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ZOS: Please lower Dark Convergence CD to match Rush of Agony
WhyMustItBe
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These two sets are effectively identical in every other meaningful way:
Both have one line of Offensive Penetration.
Both have one line of Weapon & Spell damage.
Both have one generic stat line (Magicka for DC, Stamina regen for RoA).
The 5-piece bonus is basically the same: It pulls in enemies to your location within a 10 meters. DC procs off an AOE on the ground, RoA procs off a teleport, Blink, Charge, Leap, or Pull ability doing damage. They both do damage after the initial pull in their respective stat type (stamina or magicka).
As you can see, these sets are basically identical.
So my question is, why does Dark Convergence have almost TWICE the cooldown time as Rush of Agony (15 seconds vs 8 seconds)? NOTE: The tooltip image is from the PTS, on live DC is 15 seconds not 20. Still, almost twice the cooldown time as the basically identical stamina version Rush of Agony.
I play magicka characters more than stamina, and I definitely prefer the visual color and effect of Dark Convergence, especially on my tank as it goes well with Lord Warden's effect and my general character theme. The red burst effect totally stands out against my character's theme/build as a magicka character.
Logically then since they are basically the exact same set I would just choose the one that looks better. But I can't, because Dark Convergence has mysteriously TWICE the cooldown, and 15 seconds is a REALLY long time for a tank utility.
I realize neither of these are technically tank sets but still, the question of the only real difference between the magicka and stamina being double the cooldown really should be reconsidered.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
Both have one line of Offensive Penetration.
Both have one line of Weapon & Spell damage.
Both have one generic stat line (Magicka for DC, Stamina regen for RoA).
The 5-piece bonus is basically the same: It pulls in enemies to your location within a 10 meters. DC procs off an AOE on the ground, RoA procs off a teleport, Blink, Charge, Leap, or Pull ability doing damage. They both do damage after the initial pull in their respective stat type (stamina or magicka).
As you can see, these sets are basically identical.
So my question is, why does Dark Convergence have almost TWICE the cooldown time as Rush of Agony (15 seconds vs 8 seconds)? NOTE: The tooltip image is from the PTS, on live DC is 15 seconds not 20. Still, almost twice the cooldown time as the basically identical stamina version Rush of Agony.
I play magicka characters more than stamina, and I definitely prefer the visual color and effect of Dark Convergence, especially on my tank as it goes well with Lord Warden's effect and my general character theme. The red burst effect totally stands out against my character's theme/build as a magicka character.
Logically then since they are basically the exact same set I would just choose the one that looks better. But I can't, because Dark Convergence has mysteriously TWICE the cooldown, and 15 seconds is a REALLY long time for a tank utility.
I realize neither of these are technically tank sets but still, the question of the only real difference between the magicka and stamina being double the cooldown really should be reconsidered.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
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AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭Because dark convergence is a stronger set, you wanna buff that set? Thats absurd24
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RevJJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭They are not basically the same. Rush of Agony pulls and does damage, Dark Convergence snares, pulls, stuns and does damage twice. DC is already overpowered and broken (the pull range is way larger than it should be). Plenty of players using it in Cyrodiil get 70-80% of their damage done simply from using that set.
DC does not need to be buffed, it needs to be fixed or deleted.18 -
six2fall✭✭✭✭Lol lower cooldown on dark convergence. People are already flipping out thinking it's op so this would not be a good move0 -
WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭It must be doing way more damage than this tooltip indicates in-game then. Not surprised, this tooltip was obviously from a PTS version of the set.
That is too bad, I really don't like the visual effect from Rush of Agony on a magicka character. Oh well, guess I'll have to wait for them to add a pull set that is actually meant for tanks, preferably magicka-based.0 -
theCampeR_✭✭✭This thread is a perfect example why people shouldn't balance things just by looking at numbers or an excel sheet. *cough* Mr. lead pvp designer *cough*Edited by theCampeR_ on September 9, 2021 8:01AM7 -
RevJJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »It must be doing way more damage than this tooltip indicates in-game then. Not surprised, this tooltip was obviously from a PTS version of the set.
That is too bad, I really don't like the visual effect from Rush of Agony on a magicka character. Oh well, guess I'll have to wait for them to add a pull set that is actually meant for tanks, preferably magicka-based.
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WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well in fairness, if you look at the old tooltip the damage between the two looked pretty similar. ~1800 base damage on Rush of Agony, or ~1100 on Dark Convergence, plus another ~2200 to any in a tiny 3 meter area.
In-game however, the current numbers are considerably higher:
Even on live however, the damage of the initial hit is very similar, and the 2nd hit on Dark Convergence only hits things within 3 meters which will rarely happen. So technically it is better yes, but it doesn't quite seem like TWICE the cooldown better. I am also not counting a 4 second snare of 60% as it is nice but not really a game changer either.
I guess I should be happy they lowered the cooldown from 20 seconds to 15 at least.
Edited by WhyMustItBe on September 9, 2021 9:03AM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »
Even on live however, the damage of the initial hit is very similar, and the 2nd hit on Dark Convergence only hits things within 3 meters which will rarely happen. So technically it is better yes, but it doesn't quite seem like TWICE the cooldown better. I am also not counting a 4 second snare of 60% as it is nice but not really a game changer either.
Did you read the important part of how much more damage the second hit does? That the second proc can be increased by 10% for each target?
And do you realize what that means in total damage output inside a burst window?2 -
zelaminator✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »Well in fairness, if you look at the old tooltip the damage between the two looked pretty similar. ~1800 base damage on Rush of Agony, or ~1100 on Dark Convergence, plus another ~2200 to any in a tiny 3 meter area.
In-game however, the current numbers are considerably higher:
Even on live however, the damage of the initial hit is very similar, and the 2nd hit on Dark Convergence only hits things within 3 meters which will rarely happen. So technically it is better yes, but it doesn't quite seem like TWICE the cooldown better. I am also not counting a 4 second snare of 60% as it is nice but not really a game changer either.
I guess I should be happy they lowered the cooldown from 20 seconds to 15 at least.
Without being anything near as savy as most people here, if say that you can't just leave out part of the effects when doing comparisons, just because you feel like it4 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »So my question is, why does Dark Convergence have almost TWICE the cooldown time as Rush of Agony (15 seconds vs 8 seconds)?
Because if they shared the same cooldown, they wouldn't work synergistically with each other, proccing one after the other and pulling people all over the map every few seconds! You clearly haven't tried stacking these together, have you?
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zelaminator✭✭✭✭✭
✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »So my question is, why does Dark Convergence have almost TWICE the cooldown time as Rush of Agony (15 seconds vs 8 seconds)?
Because if they shared the same cooldown, they wouldn't work synergistically with each other, proccing one after the other and pulling people all over the map every few seconds! You clearly haven't tried stacking these together, have you?
I've considered that many times.. you sound like you've tried it.. how does it play out.?0 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭zelaminator wrote: »WhyMustItBe wrote: »So my question is, why does Dark Convergence have almost TWICE the cooldown time as Rush of Agony (15 seconds vs 8 seconds)?
Because if they shared the same cooldown, they wouldn't work synergistically with each other, proccing one after the other and pulling people all over the map every few seconds! You clearly haven't tried stacking these together, have you?
I've considered that many times.. you sound like you've tried it.. how does it play out.?
I haven't, to be honest. But I'm getting hit with it regularly in Cyrodiil..... so I can tell you that it's an effective combination.
Rush of Agony isn't as common in Cyrodiil, because of having to run dungeons to get it vs. simply playing PvP and having the new sets (including Dark Convergence) fall into your lap (or purchasing them from the now-glutted market). But there are a few who are running both sets.
Let's just say that you won't be disappointed in the results if you choose to go that route. There are a lot of things that ZOS failed to consider before unleashing this new proc meta on the AvAvA scene. But the players have already found ways to take advantage of the overlooked potential scenarios, and will certainly make the most of it until things are changed.
Edited by Jaraal on September 9, 2021 10:26AM0 -
zelaminator✭✭✭✭✭
✭zelaminator wrote: »WhyMustItBe wrote: »So my question is, why does Dark Convergence have almost TWICE the cooldown time as Rush of Agony (15 seconds vs 8 seconds)?
Because if they shared the same cooldown, they wouldn't work synergistically with each other, proccing one after the other and pulling people all over the map every few seconds! You clearly haven't tried stacking these together, have you?
I've considered that many times.. you sound like you've tried it.. how does it play out.?
I haven't, to be honest. But I'm getting hit with it regularly in Cyrodiil..... so I can tell you that it's an effective combination.
Rush of Agony isn't as common in Cyrodiil, because of having to run dungeons to get it vs. simply playing PvP and having the new sets (including Dark Convergence) fall into your lap. But there are a few who are running both sets.
Let's just say that you won't be disappointed in the results if you choose to go that route.
I'm on Ravenwatch, so won't be in Cyrodiil I try it.. I was thinking PvE0 -
moo_2021✭✭✭✭✭[snip]
I think he didn't realize DC is mostly for pvp not pve.
[edited to remove quoted comment]Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on September 9, 2021 12:27PM3 -
CaptainVenom✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd say leave Dark Convergence like that. People are desperate for a nerf already... a lower cooldown would work only if damage gets lowered as well.🌈 Ride with Pride🌈
Magicka/Damage Sorcerer - PC - NA - DC0 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the pull on dark convergence and when the set get's changed I hope the pull is kept.0 -
WhyMustItBe✭✭✭✭✭
✭[snip]
Not at all. I just found the set on guild stores and assumed it was a weird magicka DPS-tank option or cool off-meta DPS set with a fun mechanic. I didn't realize it was being abused in PVP as some sort of OP meta, as I don't really PVP much anymore.
Although, having heard numerous people claiming it is OP, I can see how it might seem that way. XD
[edited to remove quoted content]Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on September 9, 2021 12:28PM0 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
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Just for reference, so far as off-meta sets go for PvE, this is an okay-ish set to go for. Generally if you want a "pull" set most would go with Vateshran one-hand and shield because you can still proc another set on the back bar without losing a full five piece set. Wouldn't bother in trials as most things can't be pulled or the smaller things that can are outside the pull radius (e.g. Sunspire), but this does decent DPS on a tank in trash (base pop) fights in regular and DLC dungeons and has a larger radius than Vateshran. Better if you're doing big pulls, though, which not all dungeons allow for.WhyMustItBe wrote: »Not at all. I just found the set on guild stores and assumed it was a weird magicka DPS-tank option or cool off-meta DPS set with a fun mechanic. I didn't realize it was being abused in PVP as some sort of OP meta, as I don't really PVP much anymore.
Although, having heard numerous people claiming it is OP, I can see how it might seem that way. XD@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics1 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »I didn't realize it was being abused in PVP as some sort of OP meta, as I don't really PVP much anymore.
Although, having heard numerous people claiming it is OP, I can see how it might seem that way. XD
Ah, I wondered if you were speaking from a PvE perspective. Your OP makes a lot more sense now. Yeah, it seems to be destroying PvP, which is the problem.
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Knockmaker✭✭✭✭Not gonna make any comments on whether Dark Convergence or Hrothgar are OP, but I can definitely tell that ball groups almost entirely disappeared or their lifespan shortened significantly ever since these sets came out.
That is all I have to say regarding these sets.0 -
AuraStorm43✭✭✭✭✭Knockmaker wrote: »Not gonna make any comments on whether Dark Convergence or Hrothgar are OP, but I can definitely tell that ball groups almost entirely disappeared or their lifespan shortened significantly ever since these sets came out.
That is all I have to say regarding these sets.
Hrothgar doesn’t affect ball groups at all unless they stack hard
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dinokstrunz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Knockmaker wrote: »Not gonna make any comments on whether Dark Convergence or Hrothgar are OP, but I can definitely tell that ball groups almost entirely disappeared or their lifespan shortened significantly ever since these sets came out.
That is all I have to say regarding these sets.
They've gone nowhere because as per usual it's ballgroups who end up using these sets. They will adjusted eventually because even though the set was designed to counter large stacks of players it's in places where ballgroups aren't playing where the effects are felt the best. Just look at Battlegrounds you can't go a few minutes without seeing these sets dominating the map.
As much as I want counters to ballgroups this is without a doubt the most incorrect way & the most laziest to do it. The best joke is it unironically affects ball groups the least.Edited by dinokstrunz on September 9, 2021 7:56PM3 -
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »[snip]
Not at all. I just found the set on guild stores and assumed it was a weird magicka DPS-tank option or cool off-meta DPS set with a fun mechanic. I didn't realize it was being abused in PVP as some sort of OP meta, as I don't really PVP much anymore.
Although, having heard numerous people claiming it is OP, I can see how it might seem that way. XD
[edited to remove quoted content]
The problem is that these pull sets as they currently work are not following the "rules" ZOS has created for sieging and defending keeps. There are ways to activate these pulls from absurd ranges, which in turn pulls defenders off walls and roofs and attackers up onto them. It's one thing to have to defend your siege position with heals and shields, but it's a completely different story when you can be pulled off (and lose your lancer) in less than a second down onto the porch to get zerged down. People have stopped using oils, because being on the edge of the balcony, or even up on the third floor roof is just asking to be summoned down and killed.
The sets can be countered in field fights, where everybody is fighting on the same plane. But they are ruining the mechanics of siege, and that's not good for the health of the Cyrodiil experience. I've seen several people say that they won't be coming back until these issues are addressed.2 -
katanagirl1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I got pulled out of my siege ballista several times and instakilled with Dark Convergence today trying to defend.
Khajiit Stamblade main
Dark Elf Magsorc
Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
Orc Stamplar PVP
Breton Magsorc PVP
Dark Elf Necromancer
Dark Elf Magden
Khajiit Stamblade
Khajiit Stamina Arcanist
PS5 NA1 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Not going to lie, I kind of love that someone wants a broken, OP set buffed up the wazoo because *checks notes* they don't like the visuals on a different set.
GG OP. 0 -
Togal✭✭✭✭At least take away the stun, you already get pulled which forces you to sprint or roll dodge so you lose stamina, on top on that you get stunned so you have to break free and it really messes up your resources.0
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stefj68✭✭✭✭✭cooldown is way to long
for pve.... it should be 8 seconds max cooldown
or no cooldown for the pull in, but cooldown for the damage parts?
i feel this set gonna be nerfed like crazy on next update cause of being abuse in pvp
Edited by stefj68 on September 10, 2021 7:37AM0