elude so I have Major Exp mid fight for free.
+45% speed from expeditions
+20% from tripple swift on jewels
+10% steed mundus

Cover that with treaders (only CC you'll get is stun, no roots or immobilizes) and add some streaks on top, and you can kite everything for days. Healing is one of the best in stam due to the fact that Dark Deal heals a lot (beware of range interrupts).

Given that bow provides best AoE immobilize in form of Bombard, and sorc has best AoE stun (undodgeable, unblockable, does damage) in form of streak, you can be very annoying to opponent if you can't outright burst them down. Double poison procs also add to that strategy.

Second bar should have execute. It's either DW for undodgeable execute (know lots of ppl who do that), or 2h for cheaper and stronger but dodgeable execute. I roll 2h vate and it adds to the burst range (as you know, you don't need full heavy - lightest medium attack can be done in split second).

Always preload Crystal Weapon before fight. Crystal -> LA + Bombard = double spammable damage + procs. Up from that you either go streak -> (barswap) execute or retreat, or set up another crystal to spam a bit, that can be transformed into *skip LA* streak -> LA + vate proc + execute.

As you can see gameplay resolves around easy to control burst, but the amount of it isn't that high. So what you basically do is zooming around trying to find some damaged enemies to finish, steal the kill and run out.

Ultis - Power Overload + cheap melee (2h ulti or dawnbreaker). You can use whatever ulti you have above melee ult with Overload (and you have 500 at the beginning of BG). It adds approx 2.5 spammable damages when you do your BnB combo (crystal -> LA+bombard -> LA+streak -> LA+execute), which increases threat range significantly. Just don't burn it when you face tough opponents, turn it off.

I'm also experimenting with adding Endless Fury to my build (due to running High Elf + tristat food), but that's my kink and it's probably suboptimal.

Thanks @divnyi! That's really neat, thanks for the write up. Asylum dw next patch might be a good replacement for the vate 2h, given your speed aspect. I assume last slot is 1 trainee. I would think the skills with bow + dw would be like this:

Bow - bombard/crystal/vigor/camo hunter?/streak/negate or power overload
Dw - spin2win/dark deal/elude/crit surge/hurricane/dawnbreaker

Not sure about the camo hunter - should this be on burst bar or execute bar, or not at all (potions?).
This would open up a flex slot for something like flare/bound armaments/draining shot/haunting curse/endless fury. Thoughts?

divnyi · October 2021

gariondavey wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Quelindor wrote: »

but maybe i shouldn't expect even midrange fights like 2-3 mins. Can someone verify that?

You shouldn't. People preload burst to happen in 2-3 seconds frame, + several frames to finish if possible. If that's not happening, people either disengage or idk stand and apply DoTs, HoTs and do heavy attacks to restore resources, trying to find an opening.

This advices here might also help: https://divnyi.gitlab.io/weird-eso-builds/why-do-you-have-pvp-as-pve-player/

Fun note: I've just made me a cancerous stamsorc with plague+syvarra+treaders, bow and all movement speed, several days ago. I'm not yet accustomed to stamsorc toolkit but I made some easy 11/0/16 or smth like that in first few games. Surviving on stamsorc is such an easymode, no wonder why so many people in high MMR bowsorc.

@divnyi did you make a write up for the bow sorc? Sounds really fun. I need to level my stamsorc and this sounds promising!

Didn't yet, and uh, it can take several weeks to actually make a vid and writeup properly. So I'll write key points here instead:

Stamsorc is hard-carried by Dark Deal. You can literally have ZERO sustain pieces (3x damage glyphs) in the build and it will still work, just need to pay attention to your stam and Dark Deal between fights more. Food is tristat, so you have loads of mana. Drink is tristat too.

As for what makes bowsorc fun, it's easy 15s of Minor Expedition on Hurricane. Take Well-Fitted and you can gain easy access to 4s of Major Expedition on bow bar. And I also run Elude so I have Major Exp mid fight for free.
+45% speed from expeditions
+20% from tripple swift on jewels
+10% steed mundus

Cover that with treaders (only CC you'll get is stun, no roots or immobilizes) and add some streaks on top, and you can kite everything for days. Healing is one of the best in stam due to the fact that Dark Deal heals a lot (beware of range interrupts).

Given that bow provides best AoE immobilize in form of Bombard, and sorc has best AoE stun (undodgeable, unblockable, does damage) in form of streak, you can be very annoying to opponent if you can't outright burst them down. Double poison procs also add to that strategy.

Second bar should have execute. It's either DW for undodgeable execute (know lots of ppl who do that), or 2h for cheaper and stronger but dodgeable execute. I roll 2h vate and it adds to the burst range (as you know, you don't need full heavy - lightest medium attack can be done in split second).

Always preload Crystal Weapon before fight. Crystal -> LA + Bombard = double spammable damage + procs. Up from that you either go streak -> (barswap) execute or retreat, or set up another crystal to spam a bit, that can be transformed into *skip LA* streak -> LA + vate proc + execute.

As you can see gameplay resolves around easy to control burst, but the amount of it isn't that high. So what you basically do is zooming around trying to find some damaged enemies to finish, steal the kill and run out.

Ultis - Power Overload + cheap melee (2h ulti or dawnbreaker). You can use whatever ulti you have above melee ult with Overload (and you have 500 at the beginning of BG). It adds approx 2.5 spammable damages when you do your BnB combo (crystal -> LA+bombard -> LA+streak -> LA+execute), which increases threat range significantly. Just don't burn it when you face tough opponents, turn it off.

I'm also experimenting with adding Endless Fury to my build (due to running High Elf + tristat food), but that's my kink and it's probably suboptimal.

Thanks @divnyi! That's really neat, thanks for the write up. Asylum dw next patch might be a good replacement for the vate 2h, given your speed aspect. I assume last slot is 1 trainee. I would think the skills with bow + dw would be like this:

Bow - bombard/crystal/vigor/camo hunter?/streak/negate
Dw - spin2win/dark deal/elude/crit surge/hurricane/dawnbreaker

Not sure about the camo hunter - should this be on burst bar or execute bar, or not at all (potions?).
This would open up a flex slot for something like flare/bound armaments/draining shot. Thoughts?

Last slot is WD monster set to max out proc damage.

Yeah, exactly, I think PTS whirlwind will go crazy on this build. Tho 2h vate have upsides compared to that too - WD bonus on bow bar, explosion+execute is very sweet.

My bars:

2h: Rally, Dark Deal, Vigor (healing trinity), execute, streak; == 2h ulti ==
Bow: Crystal, Bombard, Elude, Hurricane, Endless Fury (was Bound Armaments, which is good for burst too); == Power Overload ==

If you want negate for cyro teamfights I'd say drop 2h ulti, not overload. Trust me, overload is very cheap and does very competitive damage, while also not using whole ulti bar at the same time - so you can start with overload spam into negate.

gariondavey · October 2021

divnyi wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

divnyi wrote: »

Quelindor wrote: »

but maybe i shouldn't expect even midrange fights like 2-3 mins. Can someone verify that?

You shouldn't. People preload burst to happen in 2-3 seconds frame, + several frames to finish if possible. If that's not happening, people either disengage or idk stand and apply DoTs, HoTs and do heavy attacks to restore resources, trying to find an opening.

This advices here might also help: https://divnyi.gitlab.io/weird-eso-builds/why-do-you-have-pvp-as-pve-player/

Fun note: I've just made me a cancerous stamsorc with plague+syvarra+treaders, bow and all movement speed, several days ago. I'm not yet accustomed to stamsorc toolkit but I made some easy 11/0/16 or smth like that in first few games. Surviving on stamsorc is such an easymode, no wonder why so many people in high MMR bowsorc.

@divnyi did you make a write up for the bow sorc? Sounds really fun. I need to level my stamsorc and this sounds promising!

Didn't yet, and uh, it can take several weeks to actually make a vid and writeup properly. So I'll write key points here instead:

Stamsorc is hard-carried by Dark Deal. You can literally have ZERO sustain pieces (3x damage glyphs) in the build and it will still work, just need to pay attention to your stam and Dark Deal between fights more. Food is tristat, so you have loads of mana. Drink is tristat too.

As for what makes bowsorc fun, it's easy 15s of Minor Expedition on Hurricane. Take Well-Fitted and you can gain easy access to 4s of Major Expedition on bow bar. And I also run Elude so I have Major Exp mid fight for free.
+45% speed from expeditions
+20% from tripple swift on jewels
+10% steed mundus

Cover that with treaders (only CC you'll get is stun, no roots or immobilizes) and add some streaks on top, and you can kite everything for days. Healing is one of the best in stam due to the fact that Dark Deal heals a lot (beware of range interrupts).

Given that bow provides best AoE immobilize in form of Bombard, and sorc has best AoE stun (undodgeable, unblockable, does damage) in form of streak, you can be very annoying to opponent if you can't outright burst them down. Double poison procs also add to that strategy.

Second bar should have execute. It's either DW for undodgeable execute (know lots of ppl who do that), or 2h for cheaper and stronger but dodgeable execute. I roll 2h vate and it adds to the burst range (as you know, you don't need full heavy - lightest medium attack can be done in split second).

Always preload Crystal Weapon before fight. Crystal -> LA + Bombard = double spammable damage + procs. Up from that you either go streak -> (barswap) execute or retreat, or set up another crystal to spam a bit, that can be transformed into *skip LA* streak -> LA + vate proc + execute.

As you can see gameplay resolves around easy to control burst, but the amount of it isn't that high. So what you basically do is zooming around trying to find some damaged enemies to finish, steal the kill and run out.

Ultis - Power Overload + cheap melee (2h ulti or dawnbreaker). You can use whatever ulti you have above melee ult with Overload (and you have 500 at the beginning of BG). It adds approx 2.5 spammable damages when you do your BnB combo (crystal -> LA+bombard -> LA+streak -> LA+execute), which increases threat range significantly. Just don't burn it when you face tough opponents, turn it off.

I'm also experimenting with adding Endless Fury to my build (due to running High Elf + tristat food), but that's my kink and it's probably suboptimal.

Thanks @divnyi! That's really neat, thanks for the write up. Asylum dw next patch might be a good replacement for the vate 2h, given your speed aspect. I assume last slot is 1 trainee. I would think the skills with bow + dw would be like this:

Bow - bombard/crystal/vigor/camo hunter?/streak/negate
Dw - spin2win/dark deal/elude/crit surge/hurricane/dawnbreaker

Not sure about the camo hunter - should this be on burst bar or execute bar, or not at all (potions?).
This would open up a flex slot for something like flare/bound armaments/draining shot. Thoughts?

Last slot is WD monster set to max out proc damage.

Yeah, exactly, I think PTS whirlwind will go crazy on this build. Tho 2h vate have upsides compared to that too - WD bonus on bow bar, explosion+execute is very sweet.

My bars:

2h: Rally, Dark Deal, Vigor (healing trinity), execute, streak; == 2h ulti ==
Bow: Crystal, Bombard, Elude, Hurricane, Endless Fury (was Bound Armaments, which is good for burst too); == Power Overload ==

If you want negate for cyro teamfights I'd say drop 2h ulti, not overload. Trust me, overload is very cheap and does very competitive damage, while also not using whole ulti bar at the same time - so you can start with overload spam into negate.

Ah ok, didn't realize how good overload was. Yeah, with the vate 2h changes the wd is the focus more than the damage, which is what they should have done ages ago. I'll have to see if I have asylum dw. Without rally I was thinking of draining shot, the snare on it is really strong, too. But a haunting curse/endless fury/bound armaments with the bnb combo really looks oppressive. Hmmmm interesting. Without minor endurance from rally, and with using crit surge, I'm not sure if I'd want to use another mag skill as that would take away from streaks and dark deals.

DrSlaughtr · October 2021

Lot of long posts in this thread but it comes down to this.

A melee build HAS to run a defense set like pariah or you get melted. It's that simple. PvP is about surviving just as much about killing, save a few select builds, none of which are stam sorcs.

Pariah is currently the best. You could also go impregnable or fortified brass if you don't have the resources to get pariah.

gariondavey · October 2021

TheEndBringer wrote: »

Lot of long posts in this thread but it comes down to this.

A melee build HAS to run a defense set like pariah or you get melted. It's that simple. PvP is about surviving just as much about killing, save a few select builds, none of which are stam sorcs.

Pariah is currently the best. You could also go impregnable or fortified brass if you don't have the resources to get pariah.

I don't run pariah on my stam dk. I run 7th legion with snb backbar, champion of hist body (minor heroism set), bloodspawn, master 2h front bar. Brawler shield + almost perma snb ult + 30k hp heavy armor is pretty tanky.

divnyi · October 2021

gariondavey wrote: »

haunting curse/endless fury/bound armaments

Way too long, also full curse/fury is just worse than magsorc.

With just fury you go crystal (preload) -> fury, no LA (animation is long, at this point you grab attention) -> LA + bombard (yeah attention is cool, but here are your CCs) -> streak (and another CC) -> execute.

So the point is to be able to kill some squishy enemies in one short string, while also double as ranged kill steal button

MEBengalsFan2001 · October 2021

Quelindor wrote: »

Hello,

I am playing this game time to time since release. Main reason that i can't stick to the game for long period, it's the pvp. Whenever i enter to the battlegrounds or cyrodill, i just instantly dying.
Well i know this is 3432432. topic about the same situation, but i couldn't answer for my problems.

Firstly, i am playing Stamina Sorcerer. I have 5 Venomous, 5 New Moon, 2 Selene Armor pieces. Playing DW+Bow. 526 cp but always playing pvp without cp. I am playing this since the release and really love the concept of the class.

My stats like this;
https://imgur.com/a/870c6vV

I've played too many mmorpg games. Never insta killed in any other game. I've played GW2 recently for the first time. And even in level 10, when i enter to battleground for the first time i could do something, and lived for minutes. In eso, when i saw enemy it's only 5 sec to die for me. I've played this game really long time and never finished bg with decent players without instantly dying.
I know i have low resistance, yet when i try to increase my resistance, my crit or my weapon damage decrease. Even that crit and weapon damage, most of the time i can't do decent damage. However, sometimes i can finish the bg first in kill count, but i know that the only reason enemies were like me.
Every bg is the same, i see one dragonknight charging to me and then i die. If i roll dodge the first charge the second one kills me. Or some mage sending 2-3 fireballs to me and i just die.
I saw builds on youtube that people have 7k weapon damage %20++ crit and also 25k resistance. How can be that possible? I can't understand how can people balance their stats, and increase their resistance to 25k without decrease their damage. I just want to fight with people longer time so i can try to focus on mechanics, or tactics or something like that.
I need somekind of guidance, what should i do? Where to start?

Sorry for my English.

Make sure you have binding flare from the support line on your main bar, that is a 10% damage reduction right there. That will greatly help you out. Secondly, if you aren't using shuffle or an ability that provides 20% damage reduction against AoE damage, add an ability that provides that. One final thing, get it to at minimum 30K without CP but with food. Best of luck.

gariondavey · October 2021

divnyi wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

haunting curse/endless fury/bound armaments

Way too long, also full curse/fury is just worse than magsorc.

With just fury you go crystal (preload) -> fury, no LA (animation is long, at this point you grab attention) -> LA + bombard (yeah attention is cool, but here are your CCs) -> streak (and another CC) -> execute.

So the point is to be able to kill some squishy enemies in one short string, while also double as ranged kill steal button

I mean curse/fury/bound armaments as in "pick 1" not all 3. XD. It was an argument for using one of those delayed burst abilities or using draining shot.

I guess fury returns magicka so maybe that could still work even if I'm using crit surge (costs magicka).

moo_2021 · October 2021

gariondavey wrote: »

Mobility, ult reduction, the best group ult in the game

what's the ult? I thought every sorc use meteor... suppression field?

gariondavey · October 2021

moo_2021 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Mobility, ult reduction, the best group ult in the game

what's the ult? I thought every sorc use meteor... suppression field?

Negate babyyyy

divnyi · October 2021

moo_2021 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Mobility, ult reduction, the best group ult in the game

what's the ult? I thought every sorc use meteor... suppression field?

Negate. It's so good that even some zergs ask to slot it on all sorcs in cyro to kill other groups in PvP.

Like, you can kill a ball group if you put 4-5 consequtive negates - if they can't heal long enough - they die.

It's less effective in smallscale pvp like BGs, but it's totally legit move to slot it, say, on sorc healer - because taking ult that helps you burst doesn't make sense, you don't burst. You are taking ult that heals your group and ult that screws enemy group for coordinated assault.

Fazuszek · October 2021

Record ur bg video, post is somewhere/or send and i will tell u whats wrong with ur gameplay/skills. Until i see HOW u play, i cant give u any advice. Trust me, i know how to play them.

UGotBenched91 · October 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

"Play your way" doesn't apply to PVP.

If you're not following the meta and not using your skills (and god forbid you have any lag) then you will die, quickly.

Its like the opposite of PVE. The cruelty is the point.

Maybe in overland and solo PVE. In group PVE if you're not running the meta sets your trial group wants or the skills then the "play your way" isn't usually embraced by your team.