Suggestions for a S&B pvp stam/hybrid DK?

dazee · September 2021

I'm looking for general suggestions for a stamdk pvp build using sword and board and 2h or sword and board and dual wield, or even sword board and bow, whatever has the coolest options to me really, and I dont know yet.

Any experienced pvpers want to give me some tips to such builds?

geonsocal · September 2021

will you be pvping mostly in battlegrounds, imperial city or cyrodiil?

dazee · September 2021

Probably cyrodil, it depends on how active it is at the times I play. I'm not against BG but prefer a good run with a casual group in cyro or impcity.

danthemann5 · September 2021

Head: Bloodspawn - Heavy - Impen - Max health
Shoulders: Bloodspawn - Heavy - Impen - Max health
Chest: Daedric Trickery - Heavy - Reinforced - Max health
Belt: Witch-Knight - Medium - Impen - Max health
Hands: Witch-Knight - Medium - Impen - Max health
Legs: Daedric Trickery - Heavy - Impen - Max health
Feet: Daedric Trickery - Heavy - Impen - Max health
Neck: Witch-Knight - Infused - Weapon damage
Ring: Witch-Knight - Infused - Weapon damage
Ring: Witch-Knight - Infused - Weapon damage
Front Bar: Daedric Trickery - Maul - Sharpened - Weapon damage
Back Bar: Daedric Trickery - 1H - Defending - double dot poison
Back Bar: Daedric Trickery - Shield - Sturdy - Max stamina

Front Bar: Dizzying Swing, Executioner, Noxious Breath, Venomous Claw, Rally, Take Flight
Back Bar: Cauterize, Resolving Vigor, Fragmented Shield, Race Against Time, Hardened Armor, Spell Wall

Race: Imperial (or Nord, or whatever really)
Mundus: Serpent (stam recovery)
Food: Dubious Camoran Throne
Tri-Stat potions

You can swap out the front bar for a sharpened Vateshran maul if you have one and/or want to use one.
You can run pretty much any damage set in place of Witch-Knight.
You can run pretty much any heavy set in place of Daedric Trickery. Pariah is popular too or the new Hrothgar's Chill.

If you run in no-CP, you'll probably want to swap one or more of the jewelry glyphs to stam recovery.

Do keep in mind though, build is maybe 30% of PvP. Skill and experience is the other 70%.

dazee · September 2021

Yeah I know, any ideas for a build using dual wield instead of a 2h?

danthemann5 · September 2021

In my experience as a stam DK, you're kind of forced into using 2H for Rally. This is for 3 reasons. First is the burst heal, second is the major brutality, and third, minor endurance is a large component of your stam recovery. DK has historically struggled with resource management, so any help we can get is important. Also, Executioner is the best execute in my humble opinion, although I'm sure there are plenty of people who will argue that Spin-to-Win is superior. It's a matter of opinion. If you want to use DW, a better option would be 2H and DW. However, DK really shines with 2H and S/B; the Iron Skin passive in Draconic Power increases damage blocked by 10%.

For a 2H/DW build, I would defer to someone who has more experience playing that style successfully. I would imagine the sets would stay relatively similar, but the bar setup would probably change significantly.

dazee · September 2021

DK has major brutality in its class buffs, a group one no less. Minor endurance might be tougher to replace not so experienced with DK. Spin to Win is decent, and possibly better in an open pvp environment I can see that argument at least.

danthemann5 · September 2021

Unfortunately, Molten Weapons comes with some significant disadvantages. First is the cost at 4320 Magicka. As a stam DK, we already have a very limited mag pool. We need that mag for Fragmented Shield, Cauterize, and RAT. Adding another very large mag cost to the mix stresses the already limited resource beyond what is practical. Further, the high mag cost skill only does one thing: Major Brutality. Rally is a stam recovery buff, Major Brutality, and a burst heal (which stam DK otherwise wouldn't have). Molten Weapons is a far less efficient skill to use for a stam DK than Rally. You'd have to replace the burst heal with Green Dragon Blood, which is less effective as a burst heal, but would give stam recovery. The problem again is GDB has a high mag cost. You'd essentially have to replace one stam skill with two high cost mag skills for similar results, which for the aforementioned reason is undesirable for a stam DK. Then comes the question of what other skills to give up in order to run Molten and GDB.

The reality for stam DK is that in order to make the most of the class, we're essentially locked into running 2H + something. This isn't an issue for mag DK, but you asked about stam DK, so there it is.

With the exception of Warden, this is by and large the case for all stam classes. Warden gets Major Brutality from Bull Netch, but Plaguebreak makes running that dangerous, both to the Warden and anyone near him.

milllaurie · September 2021

danthemann5 wrote: »

Head: Bloodspawn - Heavy - Impen - Max health
Shoulders: Bloodspawn - Heavy - Impen - Max health
Chest: Daedric Trickery - Heavy - Reinforced - Max health
Belt: Witch-Knight - Medium - Impen - Max health
Hands: Witch-Knight - Medium - Impen - Max health
Legs: Daedric Trickery - Heavy - Impen - Max health
Feet: Daedric Trickery - Heavy - Impen - Max health
Neck: Witch-Knight - Infused - Weapon damage
Ring: Witch-Knight - Infused - Weapon damage
Ring: Witch-Knight - Infused - Weapon damage
Front Bar: Daedric Trickery - Maul - Sharpened - Weapon damage
Back Bar: Daedric Trickery - 1H - Defending - double dot poison
Back Bar: Daedric Trickery - Shield - Sturdy - Max stamina

Front Bar: Dizzying Swing, Executioner, Noxious Breath, Venomous Claw, Rally, Take Flight
Back Bar: Cauterize, Resolving Vigor, Fragmented Shield, Race Against Time, Hardened Armor, Spell Wall

Race: Imperial (or Nord, or whatever really)
Mundus: Serpent (stam recovery)
Food: Dubious Camoran Throne
Tri-Stat potions

You can swap out the front bar for a sharpened Vateshran maul if you have one and/or want to use one.
You can run pretty much any damage set in place of Witch-Knight.
You can run pretty much any heavy set in place of Daedric Trickery. Pariah is popular too or the new Hrothgar's Chill.

If you run in no-CP, you'll probably want to swap one or more of the jewelry glyphs to stam recovery.

Do keep in mind though, build is maybe 30% of PvP. Skill and experience is the other 70%.

That, only go for witch knight on front and daedric on back. Dk armor buff passive damage is enough to proc trickery.
That way tou can fit malacath/wild hunt/torc and 1 pc trainee for extra hp.

Urzigurumash · September 2021

I've been running Molten Armaments and GDB on StamDK every patch since 2015, with about 5k hours on the class. Not that I'm an example to be followed, but these skills work for some of us.

Efficiency is one consideration, fulfilment of the Akaviri Martial Tradition is another.

Some experience as a PvE Tank on DK probably goes a long way towards appreciating the benefits of MA and GDB in PvP.

danthemann5 · September 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

I've been running Molten Armaments and GDB on StamDK every patch since 2015, with about 5k hours on the class. Not that I'm an example to be followed, but these skills work for some of us.

Efficiency is one consideration, fulfilment of the Akaviri Martial Tradition is another.

Some experience as a PvE Tank on DK probably goes a long way towards appreciating the benefits of MA and GDB in PvP.

Certainly, it can be made to work, but I wouldn't recommend it to someone new to the class, as OP states. Replacing one low-cost stam ability with two high-cost mag abilities on a class with a limited mag pool and challenging sustain is less than optimal.

Of course, I provide my opinion based on my experience in response to the OP's request. Different people have different experience. OP should play whatever OP wants, and so should everyone else.

Urzigurumash · September 2021

danthemann5 wrote: »

Replacing one low-cost stam ability with two high-cost mag abilities on a class with a limited mag pool and challenging sustain is less than optimal.

Frag has the same cost as MA though, you need the EH passives one way or another. Bar space is the other issue. What do you get out of Frag+Rally over MA? More resource cost, more GCD cost, and another skill slot used - all for more HPS yes, but not more DPS, in fact, less DPS, if you use Volatile Armor and Heavy Attacks.

DK has the best sustain in the game - when you're blocking.

I play off meta, no doubt about it, but if you want to play StamDK and experiment with Hybrid-like ideas, absolutely use Molten Armaments and Flames of Oblivion, you get all 4 Major buffs out of 2 skills.

Why mess with anything Hybrid on DK in PvP? In my opinion:

Single target, old tradition: Whip and Executioner on the same build

AoE, in light of recent revision to skills: Carve and Burning Talons on the same build

Urzigurumash · September 2021

All that being said, absolutely @danthemann5 has a reliable guide there for starting on StamDK, but MA and FoO are indispensable for Hybrids, and still plenty useable on a pure Weapon Damage DK.

However you can keep 3x Damage Glyphs in No Champ, just swap out Dubious for Tripe Pocket. It's close to a wash on both damage and sustain versus keeping Dubious and putting on a Regen glyph.

I do play Orc however so some of my ideas here are probably best suited for Orcs, especially enjoying the delicious Tripe Pocket.

danthemann5 · September 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

danthemann5 wrote: »

Replacing one low-cost stam ability with two high-cost mag abilities on a class with a limited mag pool and challenging sustain is less than optimal.

...What do you get out of Frag+Rally over MA? ...

Major Mending on demand, which is a very potent saver of butts. One could argue that with DT, it's not necessary, but when I run DT, major mending is never up when I need it. RNG doesn't like me. Also, there are other sets to run other than DT.

Rally + Fragmented Shield costs 4050 mag and 3780 stam
GDB +MA costs 2 x 4320 mag = 8640 mag. That's half of a stam DK's mag pool.

Further, Rally isn't dependent on missing health as GDB is.

In a PvP scenario, staying alive is more important than DPS; you do 0 DPS if you're dead. If you're relying on your mag pool for your burst heal as a stam DK, you will drain it very quickly and become a zero-DPS corpse.

In general, PvP engagements are not decided by sustained DPS, but rather by timed burst, hence the importance of a burst heal, Major Mending on demand, and S/B for blocking.

Edited to add:

The OP asked about stam DK in PvP. The information and opinions I gave are from my experience playing stam DK almost exclusively in PvP. I did not address mag DK and hybrid DK for two reasons: It is not what the OP requested nor is it where my experience lies. Are there viable builds for both? Certainly, but that wasn't what was requested.

Urzigurumash · September 2021

Yeah I meant if you take out HPS, altogether disregard HPS, then Molten becomes a more efficient source of the Weapon Damage buffs then running both Frag and Rally, that's all my point was there. Ultimately the reason to run MA over Rally+Frag for Buffs is to also have Major Savagery Sorcery (fixed typo)

The thread title says Stam/Hybrid, which is the only reason I commented, I'm unusually experienced playing Hybid-like StamDK.

If you want good HPS and timed burst, play Necro, but good luck getting all 4 Major offense buffs.

danthemann5 · September 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Yeah I meant if you take out HPS, altogether disregard HPS, then Molten becomes a more efficient source of the Weapon Damage buffs then running both Frag and Rally, that's all my point was there. Ultimately the reason to run MA over Rally+Frag for Buffs is to also have Major Savagery.

The thread title says Stam/Hybrid, which is the only reason I commented, I'm unusually experienced playing Hybid-like StamDK.

If you want good HPS and timed burst, play Necro.

Your right, the title does say Stam/Hybrid. I carelessly disregarded that after reading the first post which mentions stam DK only. Mia Culpa.

In my experience, Cauterize + Rally + Vigor + Major Mending (when needed) provides enough healing in the vast majority of cases and doesn't run the mag pool dry. Take Flight is the best, most gratifying thing in ESO, and necro doesn't have it.

Urzigurumash · September 2021

danthemann5 wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Yeah I meant if you take out HPS, altogether disregard HPS, then Molten becomes a more efficient source of the Weapon Damage buffs then running both Frag and Rally, that's all my point was there. Ultimately the reason to run MA over Rally+Frag for Buffs is to also have Major Savagery.

The thread title says Stam/Hybrid, which is the only reason I commented, I'm unusually experienced playing Hybid-like StamDK.

If you want good HPS and timed burst, play Necro.

Your right, the title does say Stam/Hybrid. I carelessly disregarded that after reading the first post which mentions stam DK only. Mia Culpa.

In my experience, Cauterize + Rally + Vigor + Major Mending (when needed) provides enough healing in the vast majority of cases and doesn't run the mag pool dry. Take Flight is the best, most gratifying thing in ESO, and necro doesn't have it.

I don't disagree about the HPS, but again I play Orc. A bit more offensive and incautious than is optimal.

Of course I agree neither Dawny nor Onslaught are as rewarding as Leap (and Colossus too easy to avoid), hence I play DK more than Necro, but for timed burst it's tough to beat Blastbones+Dawny. Daedric Trickery is absolutely off the hook for HPS on Necro.

Anyhow I agree the build you outline is pretty well the meta for Solo StamDK, or close to it. Malacath is still worth the slot for me usually, especially if you sit on your S&B bar, since your DoTs are ticking out when you typically wouldn't have Savagery from FoO or Hunter, I think we all mostly run these on 2h bar.

EF321 · September 2021

I tried this brusier type build on stam DK, it is kinda so-so, but sometimes works:

Monster set: Bloodspawn / Balorgh / Enginge guardian
Frontbar: SnB Knight Errant, Also chest, legs and boots
Backbar: Seventh legion 2H, also Necklace, Ring, Belt
Mythic: Malach or Fete
As we get 1 free spot left, Trainee gloves.

As an alternative, you can go backbar Seventh legion 2h and 3 jewelry, body 5-piece knight errant, frontbar arena SnB of choice (masters or vate can work).

Absorb missile ability and snb ulti that gives free casts work best here, deep slash as AoE spammable, power slam as highest single target snb damage.

geonsocal · September 2021

not sure if you've finished your build...

I have 2 stam dks, one on each server...both are set up as SnB/Bow...the bow isn't really a very popular choice for a lot of folks, but, a stam dk doesn't really have a lot of ranged attacks available...bow is just so useful for a random solo potato roaming around cyrodiil - a ronin potato

sieges, wild melees outside of outposts - there's a lot of situations for players more solo focused to use a bow...heck, to be honest, bow crushes it in battlegrounds deathmatches too...

i'm not really sure what you mean about a hyrbid stam dk...hybrid would be like if you used a stave or something, or maybe a bunch of offensive mag dk skills...

i use igneous weapons (my stam dks don't heavy attack much), hardened armor, and green dragon blood - no issues with mag sustain...if i need to, i just pop a tri-pot...

anyways, i got one dressed in: sellextrix (it knocks people down

), plague doctor and eternal vigor, he's hard to kill...the other in velidreth, seventh legion and swamp raider, he's able to apply more pressure...both wear 5 heavy/2 medium...