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It would be nice if there was a "Passive Mode" in Cyrodiil
MTibbs89
✭✭✭
Little nervous posting this given the potential backlash (I have severe social anxiety so please be gentle), but here goes. It would be nice for PvE players to be able to go to Cyrodiil to collect Skyshards and complete daily quests in peace. Because, believe it or not, there is almost always at least one golded-out no-lifer hanging around towns and actively trying to keep people, namely PvEers, from completing quests. I rarely enter Cyrodiil but nearly every time I do, I encounter them. Having something like a "passive mode", or neutral mode, where you can neither attack nor be attacked by other players would be nice. Here's how I think it could work.
Passive Mode
When entering Cyrodiil, you can select a Neutral party which, like the alliances, has its own player limit-- this is to avoid PvEers taking up space on a PvPers alliance and in any way impacting their population/bonuses/rewards/etc. You would enter either on neutral ground in the middle of the map near the Imperial City or in your toon's default alliance base. You are indicated to other players with a big white flag over your head instead of your usual alliance flag/colors. Optionally, your name is not displayed to avoid targeted harassment via whispers; obviously this would not stop people from following you around or emoting at you if they desired but it would limit trolling somewhat. Once you enter a campaign in this mode you can't change back to normal PvP mode for, say, 1-3 hours without paying some AP and, in order to switch, just like switching campaigns, you have to leave Cyrodiil via Wayshrine and re-enter the campaign as normal. This would avoid opportunistic behavior like turning off Passive Mode to gank other players or help capture keeps or resources for your home team and then switching back or otherwise engaging in potentially obnoxious behavior.
Quick rundown:
While in Passive Mode, you CAN:
-Collect Skyshards and lore books
-Complete daily quests in Cropsford, Vlastarus, etc. (The only way to gain AP in this mode. Some may say PvEers shouldn't be able to earn any, but as these quests only offer a small amount and you can only complete each of these quests once a day, it's already limited enough that it shouldn't hurt anything to still be able to obtain them this way)
-Complete Delves, Dolmens, and other PvE content.
-Go fishing
-Use crafting stations (Maybe limit to locations owned by your toon's default faction?)
-Purchase items from vendors
While in Passive Mode, you CANNOT:
-Freely switch modes
-Attack, heal, or in any way target other players or influence PvP interactions
-BE attacked, healed, or in any way interacted with by PvPers.
-Enter groups with PvP players
-Capture keeps, resources, or towns, or attack/interact with PvP Alliance-based guards at those locations
-Pick up/interact with Elder Scrolls or Volendrung
-Complete quests on alliance mission boards (MAYBE with the exception of scouting missions, as they don't impact or require PvP?).
-Place, fire, or otherwise interact with siege equipment or tents.
-Repair or damage keeps
-Collect Rewards for the Worthy
-Set as Home campaign to to appear on leaderboard (as unlikely as it is to do you any good with the PvP restrictions in place) or collect End of Campaign rewards
-Complete quests for Event Tickets during PvP events, thus encouraging actual PvP, which is what those events are for in the first place.
-Potential options
-Transistus Shrins would either be all are open for PvEers (so long as a keep is not under attack), only TS in keeps owned by your toon's default alliance are open, or no porting at all, though the latter would be obnoxious.
-Limit how long any player can be in passive mode per day.
Anyway, something like this has probably already been suggested somewhere at some point, probably dozens of times, but these were just my thoughts on the matter and how such a feature could work. It would allow PvEers to in some way experience Cyrodiil and collect some non-pvp related Cyrodiil achievements without the hassle of gankers and other trolling behaviors while also keeping them from influencing/negatively impacting PvP players or demanding an entire campaign server be dedicated to PvE.
Passive Mode
When entering Cyrodiil, you can select a Neutral party which, like the alliances, has its own player limit-- this is to avoid PvEers taking up space on a PvPers alliance and in any way impacting their population/bonuses/rewards/etc. You would enter either on neutral ground in the middle of the map near the Imperial City or in your toon's default alliance base. You are indicated to other players with a big white flag over your head instead of your usual alliance flag/colors. Optionally, your name is not displayed to avoid targeted harassment via whispers; obviously this would not stop people from following you around or emoting at you if they desired but it would limit trolling somewhat. Once you enter a campaign in this mode you can't change back to normal PvP mode for, say, 1-3 hours without paying some AP and, in order to switch, just like switching campaigns, you have to leave Cyrodiil via Wayshrine and re-enter the campaign as normal. This would avoid opportunistic behavior like turning off Passive Mode to gank other players or help capture keeps or resources for your home team and then switching back or otherwise engaging in potentially obnoxious behavior.
Quick rundown:
While in Passive Mode, you CAN:
-Collect Skyshards and lore books
-Complete daily quests in Cropsford, Vlastarus, etc. (The only way to gain AP in this mode. Some may say PvEers shouldn't be able to earn any, but as these quests only offer a small amount and you can only complete each of these quests once a day, it's already limited enough that it shouldn't hurt anything to still be able to obtain them this way)
-Complete Delves, Dolmens, and other PvE content.
-Go fishing
-Use crafting stations (Maybe limit to locations owned by your toon's default faction?)
-Purchase items from vendors
While in Passive Mode, you CANNOT:
-Freely switch modes
-Attack, heal, or in any way target other players or influence PvP interactions
-BE attacked, healed, or in any way interacted with by PvPers.
-Enter groups with PvP players
-Capture keeps, resources, or towns, or attack/interact with PvP Alliance-based guards at those locations
-Pick up/interact with Elder Scrolls or Volendrung
-Complete quests on alliance mission boards (MAYBE with the exception of scouting missions, as they don't impact or require PvP?).
-Place, fire, or otherwise interact with siege equipment or tents.
-Repair or damage keeps
-Collect Rewards for the Worthy
-Set as Home campaign to to appear on leaderboard (as unlikely as it is to do you any good with the PvP restrictions in place) or collect End of Campaign rewards
-Complete quests for Event Tickets during PvP events, thus encouraging actual PvP, which is what those events are for in the first place.
-Potential options
-Transistus Shrins would either be all are open for PvEers (so long as a keep is not under attack), only TS in keeps owned by your toon's default alliance are open, or no porting at all, though the latter would be obnoxious.
-Limit how long any player can be in passive mode per day.
Anyway, something like this has probably already been suggested somewhere at some point, probably dozens of times, but these were just my thoughts on the matter and how such a feature could work. It would allow PvEers to in some way experience Cyrodiil and collect some non-pvp related Cyrodiil achievements without the hassle of gankers and other trolling behaviors while also keeping them from influencing/negatively impacting PvP players or demanding an entire campaign server be dedicated to PvE.
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Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I believe there should be a passive mode sure.....
But
No skyshards and no lore books. As well as no way to collect AP from quests. AP from quests should just have a small gold reward in passive mode.
Those things come with the risk of PvP, and are the rewards from dealing with PvP.
But if you want a passive way to explore Cyrodiil and fish, knock yourself out.
Just don't expect the rewards without the risks.Edited by Kel on September 11, 2021 7:42PM26 -
FluffWit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Theres multiple problems with this that would directly effect pvp.
Outside of the Anniversary event and perhaps when you get one of those "Complete a quest in Bruma" endevour dailies almost no one hangs out in towns or camps skyshards looking to gank. It's boring and pointless.
I've done every quests dozens of times.... some of them over a hundred times. I've done pretty much all the skyshards at least 20 times. I very really even see another player doing these activities.7 -
HoneyBunBadgers✭✭✭One issue I can see is if someone that actively plays PvP goes into passive mode to spy on enemy keeps. For example lets say that a faction wants eyes on every enemy keep to track group movements and sorts they could have someone go into passive mode just to stand there and watch for troop movement and messaging their friends. Also, if you are in passive mode what is to stop potential spy's from following groups around telling their faction members their location. This would essentially make all movement on the map public and stealth attacks would be thrown out the window. Honestly with performance in Cyrodiil as it is, I don't think it would be possible to create this new passive mode and incorporate it without causing more problems and issues then it is worth. At the end of the day, if you want to go to Cyrodiil to quest/fish...etc. you are able to as is right now, nothing is stopping you. Yes you might die to a gank, that's just part of being in the alliance war, but the thing is you can always just respawn and try again and if they keep ganking you then go to an empty campaign and try there if that doesn't work then try another day or at a later time.17 -
MTibbs89✭✭✭Outside of the Anniversary event and perhaps when you get one of those "Complete a quest in Bruma" endevour dailies almost no one hangs out in towns or camps skyshards looking to gank. It's boring and pointless.
I've done every quests dozens of times.... some of them over a hundred times. I've done pretty much all the skyshards at least 20 times. I very really even see another player doing these activities.
Maybe I just have crap luck but every time I go to Cyro for sky shard hunting or quests I run into gankers. Specifically, Vlastarus and Bruma tend to have either one high level player or a group of players hanging around, not capturing the town but spicifically going out of their way to kill people trying to complete quests or pick up shards. Hence why I call them no-lifers because you can't have a lot to do with yourself if you literally feel like you have nothing better to do with your time than try to prevent other people from playing a game. Literally nothing stops PvPers from entering and enjoying PvE spaces, but a lot stands in the way of PvEers. I know and respect the fact that these no-lifers are the minority of PvP players but the fact is that they exist and when encountered can be a real pain to deal with.0 -
MTibbs89✭✭✭HoneyBunBadgers wrote: »One issue I can see is if someone that actively plays PvP goes into passive mode to spy on enemy keeps. For example lets say that a faction wants eyes on every enemy keep to track group movements and sorts they could have someone go into passive mode just to stand there and watch for troop movement and messaging their friends. Also, if you are in passive mode what is to stop potential spy's from following groups around telling their faction members their location. This would essentially make all movement on the map public and stealth attacks would be thrown out the window.
Maybe they could disable chat in passive mode. Problem solved.0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭not sure what type of build you have, but, there are options for being extremely stealthy...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place8 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This would effect the population in that campaign. It's already an issue. In addition, even if you wouldn't, others would abuse it to troll their own alliance, like running around and jumping where people are in stealth.Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!6 -
HoneyBunBadgers✭✭✭HoneyBunBadgers wrote: »One issue I can see is if someone that actively plays PvP goes into passive mode to spy on enemy keeps. For example lets say that a faction wants eyes on every enemy keep to track group movements and sorts they could have someone go into passive mode just to stand there and watch for troop movement and messaging their friends. Also, if you are in passive mode what is to stop potential spy's from following groups around telling their faction members their location. This would essentially make all movement on the map public and stealth attacks would be thrown out the window.
Maybe they could disable chat in passive mode. Problem solved.
There are still ways to message your faction members and guilds outside of the game, on PC we use Discord, many guilds use it instead of guild chat so theoretically lets say I am in passive mode I can wait outside of Aleswell and message my PvP guild on Discord that there are 30 DC heading east or south...etc.7 -
HoneyBunBadgers✭✭✭not sure what type of build you have, but, there are options for being extremely stealthy...
I am saying stealthy for groups, usually in Cyrodiil groups will ride to a keep and go into stealth to prepare for the siege, if someone in passive mode follows lets say a group of people around that want to assault the keep, they can no longer go into stealth and wait for reinforcements to arrive or circle around to hit the keep from a different side from stealth since someone in passive mode would be following them and see the second that a group tries to go into stealth immediately notifying their friends in the keep of enemy troop movements and numbers.0 -
djediSoul ShrivenOr just create a PVE Cyrodiil campaign.
Can’t attack other players, no AP (or something like 10%), everything else is the same.
A lot less work for the devs, less chance of bugs and exploits, and no spying.
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MTibbs89✭✭✭HoneyBunBadgers wrote: »HoneyBunBadgers wrote: »One issue I can see is if someone that actively plays PvP goes into passive mode to spy on enemy keeps. For example lets say that a faction wants eyes on every enemy keep to track group movements and sorts they could have someone go into passive mode just to stand there and watch for troop movement and messaging their friends. Also, if you are in passive mode what is to stop potential spy's from following groups around telling their faction members their location. This would essentially make all movement on the map public and stealth attacks would be thrown out the window.
Maybe they could disable chat in passive mode. Problem solved.
There are still ways to message your faction members and guilds outside of the game, on PC we use Discord, many guilds use it instead of guild chat so theoretically lets say I am in passive mode I can wait outside of Aleswell and message my PvP guild on Discord that there are 30 DC heading east or south...etc.
Fair enough. I often forget Discord exists (as I mentioned, severe social anxiety so I tend to avoid such chat services. I had to wrestle with myself for like 20 minutes after writing the post to even make myself actually post it and when I did my pulse went through the roof. It's pathetic I know but not something I can help). I just have a strong desire in any given game to complete all of the content I can. I am a completionist. On the other hand I tend to be a casual gamer and mostly play single-player games because they're generally more my speed. ESO is the one exception because I just really love the setting and the lore and I enjoy the single-player content. I have even worked myself up to being able to (mostly) enjoy running dungeons and the occasional trial. Cyrodiil, on the other hand, is actively stressful for me. The completionist in me wants to experience and enjoy it. Hell, a big part of me wants to try to enjoy PvP but whenever I try it I do almost no damage and get killed in 1 or 2 hits and it's discouraging. I know I am not alone in that aspect of it.Edited by MTibbs89 on September 11, 2021 8:20PM0 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭That's a really odd predicament to be in. Severe social anxiety, yet a completionist in an MMO which by very nature generally requires interaction with others for at least parts of the game, and not just PvP.
1 option is to get with a group; probably a zerg even, to get everything in a map. Other option is to ignore the stuff in Cyrodiil. Not all content is for everyone11 -
Lady_Galadhiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I was stressed out myself once I wanted to collect all skyshards in Cyrodiil,back then I was avoiding pvp at all costs.
Trick is to go into the least populated campaign,in most cases the 3rd one and try to complete the delves and dolmens there.
For the skyshard one going into the most played one helps a lot as there faction gates get open and closed few times a day wich is what you have to wait for to get the 2 skyshards behind the enemy's gates.
I know it's still a bit risky but I don't think Zos plans to change Cyrodiil anytime soon or even implement a new passive campaign for non pvpers.Total ESO playtime: 8325 hours
ESO plus status: Cancelled
ESO currently uninstalled.5 -
If i am doing skyshards/quest runs i tend to do in a quiet campaign and usually with a guild, which i realise is not something the OP is looking for.
As someone who plays almost entirely in PVP zones i view everyone as hostile and kill or try to kill them accordingly, but with that said its sometimes very obvious if they are just a quester so if I run towards them and they make no attempt at buffing or attacking then I would tend to just shadow them for a moment to make sure then leave them alone in my main campaign. I would argue that doesnt happen often in Ravenwatch though, its too busy and probably not a good place to for questing. If its a delve then I never attack an enemy unless they engage me, just no point.
I would recommend joining a decent guild that has organised runs to cyrodil for quests/shards. You may get attacked, but as a group you may have some safety in numbers. If you do want to go it alone there are some builds available online for being very tanky and generally make yourself a nuisance to kill.1 -
MTibbs89✭✭✭Thanks for the advice. And sorry I came on here acting like I had all the answers for a way it "wouldn't impact PVPers". I genuinely didn't see how it could be an issue regarding spying because I forgot about out of game chat services. I guess I also just assumed because spies already exist in the form of stealth players, it wouldn't be an issue, but then stealth players can somewhat easily be caught and very easily killed because they tend to be more squishy. Not being able to kill the spies would pose a problem. I didn't fully think it through. Anyway, again, to the people who gave me advice on PvP, thanks.Edited by MTibbs89 on September 11, 2021 10:05PM4
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Indigogo✭✭✭✭✭Greyhost already gets pop locked by passive players sitting at wayshrines, we don't need more.4 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It would have to be on a separate set aside campaign, other wise you could end up with Cyrodiil filled with PVE players for hours on end not a bad thing in of itself but the population caps in Cyrodiil which have kept being reduced over the years and the long queue's to get in make it a bad idea to have on active PVP campaigns.2 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like I appreciate people want to avoid PvP at all cost, I GET IT, but Cyrodiil IS a PvP zone and you have to respect that if you want what's there you gotta risk it. That said, if you go in on a quiet campaign not during MYM or any event for the area (aka when most PvErs seem to remember Cyrodiil and the Imperial City exist - which is honestly, the main problem here) you will have zero issue 100%-ing the area. I know, I have done it myself back when I hated PvP.
I have also done the skyshards in there on two different toons and it's not hard to do and avoid being PvP'd. It's genuinely not hard. This was also done when I hated PvP like burning.
That said, for the things you think you should be able to do:
"-Collect Skyshards and lore books"
Absolutely not on skyshards, PvP is part of the risk - lorebooks not such a big deal because I am almost certain all lore books in Cyro can be found elsewhere??? But on skyshards, this completely ignores the 4 skyshards behind the scroll gates for the two other alliances, so what are you doing to do? Just stroll through the closed gates? You get to interact with the alliance guards at LITERALLY a rival alliance's last line of defence because they're not on a keep or resource? Even if you could fight them, the gate's not open anyway unless the right keeps have been captured.
Nope, you gotta do it like everyone else does it - the normal "when one alliance has taken the keeps and the scroll gates are open" way (you do not have to be of the alliance who took the keeps to get through the gate, btw) or the "have a toon for each alliance, do each alliance's skyshards, buy it on the rest of your toons" way. Or you could alliance hop on the one toon but it's probably cheaper to have 3 different toons if you went that route lmao
"-Complete daily quests in Cropsford, Vlastarus, etc. (The only way to gain AP in this mode. Some may say PvEers shouldn't be able to earn any, but as these quests only offer a small amount and you can only complete each of these quests once a day, it's already limited enough that it shouldn't hurt anything to still be able to obtain them this way)"
No, you should not be able to earn AP if you're not in a PvP environment outside of login rewards. You want AP, you wait for the login reward or you PvP. AP is PvP's currency. You should not be able to complete quests without any issue from PvP players OR difference alliance guards in towns your alliance doesn't own. If your alliance owns it, sure, but that would probably be too hard to manage because the moment someone started flipping the flags what happens?
"-Complete Delves, Dolmens, and other PvE content."
Non-flippable town quests, sure. Delves, whatever, they're separate instances anyway. Dolmens are usually not a big deal either way so whatever.
"-Go fishing"
Tbh, this is not hard even in PvP, even when your toon was a blue and the only inexplicable "ocean" fishing spots in a landlocked region are right by yellow's front door. Also if you stealth when you cast, you remain in stealth when you fish. The more you know! I don't care either way, I got MA on my main.
"-Use crafting stations (Maybe limit to locations owned by your toon's default faction?)"
Only if your faction has flipped the town in which case just go in on PvP anyway because you're "safe" inside the crafting area.
"-Purchase items from vendors"
DEFINITELY NOT, if you're talking about the town vendors as PvP is absolutely a part of the risk for this. If you want that gear, you have to flip towns and be in PvP. Base vendors it literally doesn't matter because you don't find other alliance members in your base.
But seriously, as I said in the beginning, the main problem here is that PvErs only seem to remember that Cyro and IC exist when there is an event on, which is why you would getting farmed at quest turn in points, etc. Practically no PvPer is going to be hanging around a quest turn in point outside of an event on the extremely vague off chance that some poor PvEr is going to turn up to turn a quest in. They're going to be on resources and keeps, gates and bridges where any actual PvP action is.
Edited by renne on September 11, 2021 11:10PM13 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've got four Master Fishers. Starting on some more. I've got two of the crafting areas' stations - I just jump into a low pop campaign to see who's got what, and if it's a day with a "repair" endeavor, that's just gravy. The one station I don't have is AD - but I'll get it eventually. Skyshards and lorebooks I don't really care about....2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Contrary to popular belief the people "camping" towns are doing it because they're strategic resources that award points, act as spawn points, and give quests that drop PvP gear and ingredients for the War Tortes. It never passes through my mind when I see an enemy player in such locations that they are there for the quests unless it's Corrol or Cheydinhal. In those two locations I'll typically stay my hand unless they attack me first then I'll blast them back to the stone age without mercy.
I know some of y'all want a PvE Cyrodiil, but if my one RPer friend who ignores conflict, avoids PvP, and is more interested in fishing was able to complete all the PvE and fishing based quests and achievements so can you. Get invisibility potions, equip sneaking sets, stay off the lines in-between keeps, and be patient when turning in quests and you'll be fine. You don't need to be a devastating PvPer to do things in Cyrodiil, and the skyshards behind the gates take time. If your faction is making a scroll push ride the Zerg and once you're past the gate go stealth and you should be fine.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK4 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP, if you are on PC-NA and would like company, I have characters of every faction that still need to complete the achievements in Cyrodiil.
Most of them are not set up for PvP, and I'm not great at it to begin with, but I know my way around the delves and such and if we get attacked, we'll die together!The Moot Councillor5 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Two Objections, practical and philosophical.
Practical: Cyrodiil has a limited population cap. Right now, everyone who queues up for the campaign is a valid enemy/ally who is participating in a PvPvE zone. By adding a "Passive Mode", you would have players taking population slots from their Alliance without participating in PvPvE on any level.
Philosophical: Cyrodiil is a PvPvE zone. The items and activities you list are not PVE items and activities in Cyrodiil. They are inherently designed to be PvPvE items and obtained with the risk of PVP.
When you ask for those items without the risk of PvP happening in a PvPvE environment, you are asking to NOT play ESO as designed and intended, but still get the rewards anyway.
Examples:- Skyshards - skyshards take you all over the map deep into enemy territory, past PVP objectives, and through numerous choke points. 4 of the skyshards are behind enemy gates, each of which requires your Alliance to capture and defend at least two keeps, then invade the home gate of the enemy Alliance so that you can reach the skyshard. That's a lot of PVP.
- Town Quests - Cropsford, Vlastarus, and Bruma are all capturable PVP objectives. They have flags that show which Alliance owns the town for score points and as a transit location. Chorrol and Cheydinhal do not have flags, but are along scroll running routes. Additionally, since Cyrodiil is a PvPvE zone, all those quests were designed with the threat of PVP in mind.
- Delves grant a PVP-oriented buff when you kill a Delve boss - Blessing of War. This AP buff is pretty important for Emperorship runs, so it's not uncommon to see PVPers going into delves to kill the boss.
- Dolmens have a chance to drop Coldfire siege weapons, one of the most potent types of siege weapon damage against players. So again, it's not uncommon to see PVPers doing a dolmen for a chance at a PVP-oriented reward.
- Fishing - the different fishing areas are scattered across the map to draw players through areas of conflict. Take a look at the map of Ocean fish in Cyrodiil, and note the proximity to the AD back gate or an EP keep. That's intentional - fishing is neither designed nor intended as a safe activity in a war zone.
So with all that in mind, I feel it's very apparent that the vast majority of the rewards you want come from PvPvE activities that were designed with the risk of PVP.
When players ask for the risk of PvP to be removed, they are no longer playing the activity as designed and intended.
And so they do not deserve the same rewards as the players who are playing the activity as designed and intended.
"Passive mode" players should not earn the same rewards, skyshards, or achievements as the players who play PvPvE Cyrodiil properly.Edited by VaranisArano on September 12, 2021 12:02AM13 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1. The suggestion would hamper performance in the server by increasing the number of players as it is described.
2. I am fairly new here but it seems rather evident Zenimax intended for players to experience PvP or lose out on some useful skills and skill points. As such I think Zenimax should stick with their vision. Players can choose a rather empty campaign to reduce the chance of PvP or they can do without.
At the end of the day, it is a choice that is no different than learning to play well enough to clear the newest trials on vet HM to get those rewards. These are choices we all make to do or not to do.4 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭Little nervous posting this given the potential backlash (I have severe social anxiety so please be gentle), but here goes. It would be nice for PvE players to be able to go to Cyrodiil to collect Skyshards and complete daily quests in peace. Because, believe it or not, there is almost always at least one golded-out no-lifer hanging around towns and actively trying to keep people, namely PvEers, from completing quests. I rarely enter Cyrodiil but nearly every time I do, I encounter them. Having something like a "passive mode", or neutral mode, where you can neither attack nor be attacked by other players would be nice. Here's how I think it could work.
Passive Mode
When entering Cyrodiil, you can select a Neutral party which, like the alliances, has its own player limit-- this is to avoid PvEers taking up space on a PvPers alliance and in any way impacting their population/bonuses/rewards/etc. You would enter either on neutral ground in the middle of the map near the Imperial City or in your toon's default alliance base. You are indicated to other players with a big white flag over your head instead of your usual alliance flag/colors. Optionally, your name is not displayed to avoid targeted harassment via whispers; obviously this would not stop people from following you around or emoting at you if they desired but it would limit trolling somewhat. Once you enter a campaign in this mode you can't change back to normal PvP mode for, say, 1-3 hours without paying some AP and, in order to switch, just like switching campaigns, you have to leave Cyrodiil via Wayshrine and re-enter the campaign as normal. This would avoid opportunistic behavior like turning off Passive Mode to gank other players or help capture keeps or resources for your home team and then switching back or otherwise engaging in potentially obnoxious behavior.
Quick rundown:
While in Passive Mode, you CAN:
-Collect Skyshards and lore books
-Complete daily quests in Cropsford, Vlastarus, etc. (The only way to gain AP in this mode. Some may say PvEers shouldn't be able to earn any, but as these quests only offer a small amount and you can only complete each of these quests once a day, it's already limited enough that it shouldn't hurt anything to still be able to obtain them this way)
-Complete Delves, Dolmens, and other PvE content.
-Go fishing
-Use crafting stations (Maybe limit to locations owned by your toon's default faction?)
-Purchase items from vendors
While in Passive Mode, you CANNOT:
-Freely switch modes
-Attack, heal, or in any way target other players or influence PvP interactions
-BE attacked, healed, or in any way interacted with by PvPers.
-Enter groups with PvP players
-Capture keeps, resources, or towns, or attack/interact with PvP Alliance-based guards at those locations
-Pick up/interact with Elder Scrolls or Volendrung
-Complete quests on alliance mission boards (MAYBE with the exception of scouting missions, as they don't impact or require PvP?).
-Place, fire, or otherwise interact with siege equipment or tents.
-Repair or damage keeps
-Collect Rewards for the Worthy
-Set as Home campaign to to appear on leaderboard (as unlikely as it is to do you any good with the PvP restrictions in place) or collect End of Campaign rewards
-Complete quests for Event Tickets during PvP events, thus encouraging actual PvP, which is what those events are for in the first place.
-Potential options
-Transistus Shrins would either be all are open for PvEers (so long as a keep is not under attack), only TS in keeps owned by your toon's default alliance are open, or no porting at all, though the latter would be obnoxious.
-Limit how long any player can be in passive mode per day.
Anyway, something like this has probably already been suggested somewhere at some point, probably dozens of times, but these were just my thoughts on the matter and how such a feature could work. It would allow PvEers to in some way experience Cyrodiil and collect some non-pvp related Cyrodiil achievements without the hassle of gankers and other trolling behaviors while also keeping them from influencing/negatively impacting PvP players or demanding an entire campaign server be dedicated to PvE.
While others have ranted about this idea in the past, I like this and think it could work. Your proposal is thoughtful and well-appointed.
Although I haven't considered all of the pros and cons, this isn't terrible and would be the equivalent of say a representative of the Fighter's Guild visiting the towns in Cyrodiil. The Lore supports it and the concept itself on paper would not interfere with PvP. As far as how this would work realistically, I think it would take some time and testing and just a common sense approach to make this work. Of course, there could be problems as well.
One problem that you might have here is by creating a conflict of interest between people in Cyrodiil for events or non-PvP related reasons vs people there as intended for PvP, especially if they are there for PvP Events. Could these be reconciled, I think so but how far is ZOS willing to go to keep these two directions in check?
In order to make this neutral faction feasible they would probably need to cut numbers from each Alliance max population. If this does occur, its going to *** people off for reasons. Let's look at those reasons:
a) Fewer people can login to the server for Prime Time. This will make PvP slower although it could also help reduce faction stacking.
b) Even fewer people would be required for low-population bonus. This is a huge deal in certain circles and will def get people's attention.
c) PvP Guilds and Casuals must compete against Neutrals for Faction participation. This will result in a heavy Q and more often people having to wait to PvP.
d) Information Brokering or outright Spying/Stalking. If you're Neutral and the rules of the Alliance don't apply to you then this presents a barrier to PvP putting a stop to this behavior and creates a conflict of interest because the lines are blurred as far as who is really from where. Also, not being able to view a player's name is a bad idea, it will draw heat because ppl want to know who you are and what you've earned, if nothing else for your reputation.
e) Less Support for Emp runs. If the Max population is less than it currently is, that means if someone is on an Emp run their Guild or circle of friends may not be able to join them on the run because of reduced pop sizes.
End of the day, while I would like to approve this, I agree with most of your reasoning, I have to conclude that the current state of PvP in this game could never support this properly. Now perhaps In a better game... it could probably be done. However coming off PvP for awhile and what I know based on my experiences in there, I really think this is something that would cause lots of problems.
Although, I do remember going to Imperial City during the last event... there were literally 15 to 20 newer players getting meteor'd to death in the start area of the Arboretum. While I was there just for a lead, I took a moment to talk to them. Most of them said they were new to the game or otherwise could care less about PvP. They just wanted other things. It was kind of sad watching them all standing there getting butchered by DC like Wild Horses. I told them they need to learn to deal with the threats posed by other players and move undetected but none of them wanted to learn. I was eventually shot down by DC even though my lead was on the bosses body but I got up, stealthed my way back there and got my lead regardless of 'them'.
Edited by Nagastani on September 12, 2021 2:01AM2 -
faeeichenlaub✭✭✭✭War is hell."Azura give me strength, Let my voice change the world as long as I am in it."0 -
vivisectvib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would like to see a passive mode implemented like DCUO. You flag yourself as PVP, and are fair game. If you flag as passive, other players can't harm you (only enemies or NPCs from enemy factions). If you flag one way or the other there is a few min cooldown before the flag actually takes effect, that way folks cannot abuse it by quickly flagging back and forth during battles.1 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Little nervous posting this given the potential backlash (I have severe social anxiety so please be gentle), but here goes. It would be nice for PvE players to be able to go to Cyrodiil to collect Skyshards and complete daily quests in peace. Because, believe it or not, there is almost always at least one golded-out no-lifer hanging around towns and actively trying to keep people, namely PvEers, from completing quests. I rarely enter Cyrodiil but nearly every time I do, I encounter them. Having something like a "passive mode", or neutral mode, where you can neither attack nor be attacked by other players would be nice. Here's how I think it could work.
Passive Mode
When entering Cyrodiil, you can select a Neutral party which, like the alliances, has its own player limit-- this is to avoid PvEers taking up space on a PvPers alliance and in any way impacting their population/bonuses/rewards/etc. You would enter either on neutral ground in the middle of the map near the Imperial City or in your toon's default alliance base. You are indicated to other players with a big white flag over your head instead of your usual alliance flag/colors. Optionally, your name is not displayed to avoid targeted harassment via whispers; obviously this would not stop people from following you around or emoting at you if they desired but it would limit trolling somewhat. Once you enter a campaign in this mode you can't change back to normal PvP mode for, say, 1-3 hours without paying some AP and, in order to switch, just like switching campaigns, you have to leave Cyrodiil via Wayshrine and re-enter the campaign as normal. This would avoid opportunistic behavior like turning off Passive Mode to gank other players or help capture keeps or resources for your home team and then switching back or otherwise engaging in potentially obnoxious behavior.
Quick rundown:
While in Passive Mode, you CAN:
-Collect Skyshards and lore books
-Complete daily quests in Cropsford, Vlastarus, etc. (The only way to gain AP in this mode. Some may say PvEers shouldn't be able to earn any, but as these quests only offer a small amount and you can only complete each of these quests once a day, it's already limited enough that it shouldn't hurt anything to still be able to obtain them this way)
-Complete Delves, Dolmens, and other PvE content.
-Go fishing
-Use crafting stations (Maybe limit to locations owned by your toon's default faction?)
-Purchase items from vendors
While in Passive Mode, you CANNOT:
-Freely switch modes
-Attack, heal, or in any way target other players or influence PvP interactions
-BE attacked, healed, or in any way interacted with by PvPers.
-Enter groups with PvP players
-Capture keeps, resources, or towns, or attack/interact with PvP Alliance-based guards at those locations
-Pick up/interact with Elder Scrolls or Volendrung
-Complete quests on alliance mission boards (MAYBE with the exception of scouting missions, as they don't impact or require PvP?).
-Place, fire, or otherwise interact with siege equipment or tents.
-Repair or damage keeps
-Collect Rewards for the Worthy
-Set as Home campaign to to appear on leaderboard (as unlikely as it is to do you any good with the PvP restrictions in place) or collect End of Campaign rewards
-Complete quests for Event Tickets during PvP events, thus encouraging actual PvP, which is what those events are for in the first place.
-Potential options
-Transistus Shrins would either be all are open for PvEers (so long as a keep is not under attack), only TS in keeps owned by your toon's default alliance are open, or no porting at all, though the latter would be obnoxious.
-Limit how long any player can be in passive mode per day.
Anyway, something like this has probably already been suggested somewhere at some point, probably dozens of times, but these were just my thoughts on the matter and how such a feature could work. It would allow PvEers to in some way experience Cyrodiil and collect some non-pvp related Cyrodiil achievements without the hassle of gankers and other trolling behaviors while also keeping them from influencing/negatively impacting PvP players or demanding an entire campaign server be dedicated to PvE.
There is, it's called don't que up for pvp.0 -
MrBrownstone✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love how people are using the term "risk of PvP" like there is any risk at all. Is there full loot PvP and I'm not aware? Where is the risk of your character getting killed by another player, i'd say PvE is more risky since your armor degrades on death and it costs you a soul gem.
Now if you're talking about the psychological impact of it, well maybe you shouldn't be playing video games that involve death...3 -
Katheriah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »That's a really odd predicament to be in. Severe social anxiety, yet a completionist in an MMO which by very nature generally requires interaction with others for at least parts of the game, and not just PvP.
1 option is to get with a group; probably a zerg even, to get everything in a map. Other option is to ignore the stuff in Cyrodiil. Not all content is for everyone
I agree. Cyro is a PvP zone. You cannot expect to finish all content, without wanting to play all content.
Just go into Cyro either super tanky/stealthy/speedy and just rinse and repeat. If you want easy just play Skyrim.4