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Enduum's "Dawn Era" Ayleids

Enodoc
Enodoc
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The loading screen for Enduum (Ayleid ruin in Glenumbra) says "The halls of lost Enduum are given a wide berth by the local Bretons, who claim that its corridors and chambers are haunted by ghosts of the ancient Ayleids who built them back in the Dawn Era."

Surely this cannot be correct. If this Ayleid city was built in the Dawn Era, it would predate the construction of Adamantine Tower, which by definition marks the end of the Dawn Era, and is known in lore to be "the oldest known structure in Tamriel". Temporal nonlinearity would also infer that it would not even be possible for a structure to be "built" in the Dawn Era at all. It is my belief therefore that the loading screen is in error, and should instead say "Merethic Era". Thoughts?
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  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Oooooo reckt zos
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  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
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    I'm inclined to agree this is an error.
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
    A useful explanation for how RNG works
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  • MAEK
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    The local bretons say that, so perhaps they just need a history lesson?

    Edit: Or it could be as you say and it's supposed to say Merethic Era instead.
    Edited by MAEK on February 11, 2018 3:00PM
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  • ghastley
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    MAEK wrote: »
    The local bretons say that, so perhaps they just need a history lesson?

    Edit: Or it could be as you say and it's supposed to say Merethic Era instead.

    Exactly, it's an error with the legend only. Most legends exaggerate things, especially how old things were, or how big the creature was that destroyed it, or how many were in the opposing army.

    So Dawn Era means "Before I was born, anyhow. And since I wasn't there, this is my best guess."

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  • ealdwin
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    Also, should it not be an Direnni/Aldmer ruin (if only in text description). That area of High Rock wasn't part of any Ayleid kingdom, nor was it ever settled by the Ayleids.

    (oops, a post necro. should check dates next time I stumble on a post via search)
    Edited by ealdwin on September 22, 2021 4:56PM
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  • Enodoc
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    ealdwin wrote: »
    Also, should it not be an Direnni/Aldmer ruin (if only in text description). That area of High Rock wasn't part of any Ayleid kingdom, nor was it ever settled by the Ayleids.

    (oops, a post necro. should check dates next time I stumble on a post via search)
    You're not wrong of course. There appear to be way too many Ayleid Ruins and not enough Direnni ruins in High Rock overall.
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  • poorrabbit
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    ghastley wrote: »
    MAEK wrote: »
    The local bretons say that, so perhaps they just need a history lesson?

    Edit: Or it could be as you say and it's supposed to say Merethic Era instead.

    Exactly, it's an error with the legend only. Most legends exaggerate things, especially how old things were, or how big the creature was that destroyed it, or how many were in the opposing army.

    So Dawn Era means "Before I was born, anyhow. And since I wasn't there, this is my best guess."

    There's a lot...and I mean a LOT...or lore that is provided by "unreliable narrators". A number of the lore books
    in the mainline ES games have contradictory information. Sort of like real life.

    Where were you during the dragon break?

    lol.
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  • Supreme_Atromancer
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    poorrabbit wrote: »
    There's a lot...and I mean a LOT...or lore that is provided by "unreliable narrators". A number of the lore books
    in the mainline ES games have contradictory information. Sort of like real life.

    But there's also a fair bit of flat-out sloppy mistakes.

    The unreliable narrator is amazing when its deliberately used to create interesting stories to explore. When they're using it to retcon mistakes, it loses its value because it erodes faith, and leads to a degree of cynicism towards zos' handling of the lore.
    Enodoc wrote: »
    and not enough Direnni ruins in High Rock overall.

    Like, one.
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  • ElderZeref
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    ealdwin wrote: »
    Also, should it not be an Direnni/Aldmer ruin (if only in text description). That area of High Rock wasn't part of any Ayleid kingdom, nor was it ever settled by the Ayleids.

    (oops, a post necro. should check dates next time I stumble on a post via search)

    Thats not a problem. Ayleid had some relatives in Direnni Clan plus it might be some sort of expeditions. Like Blackmarch or Valenwood expeditions and ruins overthere.
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  • Jaimeh
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    It's most likely an oversight, but you could also argue that it could have been built during the Dawn Era after the Adamantine tower, but before Lorkhan was killed, maybe during the time of his leading the army of men into war, which is talked about in some of the accounts.
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  • ealdwin
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    Jaimeh wrote: »
    It's most likely an oversight, but you could also argue that it could have been built during the Dawn Era after the Adamantine tower, but before Lorkhan was killed, maybe during the time of his leading the army of men into war, which is talked about in some of the accounts.

    The issue with a Dawn Era founding date is that it would mean Enduum predates Topal the Pilot's exploration around the coast of Tamriel. Which in turn would raise the question about who these "Ayleids" were that arrived in Tamriel before Topal the Pilot, and why Topal did not find or record them in his writings.

    Wild Theory Time:

    The only way it could be reasonably resolved would be if a group of elves were banished during the Dawn Era from Aldmeri, that were separate from the later Ayleids that reached Tamriel in the Middle Merethic. Banished so as to explain why they were not previously recorded. These banished-elves may have shared some similarities with the true-Ayleids so as to explain why their ruins would appear the same (when it really comes to ZOS lazily using Ayleid ruins in all "old elven stuff" uses). They may also have done something worthy of being banished, something taboo to society, that would have also earned them the term "pariah". Then, when Topal explored the Iliac Bay, he did indeed meet these elves. They were the "cannibal orcs" recorded, which in Aldmeris would have been the term "Orsimer". Different than the later Aldmer-to-Orsimer followers of Trinimac-to-Malacath, these "orsimer" would have still been "elves" technically, though banished for their wretched practice of cannibalism. It would have been these pariahs then, who built Enduum. Long after they were dead, their ruins would then be given the term "Ayleid" since no record of them would have existed beyond the stray "orc" of Topal and their buildings bore similarity to those in Cyrodiil—those of the true-Ayleids—the ruins were attributed to the Ayleids.

    So, in order for the Dawn Era date to be correct, a group of mer practicing cannibalism and daedra worship would have had to be banished from Aldmeri society in the Dawn Era. These pariah-folk ("Orsimer" in Aldmeris) were the ones that Topal encountered and the ones who built Enduum some time after arriving in Tamriel. And, due to similar influences, their architectural styling resembled that of Ayleids, later scholars attributed those ruins to the Ayleids.

    But, all this is a stretch that could be much simpler fixed by correcting the false dating of Enduum from the Dawn Era to the proper Merethic. It wouldn't fix the over-abundance of Ayleid ruins instead of Direnni ruins problem in ESO's High Rock, but it would at least fix one problem.
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