Maintenance for the week of January 13:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 13
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 13
Mist form is over performing (Because it's bugged) (PvE)
Styxius
✭✭✭✭
I know @ZOS_RichLambert has made comments on stream about the RockGrove method the community is using was not intended. However, I wanted to bring to light just how overpowered Mistform is right now. Most new content, Kynes, RockGrove, and some older ones like vHoF and vAS most enemies and bosses can't hit you. Not taking reduced damage, just nothing, no-hit register. Kynes especially every single boss on Hardmode can not hit you in Mist Form. Frigid fog doesn't stun you, the bulwarks can knock you out but Vrol can't with his shield bash. It's insanely overpowered, Olm's in Asylum can't hit you in mist. In Sunspire's Lokke fight, the lightning beam during the flight phase just passes through you dealing no initial damage, it still leaves the AoE on HM, but does literally nothing on non-HM. Ice Atro's there can't hit you either with a Glacial fist or their AoE stomp. Just wanted to share this as I'm unsure if this is a known factor. Similar to how Stonetalker is giving no cap to stamina return making it give an uncapped stamina potential return as opposed to the mag side having the proper 2,240 cap.
Edited by Styxius on August 20, 2021 3:35PM 2
-
Artemiisia✭✭✭✭✭
✭guessing you got all the achievements from doing this, and now you want it gone so others has to struggle in another way
16 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sounds to me more like those encounters you listed need a rework than for Mistform itself to be changed.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK6 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If there were fewer guaranteed one-hit-kill mechanics forcing tanks to be dodgeroll machines, mistform cheese wouldn't even come up.
I'm for closing loopholes but let's also keep an eye on the encounter designs not being absurd.
P.S. I have no vampire tank. I have a vampire dps but rarely use it, not a fan of current vampire at all.Edited by Fennwitty on August 19, 2021 5:36PMPC NA5 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If there were fewer guaranteed one-hit-kill mechanics forcing tanks to be dodgeroll machines, mistform cheese wouldn't even come up.
I'm for closing loopholes but let's also keep an eye on the encounter designs not being absurd.
P.S. I have no vampire tank. I have a vampire dps but rarely use it, not a fan of current vampire at all.
I agree that tanks should generally able to block more and roll less. I do think this is more on mist form specifically than mechanics that, other than RG, most people have been playing without mist form just fine for years.
I do not like that most raid leads have told their DPS to turn back to vamp (I hate being a vamp), and mist has essentially become a shield 2.0.
Thankfully, we have so much health that we can all run parse food in vet trials (good job balancing that one, ZOS) so the extra skill cost isnt a huge issue. LOL
Oh and yes. Mist form is wildly OP.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on August 19, 2021 8:27PM1 -
vms11934✭✭✭Just leave it alone. Without Mist Form I don't think there is any use at all for Vampire (besides running around invis, which alone isn't worth the cost of being rank 4).
I made my vamp tank recently and I didn't use some popular build or anything (didn't even know it is popular). I came up with the ideas for the build myself. Unless it gets to a point where everyone has to be a vamp tank to succeed (which doesn't seem to be the case), just let it be. Nerfs just kill originality and end up with everyone basically being the same, if not the exact same.4 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭Just leave it alone. Without Mist Form I don't think there is any use at all for Vampire (besides running around invis, which alone isn't worth the cost of being rank 4).
I made my vamp tank recently and I didn't use some popular build or anything (didn't even know it is popular). I came up with the ideas for the build myself. Unless it gets to a point where everyone has to be a vamp tank to succeed (which doesn't seem to be the case), just let it be. Nerfs just kill originality and end up with everyone basically being the same, if not the exact same.
That’s the thing you do have to be vamp to get though one of the vRG hard modes. All the cool kids are doing it because they have to, not because they want to. The content is overturned and because people found this one workaround they are applying that same workaround to other content. If only there was a PTS where these things could be tested before they are released…3 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭I know @ZOS_RichLambert has made comments on stream about the RockGrove method the community is using was not intended. However, I wanted to bring to light just how overpowered Mistform is right now. Most new content, Kynes, RockGrove, and some older ones like vHoF and vAS most enemies and bosses can't hit you. Not taking reduced damage, just nothing, no-hit register. Kynes especially every single boss on Hardmode can not hit you in Mist Form. Frigid fog doesn't stun you, the bulwarks can knock you out but Vrol can't with his shield bash. It's insanely overpowered, Olm's in Asylum can't hit you in mist. In Sunspire's Lokke fight, the lightning beam during the flight phase just passes through you dealing no initial damage, it still leaves the AoE on HM, but does literally nothing on non-HM. Ice Atro's there can't hit you either with a Glacial fist or their AoE stomp. Just wanted to share this as I'm unsure if this is a known factor. Similar to how Stonetalker is giving no cap to stamina return making it give an uncapped stamina potential return as opposed to the mag side having the proper 2,240 cap.
You do understqnd that mist form reduce damage by 75% and prevent you from being stun unless you fight elite NPCs, right? If anything you said above is correct, then the problem is not mist form, it is a bug that was not intended. Why are trying to nerf something that is unrelated to the main problem? It does not make sense to me wuy are you trying to do that instead of toppling the main problem. Beside, why is this an problem to begin with? Hard content and people found a way to work around it, and I'm sure you did too because if you didn't, you woildn't be so specific about the details of what and where is work. Just let others breath and enjoy the game.5 -
WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is OP, but the core issue lies in why people in trials, especially Rockgrove, use it: the outgoing damage of bosses and adds. ZOS is going to have to adjust boss damage in order for Bloodmist to be nerfed or dropped. If Bloodmist is nerfed but things like the boss’s high damage basic attack or random mechanic that does the entirety of a dps’s or healer’s health isn’t altered, things like RG HM are just going to be out of question for way more people.Edited by WuffyCerulei on August 20, 2021 6:55AMFor the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR7 -
UntilValhalla13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would love to see these people tank the second boss in Rockgrove hard mode to show everyone how it's supposed to go. They won't though.
Edit: I forgot the snake boss is technically a boss (I guess), so the third boss then.Edited by UntilValhalla13 on August 20, 2021 7:41AM1 -
vms11934✭✭✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »Just leave it alone. Without Mist Form I don't think there is any use at all for Vampire (besides running around invis, which alone isn't worth the cost of being rank 4).
I made my vamp tank recently and I didn't use some popular build or anything (didn't even know it is popular). I came up with the ideas for the build myself. Unless it gets to a point where everyone has to be a vamp tank to succeed (which doesn't seem to be the case), just let it be. Nerfs just kill originality and end up with everyone basically being the same, if not the exact same.
That’s the thing you do have to be vamp to get though one of the vRG hard modes. All the cool kids are doing it because they have to, not because they want to. The content is overturned and because people found this one workaround they are applying that same workaround to other content. If only there was a PTS where these things could be tested before they are released…
Seems silly to nerf a skill (and in effect, an entire skill line) for the specific mode of one dungeon (vRG). Adjusting vRG seems the more reasonable request.2 -
Styxius✭✭✭✭Artemiisia wrote: »guessing you got all the achievements from doing this, and now you want it gone so others has to struggle in another way
Not true, still working on vrg HM, planes breaker, and godslayer. The issue isn't that mistform mitigates damage. The issue I am highlighting is that it makes you AVOID damage completely. Not take reduced. You take nothing. It feels insulting to me as a tank how much content it trivializes and removes skill to survive by just pressing mist and sitting there.0 -
Styxius✭✭✭✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »Just leave it alone. Without Mist Form I don't think there is any use at all for Vampire (besides running around invis, which alone isn't worth the cost of being rank 4).
I made my vamp tank recently and I didn't use some popular build or anything (didn't even know it is popular). I came up with the ideas for the build myself. Unless it gets to a point where everyone has to be a vamp tank to succeed (which doesn't seem to be the case), just let it be. Nerfs just kill originality and end up with everyone basically being the same, if not the exact same.
That’s the thing you do have to be vamp to get though one of the vRG hard modes. All the cool kids are doing it because they have to, not because they want to. The content is overturned and because people found this one workaround they are applying that same workaround to other content. If only there was a PTS where these things could be tested before they are released…
Seems silly to nerf a skill (and in effect, an entire skill line) for the specific mode of one dungeon (vRG). Adjusting vRG seems the more reasonable request.
I am not asking them to nerf mist form, more so I am asking that they fix it. Nothing in it's tooltip or function implies it should just be straight up immune to being hit.0 -
Styxius✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »I know @ZOS_RichLambert has made comments on stream about the RockGrove method the community is using was not intended. However, I wanted to bring to light just how overpowered Mistform is right now. Most new content, Kynes, RockGrove, and some older ones like vHoF and vAS most enemies and bosses can't hit you. Not taking reduced damage, just nothing, no-hit register. Kynes especially every single boss on Hardmode can not hit you in Mist Form. Frigid fog doesn't stun you, the bulwarks can knock you out but Vrol can't with his shield bash. It's insanely overpowered, Olm's in Asylum can't hit you in mist. In Sunspire's Lokke fight, the lightning beam during the flight phase just passes through you dealing no initial damage, it still leaves the AoE on HM, but does literally nothing on non-HM. Ice Atro's there can't hit you either with a Glacial fist or their AoE stomp. Just wanted to share this as I'm unsure if this is a known factor. Similar to how Stonetalker is giving no cap to stamina return making it give an uncapped stamina potential return as opposed to the mag side having the proper 2,240 cap.
You do understqnd that mist form reduce damage by 75% and prevent you from being stun unless you fight elite NPCs, right? If anything you said above is correct, then the problem is not mist form, it is a bug that was not intended. Why are trying to nerf something that is unrelated to the main problem? It does not make sense to me wuy are you trying to do that instead of toppling the main problem. Beside, why is this an problem to begin with? Hard content and people found a way to work around it, and I'm sure you did too because if you didn't, you woildn't be so specific about the details of what and where is work. Just let others breath and enjoy the game.
I may have been unclear with my intentions on this post. I am wanting to highlight how bugged it is and that is causing it to over perform. I do not think mist should be nerf nerfed, merely fixed as it's current actions are incredibly broke/buggy1 -
vms11934✭✭✭Are you talking about not taking any damage or not being affected by status effects like knockdown, etc? If it's the former, it might be because of damage shields. If you are saying that certain damage attacks simply do no damage to someone in mist form, then sure, that seems like a bug. I cannot say I have noticed this myself, though (but I haven't yet tanked in the circumstances you are referencing). As for being affected by knockdowns and such, it does seem inconsistent to me. Some bosses can knock you out of mist form and some can't. There may be a type that cannot (e.g single target attacks) and a type that can (AoE), but I haven't noticed a consistent pattern yet.0
-
Styxius✭✭✭✭Are you talking about not taking any damage or not being affected by status effects like knockdown, etc? If it's the former, it might be because of damage shields. If you are saying that certain damage attacks simply do no damage to someone in mist form, then sure, that seems like a bug. I cannot say I have noticed this myself, though (but I haven't yet tanked in the circumstances you are referencing). As for being affected by knockdowns and such, it does seem inconsistent to me. Some bosses can knock you out of mist form and some can't. There may be a type that cannot (e.g single target attacks) and a type that can (AoE), but I haven't noticed a consistent pattern yet.
It seems to be an issue more in trials from Sunspire onward. But yeah I am referring to things simply not hitting you at all. Not reduced damage or stun effects as the tooltip suggests at least majority of those shouldn't, but a lot of content it just passes through you doing nothing, not even registering that you were hit at all.0 -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mistform is super strong, but it's balanced by the fact that you're pretty useless while in it. You're not damaging (much), healing, taunting, buffing, debuffing, or anything useful that a team member should be doing. You just become a misty potato causing your team to put up horrifically terrible scores in content. I know not everyone cares about scores, and I can respect that, but no one using Mistform to get titles (outside of vRG) is getting any sort if praise or accolades. I'd just let the potatoes do their thing with it.PC/Xbox NA Mindmender|Swashbuckler Supreme|Planes Breaker|Dawnbringer|Godslayer|Immortal Redeemer|Gryphon Heart|Tick-tock Tormentor|Dro-m'Athra Destroyer|Stormproof|Grand Overlord|Grand Mastercrafter|Master Grappler|Tamriel Hero1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sounds to me more like those encounters you listed need a rework than for Mistform itself to be changed.
Agreed. The mechanic encounters need to be first looked at before looking at anything else. If it's not intended, there's a reason why those mechanics aren't firing on entities in mist form and it's highly probable that they overlooked that bit when they reworked the ability.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »No, Vampires need buffs not nerfs.
^THIS!! There needs to be more bonuses to being a vampire than self-nerfs. Many of the vampire skills are worthless and are over-shadowed by many class abilities, yet being a vampire causes a huge nerf to non-vampire abilities while discounting the worthless vampire abilities. So either buff the vampire abilities to make them more useful or at least AS useful as other abilities, or remove/reduce the non-vamp skill costs.CP: 1965 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****1 -
Skullstachio✭✭✭✭✭I wonder how this would work out for VMA and VVH.If you see me anywhere. Know that I am sitting back with a bag of popcorn, watching as ESO burns the goodwill of its player base with practices that only disrespects the players time like it did to me and many others...
If a game does not respect your time, best thing to do is move on from it and find something else.0 -
Styxius✭✭✭✭I think people are missing the issues I'm trying to highlight. I am not calling for nerfs to vampires, I am calling for bug repairs that Rich has already stated he's going to be looking at. I wrote this to help provide examples of game-breaking bugs that this ability is causing, I am not calling for it to be nerfed at all. Simply repaired.0
-
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭I get what you're saying OP. All you're asking for is for the skill to work the way it is supposed to work. There is a pretty big difference between taking 0% damage vs still taking 25% when the original value was 100K.
The problem of devs substituting one shots for creative mechanics to challenge players is a tangentially related issue.
Mistform has always had the advantage of mitigating ground based dots that ignore block, it certainly doesn't need to ignore 100% of damage to be viable.1 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »Just leave it alone. Without Mist Form I don't think there is any use at all for Vampire (besides running around invis, which alone isn't worth the cost of being rank 4).
I made my vamp tank recently and I didn't use some popular build or anything (didn't even know it is popular). I came up with the ideas for the build myself. Unless it gets to a point where everyone has to be a vamp tank to succeed (which doesn't seem to be the case), just let it be. Nerfs just kill originality and end up with everyone basically being the same, if not the exact same.
That’s the thing you do have to be vamp to get though one of the vRG hard modes. All the cool kids are doing it because they have to, not because they want to. The content is overturned and because people found this one workaround they are applying that same workaround to other content. If only there was a PTS where these things could be tested before they are released…
It's not just the tanks, a lot of DDs are using it for portals as well.0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭Everest_Lionheart wrote: »Just leave it alone. Without Mist Form I don't think there is any use at all for Vampire (besides running around invis, which alone isn't worth the cost of being rank 4).
I made my vamp tank recently and I didn't use some popular build or anything (didn't even know it is popular). I came up with the ideas for the build myself. Unless it gets to a point where everyone has to be a vamp tank to succeed (which doesn't seem to be the case), just let it be. Nerfs just kill originality and end up with everyone basically being the same, if not the exact same.
That’s the thing you do have to be vamp to get though one of the vRG hard modes. All the cool kids are doing it because they have to, not because they want to. The content is overturned and because people found this one workaround they are applying that same workaround to other content. If only there was a PTS where these things could be tested before they are released…
It's not just the tanks, a lot of DDs are using it for portals as well.
Oh I know all too well. See tons of posts in my discord groups. LF DD vRG HM must have mist form.
No mist form, no HM. That’s what this trial has come to.0
